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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« on: 17 December 2006, 12:27:36 »

Alright, Ive read through most of the magic entries and i am incredibly confused. Im gonna start helping out around here, so can someone help me with just a basic rundown of the main princiles? I get Carall is the soul and is made up of 4 (5?) elemnts. And i get the basics of the elemnts....
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so orril miesefer
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« Reply #1 on: 17 December 2006, 13:06:21 »

Here goes my way to explain it:

Imagine Cár'áll being a cake, a cake is made of many things right? well in Cár'áll happens the same, you have Earth, Fire, Wind and Water. Not all cakes are the same, that's because some have nuts, some have chocolate some have other things.

That happens in Cár'áll too, all is made of the same basic things, but their quantities and interactions are different from one Cár'áll to other, thus the Cár'áll of a water stream has more water, and has wind with the property of movement active.


When a mage interacts with the Cár'áll, it modify the links, the interactions between elements. There are three ways to change the Cár'áll in Ximaxian Magic; the three spheres.

In sphere 1 you make the ounia express or cancel certain properties, this last a really short time because the ounia will return quickly to the original properties they where expressing by something Rayne called Natural Will.

In sphere 2 you move the ounia inside the Cár'áll, if ounia get closer, a link is formed, if ounia get farther, a link is broken. Properties can be selected here too, if you make wind get closer to Earth inside a stone you will get a crystal because the wind won't make the earth stop being solid, but will express invisibility and transparency in it, making the crystal.

In sphere 3 you add or take ounia from a Cár'áll, and then use Sphere 1 or 2 to determinate the properties these ounia will express, Sphere 3 is useless without the two previous spheres, because it would only make random properties be expressed, you necesarily must direct and align the new added ounia inside the Cár'áll, otherwise you will get random and provably dangerous results.


Now Xeua and Ecua: As I said before, elements interact, these interactions are made with links, Xeua Links. When a link is active, a property will be expressed in it, Elemental mages have a degree of control of which links are created with their element when using sphere 2. Yet, a Xeua mage controls all the links in the elements, and thus is able to cast spells that involve one or more elements expressing properties.
Ecua is weakening the links, but since the Cár'áll must always have the same number of links, it has similar effect like Xeua (ATTENTION: Ecua isn't sure to exsist, provably is just a part of Xeua.)


That is MY interpretation and resume of magic... far easier but surelly with many more mistakes than the version that Coren holds.

Good luck and welcome.
« Last Edit: 18 December 2006, 10:28:12 by so orril miesefer » Logged

What's my magic? is my treasure, What's my god? is my freedom, my law? the strenght and the wind, my mother country is the sky.--- So Orril, Sky Tower apprentice
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« Reply #2 on: 17 December 2006, 14:11:05 »

Not bad, Orril, though you got some important things wrong. I'll try to write something up tomorrow or so. Meanwhile, maybe you could have a look at the guide I wrote, in one of the stickied threads here, if you haven't seen it yet, Nsikigan.
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so orril miesefer
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« Reply #3 on: 18 December 2006, 01:22:35 »

Please point them, I want to learn of my mistakes.  grin
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« Reply #4 on: 18 December 2006, 07:30:27 »

isn't the plural of oun ounia?
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« Reply #5 on: 18 December 2006, 07:59:02 »

Nope.  Contrary to popular belief(mine up until I was enlightened recently by Twen our soon to be Mistress of Magic =P) the word oun does not techincially exist.  Ounia acts as both the singular and plural form of the word.  Oun sorta popped up.  Its more of a slang word.
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« Reply #6 on: 18 December 2006, 09:23:26 »

"Oun is not a word well in reality Ounia is not a word either but ..." ~Flexes tiny digits as the memories of a very angry orc (Marvin) flash through the mages mind.~ "Master Marvin will not be gracious should he ever see you use THAT word in any of your writings." ~Petite fingers still aching from the repetitive writing of "Oun is not a word and I am sorry to have ever used it." she was forced to do for many a long hour~

Ounia do not have definitive quantity, hence there is no singular or plural. You can have some or many ounia but not a finite amount that can be expressed. Therefore you have "an ounia" and "the abundant ounia".
« Last Edit: 18 December 2006, 09:50:23 by Twen Araerwen » Logged

so orril miesefer
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« Reply #7 on: 18 December 2006, 10:25:37 »

*Orril glups thinking of the terrible punishments that Marvin has in his dungeons* Better I correct that... I don't want to see Marvin angry.
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« Reply #8 on: 18 December 2006, 13:48:25 »

"Ounia" isn't a word?  I'm pretty sure it is.  Oun is too, but it's usually quite useless, since, as Twen said, ounia are pretty much uncountable.  It's more of a collective term, like say, "water"; we don't usually give definite quantities when talking about ounia. 

Okay, Nsiki, here goes. 

