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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #15 on: 24 December 2003, 07:26:00 »

Here's a general illustration I've been working on today as we definitely need more graphical explanations here. I'll also do different Xeuágrams to work out the differences in categorizations within the magic schools and will show the differences between basic Elemental Magic and Xeuá and Ecuá with these Xeuágrams.

Comments on the entry itself will can be expected this evening.


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« Reply #16 on: 24 December 2003, 08:23:00 »

I understand the Xeuagram, however, it does not (without comments form you, Arti) solve our magical problems.


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« Reply #17 on: 24 December 2003, 11:32:00 »

Erm, perhaps this is a silly question and I feel quite stupid asking it, but.. Isn't a Xeua link itself already a manifestation of an Ahm/Soor balance? Do we have to regard each link as an Ahm-connection, or a Soor-connection, and are we thus obliged to maintain a balanced amount of both kinds of connection. As the Xeua entry as it no is also states that Xeua is the MUTUAL realization of Ahm and Soor.

In this way, each link is already balanced in Ahm and Soor (like a atoms are connected through positive and negative), and the whole discussion about the amount of links becomes irrelevant. However, I somehow have the feeling this is all nonsense, but I posted it anyway. Though I realise this troubles the way in which you envisioned Mages making things more Ahm or more Soor. (this could perhaps still be done in a way similar to more positive/negative atoms/ions)

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« Reply #18 on: 24 December 2003, 12:19:00 »

Okeydokey, here we go with detailed comments/additions:

Commenting legend:
yellow = changes
orange = comments
grey = unclear sentences

Xeuá (elvish = "connect") is () believed to be the great elemental force that holds everything together. Cár’áll ("magical energy", "natural astral aura";) is the substance and quality of everything, but it is Xeuá that helps to define true shape and nature, how all the elements react with one another and how they affect an object or person as a whole. Xeuá therefore is often also refered to as the "in-between", the "medium", the "linkage of things" or simply as the "chain" or "key".

(break)

Many - especially the elves - believe that Xeuá itself is the mutual dependence and realization of the two ever-fighting cosmological principles of Ahm ("responding", "passive";) and Soór ("talking", "active";) . This relation is introduced in detail in Chapter II of the famous elven myth, the Cárpa’dosía and has been adapted by the Ximaxian mages to found their system of magical categorization on it.

Human philosophers tend to see Xeuá as the spirit or soul, that which holds together all the elements: Wind, Water, Earth, and Fire. In this way, Xeuá is often also called the “fifth element” or the "element of creation", a transitory element that holds the rest together and gives life and meaning to things that would otherwise have no real life at all. Philosophically spoken, Xeuá represents the category of existence (as defined by Khaelvan III.).

Opposed to Xeuá is the elemental force "Ecuá" (Styrásh for "breaking", "disconnecting";) . Ecuá is interpreted as the "sixth element" or the "element of destruction", which co-exists with Xeuá by the same right.

Degrees
As stated before, Xeuá is the mutual dependence of the two principles of Ahm and Soór, one of which is believed to be passive (receiving) and the other which is thought to be active (speaking). It should be noted, however, that Ahm and Soór aren't completely static principles existing within an entity's cár'áll, but that this "simplification is mainly necessary to define magic and its predictablity" (Khaelvan III., "Treatise on Xeuá", p.4). It is supposed that Ahm and Soór within an object's cár'áll are in fact constantly shifting (elves often refer to this as "breathing";) , though there exist clearly reproducable tendencies towards certain states regarding the conjunction of elements within the cár'áll. Ximaxian Xeuatáns prefer to negelect these objections whatsoever, claiming that the "breathing shifts" of Ahm and Soór do not substantially influence the success of spellcasting.

Xeuá magic targets these connections between elements by changing their state from Ahm to Soór or from Soór to Ahm.

Ahm: The principle of Ahm is that of receiving, or being passive, as humans call it. Through less forceful Xeuá (connections) an element or a relation between certain elements becomes less evident in an object or person. In this way, the qualities of an element or its affinity towards other elements are not as prominent in the physical and spiritual properties of that object/entity. This does not necessarily make an element within a person ‘weak,’ as the elements still reside in the same amount within the cár'áll of an object/entity. It is merely less acted upon; its qualities are not manifested in the object or entity they possess.

Example: A spell targeting a block of ice can make a link between the water and the earth element weaker by changing the active state (Soór) of connection between these two elements to passive (Ahm), resulting in a melting of the object.

Soór: The principle of Soór is that of speaking, or being active, as humans tend to call it. Through more active and forceful Xeuá links, the particular qualities of an element or a relation between certain elements become more evident in an object or person. If elements have many forceful connections, the qualities of an element or its affinity towards another element will be prominently manifested within an object/entity, both physically and spiritually. Though an element may be more prominent, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the element makes up most of a entity's cár’áll, it merely means the links are speaking, or acting forcibly within the cár’áll.

Example: A spell targeting water can make a link between the water and the earth element stronger by changing the passive state (Ahm) of a connection between these two elements to active (Soór), resulting in making the object more solid.

