Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« on: 25 June 2011, 07:01:43 »

Ok, well, after deliberation I have decided that I would like to do my masterwork on these people, if that is possible. It would be on the tribe of Glandorians, which technically no longer exists (they were absorbed by the Kanapans) and as they are my focus I think it is fitting that they are my masterwork.

These are my notes so far; please say if this is workable.

Appearance
-Shorter than Avennorians (here I contradict the Kanapan entry, but the descent of the Avennorians makes little to no sense otherwise)
-Blond hair, pale skin, blue-grey eyes

Coat of Arms
-An double-axe with a long haft bottom left to top right on a circular field (found embossed on a shield in the city of Margith, believed to belong to the Konig.)

Territory
-Peninsula of Glandor, plus varying amounts of the Kanapan lands through history.

People
-Militaristic
-Seafaring
-Sort of Germanic-Norse as a culture
-Emphasis upon bravery in battle

Housing
-Wooden/Stone
-Log cabins
-Long and low buildings
-Pegged together like clinker-built ships
-Carved representations of people/animals

Clothing
-Skins
-Furs
-Wool - Sheep, Goat.

Diet
-Fish
-Mutton/goat

Weapons
-Axes/long knives
-Iron mines in north of peninsula - depleted by now
-Not of highest quality; blades from time of Fá'áv'cál'âr prized

Occupations
-Warriors/raiders
-Raided Kanapans
-Smiths
-Fishermen
-Priests -rtd. warriors?
-Sailors
(-Pirates)

Government
- Hjarl was originally a title granted to the king's most senior war officers
-Later a title granted to retired
-Sons of Hjarls were quickly promoted by dint of birth
-Konig elected from among the Hjarls

Production/Trade
-Wood
-Shipbuilding
(-Mercenaries)

Natural Resources
-Wood fairly plentiful (depleted by now)
-Iron in the North
-Sheep and goats; wool, meat, milk
Holidays/Festivals
None as yet

Language
A sort of Norse-Germanic language in its relationship to Tharian, where Tharian is of course British English. See here for more details.

Nomenclature
-Names formed from the language
-Usually two parts
-Eg "Thorulf" - Strong Wolf; "Wiganulf" - War Wolf etc.

Important Achievements
-Affected Kanapan relations greatly
-Ciosa; hence Avennoria

History
11,900 b.S. - Fa'av'cal'ar human naval force lands in Glandor peninsula and drive out native Kanapans. Led by Glandor, later Konig Glandor the Stouthearted.
11,875 b.S. - Glandor dies. He is succeeded by Konig Thorulth the Old (so called because he was 30 when he came to the throne).
11,850 b.S. - First Kanapan-Glandor War lasts five years. The Glandorians have encroached on Kanapan tribes and the tribes make a temporary alliance to deal with them. Despite superior training and a core of warriors armed with Fa'av'cal'ar-era weapons, the Glandorians are overwhelmed by numbers and are kept on their peninsula. This leads to raids for the next centuries.
11,800 b.S. - Konig Lamskun the Warrior deals with a rebellion in the north of the Peninsula and puts it down brutally. The rebels had metal weapons; iron mines are found and the Glandorians are equipped with metal weapons (low quality, think Remusian blades)
11,790 b.S. - A fleet of three Glandorian boats sacks a village in Kanapan, and fight the first sea battle of the on and off Kanapan conflict.
11,765 b.S. - It is made illegal in Glandor to trade weapons to the Kanapans for any price, in order to keep their metal weapons a military edge.
11,760 b.S. - One of the Kanapan tribes pays a Glandorian captain for the services of his score of warriors in a war with another tribe, starting a tradition of hiring Glandorian mercenaries. The law against selling weapons is tightened, and dead men's weapons must be returned.
11,550 b.S. - Start of the "Fifty Year War", in which Glandorians and Kanapans fight a series of bloody campaigns, crippling three generations in both lands. Also known as the Second Kanapan-Glandor War.
11,500 b.S. - The start of the "Great Peace", which lasted over a millennium, and grew out of the horrors of the "Fifty Year War".
MEDIUM GAP NEEDS TO BE FILLED
11,350 b.S. - Ciosa journeys south with an exploring fleet
10,425 b.S. - The Third Kanapan-Glandor War lasts for just a year or two but marks the end of the Great Peace.
BIG GAP NEEDS TO BE FILLED
1,649 b.S. - Year of Darkness, in which Glandorian faith in their Gods is all but lost
1,645 b.S. - The iron mines of Glandor run out, convincing many that their Gods have abandoned them. The great forests are also thinned.
1,500 b.S. - The new religious fanaticism of the Kanapans finds surprisingly easy converts in Glandor, and their military power has only grown as that of Glandor has waned. The Kanapans have found low-quality iron and their numbers now tell

