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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« on: 08 June 2011, 20:32:31 »

I rewrote the whole submission partly (feels like entirely though) and took out some parts which were focussed too much on the Twelvern Faith like I would love to have it. I hope it is now written more neutral as an article in an encyclopedia should be, though I still think, that this is not entirely possible, but that the history and inclination of an author, the society he lives in, will always have an impact on the writing. I changed the view slightly also, so that religious magic, though distinct, will have a lot in common with non-religious magic also.

As I changed this much, colouring was so complicated, that I cut it down. Just the new ideas are in blue.

The old thread, with the comments can be found
here.

My colouring attempts here (.doc, hopefully in colour)

Thanks for all the helpful comments, especially to Trel and Artimidor, without them this would not be what it is now.

This did take definitely too long, but I hope that the saying
„Gut Ding will Weile haben“ (good things take their time) applies here.

Edit: I didn‘t manage to do the last parts (abilities) with the problems addressed there, but to get this on the site in the not so far future and to force me to finally bring it to an end, I post the first half now. Comments welcome. 

I will post the problematic parts in a week or so, being away over pentecost.

My own comments are in teal

I'll do several posts, then editing is easier :)

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #1 on: 08 June 2011, 20:35:50 »


This essay is the spiritual work from one of the most knowledgeable men of our time, Takór Salenar, Metharín of Elsreth, priest of Armeros, adept in elven magic due to birth, with an education in secular magic at the academy of Ximax. Due to his blindness, he was not able to write this himself anymore, but asked the responsible persons of the Great Library in New Santhala to provide him with somebody who could do this in a responsible way. The Shendar Ta‘lia of the Seven Jewels, one of the writers of the Great Library, in charge for the department of Cosmology, Myths and Religion was assigned the task to write down and edit the work. But it could not have been released without the counseling help of sage Artimidor Federkiel himself and other members of the Compendium. Thanks to all who helped to publish this fundamental work.


As Arthéos Mirabilis Federkiel has anyway already entires on the site, he might be the better author for this one than this Shendar woman?


Religious (Divine- and Spirit-) Magic  



Introduction and General Overview



Foreword


Religious Magic* as a whole is more than a magic construct, more than a world view, more than an offhand dismissal: „what clerics or shamans do when using magic“. Different approaches towards perceiving the world and diverse kinds of practise have led to a multitude of concepts. Some have many views in common - such as the Santharian and Aeruillin Clerical Magic, although  different gods are worshipped. Some differ entirely from each other, like the Himiko Magic and the Kaaer‘dar Worship Practises, both practiced by tribes in Northern Sarvonia.  There are plenty of aspects of Religious Magic which need to be addressed and many controversial views to be covered. Not all religions rely on magical interaction with their gods -  the majority of the Ice Tribes of Northern Sarvonia despise magic, though they use magical items; some scholars who deny the existence of gods have tried to explain Divine Magic in terms of Ximax (as they attempt to do it with witchcraft), more or less successfully; some concepts are far away from the Ximaxian view of magic, some have astounding similarities. There is no strict borderline to non-religious magic, what the ,means‘ concerns, how the desired magic effects are obtained (trance, spoken words e.g.), a distinction will be attempted though.  

This entry can, due to its nature, only be very general. Religious Magic is so diverse, that it cannot be covered by a single entry. Here the inter community of all Divine and Spiritual Magic will be presented, some differences touched and further readings recommended.






Overview

Though the nature of this subject is so divers, it can be brought together under the term 'Religious Magic‘, for all forms  are dealing with one subject: The magical interaction of sentient beings with their „Gods“ , be it the Twelve of Santharia,  the K‘ahn‘uck‘tscha of the orcs of Northern Sarvonia or the  Vikthi of the Drifting woods in Nybelmar, with  the „Primal Spirits“ the Kaaer Halforcs of Northern Sarvonia venerate or with the „Essences“ the Druids are merging with. Where Ximaxian scholars try to approach magic with an analytic mindset, religious magic emphasises the empiric approach. All believers, be it in gods, primal spirits or essences claim, that they have experienced their object of worship and that their ability to use magic is a gift given to them. So it is not astonishing, that the belief is of utmost importance to the success of divine magic. Belief is what makes the use of religious magic possible, not primarily the knowledge of how it works as in Ximaxian magic or the ability  of the witches to ... (??).



