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Author Topic: Ash'Mari men religion section  (Read 14117 times)
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Alexandre Scriabin
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« Reply #30 on: 15 December 2010, 05:01:54 »

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Drogo is not longer here to say his opinion, but I would be quite annoyed, if somebody would twist my Baveras in a direction which is not in the line of what I had intended for her, even if it would be a 'dark human tribe' who did that. Or some evil pirates.

I thought the objective here was to twist the material towards Drogo's entry.

But yes, I do wish he was around to have his say. Probably all of us would really like to hear his opinion about now.
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Johannes Brahms
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« Reply #31 on: 15 December 2010, 08:33:36 »

Actually, though I haven't the time to read it in detail, I do think this is better.  With perhaps a few minor tweaks, I think it could work.  Perhaps the names could suggest some of the Dark elven influence.  It is likely that the Ashmari tribe does not speak "pure" Kuglimz'seitre anymore--the language will have changed and degraded, probably blended with some of the elven terms, etc--they will probably speak what we might consider to be a very distorted dialect.  But that's a minor point and can wait for our elven language experts.  I'd like to hear Azhira's perspective on your revisions too.

I meant to re-read the previous entries on the site so I can get a better feel for what the the original developer might have wanted.  But what with preparing for the Christmas rush at work, trying to arrange three family get-togethers and being hospitalized for something called epiploic appendagitis, I've been a little rushed for time.  I'll try to stay on top of this a bit better.


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« Reply #32 on: 15 December 2010, 13:40:24 »

If you have that much on your plate, Alysse, I wouldn't give myself a second thought until everything is taken care of.

By the way, thanks for your help so far, everyone.
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« Reply #33 on: 19 December 2010, 15:24:06 »

The better part of a week has passed, so I'm guessing we won't be able to hear from Azhira this time. So, if you folks who have been part of the process here would have a final say (and either lay down the law or agree to some of my ideas), I'd appreciate one last judgment call so that I can get to working on this entry again.
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« Reply #34 on: 20 December 2010, 10:16:24 »

Well, I've read over what you have and I'd like to give you the go-ahead to keep working on this.  There will be plenty of opportunity to change and adjust things as needed, but right now there is not a lot of material to comment on.  You obviously have some ideas about where you want to go with these, and I'd like to hear them. You're not proposing to change the Kuglimz religion, after all, but to develop a sort of cult version very loosely based on it.  So I think that will work. 
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« Reply #35 on: 20 December 2010, 10:55:33 »

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Well, I've read over what you have and I'd like to give you the go-ahead to keep working on this.

Okay, I'll get to describing this new version of the All Mother and All Father, then.

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You obviously have some ideas about where you want to go with these, and I'd like to hear them. You're not proposing to change the Kuglimz religion, after all, but to develop a sort of cult version very loosely based on it.  So I think that will work.

Precisely. So, when I describe them and their relationship with the three lesser gods in detail, I'll just have to see what you think about my ideas.
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« Reply #36 on: 20 December 2010, 11:50:33 »

Sorry for my lack of comment. I don't have any solid arguments against what you are trying to do here, Alex. So I am with Alysse in that you can go ahead and continue. Changes can be made as you work if we find something to flag. New religions are fun to do especially with little developed tribes like the Ash'mari. My To'ava'yarna religion was something completely new, but not something unique on its own, because it will eventually connect with Antislar and Osther-Oc religions.
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« Reply #37 on: 21 December 2010, 07:58:23 »

Sorry for my lack of comment. I don't have any solid arguments against what you are trying to do here, Alex. So I am with Alysse in that you can go ahead and continue. Changes can be made as you work if we find something to flag. New religions are fun to do especially with little developed tribes like the Ash'mari. My To'ava'yarna religion was something completely new, but not something unique on its own, because it will eventually connect with Antislar and Osther-Oc religions.

Ya, and from what I've seen the folks around the Mists don't have much in the way of developed religions either. I thought I'd zero in on that after this.

So, I'll get to work on this soon, and we'll see where to go from there.
« Last Edit: 21 December 2010, 09:40:21 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: 21 December 2010, 23:30:29 »

You are only writing the addition to the tribe entry, not an extra submission on the religion itself, or am I wrong here? for the tribe entry itself it hasn't be so long and doesn't need the subtitles like  Prevalence and Belief outlines. It should more be like a summary of an religion entry.

I know, Alysse and Azhira think how you translate Lier'tyan (the All-Mother) and Sur'tyan (the All Father) over in the new religion, I think it is not ok.

The entry clearly states, that :

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They fell away from their gods Sur'tyan and Lier'tyan and started to worship bloodthirsty gods.

For that means, that they do not exist anymore in their pantheon.

To be still in the tradition of the Kuglimz, though distinct from them, you could transfer other things like :

They have two major gods - one for personal things, one for the conservation / destruction of the world.

Or one for conservation, one for destruction

Then additional ten lesser gods.


