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Author Topic: Magic! Organisation  (Read 11656 times)
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Takór Salenár
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« on: 24 September 2007, 04:35:14 »


First note: Every text I write this way (in italics and slightly coloured) is developer‘s comment, all other is written from the view of Takór Salenár, a high ranked cleric with a lot of background. I‘m going to write all religious entries under his name, Talia surely is not competent in this area.

{Basics about him: Born several hundred years ago in an elven forest he grew up with elven magic (not yet developed). Due to his mixed heritage (half elf, half human) he went, already grown up, to Ximax where he became a high ranked mage. However, during the age of Havoc  around 150 years in the past devoted his life and studies to Ameros and is now one of the  archbishops or maybe the voice (see history thread here}

As said elsewhere, I did not intend to do such a classification or tackle with magic in general, but somehow it evolved out of my effort to get along with religious magic. I don‘t know either, how or if it could be a help to re-arrange the menu.

The main entry (which I want to post soon, need to fix links and do some minor work) was called „Clerical Magic“ while developed, but Mina pointed out to me, that what I had in mind was reaching beyond „clerical“ magic, the magic clerics do. So I renamed it to Divine Magic and even then there are now areas which are disputable if they belong here, so now it is „Religious Magic“ . My intent was, to give most magic which is not secular a home, so that this kind of magic could be better listed and developed. Those kinds which might still not fit in here are  labelled  as well out of organising/historical reasons - e.g. because when the big library was (re-)build these areas where housed in the wing of the Divine Magic and the scholars overlooked them as well.
Btw, I think Religious Magic should be listed in both menus, under Magic and Religion, if that is possible technically.

And yes, I posted in the religious forum because it has to do as much with religion as with magic, to prevent it from getting drowned in spells and because I‘m here more at home.

I struggled quite a bit to find the right  words, some sentences might sound arkward, please help me in this respect or if something could be better explained. It might be sometimes unclear what I mean because I didn‘t find the right expression, please read with this in mind.

Last not least: This is a team project, somebody has to write up the Non-Religious Parts, especially the Secular One.

I was too tired to set all links or to link this thread in itself, maybe I‘ll do it later. There may be mistakes I didn‘t see anymore.

What follows now in the next post is how it COULD look in the site menu.




Done - Thank you! Links set for the main three expressions Secular, Religious and Wild!
« Last Edit: 26 September 2007, 03:57:48 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged
Takór Salenár
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« Reply #1 on: 24 September 2007, 05:17:33 »


    Magic


    Overview (List)[/size]
     what comes in the following posts
    Basic Information [/size]
    (Art‘s general entry:““Magic in the World of Caelereth“ )





    [/list]
    « Last Edit: 17 June 2011, 18:03:56 by Takór Salenár » Logged
    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #2 on: 24 September 2007, 05:23:34 »

    What follows is the first point listed above - Overview(List)




    Magic Overview (List)



    Magic


    Magic is one of the great driving forces in the whole world of Caelereth and one of the most complex issues as well. Here the reader will find an attempt to classify it, to give it structure so that the immense amount of knowledge is better available. Not all will agree with how it is done, but there will always be a controversy if one kind of magic belongs in this category or in another. Borders might not be very clear every time and often historical reasons might have defined where a magical subject found its place.

    Three main categories are established for a long time now, though as pointed out, the borders are not always clear. They are:

    • Secular Magic
    • Religious Magic
      with the subcategories
      • Divine Magic
      • Spirit? Magic

      {need a word for what Mina called ‚equal beings‘, druidic magic and the anchester worship magic might fall under it maybe Fox‘s „Witcher‘s Craft“ as well 
      and





    An elementary essay about magic was written already some time ago by the sage Artimidor Federkiel. It still is the basic information everybody should  seek to read. It‘s title is: “Magic in the World of Caelereth“ Copies can be found in every major library in Santharia.

    some minor changes have to be made concerning the „clerical magic“ and „wild magic“ mentioned if this term will be accepted


    « Last Edit: 25 September 2007, 23:29:39 by Takór Salenár » Logged
    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #3 on: 24 September 2007, 05:34:18 »




    Secular Magic


    Secular Magic relies only on the (human) mind. The person performing it does not need any help which lies outside of himself, any god, any supernatural or other not worldly being. Only his will, his determination to master his own mind regardless how long it might take is needed to be successful.  This does not contradict the fact that some people are more gifted to learn this kind of magic than others who might never succeed. So far following schools are known to the Santharian sholars.


