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[Mina]

Yeah, it'd be nice to have a better way to write gestures.   
I didn't think 10 symbols was a lot though.  Think of it as a second (and very ugly) alphabet used for spelling out gestures. 

But mainly I'm wondering:

1. Are the gestures themselves alright?
2. Do the ways of using them make sense? 

[M´ruk Loshashzuck]

1. Yes but we DEFINITELY need A LOT more
2. Yep, but perhaps we could have another few to show where it comes relative to the words e.g. before, during, or after the word or sentence.

[Mina]

1. Well, 8 positions and 3 shapes give a total of 24 possible static ones if I have calculated it correctly, of which only 6 have been used so far.  Including movement, there are quite a lot of possible gestures.  I don't mind suggestions.   

2. I intended the gestures to be made while speaking they are written as being attached to.  I think they should be simple enough that they can be completed even in the time taken to say just a single-syllable word. 

If the gestures are alright, how about, as a temporary measure, we write the equivalent English word?  For example "h'rok[my]" instead of "h'rok[_>=@]/[_<:@]/[_>=@]" for "my horse"?  Still the same gestures, just translated into English before writing since we don't have a good way of directly writing gestures. 

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

That's not a bad idea...My idea involved replacing the accents with them, as a kind of two-birds-with-one-stone measure, but that only works when you stick to ' and ` and a couple more like that. But a kind of gestures-dictionary with all of the common gestures in shouldn't be hard and could be an idea...

On the number of gestures - we aren't trying to make a sign language here, so we don't need too many.

But did you get |? Or ¦? Maybe * as well? But I think Mina is right, 24 is quite a lot of positions, and they really come into their own for similar sounding words. There isn't really a Terran languages which has this mix of gestures and vocals (not a common onne, at least) so we don't have much from experience. However, we do always run into the problem of its looking hideuosly ugly!

I had an idea, on the Chatting in Santh. Languages, about using accents which gives us 4 basic gestures common to all vowels, plus a couple more for individual letters. As Mina said over there, there may not be enough vowels, but it's an idea. Or a single accent on each word could give a general stance or position? So for example:

Xäs could be Hot(nicely so ie warm)
Xás could be Hot(as in boiling/furnace ie uncomfortable)

Or since pronouns are likely to need gestures:

Xâs is "I-Hot"  - ie, I am hot
Xäs is "You-hot" - ie, You are hot
Xàs is "He-hot" - ie, He is hot
Xás is "She-hot" - ie, She is hot

These are just ideas and do not preclude Mina's system, into which she has put a lot of work, but is just for basic common gestures rather than more subtle ones.

Then when we add in the tilda and some others, especially from the Scandinavian, we get quite a range of preicse accents as well.

This page contains all of the keyboard shortcuts for word, and lists pretty much every accent and special character.

The Umlaut and the acute go on a "y" as well and "a" and "o" can have a tilda. Plus the cedille and the "o with a line through it"  and a couple more and we can pick and choose the most feasible of the lot to use - certainly not all of them! That would be a new alphabet, almost.

ANyway, I hope that my idea adds a little something to the language discussions, even if it never reaches site.

Athviaro the Developer of Languages (Somehow!?!?)

[Mina]

I was going to wait until I've come up with something better before replying, but that's taking too long.  So I'll just mention some of the things I've been thinking of. 

There are actually quite a lot more diacritics we can use, if we go with that.  Wikipedia has quite a big list.  We could either have each diacritic representing a "word" like your examples with the pronouns, or use them as a less ugly version of the punctuation-spelling I came up with.  But the former requires lots of diacritics, and the latter requires a lot of vowels to put the diacritics on. 

Another idea might be to do something similar to what I did, but using letters instead of punctuation.  So, for example, instead of the symbols "^, _, <, >, :, =", we could instead have "a, b, c, d, e, f".  That,s probably less ugly, but most people probably associate letters with sounds rather than gestures.  Also, we need a way to distinguish them from the spoken words, since those are being written with the same letters.  Maybe they could be italicized or something, but I'm not sure how well that would work yet. 

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

How about Greek/Arabic/Hebrew characters instead?

And I wasn't proposing that we should only use accents, but for some common ideas they may be useful, I think.

Not got long - it's 10:45 and I need sleep, so that's all. Sorry for the pathetically short post!

Athviaro

[M´ruk Loshashzuck]

That sounds like a very good idea, Athviaro. I agree 

[Mina]

How about Greek/Arabic/Hebrew characters instead?

