* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
Print
Author Topic: Magic Revisions  (Read 12228 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Fox
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 48
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2.349



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: 03 December 2002, 19:11:00 »

Erk... you replied too fast.... *deletes previously written reply that did not finish* ;)

I think the schematic is good....

Rayne, let me add on to it for the Arcane....


D.) ARCANE - For this, I'm not sure if there really would be spheres.... only classes. As much of the magic taught here is relatively secretive... and there aren't that many classes in each.
-Elven Magic(as Arti suggested)
-Draconic (I'm thinking this would better fit here, it is both mysterious and not taught in schools, and is a different style of casting magic, no one knows what it is really.... I'm thinking that all the... say... 'race exclusive' magic 'schools' would go under here)
-Fae Magic
-Seven Brownie Schools of Magic(maybe... they are schools... but are all but race exclusive... and only Brownie Life Magic really fits under Xeua from what I understand... the others are elements... so, it would fit either as a school form here, with the classes being each of the seven, or maybe put the seven schools as a 'school' in the elemental section?)
-Druidic Magic(we forgot about them poor druids, though, like the Brownies, could also fit in elemental... but druidic magic isn't taught in schools...)
-Exastri Magic(maybe take out all the focuses and put them all down as Exastri classes?)


Well, that be my two cents.



Santharia's General Commenter, Magic Guy, and Developer.
Contact at dasson@santharia.com

The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

Logged
Rayne (Alýr)
Dreamress
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 117
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 4.466



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: 03 December 2002, 21:09:00 »

Fae magic? Are we sure that fairies actually exist in Santharia?

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Fox
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 48
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2.349



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: 03 December 2002, 21:14:00 »

Not really... hmm... maybe make it like dragon magic? An unknown but believed concept?

Or maybe call it Void magic, instead?



Santharia's General Commenter, Magic Guy, and Developer.
Contact at dasson@santharia.com

The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

Logged
Rayne (Alýr)
Dreamress
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 117
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 4.466



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: 04 December 2002, 02:12:00 »

I would say Void Magic. ^^' Just to be safe.

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Viresse
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.842



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: 04 December 2002, 03:13:00 »

You know, most of this here magic makes Divine Magic nearly obsolete.
Ah well.
Fine with me.
Who the heck wants to be a Cleric anyway?
Kind of like it that way.


*pokey de Viresse at viresse@santharia.com* - character descriptions moderator
The Santharian Dream - Home sweet Home...

Logged
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: 04 December 2002, 04:21:00 »

Make a concept for Ximaxian mages first, later you might tell if druids are more priests or earth mages or xeua mages. Currently it is unimportant because druids have been elaborated very well at all.

And please zip that clerical magic subcategories. You know what Santerrans do with you when you sell that as clerical magic?
Clerical magic depends on the religion you believe in, thus the "scientifical" approach of Ximax would only cover the theoretical principles the mages guess this magic works.
Anything else is up to the priests and they decide what gods and prayers they believe in. So a mage couldn't tell why it works at all or say what gods exist!

@Vir: Santerrans want to be clerics and in that matter they'll be damn good ones!  It must have some advantages to be narrowminded and fanatic. :)  

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster--
One day I'll be the greatest of all Jedi!!

Logged
Artemis
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 2
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 883



View Profile
...
« Reply #21 on: 04 December 2002, 08:03:00 »

About Fae/Void Magic... I think it could be included... even though no-one is truly sure if they exist the magic has been tested near and around the Void with limited success... so I think it could be kept as Fae Magic...

BLEARGH!

I'm not making myself clear...

What I (think) I mean is that near Aurelin (sp???) there is a firm belief in the Fae, so they would see Fae Magic as a true working system, it is believed and some even study it.. but in other places they are dismissed as myth, and so Fae Magic would not be believed...

That still doesn't make sense.

Hmmmmm... the Void Magic (that Brownies use, right?) and Fae Magic are completely different (so I understood earlier...) ...the Void Magic is used inside the edge of the Void, but based in reality... whilst the Fae Magic is actually inside the Void, used to manipulate the Void into a more solid state etc etc etc...

Anyway... it's up to you. I just think that it would be nice if it was acknowledged somehow.

:D   :D   :D  

Edited by: Artemis at: 12/3/02 2:10:37 pm
Logged
Greybark
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 1.736


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: 04 December 2002, 09:46:00 »

Hi everybody!

I really wanted to avoid posting in this thread....but it seems some clarification is in order.