    • Ximaxian Magic

      Here I need a few sentences which say clearly what it defines and what might distinc it from other secular magics - do we have others? Do we have a general entry about it or just the single schools? Those could be listed here, depends on how much we want to pack in this submission. Maybe we do better shorter ones with links. I will only elaborate the Religious Magic. I add now a few placeholders in a different colour.


      - short summary of main entry with link to it and maybe the schools
      - The Seven Schools of Magic
      - [url=http://www.santharia.com/magic/fire_magic.htm]The School of Fire
      Magic[/url]
      ....


      That is not even a proposal, our Ximaxian mages have to bring some order to this themselves


    • Bloodmagic?

       don‘t know, would have to reread it again


    • XYZ Magic:
      XYZ Magic is.....
    • Essays (about various subjects related to ...)
    « Last Edit: 25 September 2007, 23:57:19 by Takór Salenár » Logged
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    « Reply #4 on: 24 September 2007, 05:49:18 »




    Religious Magic



    Religious Magic has two main fields, the Divine Magic
    , pondering with all magic which is related to gods, higher or supernatural beings, to which the worshiper  looks up more or less and the XXX Magic under which all magic falls which interacts with spirits, essences and so on, entities which are more on the level of the person following a certain belief, but may be worshipped in a way nevertheless. (Here often the boundary to Wild Magic is crossed.) These two  main categories are often treated together like in the introductionary essay for Religious Magic, but will be listed separately nevertheless.  An essential characteristic of both is, that thorough education and dedicated practice is needed which may be in some cases the only difference to Wild Magic.

    List of Essays:


    General Introduction (will come soon)


    This essay tries to cover all of the Religious Magic, show what all these magical systems have in common which are listed here and where they differ but can due to its nature only be very general.


    I thought about making an extra category for the continents, but we don‘t have enough that it this would be useful.

    (List of )Divine (Clerical) Magics


    Viarian Magic
    (Southern Sarvonia)(will come soon)

    (Santharian Clerical Magic)
     
    VM covers the Santharian (human) clerical magic, the twelve gods of the Santharian pantheon are worshipped. The main subject of this magic turns around the prayer, the faith in the gods and their benevolence and the doubt interfering with the faith.
    Though some elves are following this path as well, it is mostly a human affair. The name is derived from the Aviaría, the twelve gods of the elven belief, but not many people notice this any more.

    Light- and Shadow-Magic
    (Sarvonia)
    (Santharian „religious“ Magic of the priests of Avá and Co‘or)

    Mostly practised by the elves who worship Avá and in some cases Coór(...elves). Not much is written down yet about practise, rituals or world view, no compendium entry available up to this day. It is often refered to as simple „Elven Magic“ as well.

    Dwarven Clerical Magic
      (Southern Sarvonia) I Name needed, and short explanation where to it heads

    The dwarves of Santharia agree in many points with what the priests of the Twelve think about prayer, faith and the willingness that Urtengor is willing to help. However, they would never enter a disputation with a Ximaxian mage discussing if the praying person has any influence on the outcome - not even through its faith or lacking faith. Bard Judith, our dwarven expert has formulated it like this: „I can pray to TrumBarol that a wall will be removed. If he chooses to grant my request, I am appropriately thankful - but if he doesn't respond, I assume that it was not his will to do so - for me to assume that I can somehow 'harness' or 'manipulate' a god's power, or even simply try to change a god's mind, is really not a Thergerim concept.“

    Judy, what about an entry? Not religion, but the magic the priests use?


    Kuglimz Magic
      (Northern Sarvonia)

    Unfortunately North Sarvonian developers have not yet found the time to describe it.

