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Author Topic: The true nature of lightning?  (Read 32304 times)
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #120 on: 27 March 2006, 22:58:00 »

Orril, you don't need to mention the will of Ava in your explanation (and I would rather it be called styrá'riás, or natural will--I'm not sure the will of Ava would be correct). The concept has a lot that needs to be fleshed out before it can be incorperated into an entry.

Orril, you have a LONG way to go before you're ready to do this entry. I do think that this entry can wait, but before you even start on it, I want to see a spell entry from you that proves you're ready to take on this project.

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #121 on: 28 March 2006, 11:57:00 »

IMHO that entry can wait - and it does indeed look like a good masterwork idea, and Orril, you do seem to want it. And no, you won't start on it now. (Of course, feel free to accumulate reseacrh and ideas for it and jot down notes and whatnot, but you aren't ready for a big thing with long-winded explanations, trust me) I think I second Rayne - get a good idea of magic first.

On the topic: I have a question to raise: How much of a phenomenon do we have to explain to be satisfied? Is it possible to patch holes by saying "we don't know why X happens" (X == zigzagging)?

I'll try to repost my explanation again, with corrections added and weak points highlighted, then people can say if they are satisfied with it or if it has too many holes.

Oh, I have said it before, and I will say it again: Lightning behaving in a thunderstorm does not have to behave the same in a mage's hands. Static bolt probably won't zigzag much, nor will it go downwards. (IMHO, of course)

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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #122 on: 28 March 2006, 12:08:00 »

I don't think we have to explain everything Silver. As long as the effect is magical, i feel we need to have just about everything covered, since magic is about knowing how stuff is, and then changing that. The natural phenomena don't require a full explanation. In that sense, we can relate to the mideval 'scientists'.. they didn't realy know what lightning was either.

-Words to Worlds-

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"The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #123 on: 28 March 2006, 12:39:00 »

I think we should try to patch all explanations up as best we can. You know me--I like to be thorough, and I think if we work hard and long enough on any issue, we should be able to get it resolved. I'm happy with the explanation that the chatoic quality in fire causes the zigzagging.

When Orril starts working on the explanations, we'll see how many holes we run into.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #124 on: 28 March 2006, 15:32:00 »

Well, i agree to trying to patch all we can patch... but in order to explain the magical lightning we rearranged things never put into detail before... the natural forms doesn't need that much axplanation, mainly because just about no-one in Caelereth will be interrested. It's important _when_ it occurs, and to an extent how it behaves. But as to how it is created the only thing people would be interrested in is magical lightning.

Í am looking forward to see Orril's work on this though... i dont think there will be all that much holes left anyway.

-Words to Worlds-

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Avrah Kehabhra

"The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
so orril miesefer
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« Reply #125 on: 28 March 2006, 15:51:00 »

IMHO the theory don't have more holes that can't be solved with a "we don't know" or "it's imposible to know with our actual technology" or the best one "Cause gods like it" (just joking).

I'm sure that in Middle Age the only think they knew about lightning was that it falled from sky, burned thinks in its way, zigzaged, and that someone that survived to one was a wizard or had pacts with devil.

I think for the moment the explanation is good enough, I'm taking notes and picking ideas, and beware, that every wind spell that I make will serve to me to learn more (and make bigger my pile of notes).

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #126 on: 28 March 2006, 17:37:00 »

Explanation, repost with weak points and corrections. Explanations of weak points in yellow

Fire is earth trying to be wind.

Thus, fire links with wind to achieve that desire.
This is an axiom I invented here, thus it's a weak point.

Lightning is fire + wind + water, where fire + wind are soor links, and wind + water are ahm links. - Rayne

As water is ahm-linked, I will leave it out until it gets to say anything, for simplicity.

Lightning is unstable (it strikes and vanishes, a bolt of lightning does not last).

Therefore, fire + wind is unstable.

In magical terms, this combination is unstable because it is linked by soor, and as fire tries to express all of it's qualities at once, some of the links break, making new ones between wind and water. -Rayne
Mina: Uhm, why would expressing all their qualities simultaneously cause instability?

