* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Alsetism - an Underlying Force within the Disc - the Proposal  (Read 2685 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.653


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« on: 09 July 2008, 10:03:32 »

Don't bother reading and trying to make sense of this!  It's a placeholder for the entry at the moment.   azn

Since we didn't actually have a formal thread for the proposed concept of Alsetism (everything was all mixed up in the seven pages of 'Magnetism'), I'm creating this so that we actually have a unified concept to look at and discuss.     Right now this is just an overview statement plus the various ideas and concepts which have been hashed out or suggested to date (and which don't contradict each other atm.  So, for example, the 'lines' concept and the 'grid' concept are not included, as they have been now visualized as planes radiating outwards from a central source...), still in the process of collation and reconciliation.


=====================================================

ALSETISM – The Proposal



Alsetism is a mysterious force which seems to radiate outwards from the central core of the disc of Caelereth, in generally-defined 'lines' (or so they appear) which are consistently spaced though not consistent in width or power.  They 'fade' and 'broaden' as one moves away from the centre of the disc - believed to be in the heart of the Thaelon Forest on the continent of Sarvonia.

  Some sentient beings are 'sensitive' to this force, felt as a faint 'tugging' sensation on their skin.  The force appears to emanate from OR be attractive to the dark, slickly-surfaced metallic ore known as alsetite.   Alsetic lines can be detected and mapped by use of an alsetic compass.  In combination with a map of the known or projected lines in an area, one can navigate the face of Caelereth. 

Strange phenomena (all kinds of effects are reported) can occur where alsetic forces are strong, such as in the heart of the elven forests.   Large concentrations of life, whether animal, human, or other races, seem to 'warp' and disrupt the lines (such as cities).  Water has a similar effect, making it difficult to navigate when not close to land.   

Santharians view alsetism as a strange energy part magical, part mystical/philosophical, and part alchemical.  It is considered a direct and providential gift from the Twelve by those who worship them, and is taken for granted in much the same way as the force of 'attraction' (gravity) which holds us down on the disc.



-------------------------------------------------------

Collated Notes to work from (selected from the “Magnetism in Caelereth?” thread)
-------------------------------------------------------


What about if we consider some sort of "big bang" theory? Just a thought experiment:

Picture this: Life came into being e.g. by the Thought of Avá. Which means that there was the "central Thought" that turned into matter. And from the matter life arose.

If you imagine this matter as, say, a diamond, then splinters of it could have drifted away from it when the "big bang" happened, the materialisation of the Thought. Around the diamond Caelereth came into being.

The diamond would still be the core of the world (Thaelon, magnetic magical energy), and the splinters are still attracted to it in the far distance. They cannot pull away. This constellation holds the disc of the world floating in the air. The splinters (stars?) would also be a source of magic, as the are parts of the central stone. They would stabilze the magnetic field.

This would then display at the compass - there are influences from the rim of the world and from the center, so a needle (ot a combination of items) could be held in balance.

This of course ties together with the belief, that matter and spirit are related in this magnetic field, so in between this magnetic field we'd have as well a spiritual balance. This all explains partly the Netherworlds as well, which are seen as a reflection of the upside world. The spiritual balance would then ensure some sort of karma principle within the spiritual magnetic force field.

Magnetospiritual energy, anyhow... and those little 'spindles' would be ley lines - part physical, part magical, mostly magnetic.

There is an ore which comes in a special form, a metallic crystal or crystaline metal, something looking like very lengthy cuboids with a pyramid on each end, either packed tightly or imbedded in another material. They could be of different size, the bigger the stronger is the Xforce they are exhibiting on other cuboids of this material. (Imaging a big one and a small one is on a flat, even surface. Then the big one would attract the small one to a bigger amount, the small one would move (more) to the big one. ) If you let such a cuboid fall or smash it, it will use its properites. However, if you bring such a smaller piece which has lost its attracting properties near an intact one, it will be working again.
This ore can be melted and formed and if brought into contact of a big, intact  cuboid, it gets the same attracting properties (now we have our compass needle)

Alsetite for the ore - Alsetic for the adjective - Alsetism for the force – Alslines for the shape of that force – lodestone for the common name and Lodestone for the central force.

