Santharian Development

(click on image to enlarge)

(http://stuff.santharia.com/coren/nybelmar_politics_small.jpg) (http://stuff.santharia.com/coren/nybelmar_politics.jpg)



Ok, I have a spare hour tonight and a couple more tomorrow, after that I need to get back to studying hard on Tuesday (sighs). I wrote most of this (and the map) in August - in the next couple of days, I will try to get the rest 'out' of my head (as Mira noted, things have a habit of becoming entrenched there...). These are meant to be very rough drafts: horrible language (typos included), concepts drawns very coarsely - I wish to put together a skeleton for us to work on /discuss together. These are meant to be "anchors" - marking what needs to be where (additions can be made, but they have to be woven around these). I need a free exchange of ideas to make these more original. Let's brainstorm, then we can discard some and refine the rest.

We start with Kaerath:

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Reminders:
- Northern Islands & R'unor

The Inhabitants

• The Morchini - Development crew-> Miraran, Drasil, (Coren)
• The Amorai - Development crew-> Coren

• The Efferdita ("Krean gypsies") - Development crew-> Coren

• The Ter'ei'Vikh - Development crew -> Miraran
• The Nybelmer - Development crew -> Miraran, (Coren)
• Essalui Thareliath - Development crew -> Coren

I am modelling these humans after the Followers of Earth from that brilliant PC game, Lords of Magic (Special Edition). They will basically consist of 2 tribes: Dwarf-like and garden-gnome-like in appearance (both of which will need proper names).

The Dwarf-like ones will be of course short, stout, muscled – just somewhat taller and more humanlike than authentic dwarves, without the pot-bellies. Very tough and militaristic types, walking around in full plate armour the whole day with a gritty-grouchy expression. Their sturdy, green armour reminiscent of Green Krath Gold, they carry gigantic, two-handed axes.

The garden-gnomes are even shorter, roughly the height of the average first grader. Their unrelenting seriousness/gravity and perpetual grumpiness lends them a rather comical appearance. Despite their masks of bad-temperedness, they are very kind-hearted to animals and things of the earth – but that is about the extent of their affability. They are the mages of this quaint little world, adept at manipulating almost all forms of earth (mostly defensive stuff like raising rocks block a passage or a shield of hardened mud to deflect arrows). They live in mushroom-villages and libraries grown from/carved into enormous mushrooms. They make such a fuss about the study of their esoteric magic, which has become so cryptic and abstruse that few of them actually understand what they are doing. Most of their time is spent trying to decipher what older masters meant in the many tomes assembled in their libraries.  Compared to the average human they can safely be called “green-fingers”, keeping an eye on the farming communities supplying the food of the Kaerath Plain. However, their skills are no comparison to even the most middling Krean growth-apprentices. They are quite decent at making ointments, salves and potions but their alchemy – like most of their magic - is a confused muddle of mystic-hearsay formulas passed on from master to apprentice unlike the structured, rational ‘science/art’ of the Ancient Krean. They originally dwelt in the woods southwest of the Kaerath Plain, northwest of Germon Doilith, before the descendants of the Ancient Lillivear adroitly kicked them out. A continued resentment against these Lillivear remains.

Some rather huge trees grow in certain parts of this kingdom, mostly resembling banyon trees. Aside from building opportunities around and between the trunks (in imitation of the Lillivear?), the accommodation should also extend underground – perhaps “pouches” or houses between the trees’ massive roots?

The climate of this region is colder than the rest of the western continent; all four seasons are noticeably manifest - although the winters are nowhere as chilling as those in mid-Santharia. They certainly do not have the tropical or even the sub-tropical weather of the southern peninsula (or the Drifting Woods to the northeast). The plan is for the overall atmosphere of this realm to have a very earthy feel, with lots of strange elements – socially and geographically.

Traditionally these folks are ruled by a council of masters from the most accomplished/wizened mages of the garden-gnomes. However in times of war, like the current era, power & command is marshalled under a General of the dwarf-ones, proposed by the Council. Although this commander acts more like a king – in absolute command of the armies and anything of consequence to the military effort (which is broadly interpreted to encompass everything going on in the state) and the Council as an advisory body, he suffers no illusion as to his actual standing: he is there simply because the Council cannot be bothered with the nitty-gritty of war, conquest and all those things the mundane folk are enthralled by. The Dwarf-King (not an actual dwarf!) does not do anything without deference to the Gnomish-Masters, and while the Council leaves anything to do with military issues to his hands, he cannot do anything against the Council’s approval. The Mage Council posits what should be done and the Commander-in-Chief makes sure that gets done.

I need some sort of “trouble” to keep them from getting too comfortable. Maybe some bothersome trolls and/or Mohsys in the mountains (Germon Doilith), coming to raid their cities? The entire Germon Doilith range needs some ‘attraction’ at any rate, to prevent all the bordering realms from growing too large and to provide constant ‘entertainment’ for the north. I would rather avoid overusing trolls though and have something unique and indigenous instead, to maintain Nybelmar’s “exotic” impression.

The political relations of the Kaerath Peninsula should create frequent conflict: the Morchini always striving to expand their territory (into the Drifting Woods, Faen and the Islands of Thareliath) and exterminate the Lillivear; the reclusive inhabitants of the Drifting Woods wishing to keep everyone out; territory frequently exchanging hands between the Lillivear and the mushroom people every time the Lillivear invade and then the mushroom-people march to reclaim land; rumours of a threatening presence rising in the Essalui Thareliath…

The political situation combined with the threat from the Germon Ranges means there are regular patrols throughout the mushroom-lands to ensure the safety of their realm (and discover which parts are no longer theirs). These companies often engage in small skirmishes, providing an excellent setting for stories.

