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Author Topic: Ardelor's Hypothesis (re: Krean Magic)  (Read 4443 times)
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« on: 08 April 2009, 18:18:20 »

Ardelor's Hypothesis

Finally a very short (mini) entry from me! I doubt this would be of great interest to anyone, but I already referenced the concept several times in other entries. So, for the sake of thoroughness, the explanation follows. The entry can be found in the second post of this thread. As an alternative, I have also attached a Word 2003 version below.


PS: Step 3 in Coren's "completing what you started" saga. 3 down and 9 more to go! :D
« Last Edit: 27 June 2009, 16:55:12 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #1 on: 08 April 2009, 18:21:29 »

Ardelor's Hypothesis

Ardelor’s Hypothesis, named after the sorceress who discovered the phenomenon, is a Krean Magic concept which explains why Magic Persuasive cannot bring about something that one cannot attain through Magic Mechanical.

Background
Krean magic is divided into three tiers according to the methodology used in spell-casting: Magic Mechanical, Magic Persuasive, Magic Existential. Magic Persuasive, the “arch-school” of the Krean Arcane Pyramid, entails “defining” the desired possibility and “persuading” the First Wave to substitute that for the existing reality. The more lucid the description and the more cogent the “arguments”, the more likely the Web is to integrate that possibility - thus the less energy the mage has to spend to force his vision into reality. [Compendium’s Note: This, of course, is an oversimplification. The reader is encouraged to consult the overview on Krean arcane arts and the entry on Magic Persuasive.]

Essentially, a spell of the “persuasive” echelon carries out exactly the same process a mechanical mage would follow but does so through a ‘short-cut’: the mage outlines the purpose, what she wants to accomplish, and leaves the First Wave to take care of the technicalities. The “persuasive” mage is the architect who draws the blueprint and the First Wave the builder on the construction site.

As a rule of thumb, Persuasion is not to be attempted without a sound understanding of the Mechanics: one cannot ask the First Wave to do for one something one could not theoretically do on one’s own.


The Ardelor Hypothesis
According to Ardelor, the fact that one generally cannot successfully employ a persuasive spell to “describe” something one cannot bring about manually (that is, via Magic Mechanical) suggests that it is not the First Wave but the subconscious that completes the groundwork. An analogy would be how one no longer needs to think about how to draw each letter & how to form words with them once the process of writing becomes automatic. The Ardelor Hypothesis (note the word hypothesis) remains controversial however: see, for instance, Nirveillir’s powerful dissent.


Nirveillir’s Critique
Nirveillir argues that following the Ardelor Hypothesis one arrives at the rather surprising proposition that all one has to converse with, convince, in working a spell into the Lace is one’s own mind. With no external First Wave to persuade, does this mean, asks Nirveillir, that provided the mage is sufficiently self-delusional “anything goes”?


« Last Edit: 27 June 2009, 16:24:11 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #2 on: 08 April 2009, 18:23:49 »

Entries: Thematic List


Essential Reading


Major Entries
[...]


Sub-schools of Krean Magic
  • The Magic of the Priestesses of Ankriss


Further Reading & Related Concepts

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #3 on: 21 June 2009, 05:05:59 »

Given that no one has commented on this in two months and you are the authority on the subject, I'm going to go ahead and blarrow it for you...
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« Reply #4 on: 21 June 2009, 17:12:51 »

Well, I read this all already..

the & should vanish...
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« Reply #5 on: 27 June 2009, 16:02:39 »

Overview/short summary on top?
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #6 on: 27 June 2009, 16:10:24 »

Hmm... I was thinking maybe we could put this up as a sub-entry under Krean Magic - the way Clothing is done for Erpheronians for example. And then also list it as a separate text in both the magic and compendium menus.

It's only three paragraphs - so would the following suffice as an overview?

"The Ardelor Hypothesis is a Krean Magic concept which explains why Magic Persuasive cannot bring about something that one cannot attain through Magic Mechanical"
« Last Edit: 27 June 2009, 16:12:02 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #7 on: 27 June 2009, 16:16:10 »

Can it be specified a bit who Ardelor was/is? A lot of things are just taken for granted at such entries. Maybe at least provide some mini-background here. It's difficult enough to grasp the concepts at any rate. So it needs some grounding wherever possible, especially in an overview. The more the better.
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #8 on: 27 June 2009, 16:21:19 »

I don't understand. :confused: What kind of grounding did you have in mind? That's why I put the "background" there - recaps the main concepts of Krean magic for someone who has not read/does not remember the main overview.

I mention in the text that Ardelor is the person who came up with the hypothesis. Hmm... Maybe we should rename it to: "Ardelor's Hypothesis" rather than "The Ardelor Hypothesis". I'll also add that to the overview. Thanks!
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #9 on: 27 June 2009, 16:26:19 »

How are the Krean titles for mages e.g.? Ardelor could be a little boy with weird thoughts when he was munching Krean chocolate. Also always remember that it should be possible to read an Overview as a stand-alone thingy and approximately grasp the idea. For example Ximaxian spell overviews shouldn't have any technical details whatsoever, but summarize for the regular mortal what is achieved here. This should be attempted as best as it possibly can be here as well.
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #10 on: 27 June 2009, 16:37:44 »

Well, yes, but that's why I put the background, hypothesis and its implications. It looks a bit funny to spend a paragraph summarising a three-paragraph entry...

I agree with your comments whole-heartedly in relation to major magic entries, but given that this one is shorter than some of the overviews we have for tribe entries, it shouldn't be too much to ask someone who is interested to sift through the whole thing. After all, as I mentioned in the first post, it is a very technical aspect of Krean magic which I am including for the sake of thoroughness. So anyone who is minded to read this would be familiar with Krean magic anyway.

Also, personally I don't see how knowing Ardelor's title or age or lifestory is going to help anyone understand the concept. That's for the relevant person entry. For Ximaxian spells we don't include a biography on the person who invented it. Isn't "the Krean sorceress who discovered the phenomenon" enough?

Incidentally, a nod or encouragement every now and then would not hurt.

That said, I'll keep your suggestions in mind for future, longer entries!
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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