The Brownie Seven Schools of Magic was first written a very long time ago, long before Ximax or much of anything else was written on the subject of magic in Sorren. It is therefore mainly obsolete. I will re-write it whenever the magic system gets figured out.

The only magic race-specific to Brownies is Life Magic.
This was considered to be one of the seven schools. The other schools are for the mainstream magics.

Conclusion" You really don't need to take the seven schools into consideration in redoing the magic system. You only need to somehow include Life Magic in the new structure. I liked the original description for Life Magic posted in this thread.


Brownie Expert

Logged
Fox
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 48
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2.349



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: 04 December 2002, 13:03:00 »

Artemis - Well... for Fae Magic we can simply say that it is only theoretical, and believed not to exist, like draconic and resonance and such. Void would be a part of it, because it is used in the Void... from what I can understand of it it is magic that is used in the Void to anchor the imaginary things created there to reality.

Koldar - The thing about druids is they are somewhat a combination between both mage and priest.... *shrugs* Bah, another thing that needs revision... druids... :

Greybark - Hi! Ermm... Life magic isn't technically race-specific to the Brownies... I mean.... other races can train in it, though they rarely get any good in it, no?

Anywho, Life is in all senses Xeua, right? Or is it Xeua, but used differently, as in it would be its own school in the Arcane state of magic?

On the other 6 of the 7.... well, they do for now fit into the Arcane state with the current system I believe... it's just a different way of casting magic. If Life doesn't fit into being Xeua, then it would be a separate class/sphere of this school thing. *shrugs* Oh well, if you really think it is necessary, we can remove the seven schools from the revision for now....



Santharia's General Commenter, Magic Guy, and Developer.
Contact at dasson@santharia.com

The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

Logged
Greybark
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 1.736


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: 04 December 2002, 13:05:00 »

Dasson:
Yes, I lost that battle long ago :)
I just wanted to clarify that the Brownies don't have 7 classes of magic of their own.....


Brownie Expert

Logged
Silfer Darkflare
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2.477



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: 04 December 2002, 14:31:00 »

Druids are more mages of soem sort ewho use nature own magic, insteads of the raditional system. They are not priests in any sence.

BTW, these classes- would they still be mage classe,s or sohuld they be spell classes?



Logged

Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: 04 December 2002, 15:44:00 »

Errr... that's the point about druids, they're not developed yet, so better zip them till they are. Otherwise it is only a pain to integrate.
Better leave them out now and find a suitable place when the druidic orders are sufficiently described to make a better call on what they actually are!
Currently there's no sufficient way to tell what kind of magic they use and when Xarl has no problems with it Llian will revamp them together with his Folkenmore religion.

Make it easier for yourself and only cover the basic stuff before getting lost in details like Brownian Life magic or the existance of Fae, I'd say. :)  

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster--
One day I'll be the greatest of all Jedi!!

Logged
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.097



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #27 on: 04 December 2002, 16:58:00 »


Arcane Magic additions, and Clerical Magic in general

Thanx for the very detailed and easy to read overview you posted now, Rayne. This looks much more organized now:)

Ok, I see Dasson has put up a list trying to gather everything which has to do with magic, but doesn't fit somewhere else and put it under the Arcane label. This is fine. We might add Orcish schaman magic here as well for example.

What we should be aware of is that there is no way to interpret magic from a point of view above humans, elves etc. (from an all-knowing perspective), but that we interpret magic always from the Santharian point of view, let's say from the view of a Ximaxian scholar and that certain kinds of magic appear to him as "aracane". An orcish shaman wouldn't care for all that categorization, as he can achieve the same results with his magic, and probably thinks that his magic is the only real way to deal with magic. And I don't know for example if the Santerrans have their own ideas and categorizations of what magic really is.

In the same respect we'll have to see the clerical subcategories, which Koldar wants to remove. I'd say we can keep them, as long as we make clear that this is the Santharian human way of things on how to deal with this kind of magic, and that there is no general "truth" about clerical magic (an orc worshipping an orcish God can cast similar magic than a human priest worshipping Foiros).

One more thing: We'll also have to think on how we'll handle magic for a possible game in Santharian lands concerning different races, and I'd say we have to keep that as simple as possible in order to not get too confusing: I assume it will be possible to play races like human, elf, halfling and dwarf in the game, and that - in case they aren't clerics - you will all learn the typical elemental school magic spells. So the natural way the elves dealing with magic won't be represented 1:1 in the game, you'll learn and will be able to learn a typical level 3 spell at an elven settlement as well as at a human one, I assume. We may find other ways on how you get scrolls etc., but basically this can't be handled any different - or it all gets extremely complicated.

