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Author Topic: Ceriwyn Alyvor/Korweynite/Traveling Bardess  (Read 7632 times)
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Ceriwyn
Travelling Bardess
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Human, Korweynite


« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2010, 11:22:18 AM »


Goodness! So many comments spread out over so many posts! Let me see if I can collect, organize, and respond to them all.

1. Weaknesses: I took the liberty to inform about my character in this section; I feel many of details are more negative than positive, and therefore they found their way here. As long as the weaknesses, in general, balance strengths, I believe that what's enumerated may require less stringency. I may be incorrect in this assumption, though.

  • Language: I have altered the syntax here in order to assure the emphasis falls in the correct place. I feel her accent is something of a weakness, not merely because it makes her a tad more difficult to understand, but also because it pins her as an outsider.
  • Terrain unfamiliarity: I would like to leave this because it gives insight into her knowledge.
  • Frailty: I actually see her strength as being comparable to most peasants of her gender. She does, after all, need to lift her belongings, including a large herb pouch and a container of medical salves, and of course she is lifting things like horse saddles, which aren't always light. I appreciate the suggestion, though!  :)


2. Personality: In this section, and really in this entire CD, I wanted to give less of my character's internal landscape and more of her external behaviors; they are, after all, the manifestations of her identity. In this way, I have given an accurate portrayal while maintaining a mysterious allure about her (as well as flirting playfully with postmodernism  Roll Eyes).

  • Righteous Thinker: As Ceriwyn is not an idealistically righteous thinker, it would be infelicitous to mention this, I think.
  • Literature: She does not have an affinity for literature so much as a penchant toward song writing. I feel this is already indicated by her profession.


3. Korweynites

  • Elves: I'm not sure why it would be apropos to mention that the Korweynites have love for elves.  Huh? Perhaps I have missed something?
  • Clothing: I haven't mentioned dates--only ages and years--but all in all, Ceriwyn has lived in Santharia about eight years after fleeing a rather dolorous childhood in Nybelmar. I feel it would be a bit strange for her to have not worn through and out-grown her childhood attire, especially given her peripatetic nature. Don't you?  ;) Once they were worn out, and after eight years of living in Santharia, why would she not adopt the local style?


Thank you for taking a close look at this CD and offering your comments. You have certainly put a lot of time and research into your critique! I very much appreciate your perspective. I would be interested in RPing with you in the near future. In which story lines are you engaged?
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2010, 06:30:34 PM »

Hi there Ceriwyn,

Thank you for taking time to respond to our critiques. Could you PLEASE make sure you colour changes for us, to make it easier for us to assist you? You mentioned that you changed some of your CD (in languages), but without identifying it to us through the use of a different colour, it really adds to the workload of those of us who are trying to help you get you the second approval you need to start playing.

Goodness! So many comments spread out over so many posts! Let me see if I can collect, organize, and respond to them all.

There were two commenters, myself and Alexandre. I made one post, Alexandre made 3 or 4 ... hardly 'so many posts', I'd suggest :)

1. Weaknesses: I took the liberty to inform about my character in this section; I feel many of details are more negative than positive, and therefore they found their way here. As long as the weaknesses, in general, balance strengths, I believe that what's enumerated may require less stringency. I may be incorrect in this assumption, though.

  • Language: I have altered the syntax here in order to assure the emphasis falls in the correct place. I feel her accent is something of a weakness, not merely because it makes her a tad more difficult to understand, but also because it pins her as an outsider.
  • Terrain unfamiliarity: I would like to leave this because it gives insight into her knowledge.
  • Frailty: I actually see her strength as being comparable to most peasants of her gender. She does, after all, need to lift her belongings, including a large herb pouch and a container of medical salves, and of course she is lifting things like horse saddles, which aren't always light. I appreciate the suggestion, though!  :)

At the moment, I believe your character is overpowered and that your strengths outweigh your weaknesses. I still have an issue with your Terrain unfamiliarity weakness, in particular.  As it currently stands, I would be unwilling to offer you a second approval. Another CD Mod or Kalina may be willing to do so, but at the moment, to me you aren't balanced. If the fraility doesn't meet your idea of your character, find another one. Maybe you could build the bit about her being an outsider stronger and make that into a weakness?