Religion
- Worship of Hanranns and Meanra as God and Goddess of Land and Sea respectively.
- Fate seen as a shipwright; sexless and often faceless; older and more powerful
- Depictions of the Gods often have them as twin figureheads of the ship which Fate builds.
- "Fate" translation of Glandorian "Gjord"

Military
-Well-trained and well armed relative to Kanapans
-Heavily naval and individualistic; war leaders were granted large freedom over their movements even in times of war, and most were either pirates or mercenaries, especially during the Great Peace.

Ath


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Kalta'hnk - My ramblings on anything to do with the Glandorians - The Glandorian Men (Proposal)

Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2011, 22:03:02 »

I fixed the formatting; some additional facts so you can see where I'm coming from:

I'm taking the "Ancient Glandorians" to be the tribe from their arrival after Fa'av'cal'ar until their adoption of Kanapan culture and religion, which I've put as being after the Year of Darkness and the arrival of Lofurno.
All things considered, I think the most similar Terran culture is an Old Norse one, based on the Avennorians, their seafaring roots and the Avennorian names

Ath


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #2 on: 27 June 2011, 06:12:16 »

Looks like it's going to be a massive masterwork, Ath! I guess you've been around here long enough to know that a shorter enterprise would also qualify to get you membership status; but if your heart is set on this, you have my blessing.

Unfortunately, I don't have much expertise in this part of Santharian history (nor indeed do I have expertise in any part of Santharian history ...), but your overview looks well thought-through to me, and I'll be following developments with interest.

Since you are poetically skilled, a Glandorian occupation you might consider adding is that of "poet" - or, to stay with your theme: "skald"? These skalds could sing to motivate your raiders for battle, provide entertainment in long dark nights on ship or land, bless each vessel with a poem before a journey, tell the seafarers of the deeds of their ancestors, etc. etc.? Poetry/songs could be the vehicle for remembrance of great deeds, and thereby also provide the motivation for warriors to risk their lives: for it is easier to face the possibility of death if you can hope that you may attain immortality through your deeds, when you can imagine that your name will be sung by the skalds many generations hence? (If you've read Beowulf, you know where I've got that idea from ...)

I even wondered whether you actually need "priests" in your culture. Maybe poets could fill this role to some extent? (But I don't know what has already been determined in this regard in previous entries.)

Anyway, this is just an idea. Good luck with the work!


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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #3 on: 28 June 2011, 03:30:42 »

Hey Ath, looks cool so far!

The only thing you might want to change is that about their arrival. When Art and I did those migration maps we thought it would make more sense, if they came earlier, probably over land. I posted a proposal how to alter this (and the height) in the typos thread, but Art did not get around to doing it so far.

Have a look at this post by me : (Posted on: 24 May 2011, 09:25:12)
http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php?action=post;topic=5580.0

And here is the Link to the Migration Maps

Basically it says this:

Quote

Changes necessary to entries on the site:

- Glandorians came before the Kanapans to the Kanapan peninsula (between 13.000 and 12.0000).
- The Kanapans came after the Fall of Fá'áv'cál'âr and part of the Glandorians moved to Cyhalloi (Kasumarii?), another part moved to found Ciosa (they became later the Avennorians), the rest remained and was integrated into the Kanapan society (Eferme subtribe).

Hope it does is not too contradicting to what you had in mind. This way you have enough time to develop a kingdom and let if decline again with the arrival of the black Kanapans.

About the Kasumari'i, that was just a thought. That's up to you and Val, what you are doing with it. Maybe the got extinct on Cyllahoi also, didn't get along with the cold.

Hmm, I need some ancestors for the Himiko also, but my religion is more derived from the Twelve.. They are mainly blond also, but well rounded.


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #4 on: 22 July 2011, 01:37:33 »

Sorry to be so slow about this - the holidays came upon me with an awe-inspiring suddenness.

Ta'lia, could I just ask why it was decided that an earlier arrival of the Glandorians made more sense? The way it's explained on site seems fine to me - long-extant natives joined by old warriors from the Fall.

