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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« on: 24 January 2011, 00:34:48 »

This grew out of my ramblings on the Glandorians in the Races forum. It was suggested I move it here. I now have vocab. for both Tharian-Glandorian and Glandorian-Tharian in alphabetical order.

Some additions in orange


Principles of the Language (lifted from previous work): comparable to Tharian, represented by a vaguely Germanic language, as Tharian is represented by English. If Tharian = English, Glandorian = Invented Germanic language.

Key:
EoV - End of Verb (suffix)
BV - Before Verb (separate word)
Can be verbed - Can form a verb by adding "er"
Femable - Can be made feminine by changing "o" or "u" to "a"

Current Vocabulary: Tharian-Glandorian

TharianGlandorianNotes
AllAlle
AndOgj
ArriveAv
BattleWig
BeBisIrregular - Bith not bish
Be ableKan
Be brokenBrekThus brekik - unbroken; brekij - break; brekikij - mend (cause to be unbroken)
BloodBlodCan be verbed
Cause toIjEoV
ChildKithAlso means kid goat
CutBloderijlit. "cause to bleed"
DamageBa
DieFrawadIn combat
Do.../Will...OlIndicates question. E.g. Dyu frawadol? - Do you fight?
EarthLamAs is mud, clay. Lam'en - earthly, mundane
-edEd*Simple Past* EoV. E.g. Ic frawed - I fought. Just "d" after e
Entire, complete, uncorruptedAltaewe
FateGjordIncluding as a being
FightFrawVerb
GoWendVerb
HadOjAuxiliary. EoV. E.g. Ic avoj - I had arrived
HasOrAuxiliary. EoV. E.g. Ic avor - I have arrived
HatefulNitj
HaveHaNot auxiliary. Haij - Give (cause to have)
HeHan
HerMainPossessive.
HisHein
HouseHau
IIcBV
IdeaIdeCan be verbed. Ider - Think
*Intensifier*(a)nEoV. E.g. ban - destroy/kill (opposed to frawadij). "an" after consonant.
IsOkAuxiliary. EoV. E.g. Mean frawadok - She is dying
Kid goatKithAlso means child
LandLandAs in country.
LoveElskCan be verbed
(Male) relativeSkjommSometimes without "j". Femable
ManMah
MeMiAll English meanings
MyMu
NotIkEoV.
One who [has/had/will/is][verb]/One who [verb]'ennEoV.
OverObeIn senses of "above" and "more than"
PerfectFekt
Place of originMerkThus "landmerk" -  native land
ProtectorHelm
SelfSel"Myself" etc. form like English
ServiceTheowpt
SheMeanTwo syllables - mé-an
ShieldWighelmLit. "Battle protector"
SonSkjunFemable
StrongThor
SwordBloderij'ennlit. "One who causes to bleed"
TellTe
ThatDaAs in "I think that..." "He says that..."
ThatTahAs in "That man". Those = tahs. Those swords - Tahs bloderij'enns
ThingDin
ThisTisThese = Tisse
VowVowCan be verbed
WarWiganLit. "Great war"
WeWi
WhereHwarAll English meanings
WhenHwenAll English meanings
WhichEnn
WillIrEoV. E.g. Han avir - He will arrive
WolfUlf
WomanMeah
YouDyeeObject pronoun. Add "r" for plural.
YouDyuSubject pronoun. Add "er" for plural.