The mushroom-people believe in the existence of “The Hand”, a semi-mythical / demi-deityish creature resembling a monstrous hand burrowing and groping around underground – and of course pulling blasphemers, trouble-makers, too-curious-persons etc into the depths of the earth.

Interestingly, the Morchini are one of the many western-Nybelmarian nations whose myths/legends revolve around the return/coming of a new Earth King [nn], to save the continent at its darkest hour (i.e. the classic stuff – however this does give us some more options vis-à-vis the Fourth/Fifth Shadow War). This is especially intriguing because all accounts of their last “Earth King” who liberated them from the clutches of a Dark Lord or whatever bears a striking match with the legendary Sorcerer-Emperor-philosopher-and-all-too-many-things-to-list Dearan Asaen. This suggests that the now-mythical Krath Emperor did not ‘disappear’ as everyone thought:  the folklore of many of the far western and northern realms very few people on Nybelmar know about shows that the Sorcerer continued to travel and influence nations long after he was declared ‘departed’.


Notes:
(1) "No undercutting is more deadly, artistically, than humor. Nothing is better calculated to make a great man appear ludicrous than a touch of humour at the wrong time." (quote from Ayn Rand, the Art of Fiction) The Lillivear-descendants, fully aware of this, began the fashion of placing small, comical wood statues of these mages in their gardens. Much to the fury of these little fol - just as the Lillivear calculated. Eventually, through their trade relations, the habit was taken up in Santharia and for a short time became all the rage as the new satirical movement, sculpting the unpopular faces of the day as these effigies. As there are no gnomes on Nybelmar the name could not have originated on the continent - but the resemblance must have occcured to some wit in Santharia and the name stuck: both for the ridiculous statuettes and the original 'models' (becoming the Sarvonian name for this race/tribe). Indeed many Santharians still a vague notion of little garden-gnomes running around in some far-away continent - and the story of garden-gnome statues coming into life at night to do mischief must have sprang from that.


Ideas from Mira and Drasil;

-The Kaerathi plains's foundations are almost completely made of limestone. their rolling hills are riddles with natural caves, sinkholes, strange, monolithical rock formations, and crevices. Their are occupied by mostly small animals and plants, with the occasional giant species for contrast. (Coren's giant banyan tree's are an example of this.)

-The Morchini live in a tight caste system, kept securely into place by their ruling caste, the Magepriests (MP's) of the Hand, who commandeer their settlements from their Mushroom Towers. Supported by the Warrior caste acting as handservants, overseers, and other intermediaries, the MP's live comfortably from the tributes they demand from the largest caste, the docile Commoners. Effectively, this makes the Morchini a corrupt theocracy, where the priesthood wringes their wealth from their followers by means of divine fear.

-The entries mentioning the religion of the Morchini will not specify wheather this is a real god, or just a figurehead for the MP's to keep the commoners in check. The MP's use various forms of trickery and/or actual magery to retain their leading position, and make sure no revolutionairy thoughts are present.

-An important tool for this are their giant ants. Marginally telepathic in nature, these span-long ants form a hive mind led by their queen. This queen, responsible for the reproduction of the colony, lives in the center of the network of tunnels the workers have dug, which is always a chamber hollowed out in the underground parts of the Mushroom tower. Their servitude to the MP's is ensured by the fact the queen requires the magic they provide to remain fertile, and in return, the queen uses her workers to spy on the lower castes of the Morchini, relaying all important information to the Magepriest in charge of the tower she occupies.


Notes
- Alice-in-Wonderland/surreal aspect to the Plains of Kaerath: The gist of the idea is that what we would normally expect to be small should be gigantic and visa versa. That is, there should be a surreal, out-of-proportion feel to the place. So the Lillivear riding colossal squirrels as mounts and miniature Thunderfeet (about the size of a young Labrador?) used by the Morchini to clean windows, wash the streets and water the grass. Trees the size of shrubs sprinkled amidst the colossal, free-standing banyon trees - shrub-pines and miniature-willows

- Fauna & Flora
Fauna

• miniature Thunderfeet
• mini tigers & perpetual kittens (Mira has these covered as the Tum-um cats, living in the Thornclouds
• mastiff-sized porcupines (can "spit" its needles?)
• giraffes?
• mastiff-sized bears
• peach-sized bees

Flora

• gargantuan Umbrella Thorns (Thornclouds) & Banyan Trees
• shrub-pines & miniature willows
• miniature apple-trees ("snack apples")
• tomato sized pumpkins & pumpkin sized tomatoes
• giant sunflowers
• large mushrooms to sit on (a la Alice in Wonderland)
• echinacea
• ginger / ginseng?

(Judith's naming suggestions)
Echinacea – Pricklewort, Royalspine, Aguebane

"The first two names are derived from the spiky centre of the flower, which children think resembles a miniature prickleboar.  Its more common title of 'Aguebane' comes from its remarkable ability to mediate the symptoms of a typical ague - the running nose, the stuffed head, the sore throat... all respond well to an infusion of Aguebane with malisehoney...."


Umbrella Thorn – Bumbertree, Fishhook,  Thorncloud

"Colloquially nicknamed the 'Bumbertree' or the 'Fishhook (from its resemblance to a Brownie mushroom used as a rainshelter, or its double-spiked thorns), this dramatic tree is better known as the Thorncloud.  From a distance one sees a series of misty greyish flat-bottomed shapes, looking exactly like rain clouds hovering on the horizon.  But as one approaches, one sees the haze resolve into narrow leaves with the viciously-pronged thorns protruding beyond them, clustered in their cloudlike masses on elongated limbs.  The best one can say about this tree is that it provides a great deal of shade, its dripcircle being almost XXX peds in diameter..."

