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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #15 on: 10 September 2008, 05:24:29 »

Ok, I am satisfied with that overview ;) Enough tweaking.
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« Reply #16 on: 10 September 2008, 12:52:30 »

Hey, *I* can't help it if you're *also* a highly literate, eclectically well-read, articulate and amusing specimen of humanity!   Aren't great minds always said to 'think alike'? 

(flutters her eyelashes in full Clissaesque mode, with the effect of causing a breeze strong enough to loft the nearest parchment scraps from her desk)
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« Reply #17 on: 10 September 2008, 20:49:44 »

Are the other deities considered demi-gods? Saints? What is their history? Would these saints perhaps be long dead venerated Krean who are now held up with a specialty of sorts? Or, are these children of the two major goddesses?

It seems to me that the Krean deities are simply presences used only in times of trouble. Otherwise, they serve little purpose. To me, it would be simpler to have the Krean be their own gods as they seem to consider themselves that anyway...
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« Reply #18 on: 10 September 2008, 20:58:10 »

They are all considered deities, and as such by default -different- from ordinary mortals and Krean.

And yeah, the Krean religion is based on the free market principle. If a Krean needs something, and a God(ess) offers that service, he/she gains status/validity/importance in the eyes of that Krean.

And why ever would you want to use the simple method? ;)
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #19 on: 11 September 2008, 03:00:11 »

Vow, who said anything about more deities? I just mentioned "spiritual powers"/guardians. They only have 2 deities, both of whom are female (and plus this Creator figure)

"Would these saints perhaps be long dead venerated Krean who are now held up with a specialty of sorts?" Some of them would be. But again that's only a subset. There can be many more varieties of "positive spiritual powers" - afterall we have dozens of evil ones, ranging from demons to ghosts etc. The precise content is not important for now.

"It seems to me that the Krean deities are simply presences used only in times of trouble. Otherwise, they serve little purpose. To me, it would be simpler to have the Krean be their own gods as they seem to consider themselves that anyway..."

Well, if you but let me wedge a word in ;) I'll get there. This is only the overview. Also, not all religions have to follow the same format. Also, you don't need to fear someone in order to have faith in them or to pray to them.

also, with the Krean it is actually not quite the way you suggested. They usually pray to their gods when things are going well, to express their gratitude. If they have a problem, they try to solve it themselves. If that doesn't work, well you can always try to enlist the help of these "handymen/guardian entities" in the spiritual marketplace ;)
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

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"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #20 on: 11 September 2008, 03:16:36 »

Oh, I think I should make it clear that I do appreciate the comments! They did give me something to think about btw (if the Krean pantheon were to expanded by adding the children of the high goddesses, who would they mate WITH? Or no mates necessary?)

Btw, my replies are often terse/brusque these days as I am short on time. Please do keep up the commentary - I discover more about what I have in mind when I am trying to refute you guys :P
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #21 on: 11 September 2008, 04:21:13 »

Who has 'authority' under aspects of reality beyond Ankriss's and Arlea's spheres of control?

Does the first wave control them or did it just put them there for others to manipulate freely?
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #22 on: 13 September 2008, 19:37:21 »

(1) Will answer Decipher & Azhira's qs under Gods Overview

(2) Added two sections under Beliefs; next to come = "Ramifications of the Krean Creation Myth"
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #23 on: 17 September 2008, 13:00:01 »

Hey, just wanted to say that this Krean religion is great, very intriguing and unique. Just wondered....what set of morals does this religion have if the gods are seen as equal?

One wouldn't need to try and do good deeds, people would be no sense of guilt if they did wrong, no fear of wrath from the gods. But this might just mean that the Krean people create their own morality without the influence of religion. But then would this mean that it was a more selfish and egotistical society? Or would it become just free from corruption of the clergy? Sorry I'm just rambling on....too much coffee....  :)
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« Reply #24 on: 17 September 2008, 18:35:05 »

Quote
Quote from Artimidor: personally I miss unique concepts a bit as far as religion is concerned. You know, we have typical Gods in Santharia, in Aeruillin, in the Kuglimz lands, in Nybelmar etc. So why not try our hands on a more, say, relaxed, more saint-based hobbit system? (end of quote)

Hrmph, the Korweynites would have the head of such an heretic opinion...