Alex, so far I miss in the entry a kind of ,need‘, ,imperative‘, I don‘t know the right word for it:

So far your religion could be placed to every malicious tribe. But why is it the Ash‘marii religion? This is a special tribe and needs a special treatment. Especially here it is necessary to think along the needs of the tribe and not to allow the thoughts to run in any direction. 

Why are your gods as depicted and named as they are?

What I miss most : I do not see the impact of the dark elves.The Ashmarii are now as they are, because they came under the rule and influence of the dark elves. But how does this manifest itself?

I hope I did not disturb you too much. ;)

Don‘t write too much though, not for the addition to the tribe entry. If you want to do more, do an own religious entry.

And no need to hit me now  grin I'm gone and away for the next week anyway!  :P
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« Reply #39 on: 22 December 2010, 06:20:40 »

You are only writing the addition to the tribe entry, not an extra submission on the religion itself, or am I wrong here? for the tribe entry itself it hasn't be so long and doesn't need the subtitles like  Prevalence and Belief outlines. It should more be like a summary of an religion entry.

I know, Alysse and Azhira think how you translate Lier'tyan (the All-Mother) and Sur'tyan (the All Father) over in the new religion, I think it is not ok.

The entry clearly states, that :

For that means, that they do not exist anymore in their pantheon.

To be still in the tradition of the Kuglimz, though distinct from them, you could transfer other things like :

They have two major gods - one for personal things, one for the conservation / destruction of the world.

Or one for conservation, one for destruction

Then additional ten lesser gods.


Alex, so far I miss in the entry a kind of ,need‘, ,imperative‘, I don‘t know the right word for it:

So far your religion could be placed to every malicious tribe. But why is it the Ash‘marii religion? This is a special tribe and needs a special treatment. Especially here it is necessary to think along the needs of the tribe and not to allow the thoughts to run in any direction.  

Why are your gods as depicted and named as they are?

What I miss most : I do not see the impact of the dark elves.The Ashmarii are now as they are, because they came under the rule and influence of the dark elves. But how does this manifest itself?

I hope I did not disturb you too much. ;)

Don‘t write too much though, not for the addition to the tribe entry. If you want to do more, do an own religious entry.

And no need to hit me now  grin I'm gone and away for the next week anyway!  :P


You're right, I've yet to involve the dark elves much in this, other than to pin them down as minor deities. I'll have to think about that, but I have to say that it doesn't necessarily have to factor in. Think about it this way: Why would the dark elves have any concern for the religious beliefs of the Ash'mari? Wouldn't they be docile enough after a display of magic? Would the dark elves really interest themselves in spending time trying to shape the barbarian's religious thinking?

And given your comments about Lier'tyan and Sur'tyan, I think I might just rename them and give them different titles with the Ash'mari. That way I can be more faithful to the original entry (which you pointed out as stating that they don't worship Lier'tyan and Sur'tyan) and still provide an element (the two greater gods who served as king and queen before the burning night) with which Santharian enthusiasts can draw parallels between Ash'mari and other Kuglimz folk.

Edit: So, what say you other folks?
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Johannes Brahms
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« Reply #40 on: 23 December 2010, 11:27:12 »

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So far your religion could be placed to every malicious tribe. But why is it the Ash‘marii religion? This is a special tribe and needs a special treatment. Especially here it is necessary to think along the needs of the tribe and not to allow the thoughts to run in any direction.

Why are your gods as depicted and named as they are?

Ash'fa (I used the entry on Kuglimz'seitre to name the gods, and named him Ash'fa, because apparently it means "fierce man" in their tongue, or something to that extent) presents the reason why they want to spill the maximum possible amount of blood in battle:

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The Ash'mari viewpoint on warfare and the need of libations of blood to the soil restricts what weaponry the barbarians use. No bows or slings are used as the outpouring of blood with such wounds are not enough. Thrown spears and axes are the extent of the ranged weapons used. For close combat the most common weapon is the axe, this is for no other reason then the cuts of the axe allow the most blood to flow and thus appeases their gods even more.

I made the god Mari'put (meaning "blood/bane wolf" in their tongue) to pick up on the undercurrent of respect they have for the wolves of Hovel Frond, and give a reason why they don't wear armor in battle, often don't wear clothing, and never use shields:

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Clothing is actually very minimal, which is surprising given the climate. Warriors when at home or on normal duties are thought to wear untanned fur as use as loinclothes, boots, and cloaks. When in combat many of the same warriors wear nothing, rather giving up any protection of clothing for the protection of their gods.

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Shields are viewed much as clothing in battle is. It is nothing more then a way to take the gods favor away from you by insulting their ability to protect you. If one of the gods wants you to die no matter what amount of armor you wear it will do no good.

