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Author Topic: Cyhalloian Slinker amendments  (Read 2448 times)
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quegon
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« on: 17 May 2004, 05:21:00 »

Hi all, I had a spare hour so I decided to get on and check the site, saw the updates etc. I saw a story on the front page that made me a little worried though, it describes the Cyhalloian Slinker, and also had a picture of it in the story. Now normaly I wouldn't say something but I have a few things to say about this that I know are right or have had Rad give me confirmation of.

First of all the Cyhalloian Slinker is a "Ferret" no a canine so this leaves 2 things. the first is that the entry itself is wrong the 2nd is that this means the picture is also wrong.

I've talked to Rad a few times about this but it seems he's never brought it up, I'm starting to get concerned as his once wonderful entry is slowly being twisted into something its not, although I might be speaking out of place I know that Rad most likely wouldn't like this...

But you have to admit its a great pic right?

Quegon



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Edited by: quegon  at: 5/16/04 13:22
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« Reply #1 on: 17 May 2004, 05:26:00 »

Have you ever met a Cyhalloian Slinker personally so that you can say "that the entry itself is wrong" and "that this means the picture is also wrong"? Maybe you're talking about another animal, which I hereby solemnly assume.


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Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 5/16/04 13:26
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quegon
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« Reply #2 on: 17 May 2004, 05:27:00 »

well not actualy, but I've talked to Rad about his entry a few times and know that its still in the wrong catergory.

Quegon



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« Reply #3 on: 17 May 2004, 05:35:00 »

Category change can be done, concerning the rest I don't see a problem why we shouldn't keep it as it is.


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quegon
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« Reply #4 on: 17 May 2004, 05:40:00 »

Personaly I don't have anything wrong with the Pic itself etc, its just that the entry has been changed from the original, also that the creature in the pic doesn't look very ferretish :(

Oh well can't win them all, but please do take a look at the original in the Beastarity forums and compare it to the one on the site before doing anything.

Quegon



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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #5 on: 17 May 2004, 08:51:00 »

Maybe ferrets on Caelereth look more like canines on earth? ;)  


I talked with Rad as well on IRC about the issue - I didn't think that he was very concerned about  the issue canine/ferret. The description as a ferret and canine in the same entry will be surely fixed sometimes.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 5/16/04 17:02
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quegon
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« Reply #6 on: 17 May 2004, 09:17:00 »

well all entrys concerning Ferrets are link (or at least mine are) seeing as though all Ferrets are based off the common ferret. Once I finish my overview you'll be able to see why but that'll be quite awhile before I finish that.

Quegon

P.S. I couldn't sleep so I got up to reply to this and I got school tomorrow or should I say today :(  



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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2004, 09:43:00 »

quegon, sorry to say that, but I think you are on the wrong track here.

First - there is nowhere in the slinker entry (the original on the dev board) mentioned, that it is related to the ferrets you did. Maybe it is wrongly named from the there living tribes????

Second - there is not much of a difference between what Rad wrote and what Art corrected - which is his right as a webmaster. I admit, I wouldn‘t call this beast small, but otherwise the only „mistake“ I see is his naming it „small wild canine animals“

Third - to the pic: It doesn‘t look exactly like a ferret on earth. Have you seen one here which is over a meter long?
As I see, the artist tried to picture the animal after the description of Rad, and maybe she didn‘t look up how a ferret on earth looks like (no need to do that in a fantasy surrounding, better to do something new), and so she painted it as it was in her imagination. Rad didn‘t write anything how long the legs are or short the nose- just that it is slender and has a long body. That can be true for the pic itself.

So what we have is following: Art may have used the wrong species, naming the ferret canine, but it is VERY unfriendly of you to tell the artist, that she has done her picture wrong - if she just followed the description given. And it is a nice pic which fits exactly to the description, though not to a photo of ferrets on earth.

If Rad is really unhappy with the pic (which I doubt) I will be glad to do an entry to this nice animal for my new acquired northern lands.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2004, 13:25:00 »

Quote:
The Cyhalloian Slinkers (also known simply as "Slinkers" by the Kasumarii) are small wild canine animals, on average 1 ped long but some have been seen around 1.25 peds. They have long sleek white bodies with large paws and are sometimes kept as hunting companions by both the elves and men of the region. Slinkers travel in packs ranging from 5 to 7 ferrets and each pack can have a territory of up to 5 perries.


overview of the entry.

p223.ezboard.com/fsanthar...21&stop=38

The title of the thread contains "ferret", a discussion about a ferret this size is throughout the whole thread.

Couldn't find the thread with the picture and I don't remember if it was done explicitly done for the beast or not.

talia, I cannot quite follow your logic but the picture looks like a polar fox which is no problem as it is a cool picture but it is simply no ferret. And misnaming it because it is fantasy is plainly confusing.

However the simplest thing to do would be to ask Rad if the picture suits the entry or not if hasn't done so somewhere anyway. When it is supposed to be a ferret than it should look like a ferret in a way (even if it's missnamed and actually no ferret it would've been misnamed because it looks like one), if it is supposed to be similar to a fox or jackal the picture is great I'd say.