 Let's try it in a sample paragraph and see how it rings:


Senior Sage Artheos Mirabil Federkiel writes upon the concept of Caelereth's beginnings, "Life came into being by the Thought of Avá.  Her most deep and central thoughts became so profound that they compressed into pure matter - as shining as adamant, as infused with power as lodestone - and from that matter life arose. 

The purity of Ava's thoughts at last became so concentrated that they could no longer hold together in Her mind - they sprang apart, as stone might shatter into brilliant shards under a dwarven cleaving blade, and the Thought materialized as Caelereth.

There, at the core of our world, still lies the great Lodestone - Thaelon in all its mystical beauty - still imbued with strange energies for which we have few names.  'Alsetism' some have called it, after the force which attracts iron to the common lodestone or alsetite ore.   At the edges of our universe - the great Void, the bubble of the stars, the Underworld, and whatever others there may be around us - those splinters still float, still trailing the energy of Ava's thoughts, still pulling both away and towards the centre.   

Magic, Ava's thinking, alsetic ley lines - whatever one wishes to call this force,  it meshes our world as a flounder lies in a net, and strings its lines of power across our land.....


If the Ley direction is inlaid in the disk itself, the enormous changes that sundered caelereth into the different continents might have caused local diferences. not to mention the fact that compasses are much less reliable on the sea, if at all.

But then I'd have to propose that as they widen and move further away from the central Lodestone, just as beams of light do, that their strength also lessens, making a clearer signal on the 'edges' of the map much more difficult to pick up.  Another very good reason why the center of our world is so very developed, well-mapped, and settled, and its edges mysterious and uncharted (literally!).   

 Of course, there is still the issue of 'mapping' this design.  I suspect that the existing "Alsetic Maps" would be about as reconstructed as a hominid skull:  a few 'pieces' mapped out on the well-travelled areas of the land, a few measurements taken on water and in less civilized areas, and the rest 'filled in' and extrapolated from the design that was beginning to emerge.  Plus there are the various distortions that might happen in the planes, so that the width might vary, the direction might warp, and so on... but again, I wouldn't want this too precise!


"Let us introduce lines of different strength. There are 24 very strong lines (following our Mowickle clock) which where of course discovered very early and because they are near each other in Sarvonia the chance that this "science" was developed there is great. These lines are used for the compasses mainly AND the names of the lines are according the Mowickle clock. So when a sailor says, "we just are crossing Sunreign" then he wants to say that they are crossing the line which runs from the Thaelon straight to the south."

Perhaps in the History section we could name some famous 'dowsers' / 'alsetic witches'  who are credited with the various discoveries... and when it was discovered that there WERE 24 and when they were named (obviously AFTER the Mowickle was invented...)



You look at a map and check that you are in an area 'bounded' by something you can run into if you get lost - a railway line, a major waterway, with luck a dirt road, a long cliffline, etc.  You move around in that area with those landmarks always in mind.  Leylines would work the same way.


.  Well-known trails often would tend to follow leylines - when the first settler took his horse, or wagon, or family through to new land, he would feel a 'sense' of ease when travelling in the direction the alsetic energy was flowing.    Note the deviation over the Roughs where the land has been disturbed by numerous upheavals over the centuries.

I'd think every sentient being, and most beasts, would be sensitive to leyline force in the same way as we are aware of gravity.  We don't even think about it much of the time, we simply put a cup down expecting it to stay on a horizontal surface.   Or perhaps in the way we know where the sun is even with our eyes closed, from the sensation of heat on our faces.   Dwarves are IN he earth and closer to the Alsetic ore - they are also a different species with differing acuity of senses, so yes, they are more tuned into it.  I'd expect elves to be the same (they already think humans are half-blind and deaf....)   

some people/animals being able to sense the lines.  The migration of certain birds and animals could be used to support this, as it seems a really convenient way for them to navigate.  Mermaids could be thought to use them to find their way too.