At the bottom of this post, I'll examine your Strengths and Weaknesses in greater detail from my perspective.

2. Personality: In this section, and really in this entire CD, I wanted to give less of my character's internal landscape and more of her external behaviors; they are, after all, the manifestations of her identity. In this way, I have given an accurate portrayal while maintaining a mysterious allure about her (as well as flirting playfully with postmodernism  Roll Eyes).
Don't forget that a key part of the CD is to make it easily understood by other players and story mods. Not everyone necessarily is interested in or understands post modernism. While it can be fun to show off our knowledge, having a CD that can be understood and enjoyed by most people on the sight is probably even more important. :D Story moderators would be looking at the personality section to see what makes your character tick in order to cater scenes in their story for you. What would your character do if they are put in a certain situation, or if they see something happening? The personality gives us an insight into this sort of stuff.

Quote
  • Righteous Thinker: As Ceriwyn is not an idealistically righteous thinker, it would be infelicitous to mention this, I think.
  • Literature: She does not have an affinity for literature so much as a penchant toward song writing. I feel this is already indicated by her profession.
If they don't match your character concept, then don't include them, and thanks for explaining them. However, a thought from someone who himself is involved somewhat in song writing and performing music ... Isn't the ability to write songs in itself a form of literature? A different form of literature to the Great Books of the Western world, or in the case of Caelereth, the writings of the sages, but still a form of literature? Just something to think about ...

3. Korweynites

  • Elves: I'm not sure why it would be apropos to mention that the Korweynites have love for elves.  Huh? Perhaps I have missed something?

Well, you have indicated that she speaks Styrash, which is the elven language. so that would in a way suggest am infinity for elves. :)

  • Clothing: I haven't mentioned dates--only ages and years--but all in all, Ceriwyn has lived in Santharia about eight years after fleeing a rather dolorous childhood in Nybelmar. I feel it would be a bit strange for her to have not worn through and out-grown her childhood attire, especially given her peripatetic nature. Don't you?  ;) Once they were worn out, and after eight years of living in Santharia, why would she not adopt the local style?

I agree with you on this point ... however, if she were to in some way keep some kind of her Korweynite heritage, that would further enhance the fact that she is not a local, as it were.

Thank you for taking a close look at this CD and offering your comments. You have certainly put a lot of time and research into your critique! I very much appreciate your perspective. I would be interested in RPing with you in the near future. In which story lines are you engaged?

I am in the Kam Kemruhnt and will be in the Banshee's Crest. I am also in some of the Home Sweet Home threads as different characters.

Now, as promised a look at your strengths and weaknesses from my perspective.

Strengths.
Musical ability: A pro with most stringed instruments (including the lute, harp, dulcimer, etc.) and a quick study with most other types of instruments. Beautiful vocals and an experienced song-writer.

So in other words she can do almost anything she wants in terms of musical performance, is a singer and writes songs ... seems a rather big strength

Quick wit and sharp mind: Can talk her way out of most any sticky situation.
Another big strength for her

Knowledge of healing herbs and salves: Through study and experience, has a fair knowledge of medical herbs, and makes money selling herbs and herb salves/potions to medical practitioners in cities.
What do you mean by 'fair' knowledge? Does this come from Nybelmar or Santharia? Have there been times when she sold these with less than worthwhile results? How come does she have this in addition to her bard playing? This isn't something that typically goes hand in hand with being a bard.

Friendly: Inspires trust in others through a caring, concerned nature.
Can you expand on this a bit please? How does it help her?

Fluent in Nybelmarian Styrash; can speak Santharian Styrash with a heavy accent.
Another rather big strength. Once again, how does it help her?

Has a horse/can ride a horse.