As for clerical spells in a Santharian game: I'd say we have the 12 gods for humans, elves have 12 + 1 (either Avá or Coór, depending on their alignment, the direction they choose to go inthe game) and dwarves have Trumm-Baroll only, though some very powerful earth-bound spells among them.

Also, don't spend any time describing arcane magic now, we're developing elemental school-magic now...


The Elemental School of Wind Magic

Ok, so let's start dealing with Wind Magic... I suggest to also always try to find some example spells for the spell classes, as this should make it all much easier understandable and also hint at where we still need to adjust this and that.

A. Elemental Energy

Elemental Wind

I'd describe Elemental Wind slightly different, more philosophically: "Basic magic of the air (being), air moving by itself (=soul) and air moving non-air (=essence)". You can very well give the elven explanation of wind here, as Elemental Wind should bear the "creation"-thingy in it, the moving, the being. That is also what I would propose for all the elements: To determine the properties they stand for:

Wind = creation, the moving, life
Earth= the standstill, the unmoving, death
Fire = Connection (Earth in direction of Wind, Earth trying to become Wind), something like Nietzsche's "will to power", represented by the flame, the longing, the desire, also lust and aggression as the exaggeration of the lust within the flame
Water = Connection (Wind in direction of Earth, Wind trying to become Earth), the calming down of the undirected energies, the floating, undecided nature

Ok, so now where were we? Yup, Elemental Wind. Would need some typical spells for that class...


Physical Representation of Wind

Motion - Thats' fine with me.

Weather - Hmmm... The term probably isn't the best we can get here. As weather can be more or less everything elemental. I guess we should find a more appropriate  "windy" term for "large physical motion of the powers of nature through wind".

Summoning - I'd say summoning is more fire-based (because summoning means to summon something from another plane of existence, not to simply move it). Teleportation e.g. is not summoning. But I guess teleportation would be a typical wind spell (though we won't allow that in the MUD I'd say). Maybe call it "Transportation"? Hmmm... Have to think on this all in more detail, this isn't easy.

Short general note here as well: Clerics and Elemental Spellcasters can reach more or less the same results, it's only a different way to achieve them, e.g. creating Weather.


Physical Representation of Wind

(more comments tomorrow)


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Rayne (Alýr)
Dreamress
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 117
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 4.466



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: 04 December 2002, 19:44:00 »

Ok, I went through the list and added more clerical stuff since I realized that there were a lot more gods than just the elfish Gods.

I. ELEMENTAL
A. Wind Magic (magic concentrating on the Wind Element)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy - ???
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation - Motion
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation
B. Earth Magic (magic concentrating on the Earth Element)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation
C. Water Magic (magic concentrating on the Water Element)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation
D. Fire Magic (magic concentrating on the Fire Element)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation
E. Xeuá Magic (magic of connecting elements, see the Xeuá Principle) (Considering putting the Seven Brownie Schools of magic in here? Perhaps as different spheres or as one sphere split into more subcategories?)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy (?)
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation (?)
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation (?)
F. Ecuá Magic (magic of breaking links between elements)
1. • Sphere of Elemental Energy (?)
2. • Sphere of Physical Representation (?)
3. • Sphere of Spiritual Representation (?)

II. RAW MAGIC
A. Metamagic
1. • Sphere of Creation
2. • Sphere of Being
3. • Sphere of Destruction
B. Mentalism
1. • Sphere of Aggression
2. • Sphere of Passivity
C. Imbuing
1. • Sphere of Imbuing
D. Draconic
1. • Unknown

III. CLERICAL
A. Elvish Faith
1. • High Gods
a. -- Avá
b. -- Coór
2. • Wind Magic
a. -- Eyasha
b. -- Grothar
c. -- Nehtor
3. • Earth Magic
a. -- Arvins
b. -- Queprur
c. -- Utengor
4. • Water Magic
a. -- Baveras
b. -- Jeyrial
c. -- Seyella
5. • Fire Magic
a. -- Ameros
b. -- Etherus
c. -- Foiros
B. Orc
1. • Gork
2. • Mork
C. R’unor
1. • Gods of the Sky
a. -- R’lia
b. -- Gorgramoth
c. -- W’ri’cańe
2. • Gods of the Ground
a. -- M’rotha
b. -- H’lf’ik
c. -- Yturren
3. • Gods of the Sea
a. -- Vulrath
b. -- Hr’lia
c. -- Murlar
D. Kuglimz
1. • High Gods
a. -- Lier’tyan
b. -- Sur’tyan
E. Aca-Santerran
1. • Creation Gods
a. -- Ferkah
b. -- Fijeru
2. • The Erin
a. -- Brabak, Lord of the Thundering Depths (Water)
b. -- Iwynn The Dewborn (Water)
c. -- Weyroon, the Stormbringer (Water)
d. -- Angus, Lord of the Winds (Wind)
e. -- Rettara, Goddess of Fire (Fire)
f. -- Injeylla, Goddess of the Forests (Earth)
g. -- Thalisien, the Dreamweaver (Silence)
h. -- Mari, the Goddess of the Underworld (Death)