  Alsetism is  a force, an energy, a power, which isn't exactly equivalent to magnetism - it's a combination of a physical pulling, a spiritual 'chi', a belief-based purity, and a magical concentration of ounia (if I can express it that way).   

The Thaelon rewrite is in still in progress, and I've changed/added already quite a bit of strange phenomenons (see here). If we nail this "magnetic source" down this would explain some more of the O'phyría/Salen'seiá mysteries, yup.


Notice that there is a nice logic to how they spread out, so that the 'civilized', populated nations with a long history are closer to the source (and thus to the ability to navigate easily, migrate, encourage trade, send communications, and so on) - at least from a Compendiumist's point of view.

The graphic below shows a side view of the disc, with a possible expanded view of how the alsetic force radiates from the centre.   If we postulate that a Lodestone exists at the centre of the disc, we can alternatively view that as a physical force (like magnetism), a spiritual force (Ava's Thought, the dwarven realm of TolBaroll), a magical force (a great concentration of ounia?) and/or a combination of the above.   

It also conveniently explains the chaos of the Netherworld, in which all forces are pulling away from a centre, struggling for dispersal rather than union, and constantly exerting a faint but noticable alsetic pressure on the minds and bodies of the creatures there (just as powerlines are said to radiate a magnetic force that disturbs wildlife and gives humans headaches.... :) )

The 'top edge' of the 'plane' forms the 'line' which the sensitives/dowsers/compasses can detect, whether high or low.

   It would ALSO mean that not just the width of the line (the width of the plane's top edge) would vary in strength, but the depth of the plane at the point where the 'reader' detects it!     That is, if you are dowsing for a leyline (plane of alsetic energy) at the top of a mountain, you have a lot more accumulated depth of energy beneath you and the field should be deeper/stronger.     If you are following a leyline along a dwarven mine tunnel, you are proportionately shallower.


The compass itself tells you the line void-centre, the distance of the lines from each other tells you the distance from the centre - the farther they are away from each other, the farther you are away from the centre.


Compass like a Chinese ‘earthquake clock’ – see mira’s idea:

If we place a lodestone in a tube-like compartment, and insert this on a pivoting point underneath a bell, marking the bell on the exterior where the tube connects to it, the 'impact' of the lodestone suddenly moving when it enters a line can even give a signal! No need to watch a silly stone for three days trying to find a mayor line!

"Nol  = north      Sol = south      Eol =east        Wol = west   "

Coincidentally, the acronym for the compass directions is the same as the Human (Morelsche) tongue.  It is believed by scholars that the earliest human settlers borrowed dwarven usages to describe the country around them, and a consonant shift occurred in many words to make the sounds easier on the human tongue."






Alsetism Credits: Thanks to Artimidor, Mira, and Talia, who all contributed significantly to the development of this concept
Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 143
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 11.657


Shendar, Shen-D'auras


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #1 on: 13 July 2008, 19:22:55 »

I'll post my latest (or last) proposal  here, for I think I dreamed the right thing tonight and found the final solution for the alsetism.

First: Forget completely about earthen magnetism.

First Proposal:

Developer's View:
Compendiumst's Knowledge:

- In the very center of the Caelerethian bubble is a lodestone, it is the pole in the center, the void is the other pole to which alsetism is directed. (That's easier than the monopole idea, for we are more used to dipoles)

- The center of the Thaelon sits on the disk right over this center of the world*

- Alsetism is sliced.