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ORIGINS OF THE MORCHINI: The Cult of the Hand and the Morchini Expulsion
(info by Deci)

As a result of the Faen tendency for multiple births, the population has exploded, and as such physical differences become more and more apparent throughout the Municipen due to the breeding of similar characteristics. None, however, are more obviously different than the groups to the Northern Extent of the Municipen, the XXX, a reclusive and aggressive group of miners and YYY, a bitterly antisocial but undeniably efficient group of farmers. However, for most part of their history, they remained embraced as Faen in their own right, the burly youth of XXX forming the bulk of the Faen army and the produce of YYY contributing significantly feeding the mouths of the nation.

After the introduction of the infamous ‘Poetpriest Debt’ under Kezarian sanction, many of the simple workers in the North lost faith in the typical Faen religion, the priests forcing significant hardship upon them. By subtle coincidence, Ratator Khrum, a relatively unknown Poetpriest, had been expelled from the order for heretical practices- claiming he had seen the true guise of the divine in his dreams. After his defection from the order he divulged his ideas to another group on the fringes of society, the long scorned Earth Magi who took refuge in the Northern Valleys from prying eyes. It was in the secluded depths of the valleys that the pivotal ‘Cult of the Hand’ was born, claiming the omniscient deity ‘The Hand’ as a punisher of all those who did not embrace him.

Though the process was gradual, the religiously dissatisfied XXX and YYY were eventually turned to the idea of The Hand, the services of the Earth Magi in the mining operations and tempering of the fields definitely adding prestige to the movement.

The growth of such a influential group however was incredibly disconcerting to the mainstream priesthood of the Municipen. Elevated One Hiatiani of the Priesthood claimed the entire cult to be dangerously malignant to the entire nation, whilst the cult themselves continued to breach the downfall of the Faen if faith in The Hand was not embraced. Many in the South found the cultists in the North to be extremely aggrevating, scornfully dubbing them ‘Morshani’ (Vieja Faenica for ‘Infections’) after an outbreak of Fungal Fever, which caused the skin to become pallid and pasty. Tensions festered, but did not come to a head until the Great Famine in zzzz b.S.

The Great Famine, the year where exploding birth rates and poor weather conditions finally met boiling point, saw a schism in Faen society. While the Cult insisted this was The Hand’s doing, a punishment for a lack of service to the deity, the majority of the Municipen quickly blamed the Black Magic of the Earth Magi (and by proxy, the Cult of The Hand) and saw the scorning of the fields of YYY as divine punishment for their heresy, a punishment which led the nation to starve. Under strong public pressure, and influence from Elevated One Hiatiani, Kezar Giaronni signed a declaration that ordered the exile of the collective Morshani peoples to the wilderness of the Kaerethi plains- that lands that would eventually become the Kazai.

Reforming the name ‘Morshani’ into ‘Morchini’, a word meaning ‘Noble’ in the pidgin dialect that was formed from conscious alteration to Vieja Faenica and existing differences in regional vocabulary, established a new society that eventually formed one of the most dogmatic and warmongering nations on the continent of Nybelmar.  


LINKS:
- Moredein Kaerath (places entry) (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,13424.0.html): does not reflect concept in places; will need to change

Name: Amorai (plural); Amorais (singular) - best way to keep the suffixes in mind: Krean, as usual, have to do everything the complicated way, so the opposite of what you would expect in English: s # plural

Pronounced: Amorai = A-moh-RAYH (a as in cart, o as in or) or A-moh-RAY(a as in ray); Amorais = A-moh-rice or A-moh-race. 3 syllables; stress falls on last syllable



Origins: a group of Lillivear among the Krean exiles escaping the Breaking who refused to join the Vikhari.

Political relations: They regard the Tereivikh with a degree of disdain and suspicion. However, they would rather ally with DW against the Morchin than be ruled by them. So the only thing that actually brings the tereivikh and the lillivear are Morchini military campaigns.

An intense alliance with the Efferdita.

A strong affiliation with Nybelmer – a relationship of mutual respect, especially with the Whale-Tails/Deep Mer.

Trade with Faen, Efferdita, Mist and “Far Eastern” (nn). To a lesser extent also with Sarthera and “Aesteran Venice”

Antagonism between them & Essalui Thareliath.

??? Deep-seated suspicion towards the Inami. They avoid one another whenever possible. ??? or?


[...]

[...]

EDIT-> The Ter'ei'Vikh tribe entry (http://www.santharia.com/tribes/humans/ter_ei_vikh.htm) will tell you everything you ever wanted to know, and more.


NOTICE! The Drifting Woods region is open for development to apprentices and newcomers! Please consult Miraran for further details.

EDIT-> The Nybelmer entry draft (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,11565.msg135122.html#msg135122)


See Judith’s idea about different coloured fins for regions. Gold tailed, exotic variety for the Inner Sea? Check with Mira – merfolk of the Drifting Woods? Swim to the Inner Sea or completely isolated?

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(Coren)

[...]

This may just be ebcause I know nothing of Nyblemar, but I was wondering why only half the map is marked politically and as to what the white and blue arrows mean.

Smith in Exile is in command of the other half, so this map only pertains to Coren's plans. I have no clue whatsoever about the arrows..