Weaknesses.
Fear of fire: Deathly afraid of fire, due to parents dying in a fire that took their wagon when she was 12.
Ok ... so does that mean if she's on the road with companions and they are forced to stay outside for the night and camp under the stars she'll seek to put out the camp fire? Will she sleep away from the fire? Or if she's in a tavern/inn, with a roaring fireplace, how will she respond to it? Just a bit more explanation here would be appreciated

Trusting: she puts herself in places and situations that may be considered unsafe. She trusts in the goodwill of people, which can lead her into potentially dangerous encounters.
So, does this mean that if an area is known for ogres, such as the Rimmerin Ring that she'd go and sleep out there by herself? Does it mean that if there's a disturbance that she'd go and investigate? Does it mean that she'd wander through the back alleys of Ximax or another city in Santharia? Once again, please on what you mean here.

Can only speak Santharian Styrash with a heavy Nybelmarian accent, and does not know Thergerim or any of the less common Santharian languages.
Maybe she also speaks the Tharian language with an accent? Which makes her marked as an outsider as well. Maybe she doesn't always understand common sayings from Santharia. As Alexandre has pointed out, her not knowing the dwarven tongue etc, is not a weakness, please remove it.

Unfamiliar with all Sarvonian lands south of Bardavos and north of Ximax.
Knowledgeable about that large an area is actually a strength, not a weakness. The fact that she comes from Nybelmar [ptemtoa;;u makes the fact that she knows any part of Sarvonia a strength. Maybe she has maps of Santharia that aren't overly accurate, but she doesn't realise it. So she follows the maps and either
1 ends up in the wrong place or
2 ends up in dangerous situations

As your CD currently stands, I feel you are overpowered. I think you have the potential of making it balanced, however ... especially if you do something along the lines of playing up the fact that she is not native to Santharia/Sarvonia and is unused to customs etc there. Maybe the changed climate might have an impact on her health in some way? The business about the maps I suggested or something along those lines. Or maybe she has a yearning/longing for the way things are 'back home'

Having said all of this, I think your CD is an excellent one, and i hope we can get you to a second approval relatively quickly.

Don't forget about colouring any changes you make.

Dek
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 03:11:11 AM by Deklitch Hardin » Logged

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Alexandre Scriabin
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2010, 09:26:12 PM »

I'm 100% behind Dek here, in that your character is overpowered.

Let's tally a list so we can illustrate to you how it is that she is overpowered:

1. She has two familiars. This is quite the strength.

2. She can sing, play music, and write music. This makes her appealing to all kinds of music appreciators.

3. She has something of a basic knowledge of healing with herbs and salves. Frankly, I'm not sure you've realized yet how big of a deal that is. If you will, why don't you imagine just how useful and lucrative this makes your character, in conjunction with her music?

4. Quick wit and sharp mind. While vague (really, it's because it's vague), this can be used to shimmy your character through the tightest of "gaps" unscathed. Basically, you are saying that she thinks comprehensively, has good mental reflexes, and can subsequently avoid "X". I wouldn't say you meant to use it that way, but for all we know right now you very well can just pull this rabbit out of the hat.

Also, we have another issue which I remember bringing up earlier. I realize you had quite a bit to chew on (and I did compose 3-4 posts worth of comments, as my Co-Mod and friend Dek pointed out), so it makes sense that you would have forgotten a thing or two. So, without further ado:

Your traveling sickness is contradicting your ability to ride horses. So, it has to be one or the other, and I really suggest you get rid of the horse. The way I see it, you would still have one cute and fun familiar, and it wouldn't tip the scales so hard or contradict any of her weaknesses as a strength.

Now, on to the issue of her being a Korweynite:

She may be a traveling bard, and estranged from her home for 8 years so far, but she is still a Korweynite. Why is it that she doesn't put any stock in the way she was raised? While it's plausible, there has to be a reason that she is divorced from her culture the way she is.