- The slices  thickness is very small near the centre (--> 0) and considerable broad ( 4 degrees) near the void (NOT only near where the void meets the disk, but everywhere, at the zenit as well!) . They are evenly spaced and stand all vertically on the plane the disk lies in (see Judy's pic)
There are 24 such slices, two are always opposing each other forming a disc.

{
  - Through the center/lodestone  go 12 disks whose centers are very thin (--> 0) , near the void they are 4 degrees broad, they are evenly spaced within the bubble AND they all stand vertically on the plane the disc lies in *
<---- that is the same}

- The alsetic force in these disks gets weaker, the more they broaden (how much?)

- In the next vicinity of the Void strong, but more random and unpredictable alsetic forces are present.


Look here

Note: Here you see the 2-dimensional view of the 24 "slices", but  , if you extent them to the sphere, they are 12 disks as I described them. (two opposing slices =one disk) Limegreen line!


- There are two components which define the strength of the force at every point , a vertical and horizontal one

Look here

Note:
red line: resulting force,
orange line=horizontal component, discovered first
greenline=vertical component, discovered later, three-dimensional compass possible



- Alsetism can be detected with the help of an alsetic ore, the xyz.
 
- The purity of the ore defines how effectiv alsetism can be detected, the purer the metal the weaker the detectable force may be.


******
- There is a force, called alsetism, which seems to have its source in the Thealon forest, around this forest it is the strongest worldwide (apart from the void, but who has been near the void?)

- The force seems to be concentrated in 24 areas (? - the two dimensional variety), which are narrow near the Thaelon and broaden  farther away from the Thaelon

- The force seems to be concentrated in 24 slices (the three dimensional variety), which are very narrow near the Thaelon and get broader, the farther away from the Thaelon one moves (later detected, advanced research)

- A picture for this force could be: Imagine a strand of very thin thread which has the knot in the center of the Thaelon, but is spread out the farther away from the Thaelon one gets. (works two and three dimensional)

- Alsetism can be detected with the help of an alsetic ore, the xyz.
 
- The purity of the ore defines how effectiv alsetism can be detected, the purer the metal the weaker the detectable force may be


----> The advanced compendiumists have to be aware, that the alsetic force pulls radially outward from the center, and know how to split apart the vertical and horizontal component. That can be easily achieved with medieval means (with a kind of springscale)

*************

*We can make a final map another time where the Thaelon sits right over this center in the middle of the disk, see this thread

**There is somewhere defined, that a circle has 360 degrees - sun entry?
These "disks" are our former slices, just adapted to a sphere

Additional proposal:
« Last Edit: 22 July 2008, 05:39:28 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 143
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 11.657


Shendar, Shen-D'auras


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2008, 19:24:40 »

Ok, we want some special places. Let's give Alsetism an additional characteristic, not new, but...


Developer's View:
Compendiumst's Knowledge:


Alsetism not only radiates outward like described above, but has an additional characteristic:
There are places,
-  rings or circles in the 2-dimensional picture*, with their center in the Thaelon,
- sphere-shells , one inside the other, in the 3-dimensional pic
which show the alsetic force as well.


Look here

- These circles/sphere-shells are spreading out with equally distances
- they get broader, the farther away from the center they are
- the force within them gets weaker, the farther away from the center they are

---> could be the other way round as well (broader and weaker near the centre)

 - At the crossing of the radial orientated alsetic forces and the circular ones, places with special characteristics are found





- ....


- There are circles (one in the very beginning of the research, the closest to the Thaelon), where the alsetic forces are not directed towards the Thaelon or the Void, but vertical to it,  along a circle

- At the crossings , compasses don't work properly, the don't show towards the Thaelon or void, but in another direction
----> and strange things happen there

- ....

---> Places for standing stones or other "sacred places"

And all the other stuff you want to add!

What do you think, Judy?