Ath


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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #5 on: 22 July 2011, 05:59:07 »

I fear I can't remember, it is too long ago that we sat there and made these migration maps. Maybe the idea was, that other, Cyhalloi people were descendants of these early Glandorians. Or maybe we never thought that it would be a workable idea, that another tribe could settle on this peninsula and form a whole kingdom, though there is already one established. Formed on a few ships who flew from Fa'av'ca'lar. (It would be so similar to the Avennorian history, that for me this would be the reason to develop it differently). We thought, that all migration would go over land and take place fairly slowly. The later you bring them there, the more you have to explain, why they have a different belief. What group they were and why they split. If you let them migrate very early, than it would be already after the burning of the tree. They would have time to develop.

Basically, I can't remember any compelling reasons to do it this way and not the other way round. Seemed obvious to us back then.

What would you propose? Maybe give us some more details to how you would like to have it.


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #6 on: 22 July 2011, 06:32:48 »

I simply intended keeping it the way it is on site. It seems to me that with your version you still have to expain where the Kanapans came from, which means more work than keeping it how it is; and if there's no reason to do it that way, then it's just change for change's sake.

Just really because I've read and thought about this from the other perspective, and can't really reconcile it very well.

As to establishing a kingdom, if the pre-Glandorians land at the end of the peninsula, we can have an inhospitable area to explain why it is empty. Plus, Glandor came with an entire navy, not just couple of ships, and they set out with purpose in mind, having been victorious and now searching for a place to live out their days in peace.

Ath


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #7 on: 05 September 2011, 04:03:00 »

Just a little bump, and a request to Arti/Ta'lia to clear up this issue of migration. As far as I can see, the change just means that the site is unreliable and has to be changed, but maybe I don't quite get it.

Ath


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #8 on: 06 September 2011, 04:10:06 »

Well, it's not just change for the sake of changing, Ath, but because we've tried to work on a general migration concept, and you find the result in this thread. It's not finished, but it's all connected, so that we know who settled where first, how large these tribes were and into which sub-tribes they spread, thus we know where the relations lie and the approximate timelines.

And that's what we have established, also we've mentioned there that this affects existing entries:

Quote

- Glandorians came before the Kanapans to the Kanapan peninsula (between 13.000 and 12.0000).
- The Kanapans came after the Fall of Fá'áv'cál'âr and part of the Glandorians moved to Cyhalloi (Kasumarii?), another part moved to found Ciosa (they became later the Avennorians), the rest remained and was integrated into the Kanapan society (Eferme subtribe).

I think we shouldn't turn this rework upside down now again, there definitely were reasons for it, and I would like to keep it that way. That's the point of trying to figure the connections all out: To define something, nail it down and then stick to it.


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #9 on: 06 September 2011, 05:07:57 »

Thanks Art. I've read that thread, and while I think I understand who moved where when, what I don't understand is why it was seen as more logical for the Glandorians to come first. Everything I've read of that area uses the old version, I think; what I've written of Glandorian history has that as well, and finding all the references will be a nightmare, and leave the site fairly confusing.

Ultimately, this isn't intended to be an argument, but just a polite query. If your mind is made up, up it is made. I just wondered what the reasoning behind the maps in that thread was.

Ath


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #10 on: 28 September 2011, 01:30:52 »

Forgive, Oh Illustrious Colleagues, the double post, but I need to get this back up the board to lay open what I intend to do regarding the whole deal.

I've come to the conclusion that whatever Arti's reasons for the change were, they were doubtless good ones, and to try to change that now, after so many years, is a waste of my effort.

Consequently, I am going to use the idea that humanity arrived at Glandor around 13000 b.S., and I think it would not be unreasonable for me to say that it is so far in the mists of time, and so fundamentally unresearchable, that modern scholars would have little idea about a date of arrival.

With that in mind, I update my working.

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Athviaro

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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #11 on: 28 September 2011, 02:21:57 »

Okeydokey then, on to you go with your masterwork, Ath! It's about time to get the entry writing rolling - I see you've already made lots of preparations already


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Masterwork Proposal: The Ancient Glandorian Men

« Reply #12 on: 23 December 2011, 23:26:53 »

Hopefully I'll find time to write this out at some point in the near future. I'm just working through the history at the moment; when I know what happened when I'll be able to write the entry.

I'm probably going to fix my history here some time soon.

Athviaro