Prevalence


Religious Magic is  practised nearly everywhere in the known regions of Caelereth by most races. Due to the location of the Great Library and the Compendium for which this essay is written, the focus will lie for now on Sarvonian Religious Magic, primarily those of the main races. Some other cultures and their habits in this respect will be mentioned and described as best as is possible. Although not much research is done (from our side) on other continents, hopefully this will change in the future with the expeditions King Tiandor has encouraged recently. In addition, the discussion about different topics between the Twelvern Magic, the Santharian (human) Clerical Magic, and Ximaxian magic will find a place as well. (See list of essays below)

[color=teal| I fear I need to change that slightly and have to add something about Nybelmar - help!
The new findings (Kenntnisse?) about Nybelmarian Religious Magic can only be touched marginally
Maybe I can add/revise that later, but for now I would like to avoid to dive deeper into Nybelmarian RM, otherwise this submission gets never finished.
[/color]

« Last Edit: 19 June 2011, 03:44:31 by Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels » Logged

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2011, 20:38:34 »


Concept/Worldview


Religious Magic, as the term is used by scholars, deals with all magic practices, where a „belief“ is important in some way. That is of course all magic that is correlated with the worship of gods, and other kinds such as druidic magic or the shamanic beliefs of the Kaaer‘dar half orcs. What most of these concepts have in common is the belief, that the worshipped entities are directly or indirectly interacting with the world, and that this interaction can be initiated or called upon (via prayers, reciting of mantras etc.), so that in consequence it can be focused and channeled towards a specific concrete or general intention held by the believer. Such interaction from the side of transcending entities is claimed to especially take place with sentient beings, though they are said to take an interest in the well-being of all living things. Practitioners of religious magic say that these entities or transcending essences appreciate the devotion of their followers and reward faith (Twelvern gods) or following their will (Aeoliran gods) with turning towards the worshipper or rewarding them with whatever is desired. How the interaction between the gods (or substitute) looks like, how the gods ( or essences, primal spirits, ancestors, etc.) benefit their followers or what the followers have to do to please the their object of veneration varies from culture to culture, from race to race. However, nowhere spells are cast - though the prayers may look like spells - but through various other means like  songs, meditation, fasting or other options the attention of the transcending beings is sought out. It depends on the individual characteristic of the belief, if the subject of worship is always answering, or if it as in the case of the Santharian gods may - or may not  - respond.  This answer however may not be to the liking of the pleader. Some variations of religious magic seems not so susceptible to failure though as the Twelvern Magic e.g., if the gods or spirits are appeased correctly: An Aeolian worshippers faith is not as fragile as he can rely on the rewards he expects from his good deeds, a Kaaer’dar’shin half-orcen tribe of Northern Sarvonia is sure of his relation to the primal spirit Durgho if he only harnesses his internal spirit („Yarna“) well enough.  

It can be assumed that all users of religious magic believe in the existence of their worshipped ,beings‘. However, „belief“, or better "faith", the unconditional trust in a transcending entity that can respond to one's call , is a  thing too difficult to grasp and so any description has to fail. Faith is an essential part in many religions and for the success of the practised magic. More about the problems under Basic Principles.

« Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 00:38:40 by Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2011, 20:45:21 »



Basic Principles


It is not really known, how Religious Magic works. There are several attempts to explain it, one of them a Ximaxian(1) and (4), but it is always an attempt to explain the unexplainable. , which actually makes the phenomenon of Religious Magic even more interesting.

Clerics as shamans or other representatives of religious magic claim, that their magic is based on the interaction of their transcendent beings with their followers. They exist not only, but take interest (in a positive or negative way) in all living things, especially the sentient beings, and do respond to their approaches, though the intensity with which it happens varies throughout the religions, as the roles of the divine forces and their intentions to interfere in the world of the living are interpreted differently.

 
The followers seek contact to the gods, the ancestors or the primal spirits, through different means like prayers, songs, meditation and various rituals (e.g. sacrificing food, beasts or even humans in rare cases), asking them for assistance, praising them for help granted or seeking to pacify them. These supernatural powers hear these pleas and react if they wish to. They may grant a wish, they may not. The likelihood of a follower receiving what he has asked for depends heavily on the kind of religious magic practised, but most often the faith in the god or spirit is of utmost importance.

There are differences in the perception of the religions as to what is needed for a correct and effectual interaction with their worshipped counterparts though. The Aeoliran Religion for example teaches that the good deeds of the followers please the gods and their chance of being heard by the gods grows with each good deed, while the priests and clerics of the twelve Santharian gods are convinced, that faith alone is the key to the heart of the gods. More about these different views in the respective entries.
 
