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Thodin Coldflame Lomin
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« on: 02 August 2009, 10:37:42 »

Corrections/Ideas inspired by Seeker will be in yellow
Corrections/Ideas inspired by Artimidor will be in orange

The Maces of Caelereth

The mace is used as the first and last line of defence against heavy infantry, and cavalry. By employing hard stone, or metal head of the weapon, armour can easily be crushed, and bones broken. The idea for the mace was drawn from the club, which is considered the grandfather of all bludgeoning weaponry. It was after the introduction of metal that bone, and wood clubs began to decline in popularity.

Maces are used as powerful one or two hand weapons against opponents that cannot be easily harmed with the edge of a blade. Having originally been developed from clubs made of hard wood, the idea of creating the weapons from metal eventually resulted in the first metal mace. As with the axe, the mace is made of a bulbous head and short shaft. The shaft is usually made from a length of hard wood, or large rod of metal and this serves as the handle for the mace. Placed atop the shaft is the head which is always made of some kind of hard metal, though ornamental maces may be grafted from golds and silvers.

The head is designed for bludgeoning, and certain variations of the mace have been known to have spikes on the head to increase the damage the weapon inflicts. The majority of the weight is in the head of the weapon, but the shaft can also be very weighty if made from metal. While wooden shafts are a great deal lighter than metal ones, the wood can be cut with a large enough sword or axe. The weight of a metal shaft and head make this weapon exceptionally slow in combat, and as such they are commonly used by more muscular individuals.

Description
The first maces were originally created with the idea of the club in mind. Made from bones and wood, clubs were used to crush limbs, and crack skulls of an animals while hunting or in preparation for the cooking of the animal. Many used this as a weapon and tool for hunting as it was easy to make, and could be easily carried due to it's light weight. As metal weaponry grew more and more prominent, armours grew more popular amongst the people. The use of regular stabbing and slashing weapons proved useless if the opponent was well armoured. In response to this the first metal club was created. The name given to this weapon was the mace, and in this way armoured knights became less of a threat on the battlefield.

Weapon Types

  • Clubs
  • Light Maces
  • Medium Maces
  • Heavy Maces

Clubs

  • Club
In essence the club is simply a length of wood, or bone with a slightly bulbous head on one end wielded as a weapon. Used as the universal term for any kind of bludgeoning weapon, the club is meant to either break bones or knockout a person by striking them about the skull. The size and weight of a club usually entails how effective it is striking out at an individual. As the club is the basis for almost all bludgeoning weapons, it can easily be strengthened by adding metal rings or spikes so as to increase the amount of damage the weapon induces. The larger and heavier a club is the more damage it can deliver in combat. As the most simple form of the mace, the club is well used as a hunting tool and a piece of weaponry.

  • Sap/Black Jack
The Black Jack is a small, easily concealable club used by a vast majority of thieves, assassins, and con men. Essentially the Black Jack is several pieces of lead put in a leather wrapping filled with sand. By swinging this around like a club people are able to easily knockout opponents with a single strike from this weapon. Due to it's small size, it is easy to use and move about with. Because of it's composition it can easily be confused with a bag of sand and is rarely seen as a weapon leaving many guards and city watchmen oblivious to the strength of this weapon.

  • Cudgel
The cudgel is easily capable of being confused with a walking staff, but is by no means any weaker than any other club. The top is lightly knotted for strength, but at times metal rings are usually bonded to the head of the weapon to increase the amount of pain it can inflict. This particular weapon is very popular amongst peasants, and can be easily used by anyone. It's light weight makes it a choice weapon for wanderers and travelers who move about dark roads at night. The cudgel is an exceptional weapon, and many prefer it to carrying around in comparison to larger clubs when out in the open.

Light Mace

  • Light Mace
Both a subcategory of maces, and a powerful weapon in it's own right, the light mace is designed to be both light weight, small and easily movable compared to it's heavier counterparts. Usually made of a slim metal rod with a small bulbous end, and a leather handle grip, this weapon has the appearance of any regular mace. The only notable difference is that this weapon is a great deal smaller than the average mace, and is capable of being whipped around at the same speed as a rapier or fencer's saber. At first sight this weapon may appear to be flimsy, weak, or delicate, but if used properly, can easily break a man's jaw. Although it is unable to inflict as much harm as a regular mace would due to it's light weight this mace's speed is it's advantage in combat.

  • Virge
A tool for corporal punishment, use as a riding crop, and the torturing of criminals this light mace is well known amongst guards, city watches, criminals, holymen, and choristers alike. Made of a long length of wood and usually set with a copper, brass, or bronze bobble, the virge is a light weight weapon used by militia men, guards, and priests capable of carrying out punishments with the mace. Though this weapon can at times be used as a ceremonial tool, it is capable of serving as a powerful weapon to those with limited knowledge on how to wield a mace. Notably, the shaft is a great deal longer than that of other maces, and a cross is usually fixed onto the head of the mace for either effect or infliction of pain.

Medium Mace

  • Mace
The average mace is made from a long shaft of metal or wood, with a bulbous sphere of metal attached to one end. With the invention of armour plating, and full bodied suits of armour, maces were designed to smash through, and crumple the obstacles that armour posed to foot soldiers, knights, and cavalry. The vast majority of maces are made of hardened iron or steel, though gold and silver may appear as decoration on some of them. Patterns, and increases in the length of the shaft, or size of the head are not uncommon for people who are looking to customize their weapon. Designed for both style, and power this weapon is ideal for the vast majority of people who are unable to wield sharp, or pointed weapons.

  • Morningstar
The morningstar is a basic mace, the only difference being that it has a spiked head. The spikes on the head of this mace are such that they appear to be like the rays of sunlight at firstlight. This weapon is meant to puncture through metal plates with incredible ease, and adds a more sadistic flavor to the average mace. More often then not, the shaft of the morningstar will be made of wood to increase the momentum when swinging the morningstar. Few people use this weapon, but certain powerful dwarves have been known to wield two of these weapons simultaneously. Style and flare are lost on this weapon, but none can deny that it is an incredibly powerful tool of war.

Heavy Mace

  • Orc Mace
This mace is unnaturally large in size, and is has been known to not only break the back of an enemy, but those of it's wielder as well. This weapon is particularly dangerous due the materials used to make it, and the inability to completely control who or what it will hit when used. The shaft is a long length of metal, and an incredibly bulbous head of nearly a ped in diameter, though several stronger orcs have been known to use ones that have a head of nearly two peds in diameter. The shaft of the weapon is not properly grafted to the head of the mace, and when swung with enough force, the head breaks away from the shaft. The head of the weapon is heavy enough to crush or roll over anyone that comes in the way of this metallic sphere. Needless to say, an incredible amount of strength, training, and constitution are necessary to use this weapon, and select few every live long enough to become truly good.

  • War Mace
The war mace takes the concept of the mace, and is designed to amplify it's destructive qualities. These maces come with many variations, the most common being an increase in the size of the weapon, particularly the head. These maces are usually spiked, or studded for added effect, and are generally used by more muscular or higher ranking individuals capable of making the purchase. Unlike regular maces, the spikes tend to cover the entire head of the weapon giving it a pincushion appearance. Humans, orcs, and dwarves have been known to employ this weapon in combat while most other races tend to shy away from such a heavy weapon. Though few use this weapon with relish, the destructive power of this weapon is unparalleled on the battlefield.
« Last Edit: 26 August 2009, 04:34:00 by Thodin Coldflame Lomin » Logged
Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #1 on: 02 August 2009, 10:48:21 »

Just a comment for you here Thodin ...

I know you aren't finished yet, but thought it was worthwhile pointing this out to you before you got too far along, just in case you weren't aware of it.

There is already an overview page on Blunt Weapons. Maces is already listed in that, with a paragraph of detail on maces. I don't know if any of the information already on that page would be of help to you or not, just thought I'd point it out to you in case you weren't aware.

What you are doing here looks good to me, however.

Dek
« Last Edit: 02 August 2009, 19:48:16 by Deklitch Hardin » Logged

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Thodin Coldflame Lomin
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« Reply #2 on: 03 August 2009, 01:10:52 »

That's funny Dek, no seriously! I'm aware, I did a little researching before starting this thread and had a long talk with Seeker, and got the go ahead from Artimidor before I started. Basically I'm following some of the ideas from more out of date overviews and I'm creating a completely knew section solely dedicated to maces. In a fantasy game it just strikes me as odd to not have maces especially when there are some heavily armoured knights around. :P

Thank you very much though for the heads up, and again for taking a look at what I have so far. I hope the rest of the guys and girls around here find it just as good. :)

-|Thodin Lomin|-
« Last Edit: 03 August 2009, 11:12:51 by Thodin Coldflame Lomin » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: 03 August 2009, 11:05:16 »

Cool! I was fairly sure you would have, but thought it was worthwhile checking on that with you in the odd chance you hadn't.

Dek
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Thodin Coldflame Lomin
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« Reply #4 on: 03 August 2009, 11:22:39 »

Thanks for checking up on me my friend, I really appreciate it. If ever you have an idea for a weapon don't forget to shoot it my way. ;) Now it's finally time to get back to writing, but Dek if ever you find time, how about helping me out with the maces when your free? I'm looking for people for the individual sections so it's time to get together a small group of people together to help us out.

As of right now I just need to get together the team before I finish this overview so if you know anyone have them PM me or come over to this thread. "the Smiths" are going to be the people to put together the mace section so send the best my way!!  :D
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« Reply #5 on: 03 August 2009, 13:29:20 »

By ornamental maces Thodin, do you mean weapons that might otherwise be too outsized/impractical to be used as a weapon on a regular basis, or by an ordinary person (Things like Zweihänders and the like) or weapons that were made for an ornamental purpose (Ceremonial swords come to mind) and might not serve as well as an ordinary weapon as a result?
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Thodin Coldflame Lomin
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« Reply #6 on: 03 August 2009, 21:51:38 »

In reply to your query Valan, my answer is yes.  buck

I'm more inclined to go with the whole ceremonial sword idea when I say ornamental maces. Anyone can carry around a large mace just for show, but I mean real royalty use maces and other what not just to signify how cool they really are you know what I mean? I think it might be nice to have those kind of ceremonial maces just so that it's not just some bashing weapon. I hope that answers your question Valan, and if you find anyone who's interested in helping me come up with the individual entries please send them my way!!  grin
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« Reply #7 on: 24 August 2009, 21:57:39 »

Alright I made some of my own edits and I'm finally done writing up this section. Now it's on to the comments, so I'm open to any thoughts, suggestions, comments, or critiques you guys may have for me. It's taken a while to get this done, and I'm sorry for having taken so long but RL is brutal XP. Any way everyone's opinion is greatly appreciated, thanks :).
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« Reply #8 on: 25 August 2009, 02:05:05 »

Good job Thodin.  thumbup I am excited to have a section dedicated to these weapons.  At some point I am sure I will find myself illustrating a few grin.  I took a look at the overview section and I have a few suggestions.  For starters there are some inconsistencies,  

1) What type of Mace was first produced.  The first paragraph implies it is the stone and hard wood mace but the description section points to the bone and wood mace.

2) Are maces heads always made of metal as stated in the last sentence of the 2nd paragraph.  I guess not based on other sentences about stone, wood, bone.  

I suggest the following to the fix these problems:



The mace was is used as the first and last line of defence against heavy infantry, and cavalry. By employing the hard stone, or metal head of the weapon, armour could can easily be crushed, and bones broken with relative ease. As swords, axes, and lances proved useless against heavily armoured soldiers, and in response the first maces were made from stone and lengths of hard wood.

Maces are used as powerful one or two hand weapons against opponents that cannot be easily harmed with the edge of a blade. Having originally been developed from clubs made of hard wood, the idea of creating the weapons from metal eventually resulted in the first metal mace. As with the axe, the mace is made of a bulbous head and short shaft. The shaft is usually made from a length of hard wood, or large rod of metal and this serves as the handle for the mace. Placed atop the shaft is the head which is usually always made of some kind of hard metal, though ornamental maces may be grafted from golds and silvers.

The head is designed for bludgeoning, and certain variations of the mace have been known to have spikes on the head to increase the damage the weapon inflicts. The majority of the weight is in the head of the weapon, but the shaft can also be very weighty if made from metal. While wooden shafts are a great deal lighter than metal ones, the wood can be cut with a large enough sword or axe. The weight of a metal shaft and head make this weapon exceptionally slow in combat, and as such they are commonly used by more muscular individuals.

Description
The first maces were originally created with the idea of the club in mind. Made from bones and wood, and wood the clubs were used to crush limbs, and crack skulls of an animals while hunting or in preparation for the cooking of the animal. Many used this as a weapon and tool for hunting as it was easy to make, and could be easily carried due to it's light weight. As metal weaponry grew more and more prominent, armours grew more popular amongst the people. Against armoured opponents, The use of regular stabbing and slashing weapons proved useless if the opponent was well armoured. In response to this the first metal club was created. The name given to this weapon was the mace, and in this way armoured knights became less of a threat on the battlefield.

« Last Edit: 25 August 2009, 02:08:49 by Seeker » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: 25 August 2009, 02:15:33 »

Regarding the Morningstar.  You may want to indicate the head of the morningstar may be fixed to the shaft or it may be attached to the shaft via a chain. 
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Thodin Coldflame Lomin
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« Reply #10 on: 25 August 2009, 04:37:05 »

lol That's a common misconception Seeker. The spiked head attached by a chain is commonly referred to as a flail or dire flail, and I think that would fall more under flexible weapons, or miscellaneous weaponry than an actual Mace.
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« Reply #11 on: 25 August 2009, 06:49:43 »

  • CudgleCudgel
The cudglecudgel is easily capable of being confused with a walking staff, but is by no means any weaker than any other club. The top is lightly knotted for strength, but at times metal rings are usually bonded to the head of the weapon to increase the amount of pain it can inflict. This particular weapon is very popular amongst peasants, and can be easily used by anyone. It's light weight makes it a choice weapon for wanderers and travelers who move about dark roads at night. The cudgel is an exceptional weapon, and many prefer it to carrying around in comparison to larger clubs when out in the open.

In all the dictionaries I've found (UK, USA, Australian) it is spelled Cudgel, not Cudgle.
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« Reply #12 on: 25 August 2009, 07:06:01 »

Thanks for pointing that out Dek, for some reason my spell check was acting up :P. I've edited it so it should be good now. thumbup
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« Reply #13 on: 26 August 2009, 02:52:14 »

Some notes:

- The first paragraph is in the past tense while the rest continues on in present tense. So that should be fixed, as in Santharia we're still using these weapons.

- "Placed a top the shaft is the head" should read "Places on top..." methinks...

- Something that occurred to me is the fact that many sceptres look like maces. I don't know if there's any direct relation to that (didn't find any on a quick search), but this could very well be the case in Caelereth - that sceptres stand for power over people, and that the mace is the symbol that inspired the idea of sceptres. If not fact, it could at least be mentioned somewhere as a side note in the entry.

- A Usage and a Fighting Style section should be added, the was we have it e.g. at the Blunt Weapons entry

- As for the categorization: We're getting a bit into trouble here if you look at the mentioned Blunt Weapons entry, because this entry is overlapping with the Maces Overview. The main problem here is that you interpret the club as a mace and list it here, which is done in the Blunt Weapons entry as well. Sure, the club is basically the first version of the mace, but I guess we could make a distinction here to get things sorted out better.

Basically I'd suggest that we do it like this:

Blunt Weapons

This is the entire group, which is represented as a whole menu in the Compendium at the moment. Yet we also don't have a whole group for swords anymore, but have three main swords categories on the top level (to have them easier accessible):

- Swords, Hand'n'Half
- Swords, One-Handed
- Swords, Two-Handed

In each category we have the Swords entry listed as the main overview entry.

I'd say we do it the same way with Blunt Weapons and split them into three categories:

- Clubs
- Hammers
- Maces

This way the Blunt Weapons entry can stay as it is.

Maces

The Maces entry is then the entry equivalent to the Swords entry. It basically deals with the various kinds of maces, so I'd suggest to stick to

- Light Maces
- Medium Maces
- Heavy Maces

That clubs are seen by many as types of maces you can of course mention in the maces entry, but I'd keep the category distinction, so that we don't have to change all entries. Everything that's a minor mace-like weapon has its own "Clubs" category.

Important is that the listing of the specific weapons shouldn't be in the Maces Overview entry, here you should basically explain the differences between the subtyes (similar to the Blunt Weapons overview). So you'd need to explain what's a "Light Mace", a "Medium Mace" and a "Heavy Mace" in a paragraph or so.

Overviews

What you now have as single weapons per type would then be moved into own overview pages (see e.g. the One-Handed Swords page), and the Clubs would be in their own category as mentioned above.

Get the idea, Thodin? - Just trying to keep organization somewhat consistent ;)
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« Reply #14 on: 26 August 2009, 04:12:44 »

Alright for some reason I completely missed Seekers large paragraph on what I need to fix so I must apologize for not paying better attention. I'll be fixing it up so thank you for the comments Seeker, and Artimidor :)

As to your primary inquiry Seeker, I'd like to say that maces are themselves a weapon, and clubs are another kind. I'm not using Maces in the first paragraph as a collective term, but more to illustrate the use that the mace is put to in today's world. You could say that bone, wood, and stone clubs were the building blocks for the ordinary battle mace. For example, the original purpose for the axe was to chop timber but it eventually became a weapon, I'd meant for the idea to be similar so forgive me for not being clear on that. :(

@ Artimidor: So basically I need to add a Usage and Fighting Style Section, get rid off the Clubs and for each Type of Mace I need to write a kind of Mini-Overview. To be honest I meant for all of this to be more like the Swords of Caelereth entry. I have to ask if it would be possible to "borrow" the Usage and Fighting Style Section from the Blunt Weaponry entry? I'm a little bit confused so if you could expand on what you want me to do because I feel that I may have strayed from your original idea.
« Last Edit: 26 August 2009, 04:42:13 by Thodin Coldflame Lomin » Logged
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