Because it is unstable, it tries to stabilize.

This process causes fire + wind to lose soor links.

Conservation of voice makes soor links appear between wind and water.

The water, linked to wind, becomes soor as fire loses some of its soor links.

Water desires to be earth.

As fire + wind "fight" and lose links, water becomes the powerful force in the car'all.


The water in the car'all causes it to fall towards earth.

As lightning hits the ground, the wind part of it can free itself because fire links with earth. Why does it? I have been walking around and saying "water won't link so easily with wind, as it wants to be earth". Why would fire link with earth?Thus,

Fire links with earth. (in the ground)

Wind links with wind. (in the air)

Water evaporates.



As for between-clouds, same as above but s/earth/water.
This rests on the assumption that water can be a good-enough substitute for earth. Water in the above would, in absence of earth - too few soor links - go towards a nearer body of water.

Possible reasoning:
Water does not want to link with wind.

Therefore, it will seek other water to move the soor links from wind to water.



General weak points:
Zig-zagging, desire eliciting movement towards and linking with an element.

edit: Ooh, post nr. 1600.

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 3/28/06 0:38
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onyphero
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« Reply #127 on: 29 March 2006, 15:51:00 »

First of all: Congrats, 1600 post isn't easy.

Then, my corrections to weak points:

I think that the first steap to become something is to get close to that something (like me geting clos to all you to learn magic) so fire would link with wind to "learn" the new properties.

Expresing all qualities at once would cause unestability IF it's sudden, if you try to learn maths in one day, sure your head explodes, I mean, nature changes gradually, a sudden change thus is proof of a very unestable situation.

With water is the same as fire, it would search the other element.

I don't have an explanation for fire linking again with earth, this we can say we don't know why (at least we only have one).

For cloud to cloud... I think that dust in the air acumulates in the drops of water, so lightning doesn't goes to the water, but the dust solved in water.

Zig-zag: I think the chaotic nature of fire countered by the stability of water would make a zig-zag.

All this of cource is IMHO.

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so orril miesefer
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« Reply #128 on: 29 March 2006, 19:40:00 »

Hehe, the last post isn't from my sis, I made it in her PC, so Ezboards detected me as she...

People, don't think I will leave this so easy, IMHO we must focus to solve this before anithing else.

PEOPLE, I need knowledge, is lightning going to be Fire->wind-water? Please tell me.

Edited by: so orril miesefer at: 4/4/06 23:01
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #129 on: 06 April 2006, 10:05:00 »

Maybe we could practice a little think we've been discussing in the Oun entry:

Let's say a storm has small "globs" of soor-linked fire oun floating in it that helps create the chaotic state of storms (the choatic winds and such.

Fire has a quality of growth (if you light a fire in a forest, it'll grow as long as it has other fire oun to link to).

I have no problem with your axiom of fire linking to wind. We could say, though, that as soon as many of these fire oun are linked, they turn ahm, supressed by the power of water. I'm going to use what Orril came up with--the upper atmosphere is saturated with fire oun, ahm-linked.

However, when a wind saturated with fire oun runs into this "glob" of soor-linked fire, you get enough fire to overwhelm the water in the car'all and cause the actual lightning--but only for an instant. Wind will naturally prefer links with water, surpressing the fire oun and causing water to have enough links to try to fulfill its goal of linking to earth. This would all happen incredibly quick, which makes sense--it is lightning after all.

This is just a theory, though. There are some holes in there.

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so orril miesefer
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« Reply #130 on: 06 April 2006, 16:14:00 »

Is good, but as you say, there are some holes, like Why there's fire linked in soór?

Wind would prefer to link with water... that gives me an idea about sound....

The zig-zag would be caused by? I would asume that the fire is still linked in soór, or at least keeps some links in soór with wind, so it zig-zags.

 

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What's my magic? is my treasure, What's my god? is my freedom, my law? the strenght and the wind, my mother country is the sky.--- So Orril, Sky Tower apprentice
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