In many religions, but especially in the realm of the Divine Magic like the Twelvern Faith, no tools or other means are principally needed to practise magic. (2) For throughout all beliefs it is the gods  who listen to your concerns and mostly nothing else as your prayer, your outcry to the gods is needed to bring your desire forward.

Quote
Quote Art:
(Well, this is just, excuse my wording: ISSO. It's very generalized and written matter-of-factly from an all-knowing "godly" perspective. You need to anchor that in order to give it credence. For example you could state that everything that someone accomplished using utensils in order to achieve divine magic, was accomplished by faithful people without it. Therefore it seems to be a pure matter of faith.)

That comment stopped me for quite a while, for I was looking for a solution. But I think I simply disagree here. I do not have to compare, nor could I, an „event“ like a prayer fulfilled to another one. First, every addressing the gods (let make it easy for now and take just divine magic) is a single event which cannot be compared to any other, even if the same task is ,done‘, e.g. a prayer for rain. Every situation is different. Hey, we are not scientific as the Ximaxians and do not have the requirement of modern science, that experiments have to be repeatable. Second: It is not ISSO, it is daily experience of common people and priests alike, that it works without utensils. Empiric. There may be some, who think, that it is easier (and it is probably fact), that the Twelvern gems help, but everybody knows, that such things are not vitally.


Quote
Quote Trel
I'm not sure this is completely clear.  Are you saying that all someone need do is wish for something and it will be brought to the gods' attention?  The Santharian gods must be very busy!

Seems I need to rephrase, ,wish‘ (seen as something I can quickly think about and say) might not be the correct term here, and yes, they are busy, but they are gods who can be everywhere at the same time, or is that something (the ubiquity)  I have to introduce first - but for whom?)

Problem talisman - loss - Azhira - Exception

Different attempt:


There are mainly two different views, how to get the attention of the divine beings.

In many religions, but especially in the realm of the Divine Magic like the Twelvern Faith, no tools or other means are principally needed to practise magic. (2) The gods listen to your concerns and mostly nothing else as your prayer, your outcry to them is needed to bring your desire forward. Though items like the twelvern gems (see below)  are used, they are believed (at least that‘s a dogma in clerical ranks) to only help focussing on your contact with one of the gods. As even commoners have practised their faith in this way over millenias, it is obvious for all living people in the respective regions, that faith alone is the way to god. Fails the prayer of an Aeruillin priest, he will first think, that his good deeds were not enough and only then look for an artifact he could use to ease the contact to his god.



However, from the beginning people have sought for means to ensure, that their divine counterparts will hear their pledges. So methods have developed to deepen the contact to the them: meditation is used to get one with Seyella, one of the twelvern gods, dancing to get close to Dalireen, a hobbit deity or the ,merging‘ with the essences as the druids practise it. Artifacts or natural means like a water mirror (used by Baveras‘ aids) help to focus on the „task“.  A special „help“ in this respect are the  Santharian Twelvern or Dreamstones, as the elves call them. These are stones, which, once they are polished (and blessed), help to intensify the contacts to the gods. How they exactly work is yet unclear as so much connected with religious magic, but scholars think, that they do not open themselves a (direct) channel to the gods, but strengthen the confidence in a person that what he believes is true, that his pledges are worth to be answered. Those stones are means to not only bring the believer in an emotional state, where he can focus better on his prayer, but to let the faith grow. Therefore they are considered ,holy‘, for they pave the way to a closer connection to the god. However, why they only work when polished and blessed remains a mystery till today. (3)

Contrary to the above described, other religions rely heavily on ,items‘ without them a believer is lost. A good example e.g.  are the Kaaer‘dár‘shín half orcs who live in Caaehl'heroth (Northern Sarvonia). „The Kaaer’dár’shín believe that primal spirits of nature („yarna“) are living within each member born of the tribe. In order for Durgho ( the first god) to manifest himself through each yarna, it is required that the spirit be channeled through a physical representation known as a to'vatar.“ (8 Azhira‘s Kaaer Belief system) These to‘vatars can be carved stones, bones or wood.


Often Religious Magic shows similar results to Ximaxian Magic - or witchcraft. This leads some scholars to the assumption, that a similar process is at work and that praying is nothing more than another form of spell casting. As can be expected, many clerics object heavily (most representatives of other fractions of Religious Magic are either not able or not interested in the participation of any discussion about that matter).