    Himiko Magic
      (Northern Sarvonia)
    (Wicker Islands)

    Only rumours are known so far about the magical practises of the Himiko, which are heard to be quite different from those of the Santharian brothers and sisters. The only information we have so far can be found in the person‘s entry of Minoki Kiuru. (set link!)


    Magic of the North Sarvonian Orcs
      (Northern Sarvonia)


    (Marvin, HELP)

    ermm



    Aeoliran Magic
    (Aeruillin )
    Most important clerical magic of Aeruillin which is practised all over the whole continent with a few exceptions, the ten gods of the Aeoliran religion are worshipped. (This religion is not tolerant towards other religions.) Main difference to the Santharian Clerical Magic is that here the grace of the gods can be achieved by good deeds, not so much with the faith in them which has major effects on the practise of the Clerical Magic. No essay handed in so far.



    Shadowmancy
      (Cyhalloi)

    The tribe of the Kasumarii have developed an own way to practise Clerical Magic. It centres around the ability of their priests to melt with the shadows. Further information are available in the essay itself  here. Note: This is a historical essay  written from a famous former Ximaxian mage, Rayne Avalutos and therefore describes prayers as clerical „spellcasting“.

    Rayne (or anyone knowledgable) , this entry needs to be updated, the current entry covers only one section, please look here for the template (scroll down).[/orange]


    Krean Magic
    (Nybelmar)

    Many spectacular rumours have found already their way from Nybelmar to Santharia about the astonishing abilities of the priestesses of Ankriss. So far however no serious research has handed in to confirm those stories.

    Blood Magic
      (Nybelmar)

    Many spectacular rumours have found already their way from Nybelmar.... Deci!


    Essays
    (about various subjects related to ...)

    Here I would put entries about e.g. the Twelverns, about Tools of Religious worship like prayer or meditation or Viresses entry about „clerical magic“ which would be partly outdated, but could be explained as „ximaxian view“. (Remember, Takór writes this entry!), basically entries which would make a submission too long or are valid for more than two kinds of religious magic (maybe an essay about praying which compares the viarian and Aeoliran practise.)


    List of XXX Magic



    Druidic Magic
      (mostly Sarvonia)
    Not a typical Clerical Magic, many may say not even XXX Magic, but  in its essence more related to divine or xxx magic than secular magic. There are also historical reasons to list it here. (3) The entry about it is still in the working but will hopefully handed in this year.

    „Witcher‘s Craft“
      (Santharia?) Fox!!!!

    „Iceland‘s Coast Magic“
    (Northern Sarvonia) IF it will turn out this way!
    It is widely known, that the Icetribes on the mainland destest magic and that mages are not welcome there. However their practise of shamanism and what they can achieve with it does well deserve a space here. However, the work about it is still under progress.

    Anchestor Whorship
      (Aeruillin)
    Undisturbed by the Aeoliran priesthood due to their unusual habitat the double tribe of the Djíeaa-Kirrúu worship their ancestors ( though they have no problems to tell outsiders that they belief in the Fae and the Aeoliran religion as well). From this are resulting magical practices unknown so far in Santharia. Unfortunately not enough details are know  to rectify an entry about their practises.

    Essays
    (about various subjects related to ...)



    I surely have missed something, but it can be added here anytime. I know there  are more religions around, but I‘m not aware that there are magical systems described as well. (Hjoria, Tiraelhon). I haven‘t looked through all the religions Koldar described for Nybelmar. If there is something please point me to it and I will integrate it. I have not read Deci‘s new Blood magic,so I can‘t say, where to it belongs.

     I‘m not happy with the main headings . Like List of.. any proposals?


    « Last Edit: 26 September 2007, 03:54:04 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged
    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #5 on: 24 September 2007, 05:51:11 »



    Wild Magic



    As the name suggests, Wild Magic is all the untamed, often dangerous magic which is not constricted by restrictions  clerical or Ximaxian magic are bound to. There might be rules or laws in some cases, but more often not. Here we find the rare, but existing magical outbursts of gifted, untrained children who might once become priests or go to Ximax, but not necessarily so, or there might be a midwife whose abilities are not just lying in the use of her herbs or knowledge how to move an unborn in the mothers womb, the young girl who sees visions, the young man who can „predict“ the weather, the blacksmith who has never been burnt (because, unconsciously, he could control the element of Fire to serve him so effectively).