Fau'taug (meaning "feasting man" in their tongue) represents the tone I got from these entries:

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Taug'put ("Blood Feast")
This is a one day event that occurs at different times for different warriors. After the first person they kill, they take the body and proceed to slice it open more. This allows them to take their victim's blood and drench their naked form in it. They then proceed to go into isolation for one day and allow the blood to dry upon themselves. This is viewed as the rite of manhood, for by allowing it to dry upon them it has soaked into themselves giving them all of the powers their victim possessed. Many a young warrior falls to an older one in an attempt to take a strong warrior's blood for his first kill as a stronger foe is bound to have stronger blood.

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The Ash'mystrume ("Battle Wolf") is the head of the Ash'mari. He makes all of the decisions as far as the raiding and general practices of the tribe are concerned. Any male can challenge the Ash'mystrume to physical combat, and whomever comes out the victor is the new leader. It is not rare for the elven ruler of the Castle of Darkness to get annoyed with the current leader and simply kill him. Several men who believe they should then lead fight it out and the victor presents himself to the castle as the new Ash'mystrume.

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Animals are plentiful in the area and so food stores are well kept, though it is not too unusual to go a few days without eating. They make up for this by gorging themselves whenever there is an abundance of food. The little grain and vegetable are gotten only when a raid on one of the Kuglimz villages have gone successfully.

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The only well known occupation of the Ash'mari is that of warrior. They seem to be broken up into different categories based upon the number of kills they have. If one has killed more people he tends to go into every raiding party and every war party. Those with less kills get to go far less often. Those with no kills usually have to kill someone with many kills to earn a place in a raiding party. It is thought that the men with few or no kills are used to hunt.

They gorge when food is plentiful, and fight over leadership, respect, and raiding rights, so I assumed that they must fight over goods as well.

Now, I see that you feel that I'm pinning them down too much as savage and completely brutal/evil. Here are some parts of the entry that actually support my views on them:

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The Ash'mari ("Rabid Wolf Tribe") were once of the Kuglimz, but were in time corrupted and then subjugated to the Diorye'oleal. They have little will of their own, rather being used as the martial force of the dark elves. Their reputation as intelligent savages is well earned and they take pleasure in that reputation.

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While this is not true of the Kuglimz or the Kanapans, it most certainly is true of the Ash'mari, and all of the stories told to frighten children are most often true. Generations of use as the Diorye'oleal's rabid hounds have bred out all compulsions of mercy and honor. While not as cruel as their masters, they are certainly the most bloodthirsty of men. Even the orcs of the area have respect for the visciousness of the Ash'mari.

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The Ash'marian coat of arms is a skeletal human skull with an iron axe sunk into it. This is surrounded by a circle of black twisted thorns. The Ash'mari being a very literal people have made their coat of arms such as well. The skull is representative of their foes, which is just about everyone, the axe represents the Ash'mari themselves, while the circle of thorns represents their subjugation to the thorn throne of the Diorye'oleal. As banners are rarely used, actual items are affixed to long poles so that it forms an intimidating standard.

Everything we know about their behavior (brutal), influences (dark elves), and standard (axe driven into a real human skull), points to them being violent and harsh. Just about everything in the entry that points to them either being good or bad, violent or docile and thoughtful, points to them being bad tempered and violent. They fight for the right to govern, the right to be a man, and the right to go raiding.
« Last Edit: 23 December 2010, 15:39:52 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: 31 December 2010, 09:35:02 »

8 days seemed like an appropriate time to see if there was any update to be had. If that's too abrupt, let me know. If RL has you caught up, it's the holidays after all and I hope everyone here has a good time during these few special weeks.
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« Reply #42 on: 07 January 2011, 14:40:33 »

And now another week has passed, I believe. Any information whatsoever would be helpful, and if I'm just being pushy, lay down the law to me. I'm just not sure exactly how things work on this side of the boards.

Also, what with the new year and the awards being decided upon, I can understand why it takes up some time. The same thing happens on the RP boards as well.

Not to mention, Talia said that she would be gone for the next week after she last posted in this thread. That was why I waited 8 days at first, and waited another week until now.
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« Reply #43 on: 07 January 2011, 17:46:06 »

Sorry Alexandre, I know nothing about these guys, so I probably don't have anything useful to suggest with regards to the entry.

It happened like this at this time last year as well, Alexandre. I really think we all just need to wait a bit longer. Talia said in response to a post I made last week that she still has family with her, and that discussion on the questions I raised could be restarted in about 2 weeks (I think from about the 14th). So maybe give her another week or so. Azhira might be caught up with family or finding herself new work, although I have seen her pop onto the boards briefly in the last few weeks, and Artimidor is spending most of his time on his work for the next Nepris module. So, I'm not aware of anyone else with specific interest/knowledge of the Ash'Mari men/their religious practices ... although Alysse might be a possibility.

Would there be another entry you could work on while you're waiting for responses?

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« Reply #44 on: 08 January 2011, 10:37:39 »

No, I think I'll just wait. If anything, I didn't mean to seem impatient. It was just an inquiry as to whether or not an update could be given.
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