First of all, car'all isn't the soul.  It's sometimes called 'Aura', but that isn't quite accurate either.  I consider the term untranslatable, though I might be able to explain it somewhat.  Orril tried doing it by analogy, but I'm not sure that sort of explanation really works.  Also, note that Coren (who is possibly the person most knowledgable about magic currently) might have some different ideas concerning car'all; I haven't managed to sort things out with him yet, so I'm not sure. 

Now, IIRC, Coren considers car'all to be a form of energy, while ounia are the smallest units of car'all.  This is similar to light and photons.  That's as far as the similarities go though.  Ounia come in four types: Earth, Fire, Water, and Wind, which corresponds to the four elements.  In fact, they are the four elements, in a way.  I'll discuss more about ounia later.  Each ounia is linked to every other ounia in existence by what are known as Xeuá links.  Most links are so weak as to be negligible, but links between ounia in close proximity tend to be more substantial.  The arrangement of ounia and Xeua links is known as the Structure. 

Before I go on, please note that there is a certain hierarchy to things.  The world, Caelereth, has a car'all, and a Structure.  Everything else within the world has their own car'allia and Structures too, but these are all just part of the car'all and Structure of Caelereth.  Consider a tree.  Now, the tree has a car'all, but part of that car'all is the car'all of one of its leaves, and likewise, the tree's car'all is part of the car'all of a forest, and so on.  The same is true of Structure. 

Here's the part that might cause some conflict.  My opinion is that there are three layers of existence.  Physical and spiritual should require little explanation.  The third is what I've been calling 'auratic', for lack of a better term, in which you have the car'all of things.  So, most things exist only on a physical and auratic level, meaning that they have a physical form and a car'all, but no spirit, while living beings have all three.  Things like ghosts could perhaps be things with spirits and car'allia but no physical form.  Then again, they might not.  In any case, changes happening on the physical or spiritual layers are reflected on the auratic layer, and vice versa, ie. a ball of fire hitting something (a physical occurrance) would also have an auratic equivilent happening at the same time, in this case a fireball car'all impacting and merging with a person's car'all (this is rather simplified, BTW).  Magic is performed by causing changes in the auratic layer, which causes equivilent physical or spiritual effects.  This doesn't necessarily contradict Coren's ideas, but like I said, I don't really know for sure. 

Ounia, as I said, are the smallest units of car'all.  Each one is one of the four elements.  Each elements are associated with certain properties; it could be said an element is just a category of properties.  An example of a property would be motion (in the sense of being in a state of motion), which is a Wind property.  Properties can also be divided into physical and spiritual ones.  Each oun expresses some of its element's properties.  The total strength of the Xeua links connected to the oun determines how strongly the oun expresses those properties.  Magi can select which properties are to be expressed by the ounia of their element.  The hypothetical pure physical form of an element would be made up completely of that element's ounia, each one expressing all its physical properties at the same time.  Pure forms don't exist, of course, though close approximations do, eg. a flame for Fire.  I suppose you could also talk about spiritual forms, but I haven't given them so much thought yet. 

I'm not done yet.  I'm just posting this to make sure it's not lost.  More coming up in the next post. 
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« Reply #9 on: 18 December 2006, 14:57:15 »

Magi perform magic by altering car'all, as mentioned previously.  This is basically an act of willpower.  Magi basically will changes to happen in the car'all.  This is not some innate ability, by the way, but a skill most people can pick up.  It does require quite a bit of focus though, and can be rather mentally tiring. 

The ways in which car'all can be altered can be group into three general techniques, which are known as the three Spheres.  Each Sphere is further divided into two spell classes, one physical and one spiritual.  Each element has their own name for the Spheres and classes, but they are basically the same things applied to different elements.  For each Sphere, I will talk only about increasing the influence of an element, but the reverse could also be done, by basically working in reverse, eg. weakening instead of strengthening links in Sphere One. 

Sphere One is the most basic technique.  It increases the influence of an element by strengthening the links between ounia of that element, causing them to express the properties of their element more strongly.  Unlike what Orril said, this Sphere doesn't have to do with selecting which properties to express.  That's something common to all Spheres.  He is, however, almost right regarding duration.  The effects of this Sphere has to be constantly maintained, ie. the caster is has to be constantly casting the spell.  Once the caster stops casting, the car'all will revert back to its original state, and thus the effects cease. 

Sphere Two has to do with moving ounia around.  Often, what is done is to gather ounia of an element at a certain point, causing the influence of the element to increase greatly at that point.  Why this is so hasn't actually been agreed on by the experts, I think, but my idea is that the closer ounia are, the stronger the Xeua links between them tend to be.  Such a tendency would mean that moving a group of ounia close together will generally cause the Xeua links between them to become strengthened.  The Fireball spell is a classic example of a Sphere Two spell.  Fire ounia is gathered at a point, causing the influence of Fire to become greatly strengthened there.  A ball of fire is then formed (assuming the caster did not choose to only have certain properties expressed; you could choose to express only the property of producing light, for example, creating a flash of light).  What happens after that to cause the fireball to be fired off is not so related to Sphere Two, so I shall skip it.  Sphere Two changes usually do not become undone; the ounia forming the fireball, for example, will end up being shot towards some target, instead of scattering back to their original positions. 

