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Author Topic: R'unorian Studies 102- Tribes and Relations  (Read 5214 times)
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Valan Nonesuch
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« on: 24 June 2011, 12:08:04 »

    Moving on from the previous thread, now that the basics have been hammered out, the list of R'unorian "facts" has changed.

    R'unor has four human tribes and a not insubstantial orcish/half-orcish population.
    These tribes are highly stratified in their positions within society. They also aren't all human or all of a kind. There's been a lot of intermingling of various and sundry racial and tribal stock throughout their society.

    The R'mart tribe are the rulers, nobility and priesthood of the kingdom. They occupy most of the positions of traditional power. The R'mart are descended from the original Santerran population, and the remaining Kayrhem after the protracted and bloody war with the orcs. They live longer than the other tribes, the empresses easily living for a hundred years. They've inherited a few different elvish views (most obviously patience and the willingness to simply outlive a problem) but are otherwise *very* human.

    The Blaar'kr form a quasi-militia. 75% of all Blaar have some form of military training, whether as engineers, healers, siege operators, quartermasters, cavalry or simple grunts. All of these know that if they may one day be called upon to die. Otherwise, the Blaar'kr is the average townsperson. They are responsible for things getting done in R'unor. The Blaar'kr bloodline has had a healthy infusion of orcish blood, the result of mutual rape and murder during the Orc War, which has given them an odd colouration. Typically, one's standing within the community is determined by to what degree they demonstrate orcish characteristics.

    The Phthia (F-th-ee-aa) are to R'unor what the caltharians and avvenorians are to santharia. They fish, they sail, they construct (or train) boats, and they form the larger part of R'unor's navy. These are about as close to the original Santerran stock as can be found.

    The Fourth (as of yet unnamed) tribe are generally the merchants, diplomats, tailors, spies, tinkers, scholars and middling roles of educated persons within society. They are also the R'unorian tribe most often found abroad and the least xenophobic of the four. There has been aggressive intermingling of other tribes, both R'unorian and non-R'unorian, within the Fourth and they exhibit a sort of everyman characteristic as a result. One might find an individuals with the facial features of a korweynite, the colouration of a gondolman and the build of a kassite. Most of the tribe is rather mongrelized which means they fit in just about anywhere.

    The orcs and half orcs are the most necessary and the lowest members of society. They do most of the manual labour on average, along with the Blaar'kr.

Information on Site:
  • R'unor contains orcs that have been assimilated into a largely human culture.
  • Human-orc inter-breeding has occured.
  • The kingdom was at some point, unified into its present shape.
  • The mountains are named in Styrash.
  • The R'unorians have a paranoid, xenophobic culture as of the present, and have reason to assassinate each other.
  • The Blaar'kr make up more than one half of 'nine' human tribes.
  • R'unor possess both advanced magic and technology "to rival the Aeoliran (Memnoor) Brownies"
  • R'unorian culture is matriarchal
  • R'unorian culture possess a word equivalent to harem.
  • R'unorian government was once an absolute monarchy
What can be inferred from what is on site:
  • Humans have assimilated elements of orcish culture (the names of one or two of the gods sound distinctly orcish)
  • Orcs might have been technically advanced.
  • R'unor is not rich in iron, either because it is difficult to obtain or short in supply.
  • There is something of incredible value in or around the city of Bluesteel.
  • Bluesteel may or may not be devoted to mining.
  • R'unor may have had elves at some point.
  • R'unor has not always been a coherent political entity.
Decisions/Answers from the R'unorian Basics Discussion
  • The racial/tribal background of the R'unorian tribes is largely Santerran
  • The R'unorians split off from the modern Santerrans during their migration
  • R'unor was once a Kayrhem colony following the War of the Chosen
  • The R'unorian Kayr were diminished following a war with the orcs
  • The remaining Kayr interbred with the ancestors of the R'mart

Proposals from the R'unorian basics discussion
  • The Proposed Timeline
9000-3600: Disillusioned Kayrhem in control of R'unor.
3600-3500: Orcs arrive on R'unor, bloodshed begins
ca. 3500: Migrant Santerrans arrive on R'unor
ca. 3300: Most of the orcs dead. Kayrhem diminished. Humans scatter to the other islands
ca. 3250: R'mart and Blaar'kr subjugate the remaining orcs.
ca. 3200: Unification of R'unor begins
ca. 3175: R'unor (island) unified, Lurker Beetles domesticated
ca. 3000: R'unor unified, first Empress
ca. 2500: Turtle dreadnoughts
  • Drifting/Moving R'unor over 10000 years
    Questions for RS102
    • Do these tribes make sense?
    • What should the fourth human tribe be called?
    • Where could the tribes be improved?
    • Where did the orcs come from?
    • How do they interact with other tribes, both internally, and externally with Nybelmarians and Sarvonians?
    • How long has the status quo between R'unor, Aca-Santerra, Gondolith and Anis-Anapagan existed?
    • How has it been preserved?
    • What trade goods does R'unor have available?
    • Who do they trade with?
    • What do they trade for?
    « Last Edit: 03 July 2011, 08:53:12 by Valan Nonesuch » Logged

