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Author Topic: Ash'Mari men religion section  (Read 14074 times)
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #45 on: 08 January 2011, 11:39:48 »

I didn't think you sounded impatient :)
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« Reply #46 on: 19 January 2011, 07:19:24 »

Well, it's nigh on two weeks since Dek and I had a chat. Are you around, Talia?
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« Reply #47 on: 19 January 2011, 10:30:28 »

Not officially yet.  At her daughter's, I believe.
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« Reply #48 on: 21 January 2011, 07:52:29 »

At my parent's :) don't know, if my daughter could stand me this long ;)

Alexandre, as soon as I have voted for the best masterwork (and reread them before), I will look at what you have now!  That may take a few days though stll, for I cannot be here too long each day. Shout for Azhira, I saw her also!
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« Reply #49 on: 23 January 2011, 11:39:52 »

At my parent's :) don't know, if my daughter could stand me this long ;)

Alexandre, as soon as I have voted for the best masterwork (and reread them before), I will look at what you have now!  That may take a few days though stll, for I cannot be here too long each day. Shout for Azhira, I saw her also!

Cool. It's good to hear from you again. I hope the last month has been as fun for you as it has been for me.
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« Reply #50 on: 24 January 2011, 00:53:49 »

No, I think I'll just wait. If anything, I didn't mean to seem impatient. It was just an inquiry as to whether or not an update could be given.

New religions are not quickly approved, let alone new North religions. Between Talia and myself, we are busy, but not absent. I will try to comment this week to move this along.  thumbup

Talia and Alysse are quite busy with their family commitments, while I am overwhelmed with my job/move situation this year. Altario has been in and out lately too.

Sorry if the North experts are not around as much lately...I know its frustrating.
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« Reply #51 on: 24 January 2011, 12:52:56 »

New religions are not quickly approved, let alone new North religions. Between Talia and myself, we are busy, but not absent. I will try to comment this week to move this along.  thumbup

Talia and Alysse are quite busy with their family commitments, while I am overwhelmed with my job/move situation this year. Altario has been in and out lately too.

Sorry if the North experts are not around as much lately...I know its frustrating.

Time's not an issue. However, I appreciate the details and hope you are blessed with stability soon.
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« Reply #52 on: 25 January 2011, 01:26:05 »

Note: This is only a part to give you something to do, I have other commitments also and this theme is not my favourite one (too brutal) ;)

Ok, let‘s see again what you have: :)

Generally - skip some f your headings (appearance, importance), as I said already, not every two sentences need one.

PREVALENCE- Rather than being based upon pious worship of token deities, as it customarily is with other religions, the Ash'mari religion is more of a derivation for  (of?) their culture than it is a pursuit of sanctity and greater knowledge. There is no class of the religious elite, no building designated for worship, and only a few rituals are done on occasion to substantiate their religion, which include the Taug'fa'yale ("Burning Man Feast"), Taug'put ("Blood Feast"), and Taug'dirg ("Leader's Feast"). are described later.

BELIEF OUTLINES- From a philosophical standpoint, they don't believe in anything other than unadulterated violence. There are no relative values such as good and bad, and they don't hold anything of a hope in their gods that there is something to look forward to.

I don‘t get , why you need to mention that view from a „philosophical standpoint“, just state it - no?
What are the consequences out of this „behaviour“ (sorry, sometimes the correct word flies me)


Likewise, their gods are characters that represent certain values they are looking after in order to survive.  

What are these values? More precise, please, don‘t let us guess

Moreover, rather than thinking about their enemies during battle, they look to the gods to determine whether or not they live or die, and feel that if they meet their demands with feral hunting, violent war making, and greedy pillaging, that they can live longer.

I think you need to express a bit clearer, where to you are aiming.
Tells us, that they do  not fear to be killed by their enemies, as it is not in the power of the enemies to decide about who will live or die, but that the gods decide, who will live or die. So, they try to get the benevolence of the gods through feral hunting.. Etc.. But what about skill?


If anything, however, they are more immediately concerned with their masters: the Diorye'oleal elves. Because of their impressive feats of magic, the Ash'mari consider them lesser gods, and hang on their every word. When the Dioyre'oleal send them to war, the Ash'mari relish the act. And when the Diorye'oleal delegate their slaves to do manual labor, the Ash'mari relish the act equally.

The last paragraph is not really connected to the rest of your submission. You wanted (I hope) to fulfil my request to link the elves and the humans tighter together, to explain that the way of live of the humans is a consequence of their subjugation under the elves, but I see nothing here.