Though they agree with Ximaxian scholars, that magic is a „manifestation of will“ (4), they emphasise, that in contrary to the Ximaxian belief, it is, as long as it concerns divine magic, not the „will“ of the priest alone, who sets things in motion, but the „will“ and the assent of the god who is called as well. Of course the focus of the cleric, the „will“ to solve a problem must be strong as well to change a current situation.



NOTE: Perhaps clerical magic should be replaced with Religious Magic in your entry, Art?


In his standard essay “Magic in the World of Caelereth“ (4) the sage Artimidor Federkiel describes other explanations of Religious Magic, one of these is the attempt to explain the working of Religious Magic with the concept of „believing in other possibilities“:

   „Religious Magic is the kind of magic which deals with believing in other possibilities of the aura, depending on the caster's faith in certain deities and supernatural support. Clerical Magic is original as well as meta-magic, meaning that clerics may cast either own spells but also Raw or Elemental Magic in an indirect way. What spells clerics can cast depends on their religious membership and in case other persons are involved the effect of the spell is determined by these persons' beliefs as well“.

From a clerical standpoint the above hypothesis does not contradict the faith in the gods, though it would be worded differently:  The deities or any other supernatural support (essences, spirits, ancestors) choose a different possibility according to the pledge of the respective follower.

Religious Magic in general asks very rarely (and only recently) about the „How“ of its working. It is not important how the transcendent entities bestow upon their gratitude on their followers, but that they are doing it.

Asking whether the gods of the clerical Santharia, the essences of the druids or the primal spirits of Northern Sarvonian tribes exist and whether the they or their followers themselves „do magic“ is too complex a question to explain it in more depth in a few sentences. The same is valid for the ‚problem‘ Sage Federkiel addressed in above mentioned essay:

„As a matter of fact the magical powers of practisers of Religious Magic can't be denied, but the explanation of their sources has to remain questionable - or how would it be possible that e.g.  two clerics of different cultures/races both can receive blessings of their Gods, who both often claim to not tolerate any other Gods?“ (4, p.34)

 The reader might want to take a look at below listed essays of Takor Salenar „Prayer and Spell casting“   (5) and  „Belief in Different Gods - Why does Divine Magic Work Worldwide?“ (6)[/color]






« Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 00:40:45 by Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2011, 20:45:57 »


Abilities, Limitations, Restrictions

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« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2011, 20:46:22 »


Location


Basically, a prayer can be spoken in every situation, a god can be approached in every place, the water to‘vatar  of the Kaaer‘dár‘s e.g. can be used everywhere to heal a wounded person, a druid can merge with his chosen essence wherever he wants, a to‘vatar can be used everywhere.

However, there are often preferred ways or places to worship. In many locations of Caelereth temples, sacred groves or other places are used  which are said to allow an easier contact with the gods, which help to get in the right mood for praying effectively, to forget the daily burden of life and  further the surrender to a god. 
In addition, many people have forgotten, that the gods do not restrict themselves to certain places, even if these buildings are erected for the purpose of worship exclusively.  A man from the Djíeaa-Kirrúu likely would not speak with his ancestors outside the sacred hut nor would a follower of Pariya do so outside a temple.

What could restrict the above described possibility of praying may be things as convenience (one could pray in a certain place, but may be ashamed to do so or too busy), distractions of any kind hinder the prayer to concentrate on his concern; a druid needs time and  quietness to merge and will not able to do it on the main market square of New Santhala.
As a summary we can say: Though the gods are normally worshipped in special places, there is generally no restriction in where and how to call for them.
« Last Edit: 19 June 2011, 05:10:17 by Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2011, 20:46:38 »

Work in progress, but comments welcome!



Origins


Nobody can say, if Religious Magic has a beginning. It lies in the mist of forgotten millennia like the origin of the races. For, as far as we can say, all races worshiped since the beginning of their existence powers beyond their daily experiences. No race nor tribe is known, who did not try to communicate in a way with a transcendent entity, and if they only, not able to use proper words, did something like burning essences to prevent harm done to them, be it by nature, which they might believe is the arm of a raving god or by other people, which may be seen as a curse sent by a mischievous divine being.
These transcendent counterparts  - so many scholars believe - developed into gods or spirits eventually. The druids though went another way: They tried to overcome the gap between them and their divine beings by eleminating it at all - by merging with it. But most advanced  tribes try to actually speak to their gods, asking them for a favour - the prayer and with it Divine Magic is born, though this form was of course not recognised as such. As another form of religious magic, apart from prayer, the only recently researched ,Seeing‘ of the Troll shamans should be mentioned.***(add link to trolls, death rites ?)

