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Author Topic: Ash'Mari men religion section  (Read 14111 times)
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #15 on: 18 November 2010, 12:24:30 »

Oh, Alexandre, I'm sorry.  I wasn't trying to confuse you, or tell you what you should or shouldn`t do.  I  just wanted to caution you against taking on too big a bite for your first project.  Occasionally an ambitious or enthusiastic newbie (and some of us older developers, too!) will jump in a little too deep, too soon and then realize that the scope of the project is beyond them, get discouraged and have trouble finishing it.   I didn`t want that to happen to you.  I like your intelligent writing style and I can`t wait to see what you do with the Ash`mari!


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« Reply #16 on: 19 November 2010, 09:22:39 »

Duly noted.
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« Reply #17 on: 20 November 2010, 02:18:36 »

Actually, come to think of it, it would be best to make separate entries for the whole religion, it's individual deities, and the Ash'mari Vir'tog. That way, I don't have to try to fit every little detail into one entry, and I don't bite off more than I can chew all at once.
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« Reply #18 on: 28 November 2010, 11:22:33 »

Alexandre, typically, it makes it easier for all concerned if you put what you put into your most recent post in this thread into the first one of the thread, much like with CDs over in the rping side of the site, and then just make a brief note telling us you're looking for comments.
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« Reply #19 on: 28 November 2010, 13:30:40 »

Alexandre, typically, it makes it easier for all concerned if you put what you put into your most recent post in this thread into the first one of the thread, much like with CDs over in the rping side of the site, and then just make a brief note telling us you're looking for comments.

Sorry if I confused you there. I actually put up the pencil icon to let people know I'm still working on the entry. And yes, I do see why I would need to put all of that in the first post, and I'll go ahead and do that now. Thanks Dek.
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Johannes Brahms
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« Reply #20 on: 28 November 2010, 14:42:29 »

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I would advise against creating an entirely new pantheon of gods at this time. It is tempting, but perhaps instead take the Kuglimz pantheon and twist them into something far darker and violent. It gives a consistent picture overall of the tribes' fall into something opposite the proud Kuglimz from which they came.

Looking back at your initial comments, I do hope you are okay with the direction that this entry has taken according to my volition.

By the way, everyone, I have finished with my work on the entry and am now ready for comments.
« Last Edit: 28 November 2010, 14:47:42 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: 07 December 2010, 16:03:20 »

Well, it's been the better part of two weeks, so I thought I'd bump this thread to see if anyone has any time to keep this entry going.
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« Reply #22 on: 07 December 2010, 17:18:53 »

Alexandre, a short feed back only for ow, I'm a bit busy.

Overall it looks good! :)

I understood that this should go into the entry of this tribe itself - then you don't need the headings like prevalence etc, otherwise you have more headings than text.

It is described a bit lop-sided (?), not even black and white, just black. You are describing these people as utter bad with not much hope for living. I know, this is laid out in the tribe's entry, but this entry is old and maybe you could bring there something more sophisticated in. The connection to the Diorye'oleal is only loose, no hint, that they are responsible for that twisted tribe or why, apart from holding them as slaves. There is not much of the Kuglimz ancestry left.

Don't misunderstand me, this tribe is the dark brother of the Kuglimz and it has to have dark, bloody habits and customs, but now I see only the worst possible scenario. You can only show the shadow, if there is somewhere light.

Now these people are outright evil, but I would like to see, where from this comes and why.

You don't need to expand on the amount of stuff you have here (the number of words), that's enough, just twist it a bit ;)
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #23 on: 08 December 2010, 01:23:20 »

Hello, Alexandre!

Since the Ashmari are distantly connected to the Kuglimz people, I'd like to see some similarity.  Perhaps you could add in the All-Father and All-Mother as the parents of your three gods?  You could say that they had three sons, who became the gods you describe.  But the presence of a female goddess is VERY important in the Kuglimz religious beliefs, so I can't see her role being extinguished completely like this.  I think of the Ashmari religious beliefs  as being like a cult based very loosely on the

Just a bit of background here:

Family and tribe is of the primal importance to the Kuglimz peoples, whether nomadic or not.  The mother is seen as being the heart of the family, for she is the life-giver, the child-bearer.   Thus Lier'tyan, the All-Mother, is a crucial figure for them.  You can change her nature, make her a "darker" goddess (a good RL example might be the Spartan mothers, who would tell their sons departing for war to "come home with your shield or on it!", ( i.e. I'd rather see you come home dead than dishonoured.)  But I don't think you should eliminate her or Sur'tyan, the All-father either. If you put them in as the parents of your three, they can quickly be relegated to a minor role without being completely wiped out.