Current Vocabulary: Glandorian-Tharian
Glandorian TharianNotes
AlleAll
AltaeweEntire, complete, uncorrupted
-anVariant of "-n" intensifier
AvArrive
BaDamage
BisBeIrregular - Bith not bish
BlodBloodCan be verbed
BloderijCutlit. "cause to bleed"
Bloderij'ennSwordlit. "one which causes to bleed"
BrekBreak (as in be broken)Thus brekik - unbroken, brekij - to break and brekikij - to mend (cause to be unbroken)
DaThatAs in "I think that..." or "He said that..."
DinThing
DyeeYouObject pronoun. EoV. Add "r" for plural.
DyuYouSubject pronoun. BV. Add "er" for plural.
Ed-edEoV. *Simple Past*
ElskLoveCan be verbed
EnnWhich
'EnnOne who [has/will/is/had] [verb]/One who [verb]EoV
FektPerfect
FrawFight
FrawadDieIn combat
GjordFateBoth as word and as name for being
HaHaveNot auxiliary. Haij - Give (cause to have)
HanHe
HauHouse
HeinHis
HelmProtector
HwarWhereAll English meanings
HwenWhenAll English meanings
IcI
IdeIdeaCan be verbed (ider - think)
IjCause toEoV.
IkNotEoV.
IrWillAuxiliary. E.g. Han avir -he will arrive
KanTo be able
KithChild, kid goatMeaning sometimes unclear - eg "Ic frawadij kith" - I kill the child, or I kill the kid goat?
LamEarthAs in clay, mud. Lam'en - earthly
LandLandAs in country
MahMan
MainHerPossessive
MeahWoman
MeanSheTwo syllables - mé-an
MerkPlace of originThus landmerk - native country
MiMe
MuMy
N (an after consonant)*Intensifier*Intensifier. EoV. Ban - destroy/kill (opposed to frawadij)
NitjHateful
ObeOver In senses of "above" and "more than"
OgjAnd
OjHadAuxiliary. EoV. E.g. Dyu avoj - You had arrived
OkIsAuxiliary. EoV. E.g. Mean frawadok - She is dying
OlDo.../Will...EoV. Indicates a question. E.g. Hwen dyu avirol? - When will you arrive?
OrHasAuxiliary. EoV. Ic teor - I have told.
SelSelfMyself etc. form like English
SkjunSonSometimes without "j". Femable
Skjomm(Male) relativeSometimes without "j". Femable
TahThatThose: Tahs. Not as in indirect statements.
TeTell
TheowptService
ThorStrong
TisThisThese: Tisse
UlfWolf
VowVowNoun. Can be verbed.
WendGoVerb.
WiWe
WigBattle
WiganWarLit. "Great Battle"
WighelmShieldLit. "Battle protector"

Current grammar - Nouns
"Den - The" is always implied unless real emphasis is required or in formal texts.
Genders - Masculine and feminine. Masculine - Men, boys, things to do with the land, anything in the domain of Hanranns; Feminine - Women, girls, things to do with the sea, anything in the domain of Meanra.
Singular:
Nominative -    Mag      Meag
Accusative -   Mag      Meag
Genitive -    Mag'en      Meag'en
Dative -    Mag      Meag
Plural: Add "s" to end. With genitive, position of "s" is important.
Mags'en - The men's (single object)
Mag'ens - The man's (many objects)
Mags'ens - The men's (many objects)
Genders:
"a" is often a feminine letter, "o" and "u" being masculine. Changing one of these into the other will change a noun to its other gender, e.g. skomm goes to skamm, male relative to female relative.

Current grammar - Verbs
Verbs such as "To Vow" can be formed from the noun by adding "er" to the end, or just "r" after an e
Direct and indirect objects go on the end. They are the same. Mi = me in all English meanings
Subject pronouns precede verb. Separate words.
Ik = not, goes on end of verb. Same with very etc.
Imperative = Infinitive = Present singular
Simple past = Infinitive + ed or d (after vowel; thus Ic aved - I arrived; Ic ted - I told
Present plural = Infinitive + h e.g.: I tell = Ic te; we tell = Wi teh
I - Ic            Me - Mi
You - Dyu            You - Dyee
He/She - Han/Mean (two syllables - mé-an)   Him/Her -
We - Wi            Us -
You - Dyuer         You - Dyeer
They - Ser            Them -

"Ol" means "do" etc. e.g. Dyu haol - Do you have?
With no pronoun, means "anyone" e.g. Haol - Does anyone have?

Bis - To Be:
Bis - 1st and 3rd sing.
Bith - 2nd sing. all plural (not Bish).

