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Author Topic: !!!!Spring Cleaning!!!!  (Read 4638 times)
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Angela
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« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2008, 01:22:06 AM »

Just stumbled in the topic  grin

True, true. I see many people creating new characters almost daily but most of the characters that gets approved are alternate characters already. The new players that are trying to get in are quite enthusiastic in the beginning but then looses that enthusiasm as the long time of cd approval lengthens.

Right now, the rpg boards are mostly populated by fighters or mages because these types are the characters that will more likely to have fun because of the fighting and stuff.

I agree with the comments above that there should be something that enters the more domestic domain of life. Maybe we can have a market forum? Its like a city but much smaller. Maybe 1-2 inns. There are also market places where players can become merchants or interact with each other just like in TH. There will be shops and stuff where 'hobbies' can be found. It will be a busy market place where there a variety of people: Merchants, thieves, guards. Maybe players can also apply for a job in an inn. At leats now they have a job and know where their money comes from  grin !

Hmmm.. I started day dreaming again....   sry about that   grin
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 04:38:24 AM »

Well, you guys start brainstorming and posting your ideas in the Story Creation forum and we shall go from there.

The Home Threads seem to be going down and most likely being removed.
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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2008, 09:09:28 PM »

The problem is that the Home Threads, while a neat concept in theory, are not good in practice due to one of the main issues that plague most RPers: Activity and direction. Running a home thread is essentially like a mini story, and the creator is essentially a mod. The thread won't have activity if the creator doesn't actively promote it and create activity with it. Few will do this, most prefer to just be players.


Regarding other stuff: One thing I think is a problem, at least compared to older stories in years past, is that there is a huge proliferation of 'city-style' stories. Freeform RP like this is very, very difficult to control and get involved with. As much as I hate the term, 'adventures' tend to be a bit more active because they're more directed, they have a single goal, the players know exactly why their characters are in the story and what they're aiming for, and so on. This allows you to jump directly from plot point to plot point and keep all characters on an equal active footing. Separating into many different location threads means that some players might be alone while others might be full, some only have 2 or 3 people that have no reason to interact with each other, etc. Often times, one person will drop out for awhile, and then the other characters in that particular location can't do anything anymore, so they leave too--adventure stories allow it to continue because the characters are all in the same location and can find activity with other characters even if one or two leave. City-style stories can work when they are few. But when you have multiple city-style stories lying around, with little choice for anything else, people are more likely to sign up for multiple stories in order to get more activity, and when this happens, they're less likely to be as reliable for each individual story (not that I'm one to talk about reliability, I know. ;).

Right now, we have two categories for stories... city-style and adventure-style. Problem is, currently, most of the 'adventure-style' stories have, in fact, been city-style. Only 2 of the stories are truly adventure-style, Twilight and Thalambath's Heart. For players who want a more directed experience, they have very little choice--especially with both of the adventure stories being full. City-style tends to be very... 'tavern/civilian'-ish. I don't know about other people, but for me, personally, sitting around in a stereotypical RP bar chatting and flirting is exceedingly boring, as Luca said, talk is cheap, and there is no dynamic and action to such threads (I don't mean action as in combat action, mind. Just drama and direction in general).

This, combined with the length of time it takes for new players to get their character approved and the general lack of activity due to RL/other entertainment issues, prevents players from getting consistently interested enough to stay (the more time it takes for activity, the less likely a player will keep the incentive to stay. Only when a player is constantly bombarded with fun, active processes will they generally stay, because they don't have the time to think about doing anything else).


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Simonne Miller
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2008, 10:02:01 PM »

Talking about adventure styles though: the problem is that they're full very quickly, in general 8 players make such a story full already, while the city-type adventures can have new players join without much of a problem. Still, you're right, action and drama are a bit harder to achieve in city type games.

The other problem with that is that very soon you only get cliché adventure styles, and they end up being generally the same, and that's not so much fun either...
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2008, 10:15:41 PM »

I have to voice a bit of a correction here...

Witchking's Waters aims to be both a city adventure and a quest adventure - leaning heavily towards a quest adventure. My goal from the very beginning was NOT to engage in a tavern/civilian story (not that there is anything wrong with those) but to actually have a multi-threaded storyline that begins in the city and eventually progresses outside, a forest, the sea and Alvang.

And, with the right kind of direction and imagination, a city story can be just as engaging and action-oriented as any adventure story. There are many places in a city with which to engage in action and progress. The mod simply has to make things happen to engage the player.  Thumb up
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Fox
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2008, 10:32:31 PM »

Talking about adventure styles though: the problem is that they're full very quickly, in general 8 players make such a story full already, while the city-type adventures can have new players join without much of a problem. Still, you're right, action and drama are a bit harder to achieve in city type games.

The other problem with that is that very soon you only get cliché adventure styles, and they end up being generally the same, and that's not so much fun either...

Only if the mod is lacking in creativity. It's no different than, again, the typical chat/flirt situations that tend to go on in city-type stories.