THE ASH'MARI PANTHEON-



Seitre'otorm (meaning "tongue like snake") represents fertility, and manipulation. She illustrates to young Ash'mari that womenfolk can be like a two-edged blade.

Don‘t throw the facts at us like this, use whole sentences, please. „ S. is (rank?) the most .. Goddess of the Ash‘mari pantheon. She represents.. The meaning of her name illustrates...

Ian'fa (not a name like we might think of it, but a statement saying "we are descendants of the man") represents divine providence. While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct, Ian'fa is the reason that they live as long as they get to live. He is attributed with the creation and delegation of the three lesser gods over the Ash'mari.

Who is who? Where are the three lesser gods? Name the most important god first, or the first one (creation?) Your sentence „ While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct“ is a bit disturbing. Do you really mean, a Ashmari is killed by the gods for what? Kind conduct? Is this something bad then? Yes, it is clear from the fact, that they strive for brutality etc, but do the gods intervene on such a low level? ***

Brackets are evil!


Ash'fa (the fierce man) represents war and conquest, and demands that much blood be spilled in order to quell his wrath.

Example



Mari'put (the blood/bane wolf) is the feral wolf who kills his enemies without clothing or shield, and demands that they hunt their prey in the same manner.

Do Ash‘mari battle naked?


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I still think, this concept is too black and white, it has no greys in it. And it would probably not work. Their have to be enclaves, where people can have a little bit of trust, and be it in the family, or with close relatives. If we assume, that children have the same psychological needs as earthen ones, then we have to say, they would rarely survive or be able to propagate.

I would really love to see here some greys as well, to make this society a bit more believable, even if the tribe entry has to be twisted slightly. I would not want to cement that with religion.

I hope I could help you a bit, so that you can work from here.

Next time it is Azhira's call! ;)

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« Reply #53 on: 25 January 2011, 08:43:50 »

Quote
Generally - skip some f your headings (appearance, importance), as I said already, not every two sentences need one.

I was thinking of making this into separate entries just like there are for the other Kuglimz, but I agree now that this should be just one entry. I'll cut out some headings and rework some of it so that it flows better (because without those headings this entry now lacks cohesion).

Quote
I don‘t get , why you need to mention that view from a „philosophical standpoint“, just state it - no?
What are the consequences out of this „behaviour“ (sorry, sometimes the correct word flies me)

First: That is just my writing style. It would feel unnatural for me not to identify the topic offhand like that.

Second: It's a religion, so I don't necessarily see why I have to explain how this affects the people. I do understand that there must be adverse effects (especially with children), but the Ash'Mari are slaves who live a violent lifestyle. So, I would be going against the entry if I were to try and squeeze in any of this uncharacteristic nicety you want me to put in there. I thought I had pointed that out nicely whenever I quoted several parts of the entry and did a play by play for you (although that post was a month back before things slowed down a bit here, so you may not have seen it).

Quote
What are these values? More precise, please, don‘t let us guess

Okay, I'll give a small explanation to supplant the questions of the readers until they get to the sections designated to the different gods.

Quote
I think you need to express a bit clearer, where to you are aiming.
Tells us, that they do  not fear to be killed by their enemies, as it is not in the power of the enemies to decide about who will live or die, but that the gods decide, who will live or die. So, they try to get the benevolence of the gods through feral hunting.. Etc.. But what about skill?

It doesn't say anything about skill in the entry, and I don't see why I need to make an explanation of their fighting style here. I simply noted how their religion affects combat, because of what was said in the entry.

Quote
The last paragraph is not really connected to the rest of your submission. You wanted (I hope) to fulfil my request to link the elves and the humans tighter together, to explain that the way of live of the humans is a consequence of their subjugation under the elves, but I see nothing here.

I'll think about that and try to meet your request better.

Quote
Don‘t throw the facts at us like this, use whole sentences, please. „ S. is (rank?) the most .. Goddess of the Ash‘mari pantheon. She represents.. The meaning of her name illustrates...

I don't understand what you are saying there, which can be my fault and not yours. Please clarify this bit for me.

Quote
Who is who? Where are the three lesser gods? Name the most important god first, or the first one (creation?) Your sentence „ While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct“ is a bit disturbing. Do you really mean, a Ashmari is killed by the gods for what? Kind conduct? Is this something bad then? Yes, it is clear from the fact, that they strive for brutality etc, but do the gods intervene on such a low level? ***

Brackets are evil!

This also seemed a bit sporadic and didn't make sense to me. I'm sorry but I have a hard enough time thinking about what to say and thinking about what other people say under normal circumstances, so I simply can't decipher these kinds of comments (however much I appreciate them).