Current grammar - Plurals
Usually "s" or "se" if this causes no sound change.
Verbs - Add "h"
Sometimes add "r" or "er"

Suffix Order:
Apply from the back - order changes with meaning - "Ic brekikij" means "mend", but "Ic brekijik" means "I do not break"
Pronouns (mi etc.) go last
"Or", "ok", "ir", "oj", "ed" always come straight after 'enn, never before.

Haol ides? (Does anyone have ideas?)

And my little translation for anyone who cares to try it:

Ic vowerdyee mu landmerk
Obe alle lam'ens dins
Altaewe ogj Brekik ogj Fekt
Theowept mu elsk'en

Anyone know the original patriotic hymn?

Well, the Bard got this. Here's the translation:

I vow to you my homeland
Over all earthly things
Entire and whole and perfect
The service of my love

Here's the original:

I vow to thee my country,
All earthly things above,
Entire, and whole, and perfect,
The service of my love

If anyone wants me to give some more example of how this works in practice, I've made lists of examples just for fun while I was doing this, but deleted them from this post because I thought they were clutter. Just ask and I will provide.

Ath.
« Last Edit: 25 June 2011, 05:38:05 by Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 24 January 2011, 06:02:54 »

I tried to work out your patriotic hymn, but didn't have much success ... though at a guess, the one that goes the land of the free?

Aura from me for what seems to me to be a cool idea.

Dek
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #2 on: 24 January 2011, 06:13:49 »

No, it's not actually. I don't know how well known a hymn it is, but we sing it at school sometimes (mandatory nightly Chapel). I like it, especially the first verse, of which I've translated the first half. So it's half a verse we have here, and no actual religious connotations as such, just patriotic ones.

Thanks for the aura. I'll check whether I've provided all of the needed Glandorian for the song. I think I have, though some of the words are constructions that are only mentioned in the Notes - e.g., "landmerk" is formed of "land" and "merk" and isn't listed as such, just mentioned in the Notes column.
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« Reply #3 on: 24 January 2011, 07:19:18 »

oh ... knowing what country it is for would be helpful.
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #4 on: 24 January 2011, 07:40:04 »

Always willing to be helpful, but it doesn't mention any country. I think the words of the original poem were written by an Englishman, but it's not like Jerusalem and open about it. There's no mention of a particular country. I can't really be more open for obvious reasons.
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« Reply #5 on: 24 January 2011, 09:47:28 »

I do believe I've got it:

    I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
    Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love....

A very nice 'translation', considering what you are working with!  Bravo, Ath....
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #6 on: 24 January 2011, 16:35:29 »

Correct! Well done! "I vow to thee, my country" is the hymn. I hope I managed to get the sense across (nice thing about inventing a language, if I want to say something, I just make it up! Well, at this stage.) There was some paraphrasing - like "earthly things"="things of earth" But well done Bard.
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« Reply #7 on: 24 January 2011, 18:01:41 »

Don't mean to derail the topic here, but there isn't an issue with just sharing lyrics that have to do with God or making a simple expression about Him, is there? I don't think that would cause trouble.
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« Reply #8 on: 24 January 2011, 18:35:57 »

Maybe you could ask Arti to look over it for you before you get too far along with what your doing, Athviaro. A quick bell ring of him directing him to this thread would ensure he approves of it and that it fits with other things. I'm sure there won't be a problem, but better to be safe than sorry. :)

Oh ... and I was meaning more was it aimed at a particular country more so than was a particular country mentioned in the verse. Sorry for not being clearer. :)

Dek
« Last Edit: 24 January 2011, 20:10:42 by Deklitch Hardin » Logged

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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #9 on: 24 January 2011, 20:00:09 »

Bellrung. And I think you thought I was Alt. Still...*sigh*  :P :D
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"Well, I did nothing as a girl, so there goes my childhood." - Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, The Gay Divorcee, 1934.
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« Reply #10 on: 25 January 2011, 03:45:49 »

Ok, some first comments, Athviaro!