They look like trade routes or possibly ... tidal currents.

the white arrows signify that a race or tribe is spreading into that direction, or divides a name onto several areas. the blue arrows seem to suggest a not yet named connection between the Northern Isles and the Inner Sea

"Mushroom People" makes me think of sentient fungi...

ARROWS
Oh my! The speculation generated by two innocent arrows! It really is quite simpler: Instead of writing 'Lillivear' twice in Kaerath and crowd the map, I wrote it once and pointed towards their two forests.

The map is colour-coded :P So when in doubt, look for that: Both of those woods are in olive green, which means they are both part of the same kingdom.


White arrows in the south: Again marks their area of prevelance. Since they live underwater, it is hard to pinpoint the exact boundaries of their territory (and Nybelmarians should have no means of checking that anyway). So while they are believed to be concentrated around the viaquis peninsula, the open ended arrows signify speculations about where else they 'spread' to. (probably extrapolated from occasional spottings by ships in those regions). I basically hint that while they are concentrated and appear (& trade/intimidate) frequently around the Viaquis area, they do make occasional appearances all around the southern face of the peninsula. (From Sharosar to Krathaszar)

Navy arrows: If you look carefully, you will notice the word 'Nybelmer' written in the same shade above the arc. The same idea again: Merfolk movements. The arrows don't mark the exact track they follow - probably most come much closer to the shore (it would be a shame if none were encountered in the coastal areas around Kaerath...)

Probably four main 'camps' (the 'settled' ones): 1) Around the Kaerath peninsula  2) Merfolk of Essalui Thareliath (these should be the scary ones - black fins and long fingernails etc)  3) The ones that swim around the bay to the southeast (Faen - Aesteran city states - Ivyeth)  4) Western ones - mainly around the 'far-eastern' shores.

Building upon Mira's idea, the blue arrows could be the migration 'veins' for the Deep Sea Mers, the 'traveling' ones. With royal blue fins, they could perhaps represent a sort of "High Merfolk" (like the 'High Elves' you find in rpg) - sort of the Wardens of Mertribes. Leaders of the merrace in 'foreign relations' - they travel to each of their realms to make sure everything is alright. Rarely come into contact with 'Drylanders' - seeing them disdainfully below their aristocratic attention etc?

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Why is only half the map coloured? Well, it does say 'West Nybelmar Realms' at the very top of this thread... ;)

Ter'ei'Vikh

These people are the descendants of an now extinct tribe, the Vikhari, and a group of Krean refugees. (For details, see the Drifting Woods entry).

They are of moderate heigth, reaching not more than 160-165cm at most (i will convert to peds later), and can be consideren lean to the extreme. With next to no body fat, the teréi'vikh have a slightly scary-looking physique, with their spindly limbs, where under the darkly tanned skin a sinewwy strength is clearly visible.
They have highly efficiant joints, and are capable of bending knees, elbows, shoulders and waist into angles few others can, wich leads to a flowing, yet bug-like way of moving, especially for those individuals that rarely leave the rope-bridge systems that cover much of the deep woods. Their eyes are large, and range from greenish to pale grey and even paler blue with green-grey being the most dominant color.   Hairs is white, fading to silver at old age, while the Mark of Vikthi appears in dark colors as maturity is reached.

Ter'ei'Vikh are a suspicious lot, possibly even xenophobic, although they seem to get a long fine with their neighbours, the Nybelmer. They do however havea deep distrust against other Humans, and prefer to keep them out of their woods altogether. They are fiercely religious, and seem to consider their 'spirits' to be just as real as they are, especially their Moon Spirit, Vikthi, who is their patron deity. They see it as their divine duty to protect and care for the Drifting Woods, and as such rarely leave its confines. Their self-imposed isolation has made them oblivious to the political climate of the world however, and a suggestion to any kind of military action other than defending their own would be met with ridicule.

 Coren: Added to the main post above!

Nybelmer;

Not to be confused with the Merfolk of Sarvonia, the Nybelmer are an intelligent race, that is able to speak the human tongues and lives in more or less organised communities among the coasts of Nybelmar. Capable of casting more or less advanced magic, depending on which tribe one is looking at, they are a presence that cannot be ignored around the coasts of Nybelmar. Scolars identify at least three seperate subraces amongst the Mer of Nybelmar in the Kaerathi region, each of wich is given an introduction below;

Deep Mer, Soéliveche;
These are the giants among the Nybelmer. Reaching an average length of three peds head to tail, they are impressive to behold, but quite rare to find. A group of these mer is rumored make home under the Drifting Woods, but seem to like to travel great distances through the depths of the ocean. Would one encounter a Deep Mer, igoring the creature and keeping a safe distance is usually advisable, as they are often ill-tempered in their dealings with the 'Surface Dwellers'. They are organised in family groups, each led by a Shaman that governs over his pod without question.
Deep Mer have fairly dark colors. Their scales are often a deep blue or green, and this color seems to 'bleed' into their fins, that have a colored center but transparend edges. Their haircolor is anything from light brown to dark green, and their skin tone is usually grey-ish, with a striped pattern on the shoulders, arms, and back, usually in a slightly lighter color than that of the scales. These are the strongest Mer, with an impressive physique.
As most Nybelmer, thay are able to work magics to some degree, but their abilities are strictly defined among the sexes. The 'male' merfolk, whom are usually the largest,  are comparable to rudimentary mages of the School of Water, while the 'females' seem to be able to communicate with many creatures of the sea, and command them if needed. Finally, the 'third gender', who are the only ones that can be a family shaman, are the Deep Mer's link with their ancestorial spirits. Their magic is that of the mind, and many a sailor will readilly swear there are the most amazing women to be found underwater in a certain area, that allure them, and call for you, but disapear as soon as you jump into the water.