    Wild Magic is often performed by uneducated (in this respect)  people, or at least they did never get to know all they would need to be as perfect as  their art demands. That may be a cleric who never came past the first stage of his apprentisship or a druid who never truely merged with any essence.

    However, there is a Wild Magic which is just different to all known and established magic. Reseaches are under way to lift a few of these  secrets.


    .........
    « Last Edit: 26 September 2007, 03:55:10 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged
    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #6 on: 25 September 2007, 20:01:13 »

    Please feel free to comment here now. I will integrate proposals above.
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    Bard Judith
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    « Reply #7 on: 25 September 2007, 21:58:13 »

    "XXX Magic" - "Natural Magic"?  "Spirit Magic"?  "Earth Magic"? (I know it has nothing to do with the element, I was thinking of magic that seems to arise from the very substance which supports life)   "Bone-Deep Magic"?  :)

    Fabulous organization and layout which should make life easier for everyone - at least, from the perspective of a magic-less bard who stays away from spellcraft... ;P



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    « Reply #8 on: 26 September 2007, 16:09:23 »

    Spirit magic sounds good.  Natural magic sounds like a good description for druidic magic, and maybe some others too. 

    Other existing forms of secular magic would be Brownie Magic (Memnoor Brownies) and Life Magic (Vale Brownies).  There is secular Elven magic too I think, but it's not developed yet, so I'm not sure it should be mentioned here. 

    I'm not sure if Krean magic is supposed to be religious or secular.  It's done by their priestesses, but the concepts don't seem to have much to do with gods or spirits.  Coren should know though. 

    I don't really know much about North Sarvonian orcs, but I've heard that they practice shamanism, so probably their magic is spirit magic. 

    Umm...one last thing, maybe divine magic shouldn't be called magic (at least in the final entry)?  I'm not sure, but I think it was mentioned that clerics (Santharian ones anyway) do not consider what they do to be magic.  If that's the case, they might consider it offensive to refer to it as magic, so the Compendium probably won't use that term. 
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    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #9 on: 26 September 2007, 16:54:27 »

    Thanks Mina - I forgot  the Brownie magic entirely, how could I! Your other arguments are quite valid as well. Though nowadays educated people may see the similarities and differences between clerical magic and secular magic, but the name would be older and not  contain the word "magic".

    Is their any word which would cover all the religious - non-divine magic?
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    « Reply #10 on: 26 September 2007, 17:09:02 »

    I'm not sure.  But it probably isn't necessary to have a completely accurate name either, I think, as long as there's a clear explanation of what it means. 
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    « Reply #11 on: 26 September 2007, 17:34:28 »

    Just to clear things up on Blood Magic for you....


    Blood Magic is practiced like a science and is something you are almost schooled in. Though it has roots in Zhunite religion (their idea of spirit ECT.) I would consider it almost entirely secular....

    Helpful  grin!

    BTW: Will be drafting up an entry for the Blood Magic system soon, this should help in that area :D

    Decipher
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    « Reply #12 on: 27 September 2007, 01:12:59 »

    Ter'ei'Vikh Spirit Songs can be classified, of course, as Spirit Magic..
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    Avrah Kehabhra

    "The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
    Takór Salenár
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    « Reply #13 on: 27 September 2007, 03:58:47 »

    Thanks for your input! Could you please write a short paragraph about your babies? Something like an overview.
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    « Reply #14 on: 27 September 2007, 06:26:37 »

    Thanks Mina - I forgot  the Brownie magic entirely, how could I! Your other arguments are quite valid as well. Though nowadays educated people may see the similarities and differences between clerical magic and secular magic, but the name would be older and not  contain the word "magic".

    Is their any word which would cover all the religious - non-divine magic?

    Sectarian Magic?

    Natural or Spirit Magic as others have suggested?
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