Forgot a property of both proposals, both DV and CK:

The force is bend/disturbed, compasses don't work properly in the vicinity or big deposits or the ore!
« Last Edit: 22 July 2008, 05:51:28 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 143
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 11.657


Shendar, Shen-D'auras


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #3 on: 13 July 2008, 21:43:12 »

Possible implications:


As we have now an alsetic dipole, with one side of the needle (red) pointing to the Thaelon and the other (blue) to the Void, the preferred direction (the "good" one) could be that to the Thaelon (red). Now, the needle which is in the circular (shell-) field has a direction as well, along the circle. We can now define, that the red side of the compass needle points always to the right (seen from a view onto the disk). As red= right= good , the direction to the right would have the notion good as well. And therefor clocks were constructed in the way, that the watch hand turns clockwise. The sun's movement along the sky in the south could have been the trigger for it as well ;)





Some more possible implications:  Proposals

Let's look at the second concept again. let's this time assume, we have 6 circles   (or 12 - would match the 12 disks)

The alsetic force in each circle has again two components, the vertical one, and a horizontal, that along the circle (take here the 2 - dimensional picture for better understanding).

Now we can say,

- the horizontal component of first , third and fifth' ... circle points always  to the right (if you look from above on the disk , that would be the "tops" of the wave picture), the vertical UP

- the horizontal component of the second, 4th and sixth.... to the left and the vertical DOWN towards the ground.

----->   "Down" , in the ground, the Netherworld, etc is lurking the evil ---->  so the LEFT DIRECTION IS EVIL , anticlockwise is evil  (not for dwarves though)

--->     "UP" is good, so the direction to the right is good ,  a clockwise turn is good ------> therefor the arm of the Mowickle clock turns to the right because Clockwise is good.


--> Good magic performs its rites clockwise, evil magic anticlockwise. (Going in a circle)

Odd numbers are good, even numbers are evil!

Doesn't have to be applied to every culture !

The crossings between the circular alsetic field and the radial ones may be differently used as well - for good and evil magic.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 22 July 2008, 05:59:18 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 143
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 11.657


Shendar, Shen-D'auras


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #4 on: 13 July 2008, 21:44:41 »

Discussions here please
Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 143
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 11.657


Shendar, Shen-D'auras


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #5 on: 22 July 2008, 06:03:30 »

I made the concept a bit easier now and skipped something, hopefully this is ok now.

The decision has still to be made, if the circular alsetic fields (the shells-spheres) are smaller near the Thaelon or near the void (much stronger forces, smaller areas near the Thaelon) or the other way round. That would change the direction the needle points at in the crossings of both fields.
Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[21 September 2019, 20:08:43]

[17 September 2019, 22:01:36]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1087
Latest: aimeusdietger
Stats
Total Posts: 144685
Total Topics: 11053
Online Today: 85
Online Ever: 226
(06 November 2012, 05:38:23)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 95
Total: 95

Last 10 Shouts:
22 February 2019, 06:47:10
A delightful 2019 shout-out to you all ^^
21 November 2018, 23:39:14
Seems none of us can stay away ..
09 March 2018, 23:37:46
Dream goes on as long as there are dreamers my friend.
17 January 2018, 01:23:22
Oh, how I wish we could reawaken the Dream :)
16 January 2018, 11:55:48
Hello everyone!
14 September 2017, 09:40:04
Hello all! It's been a minute since I poked my nose in here. Can't remember if I ever did anything useful.
09 May 2017, 14:17:18
Ah, too bad that internet is so restricted in China, Ferra. Can't be much fun surfing the web that way if Big Brother's watching you... Hope you enjoy your stay nevertheless!
03 May 2017, 17:41:19
Hi, dear Arti and other developers!

This year I am in China and cannot use any Google services including YouTube. For this reason I stopped uploading new Nepris videos. I can also not read any comments there.

It just crossed my mind that this information might be useful to you.

Cheers

F
26 March 2017, 12:48:56
Hello to anyone that might read this. :)
22 December 2016, 02:38:16
Merry Christmas everyone!
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx