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Author Topic: Ash'Mari men religion section  (Read 14113 times)
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Alexandre Scriabin
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« on: 16 November 2010, 06:26:41 »

For the religion:

OVERVIEW: The Ash'mari religion predicates itself upon a history of violence. Dynamic in that history is the Burning Night (the fall of the Mynian Empire), which stoked an independent group of barbarians and allowed them to develop alone as they searched for a home. As they migrated from the current dwelling of the Losh'oc to the Hovel Frond forest, they became increasingly isolationist and accumulated rather different values than their Kuglimz kinsmen.

Initially, they were just seen as more feral than their other kin. And then things escalated when they were enslaved by the Diorye'oleal elves and attacked the other Kuglimz. Soon, their beliefs were almost entirely irrespective of the other Kuglimz.


PREVALENCE- Rather than being based upon pious worship of token deities, as it customarily is with other religions, the Ash'mari religion is more of a derivation of their culture than it is a pursuit of sanctity and greater knowledge. There is no class of the religious elite, no building designated for worship, and only a few rituals are done, at festival times or before a raid.

BELIEF OUTLINES- Essentially, they don't believe in anything other than unadulterated violence. There are no relative values such as good and bad, and they don't hold anything of a hope in their gods, that there is something to look forward to. All they can place their hope in is strife. To get ahead, they must embrace conflict.

There are a scant few pithy sayings that have been recorded over the years from what little contact has been had. These characterize their beliefs, and are as such:

"It is me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me, my brother and my cousin against my folk, and me and my folk against the world."

Likewise, their gods are characters that are the manifest form of these certain values they are looking after in order to survive. Rather than thinking about their enemies during battle, their prey during the hunt, and their kind when the spoils are divided, they value conforming to their god's personalities in these situations, and feel that if they meet their demands with feral hunting, violent war making, and greedy pillaging, that they can live longer by meriting divine favor. There is no skill or ability involved in their minds. Only the state of either having favor or not having it.

If anything, however, they are more immediately concerned with their masters: the Diorye'oleal elves. Because of their impressive feats of magic, the Ash'mari consider them a race of lesser gods (the third and lowest tier of deities), and hang on their every word. When the Dioyre'oleal send them to war, the Ash'mari relish the act. And when the Diorye'oleal delegate their slaves to do manual labor, the Ash'mari relish the act equally.

THE ASH'MARI PANTHEON-

Greatest:

The great goddess named Seitre'otorm, which means "tongue like snake", represents fertility, and manipulation. She illustrates to young Ash'mari that womenfolk can be like a two-edged blade.


The great god named Ian'fa, not being a name like we might think of it, but a statement saying "we are descendants of the man," represents divine providence. While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct, Ian'fa is the reason that they live as long as they get to live. He is attributed with the creation and delegation of the three lesser gods over the Dioyre'oleal elves, and by extension over the Ash'mari.

Greater:

The name Ash'fa, meaning "the fierce man", represents war and conquest, and demands that much blood be spilled in order to quell his wrath.

The name Mari'put, "the blood/bane wolf", is the feral wolf who kills his enemies without clothing or shield, and demands that they hunt their prey in the same manner.

The name Fau'taug, "the feasting man", is a glutton who relishes in the appropriated goods of his fallen enemies and kinsmen, and demands that they fight each other with rigor and gusto for and over the spoils of their conquests.

The Prophet/Puppet:


The name Dirg'mari, meaning "the leader of the wolves/Ash'mari", was the first leader of the Ash'mari after the burning night. Delegated to the menial labor of governing the Ash'mari for the three "gods", Dirg'mari is today celebrated as a kind of prophet.

The demigods:


The Diorye'oleal elves (Hidden wind elves) are a tribe of dark elves who live in the Hovel Frond Forest. Because of their skills with magic, the Ash'mari serve as their slaves and worship them like a race of minor deities.

ORIGINS- The Ash'mari have only officially committed a few things to memory, because of their relatively scanty oral tradition. As such, the only things memorable enough for them to recollect after the burning night was that their All-Mother and All-Father physically died protecting them from Orcs, and now preside over their three Gods (Ash'fa, Mari'put and Fau'taug) and Prophet (Dirg'mari).

Modern compendium charters and scholars have suggested that we think of the three lesser Ash'mari gods as the first leaders of the war bands (Ash'fa), of the hunting parties (Mari'put), and of the distribution of pillaged goods (Fau'taug), who delegated the menial labor of governing the Ash'mari to Dirg'mari. This has been supposed because the Ash'mari do not worship Dirg'mari as if he was a deity, and the compendium scholars believe the Ash'mari have a tendency to behave in such a manner politically and socially, which is supported by the frequency with which the barbarians fight over the right to rule.

For Ash'fa:

Ash'fa translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the fierce man". Together with Mari'put and Fau'taug, Ash'fa is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Ash'fa took a leading role in the war bands, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- Being a particularly awesome visage, Ash'fa stands at a height of 2 peds 7 fores, and is made of burnished iron and bronze, sparkling and still hot to the touch. His humanoid body is featureless, aside from the slits he has for nasal openings, eyes, and lips.

And, similar to a waterfall wasting away water into an empty abyss, Ash'fa is portrayed drinking tankard after tankard of blood perched upon his granite throne, far above the trees of Hovel Frond.

IMPORTANCE- High atop the trees, sitting upon his granite throne, Ash'fa exhorts and coerces the Ash'mari to spill more and more blood for his enjoyment. So greedy is he, for fresh blood, that he punishes  the barbarians (most often with disease and various political reasons for death) if they don't spill as much blood as they can while pitched in battle.

For Mari'put-

Mari'put translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the blood\bane wolf". Together with Ash'fa and Fau'taug, Mari'put is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Ash'fa took a leading role in the hunting parties, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- There is no worldly conception of how he looks other than that his kin, the wolves of Hovel Frond, are each lesser likenesses of him and his feral predilection. He has never made an appearance in the forest, and the Ash'mari suppose that Mari'put is off hunting in the great void that they overheard their masters speaking of.

IMPORTANCE- Off hunting alone and unclothed in the great void, ripping his prey apart and parading their entrails and private parts about, Ash'fa demands that the Ash'mari hunt like his wolves. If any Ash'mari were to wear armor or protect himself with a shield during combat, he would be doomed to die from the very same blade he wants protection from. So, the moral of the story is that they had better get thick hides and get them quick.

For Fau'taug-

Fau'taug translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the feasting man". Together with Ash'fa and Mari'put, Fau'taug is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Fau'taug used every means necessary, from freshly forged blades and hidden pikes around his dwelling place, to accrue more and more plunder and protect his own goods from everyone else in the tribe, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- Manifesting himself as a gluttonous mass of flesh and hair, his humanity is barely discernible underneath the folds of fat that dominate his figure. Fau'taug is often depicted as trying to appropriate any little earring, dagger, cup, eating utensil, uneaten scrap of meat, or trinket he can find in the hands of an unwary barbarian.

IMPORTANCE- Fau'taug slinks across the forest floor, his oily flesh masking the noise of his movement, and steals without reservation or inhibition. At the least, he demands that a proper fight be had every time the barbarians consider what to do with the spoils of their conquests.

For Sur'tyan:

Sur'tyan translates from the barbarian tongue into All Father. Together with His help-meat Lier'tyan, He is the supreme God of the Ash'mari. Before the Burning Night, He was physically present as their chief, and left them with their Gods and Prophet to protect them as they went in search of a new home.

APPEARANCE- Much like an older leader of the pack, Sur'tyan is a normal sized barbarian, with a luxurious white beard signifying age and wisdom, and a musclebound body signifying vitality and power.

He is depicted most in his hall, drinking from a tankard of ale, with the mounted heads of beast, orc, elf, dwarf, and man alike strewn around him.

IMPORTANCE- Ian'fa serves manifold purposes:

He is the ruler of the heavens, and Caelereth is under His dominion. His wife, being empathetic, pestered Him to help the barbarian folk down at ground level, and He saw they were having trouble with the orcs. Not wanting to waste His time with them, He drew up a large ball of fire into the sky so that they could see more than a couple of feet in front of them, and figured that would do.

The wife continued on with Her concerns, and eventually went down to the Ash'mari. While a bit disgruntled, He figured He would make strong men out of them anyway, and built a great kingdom of barbarian folk. He taught them how to fight, taught them how to hunt, and taught them masonry to build a Great Hall (which their Great Hall in Hovel Frond is a "faithful replica" of their first Great Hall).

The jealous orcs

For Seitre'otorm:

« Last Edit: 30 January 2013, 16:50:17 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 16 November 2010, 07:22:48 »

The big question is what kinds of gods to the Ash'mari worship. Like the other Kuglimz before their fall, the Ash'mari worshiped Sur'tyan and Lier'tyan. Another question, secondary to this, is how do the barbarians' overseers worship (the Diorye'oleal?) Did the Ash'mari have a blend of religions over time with the dark elves? Or did the Ash'mari develop their own unique worship?

I would advise against creating an entirely new pantheon of gods at this time. It is tempting, but perhaps instead take the Kuglimz pantheon and twist them into something far darker and violent. It gives a consistent picture overall of the tribes' fall into something opposite the proud Kuglimz from which they came.

When I created the Kaaer, they initially adopted a mix of Kuglimz and Orcen worship. However, I abandoned that in favor of a more nature-centric culture with elven influences. As I backward develop the Osther-Oc (who originally were of a different religion anyway) and mix with the as yet undeveloped Antislar, I will merge the To'ava with those two tribes to create a similar picture of religions between the three.

Tattooing is a big part of Ash'mari culture and will hold significant religious meaning to them. Likely they revere war, conquest and violence. But also keep in mind that the dark elves drive them to such ends, and the Ash'mari may not have always been that way. The dark elves probably brain washed the poor Ash'mari into thinking their Kuglimz ancestors disowned them, or belittled them somehow, and used that to drive a wedge in the Ash'mari loyalties.

The tribe as a whole would have to begin developing a way to become independent at some point in their life. Being submissive to the dark elves forever is not something any culture is willing to do. As you work on the religion, try to keep in mind the tribe overall in development because likely you'll want to change the culture in some ways too.
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« Reply #2 on: 16 November 2010, 07:30:35 »

Some points to start from (considering what Azhira had to say):

1. It really isn't likely that the dark elves would care enough to instill their religion upon the Ash'Mari people. The Ash'Mari are more akin to pets than comrades, so why teach them anything whatsoever about elven thinking? However, the Diorye'oleal themselves could be used as an object of worship. Maybe the Ash'Mari could consider them the lesser gods.

2. The Ash'Mari (as far as I can tell), started out as the Gor'mari clan of the Kuglimz, so it would be appropriate to use the Kuglimz as a reference point for the Ash'Mari. And like you said, Azhira, it would be the most fitting to use the Kuglimz pantheon of gods.

3. The Ash'Mari, more so than any other Kuglimz people, are very antisocial, barbaric, and simplistic. Considering that, their beliefs and demeanor shouldn't be as varied and complicated as the rest of the Kuglimz (even though Kuglimz beliefs aren't all that varied and complicated in the first place). Moreover, I do agree with Azhira here that their view of the gods should be manipulated into something more primal and violent.

4. As for how they worship, I am confident that there should be nothing involved in Ash'Mari worship other than tattoo rites, leadership squabbles, and being as violent and gruesome as possible when dispatching of one's enemies during war.
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« Reply #3 on: 16 November 2010, 07:37:57 »

Quote
The dark elves probably brain washed the poor Ash'mari into thinking their Kuglimz ancestors disowned them, or belittled them somehow, and used that to drive a wedge in the Ash'mari loyalties.

Actually, it says in the history of the Ash'Mari that one leader left his clan and met the dark elves, and then returned to the elves with his people. It's doubtful they would have brainwashed him into thinking they were disowned by the Kuglimz (seeing as they were still Kuglimz at that point, and separated with them of their own volition, however perverted it was by the dark elves), but he could have been influenced into worshiping the dark elves as lesser gods.
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« Reply #4 on: 16 November 2010, 08:30:33 »

This matriarchal worship of the All-Mother as some Goddess who took compassion upon the men of Caelereth, and the All-Father who listened to his wife's pleading and went with her to the Kuglimz in human form: it definitely needs to be twisted into something different. If the Ash'Mari were loathe to worship the All-Mother, and didn't think of the All-Father in the same way as the other Kuglimz, it would make for a good explanation of the peoples separating from one another.
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« Reply #5 on: 17 November 2010, 05:33:18 »

Some thoughts on Gods for barbarians: The Ash'mari developed from Kuglimz, and looking at the Kuglimz, their Gods Sur'Tyan and Lier'Tyan were actually people. They were rulers of the kingdom and were idolized, became mythical figures who were eventually worshipped as Gods (we'll take a very similar approach with the Santharian Twelvern religion eventually BTW).

While the Kuglimz became more noble in general by developing a proper cavalry etc., the Ash'mari obviously didn't fare so well. They were corrupted and even attacked the Kuglimz later on. In the Ash'mari entry we mainly find:

Quote
In time they grew closer to the darkness that was the Hovel Frond and forsook many of the Kuglimz ways. They fell away from their gods Sur'tyan and Lier'tyan and started to worship bloodthirsty gods.

It could be that what the Kuglimz did when they developed their religion could also have happened to the Ash'mari, who were not so much interested in spirituality, but in the might of men who can rule them. So maybe they also worship "Gods" that developed from leaders. Maybe some managed to acquire powers from the Dior'ye'oleal that make them different, so that they must appear to their more primitive brethren as Gods.

Also: Barbarians in general aren't that organized, so it could be that they formed several different clans, sub-tribes etc., and that they therefore also worshipped different Gods, because it all fell pretty much apart as far as consistent structures were concerned. For barbarians it was more important to be strong and able to survive, and the bond with the dark elves probably was very important to them, gave them also self-confidence if the elves provided some powers for key members, so that they could set out and conquer on their own. So maybe there's also a religious linkage there.
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« Reply #6 on: 17 November 2010, 13:58:49 »

Yes, we should probably start it off by making them a Vir'tog and detailing how it is was that their Vir'tog affected them. Considering the fact that some of the other Kuglimz clan's namesakes are their Vir'tog, I would suggest that we name the Ash'mari Vir'tog "Dirg'mari" (which I believe Dirg'mari would mean "leader wolf" in their tongue).

A rudimentary description of this Dirg'mari:

The deity Dirg'mari is a personification of everything feral, and as an alleged leader of the Ash'mari during their initial exodus, he ruled with martial force. He taught them to recognize the three true deities that would dominate their culture- the hunt, the kill, and the spoils.
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« Reply #7 on: 17 November 2010, 14:25:43 »

Actually, due to Kuglimz grammatical structure, Dirg'mari would translate as "wolf leader" not "leader wolf". Our grammar structure, the reverse of the Southern pattern is.

A nit-picky point it is, but perhaps the Ash'mari would similarly speak?  Admit it we Kuglimz would prefer not to, but distantly related to us they are. :-)


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« Reply #8 on: 17 November 2010, 14:45:04 »

I should note, hopefully clarifyingly, that by the laws of Tharian grammar, the word which comes FIRST modifies the other.  So a 'wolf leader' is one who leads the wolves (not necessarily a wolf himself, and 'wolves' could also be metaphorical), while a 'leader wolf' must be a) a wolf and b) in charge of and guiding wolves.   By the laws of Kuglimz, the exact reverse is true.

   They also reverse, as you can see from Alysse's sentence structure (boy, that would be hard to say with a lisp!) other grammatical constructions which Tharian/English takes for granted. I think putting the verb at the end is one typical pattern, for example.
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« Reply #9 on: 17 November 2010, 14:55:28 »

PREVALENCE- Rather than being based upon pious worship of token deities, as it customarily is with other religions, the Ash'mari religion is more of a derivation for their culture than it is a pursuit of sanctity and greater knowledge. There is no class of the religious elite, no building designated for worship, and only a few rituals are done on occasion to substantiate their religion, which include the Taug'fa'yale ("Burning Man Feast"), Taug'put ("Blood Feast"), and Taug'dirg ("Leader's Feast").

BELIEF OUTLINES- From a philosophical standpoint, they don't believe in anything other than unadulterated violence. There are no relative values such as good and bad, and they don't hold anything of a hope in their gods that there is something to look forward to.

Likewise, their gods are characters that represent certain values they are looking after in order to survive. Ash'fa (the fierce man) represents war and conquest, and demands that much blood be spilled in order to quell his wrath. Mari'put (the blood/bane wolf) is the feral wolf who kills him enemies without clothing or shield, and demands that they hunt their prey in the same manner. Fau'taug (the feasting man) is a glutton who relishes in the appropriated goods of his fallen enemies, and demands that they fight each other with rigor and gusto over the spoils of their conquests. Moreover, rather than thinking about their enemies during battle, they look to the gods to determine whether or not they live or die, and feel that if they meet their demands with feral hunting, violent war making, and greedy pillaging, that they can live longer.

