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Author Topic: Ximaxian Levels (and stuff on the Spheres too)  (Read 6155 times)
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Mina
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« on: 28 July 2006, 14:59:22 »

This isn't an entry.  It's just a collection of ideas regarding levels and spheres and stuff that will hopefully become an entry or two one day.  But for now, it's far from being an entry. 

Spheres
First, a little explanation.  I see all Ximaxian magic as being a variation of one of three techniques of manipulating car'all, which are known as the three Spheres.  I've split them up into sub-techniques (which I label with 'a', 'b', and 'c'), essentially general variants of the Sphere.  I'm not sure if Ximax will do this also (and we'd need actual names for them if it does, I think), but I was just doing this to make it more convenient when talking about levels. 
Sphere 1
Sphere 1 causes the element's properties to become more strongly/weakly expressed, by directly strengthening or weakening the xeua links connected to ounia of that element.  The effects are temporary, and last only as long as the mage concentrates on them
It can be split into:
a. Increasing or decreasing the influence of the element as a whole (ie. working with all the properties).  The simplest effect of this would be the apparent conjuring of the physical form of an element, or making the target more like the element. 
b. Increasing or decreasing the influence of only some of the properties.  This can create effects like producing light without heat (ie. Fire is being made to express only the light-producing property, and nothing else). 
c. Introducing properties of other elements (eg. turning water into ice by strengthening Water-Earth links, causing Earth properties to also become more strongly expressed, and thus causing Earth to gain more influence on the water). 

Sphere 2
What we definitely know about Sphere 2 is that it has to do with moving ounia around, and produces semi-permanent effects like fireballs.  Everything else in this section will be my own speculation on how this Sphere works.  First, why can moving ounia around affect the amount of influence an element has on the car'all?  I'm thinking perhaps the strength of a xeua link tends to vary according to the proximity of the two ounia it is linking.  Moving two ounia together will thus have a good possibility of causing the link between the two ounia to become stronger, though it is by no means a certainty.  Moving them apart will likewise tend to cause the link to weaken. 
It can be split into:
a. Converging ounia around a point, or small area, producing effects like fireballs, or, conversely, scattering ounia to reduce influence. 
b. Moving ounia around such that the influence of another element is increased as well, a little like 1c, but more permanent.   
c. Moving ounia around so that the car'all as a whole is more strongly influenced by the element.  Note that I said the car'all 'as a whole', and not just part of it. 

Sphere 3
This deals with, essentially, breaking and forming of links.  It comes very close to being like xeua and ecua, but I'm fine with that, since magi only go on to one of the archschools after gaining some proficiency in Sphere 3, and having similarities to the archschools seem to tie in pretty well with that.  This is by far the most powerful sphere, since it can be used to cast what are essentially augmented forms of Sphere 1 and 2 spells as well. 
It can be split into:
a. Adding (or removing) of ounia.  Pretty self-explanatory, I think.  It can be used together with Sphere 1 or 2, to cast augmented/weakened versions of the spells of those Spheres, as well as with part 3b. 
b. Directly and permanently altering the strength of the xeua links within the car'all (can be thought of as removing the ounia from the car'all and putting them in again in a different arrangement).  This allows effectively permanent versions of Sphere 1 and 2 spells, in other words, creating elemental enchantments.  3a is normally also needed though, in order to produce enchantments of a reasonable strength. 

Levels
So, here are the levels.  I was hoping to split them up into 4 groups of 3, as someone (Marvin, I think) suggested, but couldn't quite manage it.  Note that the 'Level X' stuff are not what they will actually be called.  They're only there until we come up with some actual titles for them, which I haven't managed to do either.  Hopefully now that there is some definition of whata mage can do at each level, it'll be easier to come up with titles for them. 
1. I think, once they can reliably perform 1a, ie. conjure up the physical form of an element (for Wind, this would mean creating wind in otherwise still air), they can be considered to be at Level 1. 
2. From Level 1 to Level 2, they should be working on improving their casting of 1a, and learning to do 1b.  Once they can reliably perform 1b, they would be considered to have reached Level 2. 
3. Now, I see two possible routes one can take here: learning 1c, or learning 2a.  Learning 2a should take somewhat longer than learning 1c, I suppose, since it's a completely new technique, but either way, once they are sufficiently good at whichever one they end up learning, they should be at Level 3. 

4. Should it be possible for someone to skip 1c completely?  I'm not sure, but I'd rather they can't, so 1c or 2a here.  Once they're done, they're Level 4. 
5. When they're Level 4, they should start to learn how to do 2b, which I think is probably one of the more complicated variants of Sphere 2.  They'd be considered Level 5 once they're done with that. 
6. Then, they'd start learning 2c. When they are proficient with 2c, they are Level 6, and graduate from Ximax. 