What do you think?  Is that workable?
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« Reply #24 on: 08 December 2010, 03:16:13 »

I agree with Alysse. I had advised before not to create an entirely new pantheon, but to base the gods on the Kuglimz'. I think others have said it too.
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« Reply #25 on: 08 December 2010, 09:34:19 »

All right. So it's back to the drawing board, then.
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« Reply #26 on: 14 December 2010, 14:59:50 »

In the new light I set it in (which I made my new alterations in green), it is assumed from the context that the All Mother and All Father both condone and support the behavior of the three lesser gods (seeing as they do preside over them and Sur'tran is a providential figure who rewards them with life for complying with the lesser gods), so I think I reinterpreted it as requested.
« Last Edit: 14 December 2010, 15:02:58 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: 14 December 2010, 20:18:53 »

Alexandre, sorry, but in my opinion that does not fit.

Somebody who is called All-mother and All-father would not condone or support the three lesser gods. This does not fit how they are described. You should not add more attributes to those two old gods, change them considerably, if not really necessary, and I don't see you revising these two right now.

I would more go in the direction, that the Ash'mari feel, that those two gods have abandoned them and therefore searched for somebody else, or they changed their old belief around somehow. Without creating an entirely new pantheon.

Maybe you could go another way. What if they still belief in the existence of those Kuglimz gods, but don't venerate them, don't worship them?

Quote
They fell away from their gods Sur'tyan and Lier'tyan  and started to worship bloodthirsty gods.

These gods could be originated from dark elven leaders, without many godly attributes, but more like overly strong elves? Maybe they could even die, and be replaced by other, younger gods? Just an idea to not get again a pantheon, just this time an evil one.

 
I fear a major rewrite and rethinkingis necessary, Alexandre, but wait till you start for Azhira and Alysse.
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« Reply #28 on: 14 December 2010, 22:19:24 »

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I would more go in the direction, that the Ash'mari feel, that those two gods have abandoned them and therefore searched for somebody else, or they changed their old belief around somehow. Without creating an entirely new pantheon.

With all due respect, it feels as if you have suggested this based upon preference, rather than necessity. In doing what I did, I twisted their perspective on the All Mother and All Father, as requested by Azhira (I believe), and wrapped everything into a neat package. While it may be necessary for me to provide detail at length about them (just like I did with the three lesser gods), it does not appear to be necessary to divorce them from the Ash'mari other than for a patronage of one person's artistic license or another person's artistic license.

So, to simplify what I just said:

I can see why you feel that way, and value your preference because you are certainly a more experienced Santharian developer than myself. However, I do not see the logic behind your request, other than that you may want one of those alterations to be made according to your preference, or artistic license (and I am not saying that you are being pushy or overly unreasonable).

Now, there is only one part of the original entry that states that the Ash'mari deviated from worshiping the All Mother and All Father (the passage you quoted). Is this why it is necessary to divorce them from the All Mother and All Father?

Edit: On second thought, our problem here may stem from the fact that I haven't given them the same treatment as the three lesser gods (with their own at-length sections), and thus you assumed that we would have to go off of the original entries on those two rather than an Ash'mari interpretation, as suggested?

Moreover, I don't intend to point fingers or be argumentative. I would simply like a clarification about what exactly the issue is here (you see, it may be more my fault than yours, in that I didn't fully comprehend your last comments).
« Last Edit: 14 December 2010, 22:25:45 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: 14 December 2010, 23:35:42 »

That was a proposal, Alexandre. And as Isaid, wait for Azhira and Alysse.

Of course one could argue, that the Ash'mari are now a different tribe and that they see the Allmother and Allfather this way. (But it is not a derivation from what we have, at least not in the line they were meant to be. You added there something.)

Drogo is not longer here to say his opinion, but I would be quite annoyed, if somebody would twist my Baveras in a direction which is not in the line of what I had intended for her, even if it would be a 'dark human tribe' who did that. Or some evil pirates.

---> Azhira, Alysse
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