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Silfer Darkflare
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« on: 08 November 2005, 12:50:00 »

Magic 101

In the discussion that eventually evolved into a heated debate of caelerethan metaphysics, I posted a few lines about magic, a "short summary". The Bard asked me to expand it a bit and make it availible, so that those who want to understand magic basics don't have to read all the not-so-friendly entries. So, here goes:

Ximaxian magic:

Ximaxian mages believe in the existance of the universal aura, car'all. Car'all consists of ounia (singular: oun), and ounia come in four flavors: fire, wind, water and earth. Any particular car'all typically contains all the kinds of ounia (Exceptions would be too notable to put here, if I can think of any). The ounia are held together by links, Xeua links. Everything has a car'all, and some thus claim that seeing car'all as separate things (this car'all, that car'all) is a simplification. The car'all decides what a given object is, how it behaves, etc. Differences arise from how many of what ounia are there (loosely speaking; it isn't something you can count), and how they are linked.

Sources and entries: Car'all, Xeua principle.

Ximaxian magic is achieved by manipulating the ounia and the links between them. A mage of one element manipulates the ounia of that element, while Xeua and Ecua mages manipulate the links (Xeua and Ecua mages can typically also manipulate the ounia, while elemental mages typically cannot directly manipulate the links). One could also argue that the distinction is artificial, but that won't go here, or we will lose our short summary.

Sources and entries: Schools of magic.

General notes: Ximaxian magic is the secular, scientific study of magic, resting heavily on the things outlined in the first paragraph. Also, this view is very flexible - very few things are impossible per definition of the system. One mage, however, is limited by means - a fire mage cannot extinguish a fire by conjuring up water. However, he can extinquish by manipulating the flame itself. Thus, the mage is not necessarily limited in end.

Clerical magic:

The clerical magic on site is outdated - Talia Sturmwind should be consulted for elaborate information.

Clerics believe in one or more gods, and a clerical mage would believe to have been endowed by power from said god/gods. Thus, a cleric does what he or she would believe their god would approve/want. Sometimes the results are explained trough the cleric being empowered, other times by the god doing it directly.

Clerical magic topic

General notes: This is the religious magic type. As the gods typically are omnipotent, this system has few boundaries as a system - however a single cleric may be sometimes more limited than a ximaxian elemental mage, becuase the cleric's god is limited in what the god affects. Armeros would not be likely to bless you with a good harvest, for instance. The tradeoff is that even a single god is omnipotent in his/her area - thus a cleric would achieve much greater effects at times.

Druidic magic:

It is still in development, but basics have been established. No sources and entries yet, tho. Pikel Thunderstone should be consulted on the subject for more information until entries appear.

Druids believe that everything has an essence. The essence can be likened to car'all, but we shall leave that. An essence is the object on a spiritual level. A change in essence will cause a change in the object, and vica versa. Essences have seven categories, the four elements plus plant, animal and sentient being.

Druidic magic is achieved by the druid merging with something (on the spiritual level, in essence). When this is done, the druid can will the object to change, as it is a "part" of the druid. (This is a simplification. Be careful, my trusting readers!) The to maintain the state of merging, the druid must keep meditating. Thus, druids are "big-effect" mages - for chopping down a tree would be done quicker with an axe, rather than with fire essence manipulation. Thus, druids are also largely unable to do typical battlemagic - quote Pikel: "Druids i have always considered more of an ARTILLERY.....not real good at taking out a single warrior....but if you want a city toppled, a druid is the one to ask" (private conversation)

General notes: Druids are not religious mages in the sense that they call to gods - however, they do not study essence and their own magic as Ximax does, relying instead on personal expirience and mysticism.

Druidic magic topic

Krean magic:

Also still in development, Coren FrozenZephyr should be consulted for more information.

Krean magic rests on the principle of non-linear time. Everything exists at once, and the most probable events exist in "our" reality. Most probable equals most elaborated. Krean mages achieve their effects by replacing one piece of reality with another, less probable, by making it the most probable, causing reality to exchange them (Simplification alert!).

Krean magic topic



This concludes magic 101. Coren, Pikel, whoever else, if you see blunders/things to add, post. Judith, what do you think, not too elaborate?

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 11/9/05 0:25
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #1 on: 09 November 2005, 16:21:00 »

I very much approve the Krean section as it is (thanx for including the simplification alert). Now that I have organized the entry, could you update the link please?