Conservation of Voice: This law relates to the amount of Ahm and Soór links within a cár’áll, more specifically how much “speaking” there will be in a cár’áll. It states “Always will a harmony exist between Ahm and Soór in the form of equality.” This means that there will always be the same amount of Ahm and Soór links in a cár’áll. There will never be a case in which all the links in a person’s cár’áll are all Ahm or all Soór. As soon as one links go from being Ahm to Soór, an opposite link will go from Soór to Ahm. In this manner, all things are balanced.

---

Ok, so much until this point. Before we get to the Types, I'll try to explain some more things trying to answer Silfer's theses:

1. In a car'all, all links are equal. There is no difference between a link in Earth and Wind.
Yup.

2. A link is either Ahm or Soór.
Yup. Or let's say: "can be". Protons can't turn to electrons I assume. A link can have a "positive" or a "negative" state.


3. A Fire mage can manipulate the fire part of any car'all. He can make it bigger, smaller, and also make it more soor/more ahm, thus activating certain properties (E.g. a water mage making ice, he makes the water more Soor)
A fire mage cannot directly change Ahm and Soór. He cannot target a link, and thus not make a link active or passive directly. There are 3 different ways a fire mage can deal with elements to change the cár'áll of an object/entity. I've made the Xeuágrams for the three spheres to make this completely clear:




Xeuá and Ecuá Xeuágrams are still to be made.

So the difference between a water mage making water to ice to a Xeuá mage doing the same is:

Water Mage: Targets water within the cár'áll, intensifies a property of water towards this purpose. This targeting of the property of water will cause changes in the link structure within the cár'áll. Water will then act as some sort of "magnet" towards other elements, which are useful for this property. E.g. in this case water will become the Amar'oun (central piece) and earth will be pulled towards water, working towards solidity.

Xeuá Mage: Targets the link between water and earth directly. He's coming from the other side. And unlike a water mage, a Xeuá mage can not only connect water with other elements, but can do so with all elements. Xeuá mages can make much stronger links as well, cause the link is in the center.

4. A Xeua mage can manipulate ANY car'all part, regardless of element. He can also manipulate it as a whole.
A Xeuá mage cannot do anymore what a water mage can do (e.g. making water to a "magnet"). Targeting an element and targeting a link is completely different. That's why there will be a time in the mage's life when he has to choose if he wants to continue being an archmage or change to a Xeuatán. As a Xeuatán he can become much more powerful, but he'll lose his elemental powers, go into herimitage etc. and learn to understand the new way of spellcasting. It will be a time of hiatus for the mage. The mage will retain a bonus on his element he chose before becoming Xeuatán, but becoming a Xeuatán has a price, which is clearly related to the way spellcasting is done.

5. Xeuá vs. Fire Mage
That's already explained in 3 (see above).

But as Rayne stated: There's a natural balance within the cár'áll of an entity. If you strengthen fire links, you sacrifice water etc. You can only shift priorities. But shifting priorities means other things lose priority.

With Spell Sphere III (creation/Re-creation) an Elemental Mage can add or remove elements to a cár'áll for example, but the harmony of Ahm and Soór needs to realign as well, just as the universe itself has a balance between Ahm (religiously spoken: Avá) and Soór (religiously spoken: coór). Each cár'áll is in balance - not concerning the physical elements, but always concerning the principles of Ahm and Soór.


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« Reply #19 on: 24 December 2003, 13:23:00 »

Aha, my thanks to you, Arti, this clears quite soem thing up. Tio, I thought aobut your idea as well, but then we are simply adding another pocket dimension to this, creating more problems than we solve. IMHO.


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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #20 on: 24 December 2003, 18:06:00 »

Thank you so much, Arti! It may take me a while to make changes: I'll edit this entry when I get back from my Christmas vacation. I really appreciate the detailed comments and additions, though.

EDIT: Ok, what Arti editted is now correct, but concerning the last explanation, I now have some questions:

Quote:
1. In a car'all, all links are equal. There is no difference between a link in Earth and Wind.
Yup.


What is it that keeps a Wind mage from altering Earth? What is it in particular about the cár'áll that maintains that a Wind mage can't manipulate Earth if not for the qualities of the links? I just ned some explanation on that, because I don't understand that part.

Edited by: Rayne Avalotus  at: 1/13/04 4:14
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« Reply #21 on: 15 January 2004, 16:50:00 »

To answer your question, Rayne: Well, the qualities are contained in the specific elements. And as a Wind mage for example only knows how Wind qualities fit together as he has only studied wind (like a key/keyhole principle), this will be something he can connect. Not by knowing how to construct a key and the necessary lock and putting them between two elements (e.g. Wind and Earth) - this would be Xeuá magi, a Xeuá mage builds the locks. A Wind Mage only knows how to make Wind connect properly with other Wind locks, or how to turn a Wind lock (if you imagine the Wind element as a ball with a lock in it), so that an Earth key might fit, serving as an inpure link (indirectly).

Ok, more comments:

I would suggest to describe the Xeuágram a bit (see the basic one at the Magic entry), explaining the general things. Guess this would fit in here quite well, and it shouldn't be too difficult.

Now to the Types:

I would suggest to perhaps find Styrásh words for "intra" (or within) and "inter" (or between), and replace intraxeuá and interxeuá with this words, this would make it look more Santharian:)

Comments on the rest of the text in detail:

Intraxeuá: Intraxeuá deals with Xeuá linking cár’áll of the same element, such as wind with wind or fire with fire. Intraxeuá tends to take on the properties of the elements it links. (This is a tad too unclear for my taste. I would point out that an element has several different properties, and the art of spellcasting consists not only of simply connecting two elements, but also to make a special property predominating. E.g. liquidity in a water connection.) These different qualities are what make it hard for a mage to manipulate two different elements, as the qualities need to be brought into proper conjunction.

• Wind: Wind Xeuá tends to be a bit difficult to control, just because the Xeuá is so willing to change. The active quality of wind and how it is apt for change and movement can sometimes make it difficult to keep a Xeuá link Ahm or Soór. However, many Wind magi have developed the skill to make the Xeuá, no matter the principle it represents, hold.

• Earth: Earth Xeuá takes a lot of effort and technique to change in the first place. While wind will gladly bend and change, speak or receive, as a mage should wish, the Earth Xeuá takes a bit more effort to change. However, unlike volatile wind xeuá, earth will tend to stay where you put it. If you make it soór, it will remain soór for a long while, as with Ahm.

• Water: The element of water is basically the attempt of wind to be more like earth - this is already a central theme in the elven Cárpa'dosía, the myth of the beginnings, and it also applies to the definition of water in respect of Xeuá magic. In this way, the element has characteristics of both Wind and Earth, though its qualities sway, of course, more toward the element of wind. (Well said!) Just tried a while to write it better and failed...:lol The xeuá acts in a similar manner. The water xeuá is easily changed by a caster, like wind, but still requires some force to move, like earth. Obviously, more force is needed to change a water xeuá from Ahm or Soór or vice versa as compared to wind, and the quality has more likelihood to change than as compared to earth. Technique needs to be used in order to keep the quality of the Xeuá (Ahm or Soór), but there is some strength needed to change it.

• Fire: Fire as an element is known as earth in attempt to be like wind. The element, thus, has characteristics of both wind and earth, but tends to be a bit more like earth. This quality transitions in its Xeuá qualities. (Not proper English here...) The Fire xeuá tends to be rather difficult to move or change, but, like Earth, will not so easily move from the quality a mage put it in. The Fire xeuá carries qualities of wind, however, in its inclination to try to change quality (Ahm or Soór) based on the things around it.

Interxeuá: Interxeuá refers to Xeuá between two elements, connecting, for example, wind with fire, or earth with water. These links are some of the most complicated, usually because they are apt to changes in their very quality based on the condition of the cár’áll they connect.


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« Reply #22 on: 10 February 2004, 17:50:00 »

Ok, I made the changes excpet for adding int eh Xeuágram, which I'm more than happy to do. I'm just sort of unsure where I'm suppose to describe it, to be honest, I don't really know what it's representing. Do I just explain the Soór and Ahm links? Or..?

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« Reply #23 on: 11 February 2004, 14:26:00 »

Well, I guess there's enough to describe at the Xeuágram to get a decent paragraph written. Here's the picture again for easier orientation:



- The Xeuágram demonstrates the connections within the Cár'áll (which you can see in the form of a circle).

- Within the circle you can see the single portions (Oún), each Óun being one of the four elements. So you see already a relation of quantity of the Cár'áll (e.g. 3 earth, only 1 fire etc.)

- Then you can describe the Ahm and Soór things which are shown in the Xeuágram with the active and inactive lines. You can also hint at the different ways on how the sphere's are depictued in the Xeuágram (see the 3 sphere drawings I made).

- You can mention that it was invented by the Xeuatán Khaelvan III. (9th century a.S.)

- Finally I've tried to make the central portion a special one as seen on the drawing (Anar'oún). I'd suggest that the Anar'oún is the dominating element and that there's always an Anar'óun and that the success of a spell being cast by elemental mages could depend on the fact if the mage manages to get the Anar'oún in position. If a spell is cast, then the elements within the Cár'áll regroup and if you have a flame for example with 3 ouía fire (ounía = plural of oún) and only 1 water and you want to make the water the dominant one, this will be much more difficult then e.g. increasing the fire. So the casting needs to achieve that the water represents the Anar'oún and that the fire ounía group  around it, being dominated by it.

Guess this would be pretty much what I would suggest in this respect to add to the entry to finally get it done;)  


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« Reply #24 on: 29 February 2004, 08:57:00 »

If you can't finish this one soon, Rayne, I'll do it. Just let me know.


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« Reply #25 on: 03 March 2004, 02:26:00 »

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #26 on: 03 March 2004, 15:15:00 »

Very nice, Rayne:D  There are some typos here and there at the moment in the Xeuágram part, and I think I'll add a few sentences here and there when putting it up, but basically that's it:D

Great work, now we finally have another very important magic related entry up - very helpful!!


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