Hello, Coren. I think it would be interesting to put Kreán religion alongside the Korweynite Aseyan and Murmillion faith as the third large, historic culture in Nybelmar. Maybe Smith could give some input. It would help to shape a bigger picture.

The both aforementioned nations essentially based their whole being into the fulfillment of religious prophecy and the supremacy of their faith over others (wiping the floor with each other in the process). The Korweynites think they have to do good because otherwise their gods will fail creating a paradise, the Murmillion think reality is humbug anyway.

How and why the Kreán came to their opinion would thus be quite interesting (maybe tied in pieces and basic myths into the backstory of Nybelmar with Memnon and this mystical bloody times before history). It's rather nihilistic if they think they can't do anything about what the gods might do and don't care to. Incidently this is the fundamental difference between ancient polytheism and "modern" religions.

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« Reply #25 on: 18 September 2008, 02:15:34 »

Coren said:
Quote
They did give me something to think about btw (if the Krean pantheon were to expanded by adding the children of the high goddesses, who would they mate WITH? Or no mates necessary?)

Here's a thought that could explain why the Krean's worship their twin goddess anyway as well as possibably explaining (if mythologically) how the Krean's came to be "Gods amoung Men."  Written in story form because that's how it occured to me.

Once long ago, there was the Creator.  And He WAS ALL THERE WAS.  Then he Thought, and the first wave arose from the termoils of His Thought.  From this wave arose, Arléá Goddess of the Waters, and Ankriss Goddess of the Earth.  Many also came, and many things came to be, Arléá and Ankriss were the only beings of their kind.  At first they were pleased with what had arose from the First Wave caused by the Thought of the Him.  So pleased were they with what they saw that they were pleased to think that they had created togther all they saw, and they forgot the Creator casting a viel of forgetfulness between Him and they.   For a long time they forgot and the two goddess were pleased by all their was.  Taking pleasure in adding beauty to what their was until they truely became the creators of many things...yet their power had no forgotten where it had come from that it had come from the All, from the HE.  Thus it came to pass that the more Arléá and Ankriss created the less they were able to take pleasure in what they had made.

For with each thing they created the more the power remembered that They had once been One, that though now two She's the power had once been One He.  Yet, the Goddesses had willed themselves to forget, and forgot they had, but now it came to pass that they were lonely for they knew not what.

It came to pass that on a certain day the Goddess were walking with each other in the garden they had made and they came upon a pair of birds coupling together in the air.  It appeared pleasurable to them and each lamented that they had not an opposite with whom they could take such pleasure.   As the wind blew the waters of the sea upon their places, and the earth sang her melody, each looked upon the other and thought Are we not opposite?  Can we not as opposite take such pleasures as the birds do?  So it was that each looked on desire at her opposite and they fell to loving.  The Goddesses, opposite and equals, coupled with each other as the beast of the field had done before them.   So great was their passon for each other and so great was their pleasure with this new thing they had discovered that for many years their lips didn't live the others lips, and their bodies didn't leave the others body.   Their pleasure was so great and their passion so fierce that all the world burned with their lust. 

The fire of their lust burned fierce upon the earth, until it to became a separate thing, and so Lust, Desire, and Passion was born.  The Fire of Lust did not destroy the world as some fires do but rather joined with every thing it touched.  From this joining of Lust and Nature the spirits were born, the demi-gods, and all the powers lesser yet equal to the pair whose lust had created them.

For time unknown it continued as such, sometimes the goddess left each other to do work and to take pleasure in the desire such seperation created, and each time the goddessses coupled togther the Lust Fire was created again creating more spirits and demi-gods.