7.  Now they start with their postgraduate studies.  I think they should be allowed to choose between 3a and 3b, depending on which they prefer more.  3a will probably be more popular, I think, but 3b allows one to do some completely new stuff.  Level 7 when they master whichever they picked. 
8. 3a or 3b, whichever they didn't learn during Level 6-7.  When they're done, they're Level 8, and gain the option of transferring to xeua or ecua.  They should also know how to use both 3a and 3b together by the time they reach Level 8, I think. 

9 and above: I'm running out of ideas.  By the time they finish Level 8, they should be pretty good with all the Spheres, so I don't see these as being anything more than an indication of how powerful the mage is. 

Others:
-Archmage: Head of one of the Schools.
-Regent: A sort of vice-archmage, I suppose.  I think Xarl had them taking over the archmage-ship if the archmage dies, until a new archmage is selected (who is usually the regent anyway). 
-[formerly 'Level 12']: A term used to refer to very powerful magi of the past, who have achieved greater power than can be indicated with the modern system of levels. 

Regarding Titles:
The titles are sort of like academic ranks, and are what magi will be known by, instead of the videogame-ish 'Level X' we're currently using.  The formal titles, at least, would be in Styrash, which will probably require coining some new Styrash words, but there could perhaps be colloquial versions too, which could be in Tharian. 
« Last Edit: 05 September 2006, 23:13:13 by Mina » Logged

Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #1 on: 28 July 2006, 21:52:14 »

Sphere II:
Quote
b. Moving ounia around so that the car'all as a whole is more strongly influenced by the element.  Note that I said the car'all 'as a whole', and not just part of it.

I can't really think of a way this would be possible.

Quote
c. Not sure, perhaps something to do with increasing the influence of other elements as well, like the Sphere 1 thing?

Well, moving certain ounia away/to one place will influence the amount of other ounia availeble. *thinks* Maybe the mage can move ounia with certain links? Like moving all the Water-Earth linked Earth ounia (or Water ounia) to one freeze a part of the liquid?

IMHO, I wouldn't allow people to skip levels. As I said before, I would consider the levels as what you need to know to advance, like end terms. You can (and most likely will) know some things about things one or two levels above you (since some sphere II spells are under level 4), but to gain a level you need to know x. Exception would probably be sphere III which might be restricted to level 7+.

As for level 9: Maybe let b. be reconfiguring a car'all without adding ounia and c. reconfiguring a car'all with adding ounie?

The last three levels I would consider to be titles rather then skill based.
Level 10: I would give this to the teachers of Ximax
Level 11: Archmage
Level 12: Used to refer to the uber powerful mages of old
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Mina
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« Reply #2 on: 28 July 2006, 22:21:31 »

2b doesn't sound too odd to me.  Basically, you move each oun into a position where it will express its properties most strongly.  It'd have to be quite precise, but not really impossible, I think. 

I wasn't talking about skipping levels entirely, but rather not learning some stuff.  To repeat what I said above, perhaps, in order to get to level 3, you need to either master 1c or 2a.  If they went wih 2a, perhaps they wouldn't learn 1c until much later, like when they are level 5 or something.  Does that make sense?  I mainly suggested this only to explain why Fireball is level 3. 

I don't think it's a good idea to let level 10 be the title for teachers, unless they can hold more than one title.  It seems reasonable to me to let anyone who's graduated and shown the proper aptitude to have a go at teaching in the Academy.  Perhaps it could be the title for the regents instead.  As for your 3c suggestion, well, if they've learnt both 3a and 3b, I'd assume that they can mix both adding ounia and reconfiguring of car'all.   If there's goin to be a 3c, it should be something quite different from 3a and 3b, not a combination of them. 
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« Reply #3 on: 28 July 2006, 22:23:49 »

If level 10 is for teachers then the 'power' level system would not be particularly applicable anymore.

Afterall, some post-graduates at level 6 could be teachers, and there would likely even be students teaching other students as part of a teacher-aid thing who would be even lower than level 6.


If you put any teacher at level 10, then that would bypass the 'general power level' system all together. If that's what you want to do... /shrug

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Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #4 on: 28 July 2006, 22:38:13 »

Well, I meant the teachers in the way universities have professors. Those people are generally the most knowledgable in their studdied areas. So that would only be for people who are already level 9 and have shown they know what they are doing.