Dark Mer, Charchaveche;
These are creatures of mystery. Believed to make home around the Essalui Thareliath, they are mostly shrouded in shadows. With a pale-white skin and scales that contrast magnificently with their dark fins and hair, the Dark Mer are rumored to be of evil intent, and feared by sailors,  even though no cases are known of a Dark Mer attack. They are said to be small, reaching no more than one and a half to two peds, and endowed with a beautifull voice that calls out in the night for help. Would one be foolish enough to search for the crier however, his ship is doomed, and will soon be destroyed by the dark workings of these mer, and the sailors ravaged and eaten raw.
However, recent studies have raised the idea that most of their fearfull nature is unjust. The Dark mer, or Charchaveche as they call themselves are reclusive beings, that avoid all contact with the other races, or even they Deep Mer brothers. Brooding and disdainfull of all other beings thay are verry intelligent, and more often than not capable of speaking various human languages, even though they have never met the humans in question. It is said they are great scolars in their own right, and users of magic that rivals that of the Humans in most aspects. The Deep mer speak only of them with the deepest respect, if they can be persuaded to speak of them at all. Among the verry few facts the Compendium has been able to verify is the Dark Mer's habit of eating no animals of any kind, supposedly because of a deeply-rooted belief that all life has it's value. (Although this researcher believes the Deep Mer to consider the value of other beings significantly lower than that of their own kind.) This makes it unlikely that the old stories of terror are true, gives the fact that this belief is probably the only reason a Dark Mer would seek contact with a Human; to save them from drowning. Even then, the Humans rarely remember anything, and contribute their life to the actions of the Deep Mer instead.


Glittermer, Bevoluiveche;
Most common, and well known of all Nybelmarian Merfolk is the cheerfull, and sometimes frivolous Light Mer. Dwelling in the surface areas of most of the coast of the Kaerathi peninsula, they are well-known, albeit infrequent, visitors of port towns and fishing ships. Living in family groups without a fixed location, the Light mer enjoys the sun as much as the water, and will often beach itself, or climb atop cliffs in order to sunbathe. They are of medium size, usually around two peds and a few handspan, and covered in a light skin, and cream, golden, or silver scales, with various markings and patterns in a certain, but individually variable color. It is even said that not two Light Mer have the same secondary color, something that can neither be proven nor disproved. Light Mer are very fond of pretty items, and will often try to trade beautifull seashells and polished rocks for land-made jewelry and trinkets. Although they are intelligent enough to realise what they are trading, they can just as easilly offer a raw gemstone in trade for a bit of colored glass as they would offer a common seashell with a bright shine. This surprises many people, but in fact the Light mer simply don't care, as they have no need for the items they are trading away.
The magic of the Light Mer is seldomly seen, and many people believe they are incapable of such feats at all. Yet there are persistant tales of captured Light Mer that  summon ferocious waves and winds against their captors, and similar stories of Light Mer calming a storm to aid one that has done one of them a good deed. Again, no such thing can be confirmed, yet fishemen seem to have an unwavering belief in this, and very few sailors will willingly do something to hurt a Light Mer.

Neat :)

Two things though: "Benderra" sounds better than "Nybelriod" imo :D So let's keep Benderra... The Chyrakisth would sniff around many areas, so you would find their camps oftentimes in unexpected places :) (but, yes, their main staging area would be the Zharkanions - kinda hard to remove them from there :) )

I like that new name: Mist Islands (any connection with the franchise? :P ) But that gives me an idea that would prolly be enough to get me started on that re-write of the Anpagan explorer (lost the whole pretty lenghty entry in a computer crash this summer; didn't feel that mood again ever since :( )

Good to see you get around and flesh out some more things, btw ;)


 Coren: I've answered these below

I love them!

 I was HOPING for black merfolk.... I have a picture in mind... however, do we really have to make them evil?  It's such a fantasy cliche - nor do we need to lend any support to accusations of racism, do we? 

Why not make your Light Mer light in mind and morals as well as in appearance, and have them be lightfingered magpies who acquire shiny things just as carelessly as packrats, with as little concern for whose property?  You could then have a lovely historical byplay between that tribe and others (or human divers) where the Light Mer are constantly 'raided' so that the illicitly-owned property can be retrieved...

I can see the booty all piled on a local pier, with people putting in their claims, and the unclaimed items being auctioned for the township... :)  And finally, might I suggest "Glittermer" (not only for their appearance, but for their love of shiny things) as an additional name for your "Light Mer"? 

You could then have your Black Mer still be creatures of mystery, perhaps solitary philosophers (at least as much as merfolk are capable of philosophising), brooding, thoughtful sorts who are known to keep to themselves but on occasions randomly aid humans lost at sea or fishermen in distress... just an idea!

I'd also add more details to distinguish each subrace, or 'pod' of merfolk, and also to distinguish them from their less-intelligent cousins:  physical/facial variants such as angle of ear slots, wider or more slanted eyes (perhaps the Deep Mer have transparent third-eyelids?) longer or frilled fins, more rudimentary arm-fins - (all in comparison to the semi-sentient Sarvonian merfolk, of course) a deeper red colour inside the gill slits...

Great concepts, again, Mira.... look for a picture in the New Year when you finish these...


 Coren: Great ideas Judith! Good to see you and Miraran pouring your brains over this issue!

lol yes, I like this. Any timeframe for this city though?
 Coren: Not yet... But as a 'city-state': certainly after the YoD (probably about a century or more later, depends how long it takes Krath to dissolve).


PS: so what's up with the "Mist Islands"?
 Coren: Nothing too exciting yet. I just have a few 'impressionist' mental pictures so far. Do you have anything in mind?

Such a lot of nice ideas!

I wonder though, how you could obtain so much information about the huge variety, how you can know they have shamans who have connections to the ancestors (read the Ayla books?) if they live so remote..

 Coren: Hmm, those are valid points we will have to consider and phrase carefully when we start writing. This is meant more as an omniscient 'developer's reference' thread ;)

@ Judy: I thought about black skinned Mermaids for Aeruillin, maybe in the Dark Sea of Egglysham .

quick note; ( not time for more) We know a lot about the Deep Mer because the Ter'ei'Vikh know these things about them (probably from observation), and someone or something has convinced the "Vikh tocooperate with sharing their knowledge with the compendium.

I have moved the Venice / Loreney related discussion to its own thread now.

As regards the use of 'Nybel':
1) I deliberately named Nybelriod after the continent - there is a story behind that (unfortunately you will all have to wait for a while ;)

2) I assume Nybel-mer is just the name Sarvonian scholars would have given to all the new merfolk species that have discovered around the continent. I would expect each tribe to have its own, unique Nybelmarian name. But thanks for bringing the issue to the surface - I never gave much thought to it really.

I have not so much a problem with Nybelmer, I just would avoid a too regular use. How many people call themselves Asian? How many European. Given that "Nybel" is originally a Aca-Santerran term it would only make sense if being used by Aca-Santerran context.

Hey! This interested me guys....



Has this 'trouble' been elaborated on since this was written?

Nope.

Any parameters or can I just go crazy with my suggestions  :evil:?

Had a few rough ideas:

Mountain....Orc/Goblin-men things...

I thought that perhaps we could have a race of barbaric creatures that are, in ways, similar to men. I would like for them to have similar frames to a men, except, taller and much thinner. They would have a kind of 'arched back' stance that, ,combined with their long arms, give them a very uncivilised look.

I would also like them to have slightly, sharper, longer teeth than a man as well as retractable claws. They would have very large eyes with wide pupils, due to their adjustment to the darkness, as well as horribly pasty, pale skin due to lack of sunlight. I also thought they could communicate in a series of tounge-clicks and screams (scary for the travellers hearing anonymous screams).

 I was thinking the Morcini (thats the Mushroom people name right?) believe these beastial creatures to be humans (perhaps Vikh?) who have been punished by 'The Hand' for some (as of yet) undecided reason, and for atonement are imprisoned in the darkness of the caves, legends saying that sunlight eventually will kill them.

I would like for these creatures to be very agile and also be able to climb the rock faces very easily and very quickly. I have images of these creepily-thin clawed, pale men crawling upon the 'ceiling' of caves, preying upon travellers. I also thought that they would leave their caves at night, perhaps to cause general trouble for the settlements near the mountains, but in somekind of hellish unison, like a swarm ravaging a certain location.

This is only a rough idea...and I am even whilst writing....thinking it could possibly be too animalistic as a race to prevent travel....

But if you guys like the idea....I would be happy to develop it further...

Rock-men

Almost like Ents made rock....I was hoping this race could be similar to that of the ents...In LOTR how they are 'sentient trees to ensure the safety of the non-sentient 'tree herd''....These Rock-men would see themselves as the guardians of the mountains.

I was thinking they could have deep ancient origin, like each one of them has existed for centuries. For their looks, I was thinking they would be similar to an 'organic statue', as if various parts of rock have been fused together to create them, and in some strange way they 'work' (Images of Marvel's 'The Thing' but with a more grubby, mishapen look come to mind). Its hard to articulate what I see in my mind in words...

An idea that I though would cool is these creatures are 'Clerics of the Mountain' and can shape the Mountain using their ancient language. I would like to have a very strong dislike of other races, finding them very pretentious (since they are so young in comparison) and feeing they are unworthy to step upon their 'sacred' mountains.

I would, as well their Arcane Rock-Singing Language, like for these creatures to be physically very strong (a man made of rock can't be weak!) but quite slow (but they have centuries to get wherever they need to go...so its not a problem!). I think that rather than walking everywhere at their slow speeds, they could mainpulate the mountain so that it moves around them, creating easier paths ECT.


I feel this idea is more workable than the above (and I prefer it!)...and it certainly fits with the exotic feel of Nybelmar...One problem I forsee is that this race would be very secluded and not very interactive with other races...Perhaps you could help me work around this?


Decipher

PS: Full of more ideas and will post at request....

Usually i would love your rock men.. but that would leave us with TWO clerical, antisocial, songmagery kinda people around the Porchini.. (not to mention creating a Race from scratch)


Although a meeting between the Rock Men and the "Vikh would be fun.. and lethal, for at least one of the parties involved :P

I do see your point Mira- I am just putting some ideas down....

Btw the Porcini was a joke! :P It is the name of a RL mushroom, favoured in Italian cooking heh

But maybe Morcini could be usable?

Solutions:

1) I too favour the Rock men idea over northern-nybelmarian-gollums.

2) Instead of making them a race, which is too much work and not essential to the development of the region atm, why not have scholars debate whether they are sentient (since both their movements and language are too slow to be intelligible)? And/or they could be so few, like dragons, that no 'race' template is necessary. In either case a bestiary entry should suffice.

Problem: I would see these "Guardians of the Mountains" as peaceful entities, even if isolated. So they would not create the kind of trouble/strife/skirmish we need.

Solution: More ideas?

There was a brief mentioning of the Moh'Sys being an accurate choice some time ago.. (vague Moh'Sys sightings leading to the 'Underground Hand' god of the Porchini (Realy Coren.. give the poor people a real name so that i can mention them!), and for some reason actively discouraging other races from entering the mountain ranges..)

That would mean expanding the territory of the Moh'Sys though. I am not sure whether they creator or Artimidor would approve of making them anything more than a myth.

Let's try to brainstorm a few other choices first therefore.

Maybe a sort of ant-humanoid cross instead of the spider-humanoid Mohsys?

Again creating a race. And a very limited race as well (unless we're featuring them again in other (as of yet off-limits) continents later)

How about Trolls?

What if we make them a cross between ants and some other animal? Then they need not be sentient - so long as they keep making their huge anthills.

As regards Trolls, see my original post above. If everybody agrees they are a workable solution however, I have no objections.

Uhm.. what original post exactly?

IMHO, the Trolls should work perfectly. They are strongly linked to rocks, even, as their corpses petrify instead of decaying. The entry also mentions there are trolls in Nybelmar, but doesn't list a tribe there, so it can be edited in quite easilly. They are highly dangerous and teritorial, and will pose a serious threat to anyone invading their home range.

It also brings a more or less forgoten race back to the minds of our collegues...


edit-> Please please please give the Porchini a final name! I have to refer to them in the "Vikh tribe entry!

Trolls are a good solution....But make them 'special Nybelmar trolls'....Perhaps give them some more defining features....Horns?

You are pretty good at coming up with names Mira! Why not suggest a few ;)

We're going italian on these?

Genomori (random)

Funtivili (Fungi-villa)

Manodi (Mane-deï)

uhm... you guys know that Kaerath is not a plain, but more like a desert? I actually imagine it as a sort of a rocky wasteland...

I was just checking that map again, and I saw "Inami" written on the area just west of Orcal. I know what that means lol, but I was thinking that those guys would actually live beyond that westernmost mountain range -> which would kinda make sense given the closeness of the so-called "Mist Islands"

Otherwise, Void Sails would also roam the area, being a bit more of a common apparition than they are on the south-western seas or in Venlaken. Don't forget the eye-crabs too :) So given that the area is supposed to be "unfriendly" I would rather go with a nybelmarian version of trolls rather than hyper-social antmen. This would also leave room for some other sorts of weird creatures as well :)

Kaerath just went from desert to plain, i'm afraid :P Lord Coren hath spoken...

So then why are the orcs living in that canyon if they have a nice fertile plain just right there? I think we should stick to the rocky wasteland...

Oh, no i see where this went wrong... there is the Kaerathi DESERT, where Orcal is, and the Kaerathi PLAINS, much further to the north, and the site of the Drifting Woods, the Lilivearan Enclaves, and the Mushroom People

I would like to inform everyone the Morchini are nearing the point where entries placed in their realm will be written. I will update their Dev Info in the first parts of this thread with a lot of interresting new facts about them soon. For questions, please contact either myself, or Drasil Razorfang.

edit->Morchini info file has been updated, irrelevant discussions have been removed from this thread, and Ruil's question about one of the Northern Bay realms has been Split into this topic (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12173.0.html)

I like these additions! Especially the ant-mushroom tower symbiotic relationship. We may need to tweak their caste system (the MPs to be precise) a little but I don't have any objections to the broad thrust of the idea.

(I will respond to this and the other threads later tonight or tomorrow hopefully. Battling through vacation scheme applications and an EU law analysis atm)

PS: Is it Drasil or Decipher?

He means me.  Mira and I spent a good hour last weekend coming up with ideas for the tribe so I decided to jump on the bandwagon.

I'm glad you like these ideas Coren, and i hope you'll be able to help sort out the caste system. It's verry roughly scetched now, so we'll need to work on it a lot to fill in the details..

For the Germeon Mountains: Nybelmar trolls and the peaceful guardians of the mountains (rock men) as the "attractions"? Or have we discarded these?

Also shall the ants remain pure ants or a combination of two/more animals/creatures? I am fine with either. I can already envisage these mushroom towers with their globular central nests under the roots...

(PS: I am too tired to respond to the other thread tonight, where I had most of my objections.)

Who knows coren, who knows. And personally i'd be satisfied with just the trolls..

I quite like Deci's rock guardians but I do understand your concerns of their being too similar to the Vikh in some respects. What if we scrap the song-spells and send them off to a different part of the continent? Maybe the lower (southern) half of the Germon Dolith mountain range? Or perhaps those mountains separating the Inami from Therrein Nermarein?

Question: What about their settlements and production? Do they trade - and with whom?

PS: Have any of you played the game I keep referring to?

I really like those rock men too (though we need to be careful with the extent to which they can manipulate the mountain, I found that fascinating anyway :) )

The Nermarein Mountains sound like a good location for them indeed, and I don't think they would be excluded by the presence of Morcaanan's singing dragons. They will have to live together though...

Coren: Maybe the Nermarein Mountains could be known as the "Shifting Mountains" for that reason? These "clerics of the mountains" keep remoulding them?

I was more concerned with the fact we'd be creating a realy, realy exclusive new race.. unless we write more versions of them later. (Deserts!)

I think it would indeed be wise to move them away from the Vikh just a bit, to prevent repetiveness,  the mountians west of the Far-Eastern nation would be suitable.

*added after reading Smith.->Well, now we already have two tribes of Rock Men. And i'd realy like to look for a desert where we can put one as well..

 Coren: Two tribes? One is in Nermarrein - where is the other?