Divine Magic was, at least in Southern Sarvonia, for a long time not considered as magic at all, though the priests often accomplished things not unlike that of secular mages.  But it was never seen as so mysterious and unknown as profane magic. One was accustomed to it and that was  the difference which led to the acceptance which Ximaxian magic has not had until today.

Only because what clerics did was labeled as prayer and not as spell it can be explained, why after the War of the Chosen priests were not as detested as mages. Everybody still prayed to the gods and asked the priests for their benefits - like healing, finding water, blessing the fields or preventing a bad harvest by asking a priest of Grothar to push the clouds away. This was seen as prayer - not magic. As far as we know today, this did not change over the millennia until the magic academy in Ximax was founded again 621b.S.

When this school of magic was opened by Xarl Bluestride, a lot of research was conducted to answer the (theoretical) question as to how some achievements of mages resemble so closely what priest can do when praying like pushing clouds away when a harvest is threatened or gathering them when a drought takes its toll on the lives of the people.
In an essay which is unfortunately lost today,  Lohoán Windsweeper the Great,  a Ximaxian archmage who wrote about this matter, created the word „Divine Magic“ and it was soon used by all mages, though it took a few centuries till the council of the Twelvern priest accepted it and used it for themselves.

It is not known, when and how Druidic Magic evolved. One theory claims, that it is an offshoot of elven magic. Pikel Thunderstorm, one of the rare druids writing for the Compendium tells in his essay about Druidic Magic: „Some say that Druidic Magic was wrought of humans trying to mimic the elven way of life, and thus their magic, which is heavily based on the immanent magic of nature itself, not so much their outside manipulation. The largest similarity between the two being that both the elven and Druidic Magics go directly to the heart of the element, while the Ximaxian approach manipulates in a more indirect fashion. While similarities can be seen between the two lifestyles, there has yet to be definitive proof that Druidic Magic was born this way.“*** (Footnote!)

Druidic Magic was mostly practised in so so remote places, that it was not noticed, or it was not understood, that this was a kind of magic also, so most times it was fairly safe.
 
Spirit Magic however shared often persecution with the secular pre-Ximaxian magic. In contrary, where Ximaxian magic gained reputation again, Spirit Magic was often mixed up with Wild Magic and  Witchcraft and shunned throughout all levels of the society.
(---> Spirit magic where? Kaaer? Where they persecuted because of their Magic? Or too far away?)


In our modern time scholars foment discussion among non-believers or believers, clerics or non-clerics, as to whether there is a true difference between Ximaxian magic and Divine Magic and where there are the main differences to religious Magic in general, if there are some at all. They also question whether all magic can be described in Ximaxian terms as well, if not priests cast with their prayers spells and worshippers of Dhurgo use xxxx magic * though they have a different way of doing it. That there is no interaction of the gods needed, no spirits live in a Kaaer, but that only the will of the „caster“ does the trick, that this „will“ manipulates the world as does a mage with spells. (See discussions under ‚basic principles‘.)

* What Ximaxian school would describe what the Kaaer people do with their to‘vatars?

However, how this discussion will end and what for results are found - it will not affect the beliefs in the gods, nor let an Kaaer doubt Yarna. Even if in the centuries to come Ximax finds out, that prayers work either with changing the ca‘rall and pushing ounia around as well or altering the possibilities“, who can prove, that it was the will of the priest (or any person who prays) who did this and not the the worshipped divine entity? After a long life as a mage and a cleric alike, I have come to the conclusion, that the gods in which I have set my faith, or the counterparts Avá has granted other races or tribes, if not she, the Dreameress herself, are the originators of  the laws of the Ximaxian magic, the laws the mages have just started to find out.

Note to Art:
Quote
(Question: You seem to speak mostly of rather "unspectacular" spells, so my question is, as we're dealing in a fantasy world here: Do you also mean that e.g. someone can pray for a door to be opened by a good and it would occur? Or let's say: A typical Ximaxian spell is triggered to protect someone, like a firewall. Just curious, as we might to have to make more distinction here and clarify things.)