Yet after a time, Ankriss and Arléá grew tired of Lust.   While they still found pleasure in sometimes dwellling in their lust it came to give them no more pleasure then creating had done.   The Goddess, disconent, parted from each other and once again longed for something they didn't even know.

While the Arléá was swimming amoung the waters, she spied some dolphines with their pups, and she took pleasure at the sight.  Swimming amoung them she obserserved how tender each mother was to her young, and how tender the male mated with female.  No lust was to be found amoung this mating, just a tenderness for which Arléá had no name.  And Arléá's body longed for such a experience as her mind longed for a name for such a thing.   She also longed for a pup of her own towards which she too could show a tenderness.   Once again she longed for an opposite to do as the dolphines did, and once again she remember Ankriss and the pleasures they had experienced before.   

Meanwhile Ankriss observed a similiar sight in between the eagles who mate for life, and each Goddess once again sought her opposite to re-create what they had seen.

Once more the Goddesses coupled with each other, and took pleasures within the secret of each other.  This time they did not go to loving with fire but rather with earth and water, each cautiously taking time to explore the other tenderly seeking to create a height of passion in each other that neither had experienced before.  From their tenderness, Love was born and given a name.   Like the time of their lust, each did not leave each other, but rather then a fire burning then fading then burning, their loving was like a spark that grew steadily as they each roused passion within the other.  So perfect was their loving that their powers melded and combined and each found themselves with child.

So it would be with time that each would bring forth the perfect representation of themselves, and as time passed the goddess children would join like their parents and create the perfect race: The Krean, they who are the completion of both supreme goddess, their equals, and their children.


Feel free to ignore or use.
« Last Edit: 18 September 2008, 02:50:03 by Gwai'ayia Quillouf » Logged

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #26 on: 18 March 2013, 18:24:44 »

Look what I found! An entry into which considerable thought has gone and which stands just a few steps short of completion. I wonder why I left it to dry for four years.

I located the earlier drafts on my computer, but my short-hand notes on the missing sections no longer mean anything to me! So I wanted to finish the entry with what I *do* remember before my memory of it erodes further. :P

Will round it up tonight. Better to have something on the site than nothing, I suppose. :)


EDIT: I want to portray Ancient Krean religion as an arrogant and somewhat self-righteous philosophy (the Ancient Krean are meant to represent an "Atlantean" civilisation anyway). Then it can be the backdrop against which the more humane philosophies of the Krean monks developed.

All the entries I have been posting recently are groundwork for Child of Spring. The aim is to write the entry on the monks. But to do so, I first need to walk through certain steps in my own mind. The Krean Arcane Pyramid; Magic of the Priestesses of Ankriss; Ancient Krean Religion; Krean Monks overview; Way of Wind and Water; Magic of the Krean Monks...
« Last Edit: 18 March 2013, 18:32:40 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

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"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #27 on: 19 March 2013, 06:18:26 »

Argh. This is frustrating. I *know* that some time, somewhere in the last ten years I wrote a short blurb on the origins of the Krean religion (more specifically: on the origins of Ankriss). Something about their ancestors running away from Menemronn the Chosen's armies and hiding in the west. But I can't for the life of me remember the name of the woman who led the exodus - the one who became the first High Priestess. And I can't find anything through a forum search.
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #28 on: 19 March 2013, 19:58:52 »

19/03/2013: Done! Whew.

1. The Overview is a bit long, but it all seemed relevant and necessary!

2. Gods Overview is very sketchy, but I can't think of anything else. I don't remember what I had in mind for Ankriss and Arlea. Maybe inspiration will strike in the years to come. :)
« Last Edit: 19 March 2013, 20:06:51 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #29 on: 20 March 2013, 17:27:35 »

Coren, I will read it as soon as possible, as soon as my head feels free enough to deal with Krean Religion :)
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