Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

Coren FrozenZephyr

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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #15 on: 10 July 2007, 00:06:19 »

Sorry, it is a bit difficult to explain. Let's see: Please open fe the Twin Kingdom table

There at the top you have "the rectangular-box-caption": "The Era of Consolidation", I suggested putting the Nybelmarian Era right under that in a different "rectangular-box-caption". The first event is "5491 b.S. The Pact of the Silent Wind: The Formation of the Twin Kingdom", so that falls under the nybelmarian "Age of Flight".

However the Sarvonian Era of Consolidation (8.500 B.S. - 3.400 B.S) is longer than the Nybelmarian ones here. So at 5400 BS you would introduce another "rectangular-box-caption", the nybelmarian "Era of Dawn". Perhaps to distinguish between Nybelmarian & Sarvonian eras/classification, you could make the Nybelmar 'caption-box' smaller, or format it differently, or with different colours etc.

This way, at a glance a reader who is primarily based in Santharia would know which Sarvonian era corresponds to the given Nybelmarian one. And visa versa for Nybelmar developers.


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #16 on: 10 July 2007, 00:21:29 »

To put it bluntly: I won't do dramatic design changes at this point regarding the history tables. We need to use the system first before we can consider what to improve, if the changes are major. Any additional box, changed colours etc. is a lot of work.

I'm aiming for independent Nybelmarian eras therefore, this should be possible with reasonable effort, because it's 1:1 to how the Sarvonian tables work, I only need to convince the export to take other eras. Displaying Sarvonian eras in Nybelmar might make limited sense as well, so I have to determine what to do when with the resources I have at hand.


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Coren FrozenZephyr

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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #17 on: 10 July 2007, 00:23:15 »

I have a question regarding 'merged captions'. I support your point and will separate relevant but distinct captions but what if an "event" is an inextricable conglomeration of a sequence of events. For example:

- 3400-3300 BS: The Krar Invasion – Intervention of the Orihirim – Birth of II. Krath
* Waves of Krar armies come down on the unsuspecting Arath with crushing force. With the Orihirim operating overtly instead of manipulating from behind the scenes as usual, a horrible genocide is averted. With cajoling and where sweet words fail with force (though never lethal), intermarriage is arranged between the two tribes to avoid similar catastrophes from surfacing over ethnic grounds ever again. A new people, the Krathaszar, are born out of this rigorous effort. The Orihirim retreat into their realm, leaving only a rank of advisors with the newly-“forged” empire (II. Krath).

These events all occur within the same time frame. They are not 'sequential' time-wie (ie they do not happen one after the other). To separate them into three captions here would break the logic and flow of the narration.

What do I do with these?


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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #18 on: 10 July 2007, 01:41:38 »

History tables are not primarily "narrations", but try to list seperated facts one after the other and provide short explanations. Therefore as long as there is a logical seperation between facts (events), these should be treated as own incidents. As you managed to seperate these issues already by writing The Krar Invasion – Intervention of the Orihirim – Birth of II. Krath it is quite logical to split this in three entries with the proper captions and the corresponding texts.

It might be that for example for a certain history table it is irrelevant how precisely something developed, e.g. how and when the Birth of II. Krath happened. In that case only the Birth of II. Krath entry/event would be added as relevant for that table, and the description would contain an extremely brief recount of how this came to pass, and that's it. So such events should be written as much on its own as possible.


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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #19 on: 21 July 2007, 10:49:45 »

I'm preparing Nybelmar history now with these eras which will apply to everything of that continent. The era definitions however end with the provided events. Everything that happens later will show up at the moment under the era "The Current Age" then, starting in 2970 b.S. ending today. Unless you can provide more Era names. Just wanted to point that out, as using the Sarvonian eras doesn't make that much sense, so better keep it straightly seperated and fill in the details as soon as we got them.

Dates provided BTW are not always entirely consistent with what is already on the site, e.g. 5491 b.S. was defined as the Pact of the Silent Wind date in the Krean entry, now you just put it roughly at 5500 b.S. In these cases I take the more accurate date on the site. Sometimes dates are simply omitted in the given list, with no approximation, which could lead to serious confusion as you might only put it some years after a certain event. However, if you don't provide an approximate date the event will show up in the same year as the previous event. Please be aware of that. Moving dates later is no problem, they should help to get an orientation though. We add a "ca." anyway at all dates that are unsure. Providing no dates at all might lead to problems.

E.g.
- The Departure of Sálohár the Bright & the Genesis of the Orihirim
- The Mystery Tribe Heads North
- The Nomads of Vaenath Migrate South

will all be mentioned at the year 5500 b.S. unless you state otherwise.

Another problem: "The Mystery Tribe Heads North" has no relevance allocation.

Also the relevance list is incomplete. For example who or what is "Tar Oria"? And "Orero Kreankra"? When you come across it the first time you have no idea, it is explained much, much later. This should be explained better in the event "Birth of the First Krean Empire: Orero Kreankra".

Also you write at the revelation: "Twin Kingdom (Also: Orero Kreankra - 1st Krean Empire)" So the Twin Kingdom is identical with "Orero Kreankra"? Or is it the first empire of the Twin Kingdom and should be treated seperately? You really need to make this clear or things get up pretty messed here.

Various things in that list are very sketchy and can hardly be understood properly without any inside knowledge. And actually we should try to give a detailed list of events (and explanations) for people who are looking things up, and the basic background information is strongly needed here. Two lines in some events barely cover what we need to make the tables accessible and helpful for information seekers. While it's a good start, there's still a lot of information missing.

One more:
"A similar situation exists among the Arath in the west." is not a standalone event. Read in the Arath table this will not tell you anything.


« Last Edit: 21 July 2007, 16:52:53 by Artimidor Federkiel »	Logged

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Coren FrozenZephyr

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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #20 on: 21 July 2007, 20:01:32 »

Then do not upload it for this update.


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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #21 on: 21 July 2007, 20:40:12 »

It will be uploaded this update at any rate - there's not that much to upload aside from this given our performance in working towards stuff to upload on the site lately.

These tables are development tables anyway, so we should treat them that way, but we should work to get the best out of it eventually - and it is important to have them up and see where the deficits and necessities to improve lie. So if you have something to change (now or later) just make sure to mention the event and post the updated stuff (the whole texts, not need to mark every changes in colour) and I will update the tables. I'm pretty much through with what we have now. Things are fragmentary at various parts, but we make an important step of having history stuff on the site that has been lingering around at the Forum as of yet and wasn't that easily accessible.

See my comments as constructive criticism on which we can build to get history on the site and to make it as perfect as we possibly can!


« Last Edit: 21 July 2007, 20:47:18 by Artimidor Federkiel »	Logged

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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #22 on: 21 July 2007, 21:12:09 »

Ok, that's as far as I could get:

Krean Embargo of the Evalaris Queendom

The rest has no relevances allocated, and dates are practically non-existent at this point, so we'll leave it at that for now. Feel free to provide updates in the course of time to elaborate the existing events further with more explanations and context and provide some more accurate dates. The rest of the events will be added once we have allocations.


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Re: Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS

« Reply #23 on: 11 February 2008, 00:37:44 »

I just realized that the table on the site does not have the captions in the order they are listed here. When I find the time I will try to edit in more specific dates so the system will not authomatically jumble up the cronology.


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Outline History of Western Nybelmar: unknown-2800 BS