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    « Reply #1 on: 24 June 2011, 12:22:47 »

    Proposed R'unorian Relations


    Aca-Santerra: Each thinks the other is a group of godless heretics. They compete over sea power and control of the waters around the Crimson Isles. Santerrans believe that the R'unorians only continue to exist because they may be worshiping a wergen that allows them control of the formidable turtle-beasts.
    R'unorians believe that the Santerrans are militaristic, expansionist zealots and must be stopped. Santerrans are not permitted on R'unorian soil.
    Both would prefer to see Gondolith removed from the playing field but is unwilling to ally with anyone else in order to do so.

    R'unor-Anis-Anapagan: R'unor dislikes Anis-Anapagan's attempt to claim the Crimson Isles as it interferes with the exclusivity of the trade they have with Sarvonia.
    The Anapagans see R'unor as another Aca-Santerra, militarily powerful, much too religious, serious and bossy.
    Both realize that the presence of the other in the Sarvonian markets may be a necessary evil, but want to mitigate their reach as much as possible. Either one would be pleased to see the other removed from the playing field but both are unwilling to commit to war, knowing the Santerrans would likely swoop in afterwards.


    Gondolith and Allies: They see R'unor as proud, over-bearing, condescending, propped up only by their slightly superior military, treachery and backstabbing
    R'unor sees them as upstarts, rabble-rousing heathens, believes that it's only a matter of time before either they or Aca-Santerra manages to remove their foothold in north-western Nybelmar. Both R'unor and Gondolmith compete over grain from Lorney.
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    Deklitch Hardin
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    « Reply #2 on: 24 June 2011, 16:49:51 »

    Fascinating stuff, Valan ... yes, I'm channelling my inner Vulcan. evil

    Just some thoughts on it from me.

    Quote
    Typically, one's standing within the community is determined by to what degree they demonstrate orcish characteristics.

    By this do you mean
    - R'unorian Community or Blaar'kr community? or both?
    - is it better to demonstrate more or less orcish characteristics (ie ... are they considered higher in the community (whatever community it is) if they have more or less orcish characteristics) - maybe they could even be considered higher with more orcish characteristics within Blaar'kr and lower with more orcish characteristics within the wider R'unorian community. (and vice versa) ... or maybe it depends on whether it is war or peace (war --> ^ orcish characteristics = ^ status and peace --> ^ orcish characteristics = \/status)

    Are your ideas for the R'Mart tribe (why do I feel the urge to call them the K Mart Tribe?) too similar to that religious tribe from the Kanapan peninsular? I don't think so ... but thought I should bring it up. Also, are the R'Mart to be considered half elves? Or just humans with limited elven blood?

    As the Blaar'kr tribe has orcish characteristics ... what is the difference between this tribe and the half orcs? Are you perhaps having your half orcs as followiing the D&D perspective of them having to have one human and one orcish parent to be called half orc? Are they just human/orc crossbreeds or can some be elf/orc halfbreeds.

    I will no doubt have some further questions for you regarding this later, Valan, but wanted to post these for you now :D

    Edit: Another question that just came to me ... lucky you Valan evil what do the different R'unorian tribes think of each other?

    Now, I'm on my way home ... which means I'll have between 30 and 40 minutes or so to think of more questions to annoy you with ... you must be thinking it is your lucky day, Valan ... evil
    « Last Edit: 24 June 2011, 17:55:37 by Deklitch Hardin » Logged

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    Valan Nonesuch
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    « Reply #3 on: 24 June 2011, 22:22:14 »