Thanks for your patience and compliance (and namely the fact that you aren't rolling over dead and do want to be creative, believe me I'm all for it). I hope to see you as well, and am actually not posting anywhere on the RP boards as of right now. However, I will be moderating the Thirsty Herald with a few other folks here, and if you come by the Herald we'll be sure to have some fun together.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:29:43 PM by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 12:41:25 AM »

Gentlemen, while I don't usually come down from my cave for the express purpose of being contrary I will point out that it has not been common practice to ask a character to conform to something as mundane as the clothing section of their tribe entry. Player characters are, as a rule, exceptional (a phrase which here means excepted on occasion from certain strictures and customs). If they were not, everyone would stay home and farm potatoes and nothing would happen.

It would make sense that since Nybelmar is a tropical continent (it is certainly much warmer than mid sarvonia) that a character might shift their wardrope to make allowances for the differences in climate. This is, I think, especially true for a travelling bardess. I will concede the point of people sections and culture however.

That said, Ceriwyn, Alex and Dek are most often of sound reasoning and impeccable judgement when it comes to measuring strengths and weaknesses. I can only recommend that you not argue more than is absolutely neccessary or otherwise antagonise our moderators as they do tend to take offense to that and it could be detrimental to your approval. "They are the gatekeepers, they are holding all the keys."
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 03:14:37 AM »

Good points Valan. I thought I suggested that her clothing being changed to reflect the changed conditions of Santharia would be a good thing ... If inot, I meant to.
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Alexandre Scriabin
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2010, 08:23:14 AM »

You're right Valan (and thanks for creeping out of your cave). It really was a minor issue, the clothing thing. You see, I agree that CD's here are generally the exception amongst their tribes, but I do like to see some reasons why.
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Ceriwyn
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 03:03:44 PM »

I am so sorry to have wasted everyone’s time, but based on the comments I’ve received, I don’t believe this roleplaying forum would be a good fit for me. Valan’s warning, while made with good intention, make me feel discouraged about voicing my concerns or share my opinions, which makes me feel a little uncomfortable. The feedback you all have so generously provided is the reflection of the kind of characters generally accepted and played, and I suppose my preferences are a little different.

Dek, you have provided a number of questions to reflect upon related to Ceriwyn’s personality and strengths/weaknesses. I feel beleaguered to tell you that to almost all of them I have no answer. My character description is more or less a rough adumbration of the character I intend to play, but like a child who has not yet left the womb, I do not know entirely who she will be. She is still nascent, still more ephemeral that corporeal. Only when I begin roleplaying with her, seeing how she develops, will I know for sure who she will be. I suppose it’s an unfortunate Catch-22: I won’t have a solid idea of who she is until I roleplay with her, but won’t be able to roleplay with her until I have a solid idea of who she is.

You have informed me that my character is overpowered. I have never heard of a traveling medicinal herbalist with a quick tongue and a penchant for music being considered overpowered. I don’t mean such a statement to be censorious, but rather a way explaining my perplexity. My character is not extraordinarily strong, quick, agile, or stealthy; she has no skill in knives, swords, maces, daggers, bow and arrow, throwing stars, scythes, whips, fist-fighting, or martial arts; she cannot cast any spells or perform any magic; her knowledge is formidable, but not remarkable; she does not speak any wide range of languages. On the road, if suddenly attacked, she would have no way to defend herself. I consider Ceriwyn to be talented and skilled, but not an exceptional human being. While I am certain you have good reason for believing her so, I do not see her as overpowered.

In the end, while I do not see my character as exceptional, I would like to roleplay with exceptional characters: fighters who are strong and quick and skilled with a sword, magi who can cast powerful magical spells, scholars who know ancient secrets and can speak in many tongues. I would like to roleplay with extraordinary heros and heroines and villains. I would like to be part of an epic story with epic characters. I suppose it’s the romantic in me. To my misfortune, the character development requirements here are not apt to engender these types of characters.