Well, in short, ask Rad to clear this up, he should know hoe he'd picture it and if the picture doesn't fit, well than let's make it a polar fox or some relative. No harm done.:)  


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« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2004, 13:47:00 »

Quote from the posted entry in the link Koldar provided:

Radaroc: "Since these things are sort of sneaky wolves, I did some research on them. In Canada/Alaska wolves can get up to 6 feet long and have a pack of 30 members.

(...)

Mustela is the genus of ferrets, weasels, skunks, badgers, wolverines, otters, stoats, minks, polecats, and the Black-Footed ferret. Now the whole scientific thing is not for Santharia I know, but if you want to or think it really needs to be changed, fine. I'm non-commital on this. I think that it should be related to the ferret but doesn't need to have ferret in the name.

(...)

I just realized (amazingly enough) that the name thing is not worth arguing about. They're related to the ferrets but aren't a subspecies, ok "


Quote from Web Design Forum:

Radaroc: "I wanna say thanks to Eshoh for making the pic, AH! Too cool too cool! Very true to the canine/ferret -ness of my beastie. Plus the fangs and red eyes make it look....demonic. Ya, thanks."

So it's a canine with distant ferret influence - what's the problem? I can remove the only ferret reference which exists in the overview if that would make anyone happier.


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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #10 on: 17 May 2004, 15:04:00 »

As I understood, Eshoh painted it after the description of the entry about this beast, so what is wrong, the pic or the word ferret?

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2004, 15:14:00 »

Ok since there is a larger controversy over this I will do my best to clear up the subject.

My original concept of the Slinker was as a sort of large ferret, but a pack hunter.  I drew on several earth animals to complete the creature, raptors in that the female is larger and instigator of mating, and timber wolves in the pack structure, hunting and the like.  However it was supposed to remain ferret-like in appearnce.  I was told that such diversions were to great and that it could no longer be called a ferret.

After a number of revisions I was again encouraged to change it from a ferret to,...something else.

So deciding that I didn't really want to fight an argument on why I didn't want them to be anything but ferrets, I just added canine to the overview and off the thing flew to the integration list.


So, No, the pic that Eshoh did is not in my true ideal of what the Slinker should look like, do not I wish to say that I'm not flattered that someone took time to do such a great looking pic, no.  In idea situations I would say; The pic is incorrect and should either be moved to a different entry or taken off the site, and the entry should have all references to canine and dog taken off it and moved to the "Martens/Weasels" section of the Bestiary."  

However that is an ideal situation, one that puts people other than me at inconvenience, which I don't want to do.  If this is something that would not take a tremendous amount of time/effort, then yes I do want those things stated above to take place.

My previous statements with Talia and in the site update thread were meant to spare argument, which is misleading of my true feelings on the subject, so I'm laying my cards out on the table and you can make of them what you may.



"Ok!  Who's talking...what?  Oh, hello down there."


Edited by: Radaroc at: 5/16/04 23:33
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #12 on: 18 May 2004, 00:30:00 »

That problem would have not come into this world, if we would not try to stick too much to earthen references.

I didn't follow the argumentation about this beast when it was created, but what I see now, is that Rad wanted to make an unique animal.

Quote:
My original concept of the Slinker was as a sort of large ferret, but a pack hunter. I drew on several earth animals to complete the creature, raptors in that the female is larger and instigator of mating, and timber wolves in the pack structure, hunting and the like. However it was supposed to remain ferret-like in appearnce. I was told that such diversions were to great and that it could no longer be called a ferret.



So why not just say, that it is a Slinker, not a ferret and not a canine, with behaviour such and such and a ferretlike appearance? Or why mention ferret at all and just desribe it correctly, though "ferretlike" helps of course Then the discussion, if it is still a ferret or not are obsolet.

"The Cyhalloian Slinkers (also known simply as "Slinkers" by the Kasumarii) are predatory pack hunters of about one ped lenght. Long sleek white bodies with large paws give them a ferretlike appearance though. Slinkers travel in packs ranging from 5 to 7 individuels and each pack can have a territory of up to 5 perries. Sometimes they are kept as hunting companions by both the elves and men of the region."

If the reference to "canine" or "ferret " is avoided in the text, it should be fine.

And I'm glad to write an entry to the pic , if some slight adjustements could be made (blue eyes instead of red f.e.)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #13 on: 18 May 2004, 07:31:00 »

As I understand it the initial concept was a ferret the size of a jackal/wolf with a social pack behaviour. So the earthern references were intended in appearance so anyone would imagine a ferret of unusual proportions when reading the entry.

The fundamental changes made due to the discussion seem to have skewed the appearance part as through the lack of mentioning the connection to "ferrets" the description got vague. The discussion seems to be based on the Santharian Common Ferret entry, not on the Earthern reference, Talia. Ridding the entry of such references doesn't solve the problem as the problem obviously is that the appearance section conveys a wrong picture of the creature because none knows that it was meant to look similar to a ferret.

That can be either solved by explicitly adding the reference that it is related to ferrets(Earthern or Santharian) in built and appearane or by elaborating the appearance  section further, describing how that giant-ferret looks like.


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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #14 on: 18 May 2004, 08:21:00 »

Well, then let's say

"... Long sleek white bodies with large paws give them an appearance like the Santharian ferret though, which might be indeed (is)  a (distant) relative...."

Or should we include the ratlike (but slimmer and longer with furred tail) - appearance as well? Then it gets really confusing, LOL

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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