    - R'unorian Community or Blaar'kr community? or both?
    The overall R'unorian community, less so the Blaar community.
    Quote
    - is it better to demonstrate more or less orcish characteristics (ie ... are they considered higher in the community (whatever community it is) if they have more or less orcish characteristics) - maybe they could even be considered higher with more orcish characteristics within Blaar'kr and lower with more orcish characteristics within the wider R'unorian community.
    On average, the Blaar are more accepting of the orcish/demi-orcish population than others. Specific traits are considered less desirable. Fangs, for instance.
    Quote
    Are your ideas for the R'Mart tribe (why do I feel the urge to call them the K Mart Tribe?) too similar to that religious tribe from the Kanapan peninsular? I don't think so ... but thought I should bring it up. Also, are the R'Mart to be considered half elves? Or just humans with limited elven blood?
    The R'mart are, depending on the individual, best described as "demi-elves". The average member of the R'mart tribe is equivalent to the seventh or eighth geneartion Kayr-Santerran hybrid where only human stock has been added. The total percentage of elvish blood at this point is between 1.5 and 0.78% on average. At 1.5 however, they still live an average of ten years longer than a non-R'mart and five years longer at 0.78. It takes eleven generations of strictly human input to completely mitigate one infusion of elvish blood. There are probably completely human "R'mart" but they wouldn't be recognized as such.

    The nobility on the other hand, resemble a fifth or sixth generation Kayr-Santerran hybrid with between 6.25 and 3 percent Kayr blood. They live remarkably long for humans, between 120 and 95 years. Though I haven't crunched the numbers for 3%.

    The imperial lineage has a whopping 12%
    Quote
    As the Blaar'kr tribe has orcish characteristics ... what is the difference between this tribe and the half orcs? Are you perhaps having your half orcs as followiing the D&D perspective of them having to have one human and one orcish parent to be called half orc? Are they just human/orc crossbreeds or can some be elf/orc halfbreeds.
    elf/orc crossbreeds are typically unfeasible. The Chyrakisth are magically generated hybrids, so they don't exactly count. The exact definition of half-orc would either be a human/orc child at 50/50, or as with the Kaaer, a race of humans/orcs (depending on how you look at it) that exhibit human/orc characterstics but breeds true. The Blaar'kr are demi-hemi-semi-orcs by comparison. For the most part the orcish blood in the average Blaar'kr is more dilute than that of the Kaaer. On average we're talking 0.5% There are a few where orcish blood has gotten mixed back in again, but anything below 6%

    Quote
    Edit: Another question that just came to me ... lucky you Valan evil what do the different R'unorian tribes think of each other?
    The R'mart, on average, see the other tribes as needing to be guided, and see themselves as heirs to the Kayr that led them against the orcs. Other R'mart are of course, less suited to lead than the particular R'mart having those thoughts, on average. They feel that the Blaar'kr know their place, as a strong right arm that doesn't ask questions.
    The Blaar'kr look to the R'mart for leadership, traditionally. Unless proven otherwise, a R'mart in a group of Blaar'kr is assumed to be the leader. They see the other tribes are useful, but a little too rebellious and consider the Fourth to be little more than a collection of bastards and mongrels. Though they wouldn't say that to their faces.
    The Phthia think the R'mart are good at providing direction, but actual leadership, particularly in matters naval, is beyond them. They mock the Blaar for their inability to swim or sail but respect their agricultural skills and construction ability. They dislike the Fourth, mostly because they're also capable of building boats
    The Fourth dislike the Blaar'kr and Phthia for their militaristic tendencies, and think the R'mart are self-obsessed zealots with a general affection for backstabbing and scheming. On a whole they find the other tribes to be paranoid, much to serious and religious.
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    « Reply #4 on: 24 June 2011, 23:25:57 »

    I protest more half-orcs!  buck
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    « Reply #5 on: 24 June 2011, 23:30:09 »

    Mine were here first buck

    Like I said, hemi-demi-semi-orcs is closer to the mark. Just the result of prolonged interaction and cultural assimilation of an orcish population. The actual half-orc population of R'unor is easily less than 1%
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    « Reply #6 on: 26 June 2011, 02:02:18 »

    How about making the orcish blood a Santharian "scientific" theory because these weird humans exhibit characteristics of orcs, have a green tint in their skin and because of said elven blood pointish ears?  Imo would be more interesting to elevate them to a unique culture which suffers from getting a hack job by Santharian intellectuals trying to shove them into categories Santharians would find logic but actually fall short of the truth (a bit like 19th century "racescientists" who designated Asians and American Indians yellow and red people respectively because some of them favoured these colors and might have used bodypaint).

    For the elves I would make vague pointers to a lower elven kind. The Kar are technically only the Lightelves and their woodelf followers in the Emerald forests. They are kind of unlikely to do any searfaring adventures. They also developed out of other elven tribes. Overall the thing me and Smith tried to accomplish was that the tribes and nations developed overtime so I think at the dawn of time there is only a fuzzy concept about Nybelmarian elves scattered about and only latter more defined structures start to appear as groups unite or split up. Don't know how far that development continued after my departure though.