Arabic might not work very well, since it's supposed to be written right-to-left I think.  But the other two might work. 

And I wasn't proposing that we should only use accents, but for some common ideas they may be useful, I think.

Oh, I think I get it now.  You mean something like how in English we sometimes write, for example, "&" for "and", right?  Yeah, that does sound like a good idea.   

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

You mean something like how in English we sometimes write, for example, "&" for "and", right?  Yeah, that does sound like a good idea.   

Sort of; like how in Spanish año and ano mean different things.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

In need of a couple of words:

From "Shielbearer(s) = Goruck" I gather that "Go" could be taken as the word for shield?

Is there a word for "diamond"? Or possibly "hard rock".. though diamond would be much more appropriate given that there's a play on the 'facets' of the precious stone..

Finally, "scales" as in the scales of a dragon, or any reptilian creature?

Cheers in advance ^^

[Valan Nonesuch]

Jonael, I didn't a bit of comprehensive work on breaking up orcish words Here

From a few other words on the site, I determined that "ruck" was the word for shield, right at the beginning, it's also in the dictionary.

As for scales. The word maar seems to mean "hide" from what I wrote in the spined worm. I can't find an equivalent on the site or in the dictionary. So perhaps y'marr for scales? Small-hide?

Diamond: phra'koh from stone and the word for fight (khq) fighting stone (for its hardness). However, since I gather you want a diamond shape (actually a sort of rhombus I believe), try this on for size

Diamond shield: mih'vert'ruck: Four-point-shield

Mih from the elvish meh: 4. The dark elves taught the orcs originally.
vert from vertex
And the original rational for ruck was based on "noruck-chmer" meaning skirmisher.
Noruck "no-shield"
Chmer "weak arm"

A skirmisher meaning one who wears no armor or carries no shield and is not strong, in keeping with this:
In ancient and medieval warfare, skirmishers typically carried bows, javelins, slings, and sometimes carried light shields. Acting as light infantry with their light arms and minimal armor, they could run ahead of the main battle line, release a volley of arrows, slingshots or javelins, and retreat behind their main battle line before the clash of the opposing main forces. The aims of skirmishing were to disrupt enemy formations by causing casualties before the main battle, and to tempt the opposing infantry into attacking prematurely, throwing their organization into disarray. Skirmishers could also be effectively used to surround opposing soldiers in the absence of friendly cavalry.

Once preliminary skirmishing was over, skirmishers participated in the main battle by shooting into the enemy formation, or joined in melée combat with daggers or short swords. Alternatively, they could act as ammunition bearers or stretcher-bearers

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Members Total Members: 1001 Latest: Glásáj Rásh Stats Total Posts: 140173 Total Topics: 10623 Online Today: 31 Online Ever: 125 (21 June 2007, 19:36:12) Users Online Users: 3 Guests: 30 Total: 33 Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels Artimidor Federkiel Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

Last 10 Shouts: Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels 07 February 2012, 20:43:16 Thanks! Artimidor Federkiel 07 February 2012, 18:50:03 It's a Caltharian female name - see here. Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels 07 February 2012, 17:47:28 Art - Queen Shawaldah, wife of Dagolth, from which tribe has she been, can't see this from the name. Artimidor Federkiel 07 February 2012, 13:07:36 Well, no problem with that - every help here is appreciated! Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels 07 February 2012, 13:06:07 Yes, it seemed a bit easier than to restart/finish my big projects Artimidor Federkiel 07 February 2012, 12:58:42 We've got until 200 a.S. so far, so yup, from then on we'd need more. Are you planning to work on the next hundred years or so? Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels 07 February 2012, 12:41:03 Art - the Golden Age of Kings, after Dagold would be the next to write down, or did I miss something? Deklitch Hardin 03 February 2012, 02:10:40 Internet back Deklitch Hardin 02 February 2012, 11:59:58 rain here over the past two/three weeks have played havoc with our internet connection at home. sneaking in a couple of minutes at work. Not sure when it'll be back on at home. Hopefully within 24 hours. Artimidor Federkiel 31 January 2012, 22:18:02 Oh, and I've now also spotted the piece - among so many other great one's you've gathered there! Bonus suggestion: Never knew that Phylicia Rashad from the Cosby Show is such a great gospel singer - see here, start at ca. 4:30 - really great voice!

[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels

[Artimidor Federkiel]

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[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels

[Artimidor Federkiel]

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[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

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[Artimidor Federkiel]

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[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

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[Deklitch Hardin]

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