First of all: An aura +1 for trying to make Glandorian a proper language, and for the work that has already gone into it so far.

Secondly, there's something very important you have to look into if you work on Glandorian, and that is to check out the Avennorian Nomenclature thread. There you find all currently constructed Avennorian names. Also, have a look at the Avennorian Nomenclature section in the entry on the Avennorians.

To make it short: The Glandorians are the predecessors of the Avennorians, which means that Avennorian names are actually based on Glandorian. I have put together lots of typical Avennorian/Glandorian syllables already in my Santharian Names Generator program, in order to be able to construct proper names. This information you find in the entry on the site. If you look at those you'll see that they are heavily influenced by Scandinavian languages, so this should show very much in this language concept as well. Right now this information doesn't seem to have made it in full into your thread here - so make sure to study this and make it part of your current ideas and expand on it.
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #11 on: 25 January 2011, 04:20:55 »

First, thanks for the aura. Very kind of you.

Second, I've read the Avennorian entry several times and made two Avennorian character for the RP board, so I'm familiar with the nomenclature, and in my vocab lists you'll see skjun - son and skomm - male relative (both "femable" by changing "o" or "u" to "a"), as well as av - arrive, 'enn - one who [verb] and or - has (auxiliary). Unless I'm mistaken, this is all the preexisting Glandorian vocabulary. I'm also aware that the Avennorians are descended from the Glandorians, that the Glandorians are very Scandinavian, and I've done my best to get this across. Glandorian is based on English (te - tell), Danish (elsk - love) and German (alle - all), as wel as Old English (altaewe - entire). I used original Old English texts such as The Wanderer and corruptions of my limited Danish and German, as well as all the resources I could find. Very few of my words are made up with no basis. I'm not going to spend the time I spent on this without at least some assurance that it's in line with the ideas preexisting. In fact, I think the Scandinavian links attracted my love of Germanic languages and Danish heritage, as well as my latent patriotism.

I hope none of this comes across as rude or offhand - I'm typing in a bit of a rush, and I'm completely paranoid about that. I just wanted, essentially, to ask whether you were saying "change what you have - it doesn't fit the image" or "make sure you keep to the image as you continue working". So that's my response. You can ignore the above if you like.

Ath.
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"I don't care what you did as a boy."
"Well, I did nothing as a girl, so there goes my childhood." - Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, The Gay Divorcee, 1934.
The Life and Works of Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
Kalta'hnk - My ramblings on anything to do with the Glandorians - The Glandorian Men (Proposal)
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« Reply #12 on: 25 January 2011, 04:40:12 »

Oh, just wanted to say: More of the Scandinavian influences can't hurt, like weave further such syllables into your concept, that sort of thing :)
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #13 on: 25 January 2011, 23:18:34 »

Don't mean to derail the topic here, but there isn't an issue with just sharing lyrics that have to do with God or making a simple expression about Him, is there? I don't think that would cause trouble.

Only if I disagree with them evil

Seriously, I think it depends how you want to come across. If it's just an expression, not intended as stimulus for argument, it's probably OK, but it may be best to keep that out of the main fora - although if you want to discuss it in private with another member, that's your business. Say, for example, you post something like that in a thread in the general area, I may or may not respond, but I'd probably send you a PM if I did, or once it reached a point - as I've said before, I try to leave things like politics (I have very few) and religion (I have none) at the door when I come on Santharia, simply to preserve peace.

That said, I suppose the point is I'm not going to be tearing those apart in public, so if you religious people (I realise how that sounds, but there's no other way to say it) want to, meh. I'll try not to burst your bubble disrupt you.

That said, check with Arti, not me.

Ath
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"I don't care what you did as a boy."
"Well, I did nothing as a girl, so there goes my childhood." - Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, The Gay Divorcee, 1934.
The Life and Works of Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
Kalta'hnk - My ramblings on anything to do with the Glandorians - The Glandorian Men (Proposal)
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