Sphere Three is by far the most advanced of the Spheres.  It directly 'breaks' and 'forms' Xeua links, by which I mean the links are weakened to the point of being negligible, or previously negligible links are strengthened so they have a more substantial effect.  However, only links connected to ounia of the caster's element can be affected, as with the other Spheres.  Often, Sphere Three is used to add ounia to a car'all, by breaking their links with their original car'all and forming links with the target car'all, and moving the ounia.  More ounia equals greater influence from the ounia's element, and thus this can be combined with Sphere One or Sphere Two spells to produce more powerful versions of those spells.  It is also possible to just use Sphere Three to cause significant permanent changes without adding ounia.  This produce what some people might call enchantments.  Combining this with the addition of ounia would of course cause even stronger effects.  Permanent versions of Sphere One effects can also be ahieved this way. 

Xeuá magic and Ecuá magic are the most advanced form of Ximaxian magic, and in Ximax at least, one must first become a rather advanced elemental mage before being allowed to learn Xeua or Ecua magic.  They directly alter Xeua links, much like Sphere Three magic, hence their power.  The difference is that they are not constrained by being only able to affect some links; all links may be targeted regardless of the elements of the ounia they are connected to.  However, from what I now, they are only able to alter the strength of the links on one direction, ie. Xeua magi may only strengthen links, while Ecua magi may only weaken them.  Rayne came up with an idea called "Conservation of Voice", IIRC.  Basically, the idea is that if a Xeua link is strengthened by a certain amount, another Xeua link somewhere is weakened by the same extent, and vice versa.  This means that with great effort, a very good Xeua mage can create Ecua effects, and a very good Ecua mage can cause Xeua effects.  Xeua and Ecua magic used together can completely alter the Structure of something, and can pretty much achieve any effect possible within Ximaxian magic. 

Now, pretty much all I've said concerns only Structure.  There's also been some discussion about Raw Magic, which instead has to do with what is called Form, which, from what I know, is similar to Plato's ideas.  I'm not really familiar with this yet; Coren is the real expert here.  However, it's not very relevant to the development of Ximaxian things at the moment.  I don't think Raw Magic is something the Ximaxians know how to perform.  For them, it is a theoretical thing, though they might use it to explain some phonomenon. 

I think I might also have confused some of the terms Coren introduced, but in general, I think I've already provided more information than you really need. 
« Last Edit: 27 January 2007, 13:21:43 by Mina » Logged

so orril miesefer
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« Reply #10 on: 19 December 2006, 11:08:15 »

Mina, I find this rather easier than what Coren made for newbies, please ask this to be made a permanent post.
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« Reply #11 on: 19 December 2006, 11:17:46 »

So Orril, since this is Nsiki's thread we should let him gather all the information and make a single coherent post.  :)
« Last Edit: 19 December 2006, 11:25:38 by Twen Araerwen » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: 19 December 2006, 11:52:58 »

Hmm...it might be better to read those parts where I talked about altering car'all as altering Structure.  I think that's more accurate, anyway.  I'm just not that familiar with the terminology Coren used yet. 
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« Reply #13 on: 19 December 2006, 13:06:49 »

Not to insult Coren, but someone else is familiar with the terminology he uses? So far Silfer, Rayne, Arti, and maybe Marvin, all of them experts on the topic what proves that Coren is really knowledgeable, but he can't teach it that well... Thorgas, Nsikigan, Twen, What do you think? is Coren post on magic for dummies (as I don't know who called it like that...) really for dummies and newcomers? Or should we work with him so we reach the enlightenment and knowledge to place it in a post for others to read?

I personally would prefer to remake Coren post with easier terminology and provably some analogies that help people understand, I found really good the analogy of Arti, the one of the net and leaves in it, to explain the Spheres.

Again, I don't have a problem with Coren, just with my lack of comprehension and little abstraction (that's why I use so many analogies).
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« Reply #14 on: 19 December 2006, 13:16:02 »

Well apparently I am no longer classified as a mage, but I'll still give my two sense on the matter.  Peresonally, I think Coren is a very good teacher of magic as I have learned alot from his Uris and reading his theories, but I must agree, reading his guide was a bit tedious and I had trouble getting through it.  While I do not suggest completely removing it, maybe making it more "for Dummines" and less for those who already know about magic would make it easier to go through.  Removing extremely techinical terms and some of the depth might help with that.
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