Quote
Do Ash‘mari battle naked?

More often than not, according to the entry.

Quote
I still think, this concept is too black and white, it has no greys in it. And it would probably not work. Their have to be enclaves, where people can have a little bit of trust, and be it in the family, or with close relatives. If we assume, that children have the same psychological needs as earthen ones, then we have to say, they would rarely survive or be able to propagate.

I would really love to see here some greys as well, to make this society a bit more believable, even if the tribe entry has to be twisted slightly. I would not want to cement that with religion.

I hope I could help you a bit, so that you can work from here.

Next time it is Azhira's call! ;)

You've been helpful, and I hope I can explain more clearly why they are the way they are in the entry. I do realize that it seems unrealistic right now, so I want to be thorough and tie it in to the entry well, in order for their extreme tendencies to make sense.
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« Reply #54 on: 25 January 2011, 09:25:25 »

Alexandre, I'll try to explain part of what I think that Talia is asking you to do.

Quote
Don‘t throw the facts at us like this, use whole sentences, please. „ S. is (rank?) the most .. Goddess of the Ash‘mari pantheon. She represents.. The meaning of her name illustrates...

and the part of your entry to which Talia is speaking about ...

Quote
Seitre'otorm (meaning "tongue like snake") represents fertility, and manipulation. She illustrates to young Ash'mari that womenfolk can be like a two-edged blade.

I believe that she is basically asking you to expand on this ... to write more than two sentences and to write in full complete sentences, in other words give us flesh around the bones you have already provided us, basically make her into a rich and colourful deity like the deities already existing on site. Now, I'm not saying a complete entry on her, but more information than what you've got, please.

Next one from Talia ...

Quote
Who is who? Where are the three lesser gods? Name the most important god first, or the first one (creation?) Your sentence „ While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct“ is a bit disturbing. Do you really mean, a Ashmari is killed by the gods for what? Kind conduct? Is this something bad then? Yes, it is clear from the fact, that they strive for brutality etc, but do the gods intervene on such a low level? ***

Brackets are evil!

Seems to apply to the following part from your original entry

Quote
Ian'fa (not a name like we might think of it, but a statement saying "we are descendants of the man") represents divine providence. While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct, Ian'fa is the reason that they live as long as they get to live. He is attributed with the creation and delegation of the three lesser gods over the Ash'mari.

Ok, you've mentioned 'the three lesser gods' here, but haven't told us who they are! Talia is asking that you name them here. She has also suggested that you name the gods in order of importance at some place, so that we all know who they are ... as is the case in the roleplaying side, you know what your trying to say here, we don't ... explain it ... give us more details in other words.

Talia has also asked what you mean by the statement 'While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct', and wants you to be clearer with what you mean ... perhaps once again with an example of it.

Finally, the 'brackets is evil' statement is basically saying, if possible don't use brackets in your writing, instead try to write it out as part of the sentences.

Remember, Alexandre,  various entries which are on site are being reworked and updated ... so if you need to, some changes to this tribe that fits in with what you are wanting to do are possible ... I'm not suggesting that you make them into a race of people that goes skipping through the forest, composing beautiful music and collecting wild flowers, after all, Azhira made her ghostling Brownies to fulfil that role <G> evil ... but if you wanted to make some changes to aspects of the tribe, it might be possible to do so, you'd just have to run it past area/tribe experts first.

I hope that helps somewhat, and I hope I explained what Talia was trying to say correctly.

Dek
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« Reply #55 on: 25 January 2011, 09:57:33 »

Quote
Ok, you've mentioned 'the three lesser gods' here, but haven't told us who they are! Talia is asking that you name them here. She has also suggested that you name the gods in order of importance at some place, so that we all know who they are ... as is the case in the roleplaying side, you know what your trying to say here, we don't ... explain it ... give us more details in other words.

Talia has also asked what you mean by the statement 'While the lesser gods kill the Ash'mari for kind conduct', and wants you to be clearer with what you mean ... perhaps once again with an example of it.

Finally, the 'brackets is evil' statement is basically saying, if possible don't use brackets in your writing, instead try to write it out as part of the sentences.

Actually, I don't want to level the accusation that you guys aren't reading the whole entry, but I clearly took care of that issue in the sections designated to the different gods. Here it is:

Quote
For Ash'fa:

Ash'fa translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the fierce man". Together with Mari'put and Fau'taug, Ash'fa is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Ash'fa took a leading role in the war bands, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- Being a particularly awesome visage, Ash'fa stands at a height of 2 peds 7 fores, and is made of burnished iron and bronze, sparkling and still hot to the touch. His humanoid body is featureless, aside from the slits he has for nasal openings, eyes, and lips.