If anything, however, they are more immediately concerned with their masters: the Diorye'oleal elves. Because of their impressive feats of magic, the Ash'mari consider them lesser gods, and hang on their every word. When the Dioyre'oleal send them to war, the Ash'mari relish the act. And when the Diorye'oleal delegate their slaves to do manual labor, the Ash'mari relish the act equally.

ORIGINS- The Ash'mari have no recollection of fall of the Mynian Empire, because of their lack of oral tradition. As such, the only thing memorable enough for them to recollect after the burning night was their first leader, the Vir'tog named Dirg'mari, and how he brought them to their new territory and taught them about the gods.

Edit: Dirg'mari, as an important figure in the thinking of the Ash'mari, is not actually seen as a god. Rather, they look to him as a mighty teacher and the benchmark for the leaders after him.
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« Reply #10 on: 17 November 2010, 14:57:38 »

Actually, due to Kuglimz grammatical structure, Dirg'mari would translate as "wolf leader" not "leader wolf". Our grammar structure, the reverse of the Southern pattern is.

A nit-picky point it is, but perhaps the Ash'mari would similarly speak?  Admit it we Kuglimz would prefer not to, but distantly related to us they are. :-)


Alysse the Likely


No, I agree with you. However, "wolf leader" and "leader wolf" work in much the same way, so if you folks are okay with it, I'd like to stick with the name Dirg'mari.
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« Reply #11 on: 18 November 2010, 07:12:12 »

Quote
Some thoughts on Gods for barbarians: The Ash'mari developed from Kuglimz, and looking at the Kuglimz, their Gods Sur'Tyan and Lier'Tyan were actually people. They were rulers of the kingdom and were idolized, became mythical figures who were eventually worshipped as Gods (we'll take a very similar approach with the Santharian Twelvern religion eventually BTW).

What Arti said here is important. The foundation of the human belief system is largely based on the concept of powerful humans ascending to godhood (the Osther-Oc orcs also take a similar view). Until recently, the elven and human basis of the gods were not developed, but now the general basis is human becomes powerful and becomes god. And, human gods are more in-tune and involved with their mortal worshipers than elven ones.
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« Reply #12 on: 18 November 2010, 08:01:38 »

So basically, Azhira, you are saying that we need to make a historical basis for all of this? It wouldn't be all that difficult to bring in the new Vir'tog, but I'm guessing you'll want me to make a historic precedent for the three deities as well.
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« Reply #13 on: 18 November 2010, 08:34:52 »

I'd suggest you start with the Vir'tog, since the historical precedent for that is already in the Kuglimz belief entry.  We can always expand upon the original information later on.  I'm not trying to shut you down here, but unless you narrow your focus a little, you may find the entry starting to get unmanageably large and you might begin to feel overwhelmed.

I think the name Dirg'mari is fine.  thumbup  I just thought I'd mention that little idiosyncrasy of the language so you could start with the right set of rules, especially when you are thinking of names for people and places.   It always helps to know these little details. 

Hope this helps.   Let me know if you have any questions.


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« Reply #14 on: 18 November 2010, 10:29:53 »

I'd suggest you start with the Vir'tog, since the historical precedent for that is already in the Kuglimz belief entry.  We can always expand upon the original information later on.  I'm not trying to shut you down here, but unless you narrow your focus a little, you may find the entry starting to get unmanageably large and you might begin to feel overwhelmed.

I think the name Dirg'mari is fine.  thumbup  I just thought I'd mention that little idiosyncrasy of the language so you could start with the right set of rules, especially when you are thinking of names for people and places.   It always helps to know these little details.  

Hope this helps.   Let me know if you have any questions.


Alysse the Likely

I'm sorry, but you have confused me a bit here. I didn't mean to imply that I was going to start with the three war deities, rather than the Vir'tog. Are you meaning to say that I should put off doing any more work on the deities and just draft a history of Dirg'mari's exploits?
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F
26 March 2017, 12:48:56
Hello to anyone that might read this. :)
22 December 2016, 02:38:16
Merry Christmas everyone!
29 November 2016, 01:45:48
Hey all!
11 November 2016, 09:19:02
Calling all developers; come help me write the New-Santhala article ^^
15 September 2016, 02:24:10
Still no problems here, Erutan...
14 September 2016, 14:55:28
Still having trouble accessing the RPG side, anyone else? Or is it just me?
27 August 2016, 21:17:33
Short note: We had a bit of downtime Friday/Saturday night due to a server change. Site went online first, message boards took a while longer - now everything should be back to normal.
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