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #2 on: 09 November 2005, 17:27:00 »

Silfer, the Clerical Magic on the site is more than outdated. It will be later a subsection.

What I have so far is found here

I see Clerical Magic working as Ximaxian does -  with the same underlying principles, just that the clerics or the gods use another way (or even the same) to manipulate the ouns or the ca'rall. The priest are surely not aware of what they do.


***********

I think, even the druidic magic could be explained with Ximax means, I fear Corens magic not.

Coren, I read your last proposal - it is a very beautiful concept, but very modern sounding as well. You use principles of quantum physics - I don't know, if it isn't too modern for our world. Would the Greeks have ben able to think like this? Surely it is not in the reach of our middle aged culture in Santharia. Are you sure, your Krean are so far advanced to grasp your own concept? I‘m not sure either, if both principles are able to work in the same world, or if we have two concepts here which are not compatible.
The question is - what do we want?

Don't forget the Brownie magic under construction by Mina

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #3 on: 09 November 2005, 17:21:00 »

Coren: Done.

Talia: This is intended as "what do the respective magical ways think of themselves". Ximax would no doubt explain everything their way, and so would everyone else. Link updated.

The brownies will have to wait - I don't know anythign about their magic yet. Will update myself, same applies to clerical, will read the topic. (Now that I shall be a mentor, I must read up on things, hehe)

As for Coren's magic - IMHO the only big thing is non-linear time, and that idea is old I think. That we see quantum physics reflected in it is because we know about them. But that discussion should go to his topic, not here.

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 11/9/05 0:30
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #4 on: 09 November 2005, 20:49:00 »

Thank you, Sif!  :hug

Yes, not too elaborate, but not patronizing either.  I now understand what car'all is and what ounia are (although I may have gotten both the spelling and grammar wrong)... and having the comparisons of the various systems all together makes it much easier.  As to accuracy... well, yes, you'll have to fight that out with the respective developers.  You could easily add a bit more to each paragraph so that you don't neglect accuracy for the sake of oversimplification.

Muchly appreciative,
the Bard

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Mina
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« Reply #5 on: 10 November 2005, 03:49:00 »

Brownie magic isn't really my personal project.  It just seems that I'm the only person left right now.  I'll try to provide a summary of the ideas I have, but keep in mind that all these may be subject to change if the others reappear and decide to change them.  

Basically, I'm trying not to change Greybark's stuff too much, just what is needed to make them fit into the current incarnation of Caelereth.  There are still the seven elements: Air, Earth, Fire, Lightning, Metal, Water, and Wood (Life).  Life Magic is the most powerful school (inferred from Greybark's stuff), because while the other elements use lifeforce to power their magic (my idea), life magic manipulates lifeforce itself, and life mages may use the lifeforce of other living beings to power their magic (Greybark's stuff).  Brownie magic, at least as practiced in the Seven Schools in Aeruillin, is secular, though according to the original material (haven't gotten around to thinking about this part yet), less theoretically inclined than Ximax.  They seem more interested in figuring out how to get something to happen than how it actually happens.  

Sorry for the rather messy description.  It's about just as messy in my mind.  I haven't really been spending much time on it; my priority is still on Ximaxian magic.  


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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #6 on: 10 November 2005, 13:32:00 »

Starting with an apology to Silfer, I nevertheless post my reply here in fear of its getting lost. If further clarification is needed or there are issues you are not content with please post under Krean magic.

Talia, the non-linear time is a typical far-eastern concept (Hindus do not believe in time traditionally; I think some Chinese sects of Buddhism also fall within this category to some extent). I remember skimming through a Russian author's work who hi-lited these similarities between neo-physics and far-eastern thought (I think it was 'the Tao of Physics' I am not sure though) suggesting that perhaps there is more truth to the whole new-age thought than is credited.

I will 'gloss' these concepts in mythology once I start the actual cosmology entry (for which I have requested your help earlier); but to do so here would have been obscuring the fundementals of a system without reasonable justification.

Are you okay with this line of thought - or?

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"Yes, what does that mean?"
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"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #7 on: 10 November 2005, 13:42:00 »

Well, then what you now have will more be a sticky in the Nybelmar forum (like the modell) than an entry in the compendium?



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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
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