Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Santharian Artists Workshop and Resources => Topic started by: Gararion on 18 February 2007, 04:38:11



Title: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Gararion on 18 February 2007, 04:38:11
    Well I was planning on using this for the Nyemersys RPG on the other board, but thought I'd post here to get comments and to see if it would be useful on the site.  Also note that this is a reduced image size.  Wasn't sure if the full size would be needed.  If you guys wish, I'll repost the full size image.

    I am still wondering what sort of "labels' would be on such papers though.

(http://www.gararion.com/images/thumbpd1.jpg) (http://gararion.com/images/papersdraft1.jpg)


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 18 February 2007, 05:44:42
Birthplace/Date and Parents perhaps?

I'm just spitballing here...


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 18 February 2007, 08:54:35
Name, Age/ Year of Birth? Citizenship?


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Scael Pelegrene on 18 February 2007, 08:58:29
Just a quick question,

How would the picture be developed? Is there a magical means for this? Does the City of Death have a staff of artists on hand for creating these papers?

Scael Pelegrene


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Gararion on 18 February 2007, 10:35:00
Well the Picture is optional.  Thus a Description would be needed.  But a picture could be commissioned for people who thought they needed such things, thus wealthy people.  This version is also more of a durable version.  I am also thinking of doing a plain paper one, like credentials.


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Scael Pelegrene on 18 February 2007, 10:57:26
Excellent.

On that subject then, how far has artistic representation come in Santharia or Nyermersys, in particular. For example, in most of medeival Europe, realistic representation was not that common, really being developed more during the Renaissance.

Scael Pelegrene


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Mirmec Rethindor on 18 February 2007, 12:44:05
actually you have to wonder how many citizens could actually read in whatever society you are talking about.

i think a crest of the county/region you live in, plus the magistrate's mark that you are a taxpaying citizen should suffice. Nobles of course would have their coat of arms on there, and their papers would be in much fancier materials and carrying cases. Probably the Noble House's Mark for product production would also be prominent. for example wine makers have a makers mark, craftsman have a makers mark, but all that would be part of the mark of the Noble house of ______ .


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 21 February 2007, 07:15:10
Well, identification papers really mainly make sense with a photo to identify a person. And photos can't really exist in a medieval society, so this seems quite problematic for me and defeats the intended purpose. Even noblemen won't have such small pictures depicting themselves in identification papers - they's let a large portrait be drawn. The frame could nevertheless e.g. do its purpose for some sort of certificate of sorts, this I could imagine much better.

@Mirmec: Is that avatar picture made intentionally that way? Somehow I always have to chuckle when I see it as it looks as if a dwarf desperately tries to get into the frame of a picture (but is too small) and the guy holding the camera shoots at the wrong moment, which explains his stern look (he thinks about calling the photographer names)...  :grin:


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Mirmec Rethindor on 21 February 2007, 12:41:55
i went to the german avatar page, and i looked for a dark skin dwarf, but when i tried to resize it to 60 x 60 it just cuts off to the upper right hand corner of the picture.

it is funny, actually we are lucky i didnt just get his hand or something  :grin: buts its better than the sky picture of the San Isabel mountains don't you think??


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Gararion on 21 February 2007, 15:02:02
Okay.  So do you think even a pencil sketch of such a person would be out of the question?  Perhaps replacing the photo with a wax seal of some sort?  We wouldn't have any sort of foil to use would we, like gold leaf in the RL?


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 21 February 2007, 15:57:34
@Mirmec: Well, tell me where you found your pic and I'll crop it properly for you.

@Gararion: Wax seal would surely fit better in my view. Maybe a coat of arms of the house or something as well.


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Finnael on 07 March 2007, 15:00:25
Why not a family tree of sorts with the crests/coat of arms of the person and their families of lineage?
A wax seal is also a great idea, Art.... maybe possibly from both the person being identified as well as a witness with high social status in the birth area?


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Irid alMenie on 08 March 2007, 00:36:32
I don't know how feasible that suggestion is for the RPG board, Finnael. To give an example, my character Garth is now waiting to get an identification paper like that in Nyermersis. Ok, he had parents (who both died), but they're Helcrani, and he doesn't know his grandparents, so the family tree would stop there already. And many people don't have a coat of arms, that's something only nobles have (I think?)

Or is it meant to be a paper that everyone gets in his/her place of birth?


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: xerampelinae deicida on 08 March 2007, 13:43:28
I think we should have different id papers for different things. Here are some ideas listed in order of increasing difficulty to forge.

level 1
papers that basically tell who you are your signature would be on it so they could compare it to your signature. A local magistrate would sign confirming you are who you say you are.

This id would be the cheapest and used by those who need ids for legal reasons.

level 2
a ring seal would be added. This seal would be registered at a port and could be put next to all signatures for verification.

Merchants who wish to avoid thieves using forgery to take their cargo would use these, as well as some government officials.

level 3
A seal would usually be present but not necessary. The id would be enchanted to glow whenever the person it belonged to was holding it.

This id would be extremely rare and used mainly by high ranking nobility, thou some extremely wealthy merchants would also have these.



Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Finnael on 08 March 2007, 17:25:58
Or is it meant to be a paper that everyone gets in his/her place of birth?
You made a good point with the crests on how not all families would have them. That is correct.

Maybe it could be signed by the birthparent/s and sealed with the birthtown's political symbol (or even just the coat of arms of the highest noble [as a witness] of the area if no symbol is available?).

@xera: I like that idea of levels of security from forgery based on status.


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: Irid alMenie on 08 March 2007, 19:05:22
So what happens to people who can't write? And orphans?

(I'm just trying to help get the flaws out of the plan, I'm not attacking anyone *grins*)


Title: Re: Identification Papers? We need?
Post by: xerampelinae deicida on 10 March 2007, 04:45:04
orphans could be reffered to by where there from
ex: Thane of Mantharia,

their occupation
ex: Thane the smith

something they made up
ex: Thane the incredibly good looking

or something someone else made up
ex Thane the conceded.