I am certain that you have reasons for your requirements. I can certainly see how, with less stringent rules, people might take advantage of too much freedom. I’m sorry if such circumstances came to pass. You all have been wonderful in looking over my character and giving me constructive feedback. That someone might come along and take advantage of your kindness is unfortunate, to say the least. I want to reiterate how appreciative I am for your time and effort.

I will check back from time to time and peruse the boards in case, for whatever reason, the requirements lighten enough to allow a character like mine to pass. Until then, I bid you all adieu with my most sincere thanks! :)



I’ve cast the outline of her shadow:
Her eyes a brilliant blue reflection
Her body like a lissom willow
With wit in words and indirection.

I know her sweet and dulcet song
Her chiming laugh, her airy sough
her glances distant, sad, and long.
I know these things are not enough.

It pains me that my wily ways
elicits looks of consternation,
that we should gaze upon one face
divided in interpretation.

But you have tenants to forfend,
And friends and players to protect.
This place is sacred you defend,
And for your task I’ve deep respect.

My thanks for all the time you took,
and all the thorough feedback given.
My grave mistakes, please overlook
if trespasses may be forgiven.

A little rest, a little time,
A little light against the rain,
A little song, a little rhyme,
and maybe I’ll be back again.

 heart
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Mathis Mallister
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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 07:53:33 PM »

I can only recommend that you not argue more than is absolutely neccessary or otherwise antagonise our moderators as they do tend to take offense to that and it could be detrimental to your approval. "They are the gatekeepers, they are holding all the keys.

That does sound pretty bad, doesn't it?
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« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2010, 08:54:57 PM »

Yes, yes it does. I really wasn't wanting to put across that kind of impression, and even stressed in one of my posts that I really didn't want to suffocate her creativity. I think it'll warrant something of a discussion amongst the mods.

FYI, this is Alexandre.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 08:56:24 PM by Blood Child » Logged

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Malexia Vendu
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« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2010, 10:48:40 PM »

Hi Ceriwyn, welcome to Santharia.  Pet I am Malexia, one of the other mods around here. I apologize I've not the time to look over your CD. My personal life has taken me away from the site of late.

My fellow mods and members have done an exceptional job trying to help you. Please consider yourself fortunate that you have received the direction and wisdom from many good people here.

I do see your point. You feel we may have been overly critical of your CD. Please understand that we mods are trained to weed out overly powerful characters because we try to keep the RP world as "realistic" as possible. This is not D&D. Strengths and Weaknesses are difficult to properly balance, especially when different mods have different opinions of what makes "balanced".

We don't want you to leave, Ceriwyn. You seem like an intelligent, honest and reasonable person. The mods and admins have opened a discussion on your CD to determine what we can do better and to see how we can keep you around! It is hard to find good RPers nowadays and we won't lose you over minor technicalities in your CD.

Stick around and stay tuned! Pretty please?  :D
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2010, 02:39:30 PM »

I'm sorry Ceriwyn, when I made the following comment in my last post in this thread ...
Good points Valan. I thought I suggested that her clothing being changed to reflect the changed conditions of Santharia would be a good thing ... If inot, I meant to.

I was commenting in reference to the following part of his comments ...
Gentlemen, while I don't usually come down from my cave for the express purpose of being contrary I will point out that it has not been common practice to ask a character to conform to something as mundane as the clothing section of their tribe entry. Player characters are, as a rule, exceptional (a phrase which here means excepted on occasion from certain strictures and customs). If they were not, everyone would stay home and farm potatoes and nothing would happen.

It would make sense that since Nybelmar is a tropical continent (it is certainly much warmer than mid sarvonia) that a character might shift their wardrope to make allowances for the differences in climate. This is, I think, especially true for a travelling bardess. I will concede the point of people sections and culture however.

and not the other paragraph. You are welcome to disagree with any and all parts of my comments should you wish to. Pet

As Malexia says, we don't want you to leave ... if I had gotten to it much earlier (back when Altario gave you his approval) I would have most likely given you a second approval at that point. You are a strong writer and you definitely have the right to express your opinions here and disagree strongly with us.