    Similarily I'd only suggest that the Santerrans share blood relations with the settlers of R'unor but at that time Santerrans didn't really exist as they only differentiated from the people inhabiting the southeastern coast much later. They might originate from the same spot but after several thousand years those origins would still have caused very different outcome. Maybe the R'unorian being a matriachat is a sign of that since the Santerrans are technically, too (priesthood all female and technically above kings in the pecking order)


    Overall I'd include more fuzzy guessing by not so scientitic scientists. The overarching aim should be the fleshing out of R'unor as its own distinct culture. Overall I don't think definite calls on what is what actually would fit the mood.  However wild guesses trying to explain a weird or foreign culture,... we know that humans do that all the time. Maybe even put more of their past into a foggy mystery.

    Maybe void influences actually change the distance or makeup of the oceans around R'unor physically changing the travel distance between R'unor and other places on a more random basis than actual continental shift?

    Just a couple of thoughts. Maybe other Nybelmarians have a bigger grasp on the current  genealogy of tribes. I just remembered that I once put together a vague family tree for elves and the Kar were just a result of that and not the actual beginning.

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    « Reply #7 on: 26 June 2011, 02:25:35 »

    Mine were here first buck

    Like I said, hemi-demi-semi-orcs is closer to the mark. Just the result of prolonged interaction and cultural assimilation of an orcish population. The actual half-orc population of R'unor is easily less than 1%

    Ok that makes me feel better. I just don't want to have to put so much work in a half-orc tribe in the North only to have a similar one elsewhere, kinda minimizes my tribe. The fact R'unor was there first is irrelevant, they weren't developed by you from the ground up like my tribe has been.

    You'll understand soon now that you have your own tribe to play god with.  thumbup
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    « Reply #8 on: 28 June 2011, 01:26:52 »

    So we don't have to respect anything that was on the site previously. Great lol

    Coren, if I can get a yay-nay on the proposed relations between tribes it would be great.

    Now to go draft turtleboats.
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    « Reply #9 on: 28 June 2011, 02:49:07 »

    Can I get back to you on that - say around Wednesday?
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    « Reply #10 on: 28 June 2011, 03:21:06 »

    That'd be fine. Just wanted to make sure you'd seen it.
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    « Reply #11 on: 29 June 2011, 03:52:21 »

    So we don't have to respect anything that was on the site previously. Great lol

    ...

    No, respect what was on the site but outdated entries like those - or mine - were written in a different context than the Santharian world is today so sticking to outdated ideas even if the concept might not be applicable or doesn't have the ring anymore just causes further headaches. As I said there's plenty of room to make a nod or hommage to the original concept without being worn down by it.
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    « Reply #12 on: 05 July 2011, 00:18:32 »

    At the moment, work is being done on trade, just as a way of determining what can/can't/should be developed.

    Possible R'unorian trade goods

    Windsong/bamboo: Grows back quickly, use in construction, instruments, etc.
    Glass/Nor'sidian: The R'unorians are going to be very good at glassworking. But I think something like pyrex
    - Fun fact: An edge made of obsidian is sharper/smoother than one of surgical steel. Obsidian is sharp!
    Lacquerware: no real reason for this, other than the lack of similar.
    Exotic fruits/animals
    -Ash Fruit: originally written with the intent of it being a R'unorian name for olive but could be anything at this point. Maybe a pepper.
    Salt: there was a sort of obtuse reference in one of Xenos' posts outlining R'unorian things about the city of Bluesteel evaporating salt from seawater. While Bluesteel (what with the attacks by migratory drakes) might not be ideal, salt is a fairly valuable commodity.

    What R'unor doesn't have:
    Iron: Not a big deal. In most cases it can be replaced with another metal or with nor'sidian.
    Land: This is the big one and probably why they want the grain from Lorney.
    Wood: There are only two forests of any appreciable size on the islands (at the moment). Lumber could be an appreciable trade good
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    « Reply #13 on: 12 January 2012, 08:40:21 »

    We don't have Nybelmarian devs any more! Where does this leave me?
    Trying to piece together the interactions of an entire kingdom and the tribes thereof without backup.

    So where was I with this.

    Right, working on the interactions. Let's jump back to Dek's questions from earlier and elaborate from there maybe?
    Starting with the summary of the top.

    R'mart
    The R'mart are prideful. They're a little different from the average human because other than the most debased example, (lower than 3%, several generations of human only breeding away from the original half-elven stock) they're all going to live longer than everyone else. This is advantageous for R'unor as a whole, because it means that the ruling class tends to take the longer view of things. On the other hand, they are "less than" (or "more than" depending on what view you want to take) human. That longevity does interfere with the way that they view others. Arrogance and pride go hand in hand when dealing with the R'mart. They're also prone to holding grudges, and with their longer lifespans, they're willing to wait to see someone get their comeuppance in the worst possible way. The R'mart are educated from birth that they are intended to rule. A sort of "birthright" and this attitude permeates the larger part of the tribe.

