Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

Bard Judith

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Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« on: 26 December 2007, 22:50:49 »

In designing the city entry and map for Carmalad, I was asked about the 'Count's Manor' - if that was the 'Castle for the King of Caltharia'. I was puzzled and did some reading through entries to figure out what was meant.

Am I right in thinking that Arteros of Carmalad was the 'Last King' of Caltharia?

I'm not great at deciphering the various historical accounts, but it would seem that there are no longer kings of each province but Counts, Gravens, and other lesser titles beneath our main ruler (what WAS his name again, Talia?). So then....

I'd like to propose that the current 'Count's Manor', in the northwest section of the city near the West Gate and surrounded by the vasty tracts of land known as the "Diamond Estates" - held by various nobles loyal to the contemporary count, of course - is built on the ruins of, or incorporates the foundations of, Arteros's birthplace/home castle/seat of power for his forerunner kings of Caltharia. The barracks for the then-'Royal Guard' and the standing army would then have become the armories and barracks - much-reduced - for today's city guard and a small militia.

Historians and military specialists, some comments and help here please?


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #1 on: 27 December 2007, 13:31:50 »

Well, first of all "Arteros" was changed to "Artero" in order to make it fit with the Caltharian naming scheme (which still isn't finished and on site).

Also your assumption doesn't look to be entirely correct, Judy, as Artero was toppled by Mertogran, wo proclaimed himself King and was accepted that way. Artero could however have been the last "regular" king. Who ascended the throne after Mertogran is not mentioned in an entry as far as I know, but there could be further successors (someone had to sign the "Treaty of Veltin"). But as this isn't set in stone yet, it could be that Caltharia never managed to get back on its feet after the demise of Artero and the following Rebel King Mertogran.

I'm not sure what you're talking about however when you write "it would seem that there are no longer kings of each province but Counts, Gravens, and other lesser titles beneath our main ruler". Provinces of Santharia don't have kings anymore, but Thanes, and how the Thanes manage further titles within their territory can vary. Due to the fact that Mertogran was referred to as the "Duke of Cantollio" it is obvious however that Caltharia had duchies.

Caltharia could have suffered from the situation after Mertogran's death and slowly fell apart, with the Dukes "duking it out" lol

Maybe various Dukes proclaimed themselves kings etc., but nothing ever lasted. With two Sarvonian Wars coming in the next 400 years Caltharia might have had serious troubles with leadership.

But as for the manor - that could be handled the way you describe it, Judy. Could be the last "real" king's domain, as Mertogran might have ruled from elsewhere.


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Mina

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #2 on: 27 December 2007, 14:16:35 »

Um, we have counts in Santharia? I thought gravens were supposed to be the equivilent Santharian rank. Though it could work as a regional title, I guess.


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Bard Judith

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #3 on: 27 December 2007, 19:14:37 »

This is why *I* don't write history....

Ok, but my assumption that there is now only one KING is correct. I didn't add the Count in randomly - this is a collation of bits and pieces from a lot of sources, as old entries tend to be - so he can become a Graven or Thane, as you wish, Artimidor...

Which means for my entry that there is no castle in Carmalad, but there IS a local ruler's manor, right? Who is it? What's his name and title?

Wait, hang on... Don't *I* have an old entry (possibly not even on site) about the current provincial-level title holders? THis is the problem with working away from my home computer! }:[


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Mina

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #4 on: 28 December 2007, 00:35:26 »

I think the thane is probably located in Elsreth, since that's the capital. Though whoever rules Carmalad is probably fairly important too, perhaps a duke?


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Trelstahl

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #5 on: 12 January 2008, 22:42:36 »

Hi everyone,

Uggh. sorry

for being away for so long, but RL really took hold again. If its okay, I do have some comments to make based on where I was taking the Erpheronia-Caltharian relations after Mertogran's demise and the Treaty of Veltin was signed.

One thing I had planned to write after I finished up on the Erpheronian side of things, was a bit about the various duchies of Caltharia, since they were mentioned in several entries, including my own on Mertogran and Artero.

My thinking was going to be along the lines of what Mina has suggested - that the Dukes ruled in Caltharia after the end of the war. I figured that the Treaty of Veltin was probably named for where it was signed, but that it was signed by the rulers of the various Duchies at the onset of the War of Ancyros. Whether they ruled in harmony or discord with one another, I wasn't sure, but I expect that either regional or familial alliances would have existed and could have led to in-fighting amongst them.

My plan was to have the following Duchies:

1. Thantocha: the area northeast of the Goltherlon Forest - notably the Twinnean Peaks

2. Salazar: the northeasternmost part of Caltharia, which would include the Heath of Salazar and extend south along the coast of the Adanian to Veltin.

3. Cantollio: the triangular area from Veltin to Doovens, from Doovens to the point where the northern tributary of the Wynein River flows into the Adanian Sea, and then north from this point back to Veltin http://www.santharia.com/maps/medium/santharia_kingdoms.htm

4. Carmalad: south from the Duchy of Cantollio to Cavthan. Whoever rules this duchy is the person I envisioned would be living in Count's Manor, though I must admit if I'd my way it would change to Duke's Manor or something more appropriate.

5. Cavthan: east from Cavthan to the Istarin Forest and south to the Alianian Hills

Sorry again for my very LONG, unexplained absence.

Trel.


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Question re kings and castles - Carmalad in particular

« Reply #6 on: 14 January 2008, 23:48:00 »

Welcome back again, Trel! cool

While real life always mingles with Santharian affairs, it is good to know that our Erpheronian/Caltharian history expert still has everything under control and has plans for pretty much everything that happened back then. I hope we get some more progress done this year in that area - with Judy's Carmalad rework and further progress on the Caltharian tribe entry including the nomenclature stuff we're building a great basis here!


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