And, similar to a waterfall wasting away water into an empty abyss, Ash'fa is portrayed drinking tankard after tankard of blood perched upon his granite throne, far above the trees of Hovel Frond.

IMPORTANCE- High atop the trees, sitting upon his granite throne, Ash'fa exhorts and coerces the Ash'mari to spill more and more blood for his enjoyment. So greedy is he, for fresh blood, that he punishes  the barbarians (most often with disease and various political reasons for death) if they don't spill as much blood as they can while pitched in battle.

For Mari'put-

Mari'put translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the blood\bane wolf". Together with Ash'fa and Fau'taug, Mari'put is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Ash'fa took a leading role in the hunting parties, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- There is no worldly conception of how he looks other than that his kin, the wolves of Hovel Frond, are each lesser likenesses of him and his feral predilection. He has never made an appearance in the forest, and the Ash'mari suppose that Mari'put is off hunting in the great void that they overheard their masters speaking of.

IMPORTANCE- Off hunting alone and unclothed in the great void, ripping his prey apart and parading their entrails and private parts about, Ash'fa demands that the Ash'mari hunt like his wolves. If any Ash'mari were to wear armor or protect himself with a shield during combat, he would be doomed to die from the very same blade he wants protection from. So, the moral of the story is that they had better get thick hides and get them quick.

For Fau'taug-

Fau'taug translates from the Ash'mari tongue into "the feasting man". Together with Ash'fa and Mari'put, Fau'taug is one from the pantheon of war gods worshiped by the Ash'mari barbarians. After the burning night (the fall of the Mynian Empire in 1649 b.S.), Fau'taug used every means necessary, from freshly forged blades and hidden pikes around his dwelling place, to accrue more and more plunder and protect his own goods from everyone else in the tribe, and along with Mari'put and Fau'taug, he subjugated Dirg'mari for his own glorification.

APPEARANCE- Manifesting himself as a gluttonous mass of flesh and hair, his humanity is barely discernible underneath the folds of fat that dominate his figure. Fau'taug is often depicted as trying to appropriate any little earring, dagger, cup, eating utensil, uneaten scrap of meat, or trinket he can find in the hands of an unwary barbarian.

IMPORTANCE- Fau'taug slinks across the forest floor, his oily flesh masking the noise of his movement, and steals without reservation or inhibition. At the least, he demands that a proper fight be had every time the barbarians consider what to do with the spoils of their conquests.

So I clarified what kind of conduct was expected, and gave lengthy descriptions of each lesser god.

I was then starting to do the same for the two greater gods, and planned to do it with the elves as well.

And lastly, yes I will try to cut down on the parentheses.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2011, 10:00:51 by Alexandre Scriabin » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: 25 January 2011, 10:15:47 »

I never stated I read the entire entry at that point, Alexandre. I was only trying to help you understand what I thought Talia was asking for, and I was explaining what I thought she was meaning. I'll keep out of it in the future.

Dek
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« Reply #57 on: 27 January 2011, 23:24:59 »

What I'd mostly like to see here is more.  More details, fuller descriptions.  Most of what you have seems to be following the original entry, which is good, but you need to flesh it out a bit more.  I think that might also help with clarifying what you intend.  The more you give us, the better we can understand where you are going and want to go with this.  Talia makes a good point about "more grey areas", but I think if you can fill in your outline a bit more, then we can make more helpful suggestions (I hope they're helpful, anyway!) about what you might want to add/subtract/modify.  If you need some help with research, we can assist there as well.  At this point, I don't want to suggest that you cut or change too much--those things can always be done later if desired.  The most important thing is giving us more to work with so that we can critique more effectively.

It's nearly impossible to write TOO much here--some of our longer entries go for pages.  Not that you need pages here, just more detail.  I think you have some good concepts here and I'd like to see them developed a bit further. 

I hope this is helpful.  I'll try and look in more often as things calm down and we get back to a regular schedule.

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« Reply #58 on: 27 January 2011, 23:33:49 »

Alysse, the problem here is though, that it is an addition to a tribe entry, not an entry about the religion itself, so it should not be longer than rest of the tribe entry .

Alexandre, you could do a religion entry and then summarize it for the tribe entry - maybe this way it is easier to get the essence of  the religion part for the tribe entry, describe there the most important , but deeper rooting (then now)  things and leave the rest out?
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« Reply #59 on: 28 January 2011, 04:16:55 »

Actually, I was under the assumption that it was an entry of it's own, on religion. At least, that's what I thought we discussed at the start.
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