 Mira: The other one would be in the southern Germon Dolith  

and if you're referring to Morrowind; yes i have

 Coren: Nope. It's Lords of Magic Special Edition (LOMSE), a VERY old game - I think it dates back to 1998

Wait...I thought we decided against the rock-troll lords Mira for multiple reasons.  First and foremost was the fact that we want to steer as far away from the new Races ban as possible.  Making these rock-people will only further complicate the process and, IMHO, it is not needed at all.  Secondly, it was agreed that we do not want to establish a new kingdom in the mountains, thus, instead of having a group of unified whatevers, we decided to go with a grouping of loose bands that would be formidible enought to cause trouble within the kingdom, but not a large enough to threaten the sovereignty of the Morchini.

From a cultural aspect, the Morchini, especially the MPs, IMHO would be more inclined to work with a species of rock/mountain people than fight against them.  Remember that their power derives from an earth-based form of magic(which provides fertility to their secale[will describe this in a bit when answering one of Coren's questions] and the ant-species[which we should name soon]) and would thus, IMHO, come to either work with or revere a race such as the rock-things that were a living incarnation of their magic.

Coren's Ant Question:  The physical description of the ant's isn't really fleshed out, but I think its safe to assume that they are just going to be large ants(not giant) focused around the hive-mind of the queen who lives in the Morchini MP mushrooms.  Something that I believe Mira forgot to mention is that the ants have created an elaborate system of tunnels through the Morchini territory(hence the numerous caves and such) and thus the majority of them are going to abroad roaming through the tunnels, gathering food, or spying instead of being close to the queen.  With this in mind, some sort of center nest underneath the Mushroom is probably the best option.

Coren's Trading Question:  Yes, they are going to be a trading people.  So far, we have them established as having a commerical economy based on agrarian exports.  The majority of the population tends to the secale(a highly nutritious grain whose growth is only possible with the assistance of MP magic).  This harvest is then substantially taxed by the military govenors(the dwarf-like Morchini) who in turn are taxed substantially by the MPs.  The MPs, thus are the ones controlling the majority of the country's commerce.  As for whom they trade with, I don't know enough about Nybelmar history to decide, but I believe that most of their trade would not take place with their neighbors due to hostilities.  While a bit might be exported to the Vihk and other neighboring tribes, IMHO, it would make most sense if they traded primarily with nations not in their proximity via sea trade or with the Sarvonian or Aeruillin continent.

FAEN MERCHANTS!

And yes, i've opposed the creation of a new race when it was mentioned.. but with both Coren, Decipher, and Smith in favor, i used the infallible tactic of "If you can't beat them, join them.". It's still not the best solution in my opinion, as there are many varieties that do not require a new race, but if the mayority wants to have sentient golems, so be it.

It doesn't have to be a new "race." Nor a new "nation." I mean, what? Can't we have some (sentient) rock beings shape-shifting a mountain somewhere in far west Nybelmar?

The "Shifting Mountains" sounds nice, I like that.

Coren: So more along the lines of a bestiary entry rather than a race? That would be better I think. And we don't even need to "declare" them to be sentient.

Mira: *agrees*

Yay for Decipher's idea!

I would write a Bestiary entry for these creatures....but would hint at possiblities of sentinent nature....Sound okay?

Btw....Which mountains are we specifing them to....

 Coren: If I understood Mira & Smith correctly: (1) southern part of Germon Dolith and (2)Therrein Nermarein ("Shifting Mountains", see above). Is everyone ok with the suggestion though? Drasil?

Personally, I'm against it, but my voice has little weight in this gathering so whatever you decide I'll go along with.

Yep, agreed. Bestiary entry with hints at sentience works perfect. After all, it's the same thing with dragons, isn't it?

Mira/Drasil: Could you summarize the discussion above and integrate the conclusions into the original post above? Thanks

::coughs::

You should go get that cough checked out Coren- seems chronic......

A correction: Apparently the gigantic tree I had in mind was an "umbrella thorn" (http://www.krugerpark.co.za/africa_umbrella_thorn.html) rather than a "banyan tree"! But having examined both, I think we could have gargantuan versions of each

Names for Coren:

Echinacea – Pricklewort, Royalspine, Aguebane

"The first two names are derived from the spiky centre of the flower, which children think resembles a miniature prickleboar.  Its more common title of 'Aguebane' comes from its remarkable ability to mediate the symptoms of a typical ague - the running nose, the stuffed head, the sore throat... all respond well to an infusion of Aguebane with malisehoney...."


Umbrella Thorn – Bumbertree, Fishhook,  Thorncloud

"Colloquially nicknamed the 'Bumbertree' or the 'Fishhook (from its resemblance to a Brownie mushroom used as a rainshelter, or its double-spiked thorns), this dramatic tree is better known as the Thorncloud.  From a distance one sees a series of misty greyish flat-bottomed shapes, looking exactly like rain clouds hovering on the horizon.  But as one approaches, one sees the haze resolve into narrow leaves with the viciously-pronged thorns protruding beyond them, clustered in their cloudlike masses on elongated limbs.  The best one can say about this tree is that it provides a great deal of shade, its dripcircle being almost XXX peds in diameter..."

The Lillivear descendants finally have a name! Check the relevant post in the first page of the thread!

Did mention that I thought the Amorais should be very good friends with the Tarshiinites, especially since it would pose an interesting problem for the Gondolwenmith when they started dogfights in the waters....

The Amorai ;)

I think I might have a few ideas there -hmm... Let's see if I can get a SHORT, rough draft for the Gondolwenmith up by the end of the week. Then we can take things from there. I don't want to bury myself under a huge undertaking so the whole Gondolwain project will hopefully be conducted through sub-entries