I think I should add some more examples, but maybe I should do this later, when more are developed. I don‘t think small though ;) To your door example. I don‘t think, that someone would pray for a door to be opened by a god, just because his hands are full and he can‘t use the handle. But, if the door would be locked and he would die, if it would not open, then yes.

Takór Salenár
(Methar)

Edit: Today, sunday, yellow
« Last Edit: 19 June 2011, 17:48:17 by Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2011, 20:47:22 »

 
Footnotes

*Disambiguation: (???)

Religious Magic: All magic which describes interaction of sentient beings with an (assumed) transcendent being, a god, essences, ancestors etc..

Divine Magic: All magic which sees a god as its counterpart, includes clerical magic, but also magic an ordinary person may perform

Clerical magic: The magic of Priests

Spirit magic:
Shamanistic magic
Druidic Magic
Ancestor magic

,divine‘  is used throughout for all transcendent beings

Referenced Books or Essays

(1) Viresse: „Clerical Magic“ (Note from the editor: A Ximaxian View) , New Santhala 1662 a. S. , Great Santharian Library

(2)
Please note the use of the word „practise“. Other verbs as „achieve“ or even „cast“ would not be approbate here, for the cleric does not cast spells, nor it is his „achievement“ if the magic succeeds - after the belief of the clerics it is the god who does the miracle or grants you your wish which is brought forward with a prayer e.g..

(3)
Artimidor Federkiel: „The Twelvern Gems“, New Santhala, 1667 a. S. , Great Santharian Library

(4)
See also the standard essay of Artimidor Federkiel „Magic in the World of Caelereth“ where he speaks about magic as follows: „...that the essence of magic is mainly manifestation of will - and it is this principle on which all other magical theories are based.“

(5) Takór Salenár: „Prayer and Spell casting“, Milkengrad 1663a. S. , Great  Library of Elsreth An answer to the publishing of the Ximaxian view of prayers by the compendium-writer Viresse. (1) It deals with the Santharian Viarían magic, but is generally applicable to many Divine Magic world-wide.

(6) „Belief in Different Gods - Why does Divine Magic Work Worldwide?“ Milkengrad 1664 a. S. , Great  Library of Elsreth.

I have to rewrite this, somehow it didn‘t work anymore when I read it again. Too many similarities! ;)

(7) “Morals in prayers“ by XXX. [i]Who wants to write it? [/i]


Further Recommended Readings:


The Viarian Magic...

.... the list of Religious magic out of the magical organisation?



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« Reply #8 on: 08 June 2011, 20:48:36 »

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« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2011, 20:55:22 »

Is it too early to start pelting you with comments?

Would my Antislar magic come under this heading?  They attribute it to Koraya, so....

I need to get back to fully fleshing that out... rolleyes
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« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2011, 21:11:42 »

Comments are welcome to the parts I posted. I don't know yet enough of your Antislar magic. You tell me, where it would fit in :)
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« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2011, 22:57:26 »

This was only supposed to describe Santharian (Avanian/Twelvern) magic right? Because Kaaer divine magic is a whole different concept apart from Santharian clerics.
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« Reply #12 on: 08 June 2011, 23:00:18 »

No, this was always a general overview, the Twelvern Magic (should still be somewhere under 'viarian magic', I think) comes extra, was already finished, but needs to be adapted to some of the newer developments. I just was a bit too much focused on Santharia, but hope I have eliminated it now. Just look at the old submission.

Edit: Read it and tell me, what is wrong concerning your tribe :)
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« Reply #13 on: 10 June 2011, 06:35:59 »

I never thought I'd live to see the day when this was actually almost complete!  :P

As far as comments go, exactly what are you looking for at this stage in the game?  Do you just want answers to your various questions, general critique of the content, and grammar/spelling errors, or just one of the above?
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« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2011, 20:29:45 »

It has been nearly finished at one stage! Hey!

No grammar check yet, not until all is approved!

Well, all of that. What I posted already, is, so I hope, more or less done.

The rest I will post next week, as soon as I'm back home, and there I will have some questions, for there I'm stuck.

What I mentioned already above though - Nybelmarian religious magic is not yet included, for when I started this, there did not exist something like that... I would prefer to add it at a later time. I would like to have hints though, where it would fit into the she me, where not. E.G do all religions believe in the interaction of at least some of their gods with the sentient races?
I'm a bit afraid, if I start now reading through all what  we have now in Nybelmar, that this submission will come to no end this year. However, if you thin it is fairly easy, maybe I give it a go.

Thanks :)
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