As for fireball being level 3: you could start learning sphere II stuff on level 2 or 3, but only master it at level 4.
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« Reply #5 on: 28 July 2006, 22:55:25 »

Possibly.  But what I had in mind was that at each level, you concentrated on learning something new, with anything done with the stuff taught at the lower levels mainly being practice to improve (and retain) proficiency. 

It's possible to have a title for particularly accomplished magi, but I think it makes sense for the regents to have a title reserved for them too. 

Also, how about more levels between 9 and the special titles?  I think, while 8 or 9 is when you finish learning everything, it's not as powerful as a mage can get.  So, these titles would be used solely to indicate how powerful a mage is, like lesser forms of the level 12 thing, that are used commonly for modern magi.  Remember that the levels indicate power as well as knowledge.  If you know how to do something, but aren't powerful enough to, you won't get the title.  Perhaps these titles are not formal ones, but do have some sort of recognition, due to their usefulness. 
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« Reply #6 on: 01 August 2006, 01:17:03 »

Made a couple of minor changes, mainly switching 2b and 2c.  I think the order looks more logical now.  Still hoping I can think up another Sphere 3 sub-technique. 
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« Reply #7 on: 05 August 2006, 22:20:41 »

Quote
Possibly.  But what I had in mind was that at each level, you concentrated on learning something new, with anything done with the stuff taught at the lower levels mainly being practice to improve (and retain) proficiency.
Well, as I said above, maybe:
a. Adding/removing Ounia
b. Reconfiguring Car'all without adding Ounia (eg making a torch permanently non-flammable at the base and having the top give off more heath & warmth)
c. Reconfiguring Car'all with adding Ounia

As for more special titles (only for those that have already reached level 9), maybe level 10 could just be a general level for someone with a special title? And maybe we could move equivalent the title of 'professor' down to level 9 (as they then have fully mastered their craft).
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« Reply #8 on: 05 August 2006, 22:31:03 »

Um, no.  As I said, reconfiguring car'all with the addition of ounia is just combining reconfiguration of car'all with adding of ounia, both of which a mage at level 8 should already know.  Thus, they won't need an additional level to learn that; they should already know how to do it. 
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« Reply #9 on: 05 August 2006, 22:33:43 »

Well, it's not because you can do two things separately that you can do them simultaneously. I wouldn't know what else there is to learn on sphere III.
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« Reply #10 on: 04 December 2006, 07:32:47 »

I was thinking about this some time ago, but forgot to post anything.  Anyway, yes, the best choice might be to have it be the equivilent of a professor or something of that sort.  I'm thinking that in order to reach level 9 a mage will first have to complete rather tough tests concerning their knowledge, skill, and power with their element.  Those who succeed are recognised as having fully mastered the element.  Yeah, some really talented people could perhaps manage it right after reaching level 8, but I don't really see a better solution.  So, this gives 9 normal titles, split into 3 sets (sort of), and 3 more special titles.  Time to start working on the titles...
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« Reply #11 on: 04 December 2006, 12:52:46 »

titles... I can make some in Tharian, then translate to Styrash...

For the other stuff... I find it pretty much what we already have, just extensively explained (or at least I had a very similar idea in my head about the spheres...) This could end as Mina said as an entry...
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« Reply #12 on: 04 December 2006, 13:02:34 »

Well, the idea is to turn this into an update of the levels entry.
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so orril miesefer
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« Reply #13 on: 04 December 2006, 13:39:59 »

Also this explains why a wind mage can create a lightning, by connecting wind to fire, the rest will happen naturally. Yea, I like these explanations, they allow many things that otherwise where imposible.
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« Reply #14 on: 04 December 2006, 18:10:43 »

I was thinking about this some time ago, but forgot to post anything.  Anyway, yes, the best choice might be to have it be the equivilent of a professor or something of that sort.  I'm thinking that in order to reach level 9 a mage will first have to complete rather tough tests concerning their knowledge, skill, and power with their element.  Those who succeed are recognised as having fully mastered the element.  Yeah, some really talented people could perhaps manage it right after reaching level 8, but I don't really see a better solution.  So, this gives 9 normal titles, split into 3 sets (sort of), and 3 more special titles.  Time to start working on the titles...

Well, like I said before, we could have the last three levels as titles for the academy. We already have:
Level 11: Archmage
Level 12: Used to refer to the uber powerful mages of old

Maybe the level 10 one could be the equivalent to professor? Those will be the ones below the archmages after all. I always kinda thought of those of level 7-9 to be much like the assistants RL professors. Level 7-8 would maybe be like those trying to get an doctoral degree have and level 9 could be for those that achieved it. It wouldn't be the exact same thing of course, but along the same lines.
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