Regarding numbers... if there are only a few stories, then yes, this can be a problem. Generally though, I don't see city-style really getting much higher than that, either. In the distant past, new stories were able to fill in a large amount of new players, though obviously that's not really likely to happen these days to the way the world works (I fully believe Santharia's lax in recent years is because of the development of real life issues and new forms of online entertainment, rather than any fault of the Santharia admin and mod staff at all)


I have to voice a bit of a correction here...

Witchking's Waters aims to be both a city adventure and a quest adventure - leaning heavily towards a quest adventure. My goal from the very beginning was NOT to engage in a tavern/civilian story (not that there is anything wrong with those) but to actually have a multi-threaded storyline that begins in the city and eventually progresses outside, a forest, the sea and Alvang.

I was mainly speaking from general experience in the past. But regarding that, this is commendable if it happens. I don't want to be a naysayer obviously, but unfortunately Santharia has a very bad track rate regarding story progression. Many have elaborate cool ideas that end up never panning out. So I hope you can keep the pace going.

Quote
And, with the right kind of direction and imagination, a city story can be just as engaging and action-oriented as any adventure story. There are many places in a city with which to engage in action and progress. The mod simply has to make things happen to engage the player.  Thumb up

With the right kind of direction, yes. But this is very difficult, especially on the mod, as they're forced to be in many places at once and very often cannot cater to every individual thread or character. Keeping the characters in the same thread and same group insures that the mod can keep easier control over them, as well as allowing characters to continue on themselves even if a mod is absent for sometime. That's less likely in a city story, as, again, if one person out of a two person thread ends up leaving, and the mod is busy with the 5 person thread, the remaining person often gets bored and leaves, too.

As I said, city stories can work, but it's much more difficult to do.
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Sir Ruil Mallister
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« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2008, 02:13:22 AM »

I think the main issue regarding the 'cityscapes' lies in the fact that it's delicate.  In order for progression to really be made, storywise, the mod needs to be fully aware of where the players are taking the story and where the mod wants the story to go.  With this in mind, the story mod needs to be active and (for lack of a better term) bold enough to actively take the road the players are on and mold it to his/her needs without stopping everything the players might be doing at that time.  In a non-GM-directed story, many players would probably be a bit annoyed if the mods started dictating their moves to progress the story.  On the off-hand, however, I've seen a lot of mods get caught up in RL (or whatever else) and be unable to direct the action.  This causes the mod's interaction with the PCs to be lax, which in turn leaves the players on their own to figure out what to do to kill time until the mod returns.

Basically, I think the problem is most mods are not active enough in directing the story for whatever reason, and that leaves the players to their own devices which can kill the fun factor for newcomers.  I know this isn't always the case, as I'm speaking in generality, but I've seen it happen.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 02:13:39 AM by Ruil Mallister » Logged

Luca the Thief
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2008, 02:34:40 AM »

I also think another thing mods need to keep in mind is the fact that they have to tell their players what's going on. Yes, surprise and plot twists are important, but it's just as important to keep your players organized, informed and a part of the process beyond the "Okay, I'm going to post. You roll with what I give you." Personally, when I mod, I try to say "Okay, I want to be at such and such point by next week, do whatever it takes to get there and we'll go from there." I'm not saying that mods should give away their secrets, and if a post with a twist is necessary, then by all means, do so. But it helps keep up activity to have a rough schedule and let people know the plans.

For instance, take The Journey aka, ONNYA (yes I always use ONNYA as an example just because it was an awesome story). Almost everybody involved in the story was a regular in the IRC and this amount of communication made it so much easier to plan, plot and coordinate posts. Khiera, the main mod, would come in, nag us to death to post biting and scratching and then we'd sit and brainstorm about where we wanted to go. While there was no "secret" outcome to the story, it made it monumentally easier for us to put out posts when everybody was informed with what is going on.

In the case of a story like Witchy, however, there are obviously some secretive elements. But there are good things happening in terms of communication, and I think that's really important. When a story starts to lag, it's the mod's responsibility to say "Okay guys, time to pick up your socks, this is where we're going and you have to help us out."
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Sir Ruil Mallister
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2008, 03:32:59 AM »

:agree:
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2008, 06:16:50 AM »

I think a lot of it is also an inexperience in Modding and not thoroughly understanding the responsibilities and the activity required to really make things run smoothly.

You all may notice all these child boards for the stories (maybe). They are for the mods to use for discussion. This will help make communication easier between mods and essentially between mod and player.

A lot of what you are all discussing, isn't things we can always control as an administration, as it is a problem on a personal level with people - not of the board in general.

Yes, the Home Threads were a flop, but they were a test from the get go...nothing solid or carved in stone.
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Insanity is only a perception made by those who have yet to attain its greatness. While those of us who have already stepped inside its bounds find bliss in our utter madness.
Nai'r en'Lina ar'Kaimel
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