I'm sorry for the confusion caused.

Dek
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Alexandre Scriabin
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2010, 07:47:25 AM »

I'm on the same boat as well, Ceriwyn. As long as you get rid of the traveling sickness, I'm willing to give you an approval too.
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Ceriwyn
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2010, 11:56:24 AM »

Hello, Ms. Malexia!  Pet So good to make your acquaintance. I'm sorry that personal matters have taken you away (nothing too grim, I hope). I hope I haven't given the impression that I did not consider myself fortunate for having received so much time and attention. I apologize if I seemed ungrateful--that was never my intention. I am profoundly troubled that I failed to make my feelings clear, because I do not want the mods to feel taken advantage of.  Undecided I can assure you that I am very grateful for all the feedback. The mods have been wonderfully thorough.

Thank you, Deklitch. you have restored my confidence in speaking my mind. I am not generally a pugnacious individual, but I do value honest opinions (as long as they are delivered with compassion and consideration, of course ;)), so my fears are ameliorated. Thank you again!

Alexandre, I must admit to being slightly nonplus... again (confusion is my sempiternal state of mind, haha!).   What travel sickness are you referring to? Very confused In another post, you had also made mention to two familiars, but I only have one (just Murmur the horse). Perhaps I have missed something, or there is a bug in the system?

I admit to being a little addled. I meant to be more or less an inconspicuous presence. I hate to extend this troublesome affair, and I hate to seem implacable, but can any assurance be made to try to alleviate the stringency of CD requirements? As I mentioned before, I do very much enjoy RPing with exceptional characters. Although you all seem like a wonderfully amicable group, I believe I should soon begin to evanescence without the presence of such folk to RP with! I don't wish to be an exception, after all, and if such requirements are otherwise inexorable, I wouldn't want you to go through the trouble of approving a character who doesn't align with the board's guidelines--in truth, I don't want to be any more of a burden than I've been already. Do you believe the CD requirements will be a little more lenient in the future?
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2010, 12:14:54 PM »

One thing, which I think was requested before this whole... thing.

I would like to see a little more beef with your Strengths and Weaknesses. Not necessarily changing them, but give them more depth in how they positively or negatively affect your character. It isn't a lot, but something which could benefit you, the Mods, and your fellow players.
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Alexandre Scriabin
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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2010, 12:16:32 PM »

Actually, your concerns about stringency seem a bit misplaced. There are many fantastical CD's on this site, and I happen to be working on one right now. It's just that they are internally consistent and have been tweaked so that they don't propose a problem to story mods in directing a story the way they want it directed (as in, the Mod decides just how persuasive or effective your character is at something depending on how much you convinced him/her of it in your posts, and makes sure you don't dictate the plot line).

Here are some good examples of fantastical characters you would be meeting on these boards:

Drustai, Frost Mage- http://www.santharia.com/adv/index.php?topic=4756.0

Urrrik, Ban-Yuk Ogre- http://www.santharia.com/adv/index.php?topic=6952.0

KaskaChee, Mud Rat Brownie- http://www.santharia.com/adv/index.php?topic=5251.0

Selarna, Coorhem Elf Seductress- http://www.santharia.com/adv/index.php?topic=5534.0

Quote
Alexandre, I must admit to being slightly nonplus... again (confusion is my sempiternal state of mind, haha!).   What travel sickness are you referring to? Very confused In another post, you had also made mention to two familiars, but I only have one (just Murmur the horse). Perhaps I have missed something, or there is a bug in the system?

Hmmm... I hadn't noticed you changing the familiars (or maybe I mistook it for something else and you never had two familiars). So, I take back my comment on the familiars (and alleged travel sickness), and apologize for confusing you. That was my fault and I should have done a better job of commenting.

So, given my mistakes, and how I've finally noticed them, I'm ready to give you your second approval (that is, after you fulfill Kalina's little request, shoot me a PM and I'll give you that approval)!

Have fun RPing with us, my dear!
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Alexandre Scriabin CD
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