IV. ARCANE
A. Elf Magic
2. Draconic
3.Void Magic (I think we should call it void Magic instead of Fae. Fairies are not believed to exist, but some believe Void Magic to exist.)
D. Life Magic (Brownie Magic)
E. Druid Magic (I’m guessing Ilian will deal with this when he gets back?)
F. Exastri Magic

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Fox
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 48
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2.349



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: 04 December 2002, 19:53:00 »

What we should be aware of is that there is no way to interpret magic from a point of view above humans, elves etc. (from an all-knowing perspective), but that we interpret magic always from the Santharian point of view, let's say from the view of a Ximaxian scholar and that certain kinds of magic appear to him as "aracane". An orcish shaman wouldn't care for all that categorization, as he can achieve the same results with his magic, and probably thinks that his magic is the only real way to deal with magic. And I don't know for example if the Santerrans have their own ideas and categorizations of what magic really is.  Yup, that's what it's meant to be... this is Ximax's standard of the magic system, there list of the various states, schools, spheres, and classes that exist, with the list also containing information on schools/classes that they think might exist, but has yet to be discovered.

Ok, so now where were we? Yup, Elemental Wind. Would need some typical spells for that class... You want them now.... or wait till you're done commenting on the rest of the elements...?

Weather - Hmmm... The term probably isn't the best we can get here. As weather can be more or less everything elemental. I guess we should find a more appropriate "windy" term for "large physical motion of the powers of nature through wind". Hmm... will talk with Rayne and see if we can come up with a better term....

Summoning - I'd say summoning is more fire-based (because summoning means to summon something from another plane of existence, not to simply move it). Teleportation e.g. is not summoning. But I guess teleportation would be a typical wind spell (though we won't allow that in the MUD I'd say). Maybe call it "Transportation"? Hmmm... Have to think on this all in more detail, this isn't easy. Well, you're bonding spirits with the summoned, no? Fire isn't spiritual bonding, only aggressive emotional thoughts. Wind would be spiritual bonding in order to form a 'link' with the creature that one is summoning....

And on the thing of teleportation/transportation... if we do do something of that sort... we'll have to give it some base guidelines to prevent it from being used as the main travel method in Sorren... such as being self-only to prevent large group travel, and taking an extremely long time to cast...




Santharia's General Commenter, Magic Guy, and Developer.
Contact at dasson@santharia.com

The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]

[02 September 2016, 04:06:03]

[02 September 2016, 02:44:27]
Members
Total Members: 1040
Latest: leaftanya12
Stats
Total Posts: 144680
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 55
Online Ever: 226
(06 November 2012, 05:38:23)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 70
Total: 70

Last 10 Shouts:
14 September 2017, 09:40:04
Hello all! It's been a minute since I poked my nose in here. Can't remember if I ever did anything useful.
09 May 2017, 14:17:18
Ah, too bad that internet is so restricted in China, Ferra. Can't be much fun surfing the web that way if Big Brother's watching you... Hope you enjoy your stay nevertheless!
03 May 2017, 17:41:19
Hi, dear Arti and other developers!

This year I am in China and cannot use any Google services including YouTube. For this reason I stopped uploading new Nepris videos. I can also not read any comments there.

It just crossed my mind that this information might be useful to you.

Cheers

F
26 March 2017, 12:48:56
Hello to anyone that might read this. :)
22 December 2016, 02:38:16
Merry Christmas everyone!
29 November 2016, 01:45:48
Hey all!
11 November 2016, 09:19:02
Calling all developers; come help me write the New-Santhala article ^^
15 September 2016, 02:24:10
Still no problems here, Erutan...
14 September 2016, 14:55:28
Still having trouble accessing the RPG side, anyone else? Or is it just me?
27 August 2016, 21:17:33
Short note: We had a bit of downtime Friday/Saturday night due to a server change. Site went online first, message boards took a while longer - now everything should be back to normal.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx