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Author Topic: Browniin Magic: Brainstorming  (Read 5765 times)
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« on: 13 August 2005, 20:44:00 »

If you haven’t yet read the entry on Browniin magic, please do so! It’s very short and does not take much time to read.

Now, Graybark left us, really, with the very loose outline to work with. We only know that we have seven schools of magic. In the Ximaxian system, we have spheres that help to separate the spells based on how they’re cast (how a mage manipulated car’all). We’re not going to do that for this entry. Why? Because I said so. … Ok, you’re right—that isn’t a good answer. The Brownies and the Seven School exist all the way in Aeruillin, which is pretty far away from Ximax, so it is terribly unlikely they’ll have the same system.

Greybark also mentions in the entry (which you should have read by now) that “The University divides all magic, somewhat arbitrarily, into seven schools…”, with “arbitrarily” being the key word. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the Brownies aren’t too particular about organizing and categorizing spells. More than likely, they’ll organize things just based on what the spell does or what level (levels need to be made up, too) are needed to cast it—and maybe both of these things correspond with one another. For example…

Fire Magic
Spark: Able to cast very low level spells: sparks, brief illumination spells, but is first and foremost taught about the system and the ethics of magic.
Flame: Able to cast small flames, small globes of light, give something warmth, etc.
Blaze: Able to cast well-sized fires easily, create large/bright light, able to make something heat up, boil water quickly, etc.
Inferno: Able to cast large fires, illuminate the night sky and make it seem as though it’s day, warm/heat things with utmost precision and specificity, etc.

The other schools could be likewise broken down: Air magic might be split into Breezes, Winds, Gales, and Storms. Water might be Stream, River, Flood, and Ocean. Of course, we need to discuss all the possible names we could use based on what sort of spells magi would be casting in each. And I've made up names as though there would be four levels. This may also be adjusted; perhaps we want five? or six? Or maybe seven?

The hardest part, I think, will be trying to find the Browniin theory to back all this magic up. I would prefer not to fall on clerical beliefs, because that would simply make things too easy. And it’s also been used for so many other things. That’s something we can discuss, though.

In any case, proposals, questions, suggestions? Let the discussions begin?

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« Reply #1 on: 13 August 2005, 21:00:00 »

Rayne

I shall look into writing up some ideas that I have for the different areas of magic, and a Brownie theory  on how it comes to be, which shouldn't be to hard. hopefully I'll have a nice write up for you and your fellow magic masters to look over by tomorrow, who knows maybe someday I'll become the next Graybark  

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« Reply #2 on: 13 August 2005, 22:46:00 »

Since this is a "Brainstorming" thread, I don't imagine I'll be stepping on Eos' toes if I also contribute my mite of mind-drizzle...

----------------------------------------------------------

Browniin magic could be based on the 'Revised Birnian Philosophy' developed by the famous Brownie Keekoo.  To quote from the Compendium:

Keekoo spent years developing a composite modern Brownie language, a revived world-view that took current Brownie superstitions and gave them the substance of the ancient Birni beliefs in the spirits contained in every natural thing, and a philosophy of life based on a five-element system (Earth, Wood, Fire, Water, Metal).

a)  Yes, the elements have been used and overused as a classification system in the bigfolk world of Caelereth as well.  But if their philosophy is based on the elements, and if most groups of Brownies believe in some sort of spiritual force contained in nature (as ref. the Brownie Beliefs page in the Compendium, then it seems logical that their magical system would use or at least acknowledge natural, elemental forces as a primum mobile...

b)  which could be developed as simply as creating five levels instead of four in the spheres, OR as complex as using mitochlondrian (spelling?) energies to power their spellcraft.  
We've already postulated that because of their miniature size Brownies are able to manipulate even genes (though that old entry will require some major reworking to fit into our stricter medieval vocabulary and concepts) via the intricate and delicate use of their magic.    It's not too great a step to then postulate that they can then use the vitality in any natural (read living or once-living) thing around them to alter specific states of being.   To support this,


c) the Terran theory of Brownian motion (hey, interesting co-incidence there....or perhaps not? :biggrin  ) says that 'minute particles immersed in a fluid move about randomly' - this movement occurs constantly and rapidly, more rapidly the smaller the particle is.    

Since we assume many of the same laws of physics apply to Caelereth as to Terra (excepting magical variants, divine intervention, and peculiarities like how gravity works on a disc...), we may assume 'Brownie-an Motion' for Caelereth! :p   Then

d) the Brownie mages are those who are able to perceive and harness the energy given off by this constant motion - or by other forces emitted from the living body of nature - to affect the areas of wind, fire, earth, metal, and the other schools as previously defined!


OK, there's my three san's worth of rain for the night.... if anything is useful, great!  If not, smile politely, wave, pass round the refreshments, and I shall trundle on back to my gardening in the Herbarium... :D


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« Reply #3 on: 13 August 2005, 23:41:00 »

I'm glad you stared this.  I had thought of doing something like this a few months ago, but couldn't come up with enough ideas.  
Quote:
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the Brownies aren’t too particular about organizing and categorizing spells. More than likely, they’ll organize things just based on what the spell does or what level (levels need to be made up, too) are needed to cast it—and maybe both of these things correspond with one another.

I'll say you got it mostly right.  From what I can recall of the old magic discussions Greybark had with Xarl and the others back when they were still active, the Brownies are more 'practical', while Ximaxian mages focussed more on theory and less on application.  I suppose this means that the Brownie system would be simpler and probably not as scientific as the Ximaxian one, with the focus being on getting results and not how magic works.  Of course, being a secular system, there'd still have to be an explanation, and one which, as you said, does not involve clerical beliefs.  

Here's an idea I came up with some time ago, but never posted because I couldn't figure out enough of the details.  The entries on the Brownie system seems suggest that life magic is the most powerful branch of that system, apparently their equivilent of Ximax's arcschools, or something along those lines.  I also remember reading that life mages do not tire when casting, because  they draw 'lifeforce' from their surroundings.  So, how about we make it that the Brownies use this lifeforce things to power their spells somehow, and that those who do not know life magic would have to use their own lifeforce to cast.  Those who can perform life magic would draw on the lifeforce of other living things to power their spells, and can also manipulate the lifeforce, allowing them to create effects none of the other schools can.  Well, that's all I ever managed to come up with.  You can probably see that it has quite a lot of gaps, and probably changes to be made to it too.  


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« Reply #4 on: 14 August 2005, 00:22:00 »

What could work well in Aeruillin, because it is HOT there! I now assume, that Judys mentioned Browns molecular movement is the source of the Brownie life force. Draining energy from there, would mean, that the movements are slower and the "whatever" cools down till it is refurbished with energy from outside. Which might not be noticed at all with so much abundant energy. But woe betide the brownie who travels to the Icelandcoast!His magic just might not work. wouldn't this be an interesting aspect, to make it dependand on the temperature? :lol  

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« Reply #5 on: 14 August 2005, 00:23:00 »

What about contacting Greybark - perhaps he needs just a kick to come back!

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« Reply #6 on: 14 August 2005, 00:29:00 »

Good idea!  So, anyone knows how to contact him?  


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« Reply #7 on: 14 August 2005, 00:33:00 »

Well, there is an email on his teampage - I could try to contact him this way..no idea, if it is still valid.  

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« Reply #8 on: 14 August 2005, 10:58:00 »

I think it would be best if the Brownie beliefs are incorporated into their magic. Something like they believe that they are able to commune with the spirits of nature and guide them as they cast spells. It would not be clerical, since the brownies know that they are the ones with the power and do not believe that the spirits grant them their magic. An example would be a brownie guiding the spirit of a fire into a fireball. Maybe this could be used along with what Judith suggested about them guiding the life force.

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #9 on: 14 August 2005, 11:01:00 »

I was also thinking about a theory based off the spirits that are said to possess everything. This would, of course, be for theory. I really don't want to make Browniin magic a clerical art. I do like the idea of using the energy from surrounding particles to power magic. Having the power of Browniin magic depend on location would be an interesting twist.

In a way, the Browniin magic system is beginning to form into a structure similar to Ximax, which oun being more synonymous with oun and utilization of the energy from these particles as being more synonymous with xeua.

Life/Wood Magic natural lends itself to being an ‘Archschool,’ though I think, at the highest levels of any of the seven schools, students have to utilize some of the surrounding energy to power their spells instead of just manipulating “spirits.” For example, while depending on nature spirits might help a metal mage find an ore, it wouldn’t help him/her change brass into gold.

I’m not sure if anyone’s heard of Card Captor Sakura, but with all this talk of spirits, I wonder if the brownies don’t have some way of capturing spirits—somehow confining them or leashing them so that they can be used again (though, of course, location plays a big part in if they’d be able to work again).

Talia, have you tried to contact Greybark?  

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« Reply #10 on: 14 August 2005, 15:33:00 »

First my friends I think we should consider that the tribe of brownies that live in the region of the school are not spiritual, but are Agnostic and Atheistic...  

So heres my propsal on a system of magic....

Brownie magic could be based off of  tapping into the  greater planetary motion or energies. Different energies that Memnoor browine of the void discovered and began to master were : Solar energy~Fire magic, Geothermal energy~Earth magic, Tidal/hydro energy~water magic, bio/biomass energy~life magic, matter and antimatter~metal magic, and Electricity~lightning magic.

The Brownie mages perceive, harness, and bend these motions or energies with their will ( mind ). thanks for the idea Judith;)

The reason why I thought about energy and motion is the brownies of Aeolian ( the void ) are Agnostic or Atheistic. So they would not have beliefs in nature spirits. ( which by the way is the bases of Druidic magic)
Being more scientific and magic based I think we should break the level system down into three main main and usable steps. Novice, Apprentice,Master.

Novice Can percieve and has little to no training can sligthly tap into and can slightly bend these energies.

Apprentice Having begun training, they can tap into the harnessed energy and can manipulate and bend the stored or present motion/ energy to higher extent then Novice.

Master Has completed training and has masterd all three aspects of brownie magic. Perceiving, harnessing, and bending/ manipluating motion / energy.

* side note, I do not know if there ever was a brownie chosen, so in my opinoin it does not exist in there system, though the closet thing would be a Energist ( like Archmagi ) somone whos entuned with all schools of brownie magic and entuned with all motion and energy.

Solar energy
Broken down into harnessing the energy of the sun and the energy that all life stores from it. Then bending and manipulating the stored solar energy into fire magic.

Geothermal energy
Broken into the harnessing the spin  of Caelereth and the motion / energy that is created within the planet, next step would be bending and altering the  motion enregy.

Tidal / hydro enrgy
Tapping into the very essences of water and the lunar pull on water, and your own pull on the essences of water, then bending altering process.

Wind / Aero energy
The heating and cooling of the planet is regulated by the wind, tapping into theses flows and motions is the bases of Air magic.

Biomass / Bio energy
the tapping into the energy that all living and once living creatures create and store. (This school should be the hardest to master tapping into )= mostly because its extreme power.

Matter and Antimatter energy
Another more complex harnessing baed on the modcluar levell. Knowing that the process to create different minerals and metals, tapping and altering the very substain of the materials.

Electricity / static energy
Based off the static discharge, and bodies own electrical system. Planetary based by movement of living things and static energy created by the friction of movement.

* personal thought
There could be two more schools, but I feel one more would be great to take alittle bit away from  Lightning magic.... Dimensional / Reality magic.... and the other would be  Mental Magic.

thats my idea for a brownie magic system :wink2  

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« Reply #11 on: 15 August 2005, 09:12:00 »

That is an interesting proposal, but I think it is too scientific. Maybe it would help if you worded it differently. Also, that tribe is agnostic, but you have to take into account that several other tribes are not. A Aohu'o brownie would never describe his magic in that fashion. Maybe different tribes would have different explanations?

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #12 on: 15 August 2005, 21:04:00 »

The perceiving and harnessing of energies is a good idea. (Judith is definitely our resident Genius Muse). I have to agree with Erian that, at least the way you've worded it, it sounds a little bit too technologically advanced. We don't have such things as electricity yet in Caelereth, and we have to respect what is already in place.

Now, in our world of reality, we know that energy is energy--that there are all types, but they are essentially the same (i.e. kinetic, potential, heat, motion--all of these are names for the same thing). When you mention the ability to perceive these energies, do you mean to say that there are different kinds of energy just floating around in the universe? Sort of like car'all, only that they're energy, and there are seven of them instead of just four? Does this mean that solar energy would not provide energy to make a stream flow, or Aero energy would not be able to provide substance for a fire? What is the relationship between these energies? We need to separate them down a little more. It already seems as though you're mixing them a little. Here's a little critique:

Solar energy
Broken down into harnessing the energy of the sun and the energy that all life stores from it (doesn't all life use energy from the sun? We might have some overlap with Life Magic here). Then bending and manipulating the stored solar energy into fire magic.

Geothermal energy
Broken into the harnessing the spin of Caelereth (Caelereth doesn't spin--it's flat) and the motion / energy that is created within the planet, next step would be bending and altering the motion enregy.

Tidal / hydro enrgy
Tapping into the very essences of water and the lunar pull on water (there is no lunar pull. The moon is just a flat disk located in the sort of dome that exist around Caelereth where all our stars and such are), and your own pull on the essences of water, then bending altering process.

Wind / Aero energy
The heating and cooling (sounds like solar energy here. After all, things are cooler during the night [when the sun isn't there] than it is during the day) of the planet is regulated by the wind, tapping into theses flows and motions is the bases of Air magic.

Biomass / Bio energy
the tapping into the energy that all living and once living creatures create and store. (This school should be the hardest to master tapping into )= mostly because its extreme power.

Matter and Antimatter energy (This is pretty complexed--it was pretty complex just 50 years ago Earth time!)
Another more complex harnessing baed on the modcluar levell (molecular? That's a bit too advanced for Santharia!). Knowing that the process to create different minerals and metals, tapping and altering the very substain of the materials.

Electricity / static energy
Based off the static discharge, and bodies own electrical system. Planetary based by movement of living things and static energy created by the friction of movement.


You mention that a Browniin "Archmage," or Energist, is "somone whos entuned with all schools of brownie magic and entuned with all motion and energy." Now, this is possible, but if we choose to allow one Brownie to be affluent in all schools, the schools, even at the hihgest level, have to be much weaker than other types of magic (i.e. Ximaxian, clerical). We have to keep a balance, so that a level 10 Wind mage who has been studying all her life in her art is equal to an Energist who has been doing just the same, but in different schools as opposed to just one. We have to balance things out.

Quote:
There could be two more schools, but I feel one more would be great to take alittle bit away from Lightning magic.... Dimensional / Reality magic.... and the other would be Mental Magic.

Yikes! Dimensional/Reality magic sounds like a little too much, and I would prefer if we can stay within the outline Greybark has already set.

I know these are a lot of things we need to work out, but I think you have some incredible ideas. We just need to sort of straighten things out and see how we can use what you've come up with and what other people have thought up and make it into a theory that makes sense.

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« Reply #13 on: 16 August 2005, 15:52:00 »

Rayne...

Thats very helpful, and giving me ideas to improve upon my system,
Quote:
Sort of like car'all, only that they're energy, and there are seven of them instead of just four?

I think thats a brilliant solution to my biggest problem, I mean if you look at different earth cultures they have had as many as 12 elemental forces. But I think that they cannot exist solo, they need each other to keep a balance, hence one cannot truly function when there is a absences of another. So that would explain why Solar is found in almost all of the others.

As for Matter and Antimatter~~ I scrapped the idea, and I'm thiinkin Alchemy..Unless someone else has a answer.

Quote:
You mention that a Browniin "Archmage," or Energist, is "somone whos entuned with all schools of brownie magic and entuned with all motion and energy." Now, this is possible, but if we choose to allow one Brownie to be affluent in all schools, the schools, even at the hihgest level, have to be much weaker than other types of magic (i.e. Ximaxian, clerical). We have to keep a balance, so that a level 10 Wind mage who has been studying all her life in her art is equal to an Energist who has been doing just the same, but in different schools as opposed to just one. We have to balance things out.


I don't think someone of that level should be allowed to exist, I was using that as a example of I guess a Browniin Chosen. I don't believe it should be playable level.

As for Dimisional / Reality magic that was just to take some of the power away from Lightning magic, its really overpowering force.


The other details I'll work out, and try to have a revised verison in the near future

Hopefully I get some more feed back,  Thanks Rayne and Erian.

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #14 on: 16 August 2005, 23:57:00 »

Keep in mind that the problem with overlap is defining where one mage's powers end and another's begins!

Also, the Chosen were clerical mages who were still limited in what they could do by the God of their faith (i.e. a Chosen of Eyasha couldn't cause huge fires). Just things to keep in mind!

I look foreward to your revised proposals! You seem to have a lot of wonderful ideas, and I'm excited to hear them!

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