    Blaar'kr
    The R'mart and Blaar are essentially one and the same. The head, and the arm, so to speak. Where R'mart provide direction and guidance and, when necessary, threats, the Blaar'kr provid the brute force and numbers to follow through.
    Blaar'kr are a little on the order of being indoctrinated to understand their "place" in the grand scheme of things. The Blaar'kr are trained to look up to the R'mart as better than them, and look to them for guidance. This is aided by the fact that most of their superiors will be R'mart, particularly in the military. The R'mart are happy to have the Blaar'kr in their place and use them as a tool. They're the hammer that does the building of the kingdom, and the sword that enforces order. The clever R'mart are also aware that without the Blaar'kr, the entire kingdom would fall out of their control very quickly

    P'thia
    The P'thia are more independent than the R'mart owing to the fact that they have more peaceful interactions with other cultures. The R'mart excercise their control of the P'thia through religion, for the most part, with the Blaar'kr kept as a last resort.. The R'mart know that the P'thia are neccessary to control the seas, since none of the other of the other tribes possess the know-how. The R'mart consider the P'thia not as a tool, but as an animal to be domesticate, much like a guard dog. The P'thia function in the same manner as the Blaar'kr do, in the hands of the R'mart, only directed outward towards other nations. The P'thia are a little more superstitious than the other R'unorian tribes. Faster to run to the gods if things start going wrong, a trait the R'mart have encouraged. As the greater part of the priesthood, the R'mart control them through their fear of the divine.

    Four
    The fourth tribe is the worry of the R'mart. They're clever, and in many ways the mirror image of their rulers. Clever, though not especially long lived, manipulative, of mixed stock (all of them). The fourth are the academics, the diplomats and, when neccessary, spies of the kingdom and as such they're a little more open to other ideas than either the P'thia or the Blaar'kr. They have to be to function effectively in the role the R'mart want them to fill. The thing that really keeps them in check is the pressure of three other tribes and their own internal squabbling.

    Orcs
    The orcs of R'unor are considered to be, subhuman. Despite nominally having the same rights and privileges as any other citizen of the empire, the R'mart encourage the debasement of the orcs as a matter of course. The R'mart use the orcs a bit like an ox. They have a place in the empire doing the work that no one else wants, and they dearly wish that the orcs remain subjugated to avoid further incidents. Orcs are not given formal burials and are are kept largely separate from "mainstream" R'unorian society when possible.


    I think that gives me a solid ground to work with, but it's brought to light one of the problems with the tribes at this point. Namely that neither the R'unorian orcs or the fourth human tribe has a formal name.
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    « Reply #14 on: 12 January 2012, 09:49:03 »

    Um... R'unorcs, of course.

    (skips quickly out the door lest Valan hurl a bag of knives at her)

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    Members
    Total Members: 1040
    Latest: leaftanya12
    Stats
    Total Posts: 144681
    Total Topics: 11052
    Online Today: 69
    Online Ever: 226
    (06 November 2012, 05:38:23)
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    Users: 0
    Guests: 40
    Total: 40

    Last 10 Shouts:
    14 September 2017, 09:40:04
    Hello all! It's been a minute since I poked my nose in here. Can't remember if I ever did anything useful.
    09 May 2017, 14:17:18
    Ah, too bad that internet is so restricted in China, Ferra. Can't be much fun surfing the web that way if Big Brother's watching you... Hope you enjoy your stay nevertheless!
    03 May 2017, 17:41:19
    Hi, dear Arti and other developers!

    This year I am in China and cannot use any Google services including YouTube. For this reason I stopped uploading new Nepris videos. I can also not read any comments there.

    It just crossed my mind that this information might be useful to you.

    Cheers

    F
    26 March 2017, 12:48:56
    Hello to anyone that might read this. :)
    22 December 2016, 02:38:16
    Merry Christmas everyone!
    29 November 2016, 01:45:48
    Hey all!
    11 November 2016, 09:19:02
    Calling all developers; come help me write the New-Santhala article ^^
    15 September 2016, 02:24:10
    Still no problems here, Erutan...
    14 September 2016, 14:55:28
    Still having trouble accessing the RPG side, anyone else? Or is it just me?
    27 August 2016, 21:17:33
    Short note: We had a bit of downtime Friday/Saturday night due to a server change. Site went online first, message boards took a while longer - now everything should be back to normal.
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