Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Bard Judith on 20 July 2007, 01:48:34



Title: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 20 July 2007, 01:48:34
(to be categorized with Muscles and Body Parts, under Medicine, I guess!)
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Throughout the Kingdom of Santharia one may hear many different dialects, local expressions, interesting proverbs and songs, and, of course, specific folk words for certain things.   One of the more interesting 'tells' to judge one's location within the Kingdom would be to simply ask a child or granny what they call the various fingers on their hands.

Those useful digits we know as 'Thumb, Forefinger, Middle, Ring, and Pink', have their own particular names everywhere, and in some places their own songs or riddles.   Surely many of us heard our mother or grandam chant this or a similar rhyme when we were small:

"I have five sturdy serving men -
They do their duty well,
On either hand
They curl or stand
And here their names I'll spell..."


Of course, here the ditty will deviate considerably, depending upon where the singer was raised, and one may reliably guess the province, if not the very town, of birthplace, if one has the knowledge we have gathered for you here below.   Not all tribes are represented, as our wandering bards may not have yet reported in with their findings, and there is, as always with any attempt of the Compendiums to map linguistic areas, much overlap, variation, and blending.  Be that as it may – enjoy the variety here given, and the next time you count your change out on your fingers at the marketplace, see if some of the picturesque names do not run through your head!


Glandorian:  Thumb, Fore, Mid, Ring, Pipkin

Darian:  Thumble, Pointer, Middy, Heartfinger, Pinkie

Shan’Thai:  Dumth, Tosher (Toucher), Midfin’er, Leche, Babe

Averish:   Grabbler, Tousher, Middie, Ringie, Pinky

Sophronian / Erph:  Hiltfinger / Thumb, Bowyer, Proudman, Ring, Page

Caltharian:  Hame, Stirrer, Longman, Rover, Dingle

Eyelian:   Modern or 'city' Eyelians have been known to use Leader, Merchant, Fighter, Farmer, Salter - however, everyone from granther to toddler knows the old names, as in this rhyme below.  Note that they begin with the first finger and end with the thumb 'finishing the set'.

Little Eyelians count on pack numbers five
The first being Alpa, like a wolf in disguise
Onto Ursa, Mighty and Tall
And Grota the third as the heart of it all
Little Eaglet is the smallest finger yet
And short, sturdy, Jay finishes the set.


Sophronian:  Thoom, Pointer, Langley,  Nextle, Lastle

Stratanian:   Tomm, Bes, Saylo, Hart, Pip

Central Santharia / New Santhala:  Thumb, Forefinger, Midfinger, Ringfinger, Pink

The Kuglimz, literal-minded northerners that they are, call them simply:

Vir'ng--Thumb (lit. "finger one")
Nuk'ng--Second finger (lit. "finger two")
Mur'ng--Third finger (lit "finger three")
Nek'ng--Fourth finger (lit. "finger four")
Teig'ng--Fifth finger (lit. "finger five")

However, they do also have nicknames, as seen in the delightful little rhyme below, which Kuglimz mothers teach their babies:

Vir, la’la’ng         One [is] mama thumb
Nuk,  v’lyr’ng      Two [is]  oldest son
Mur,  den sah’ng,   Three [is] tall daddy
Nek, mara wyn’ng    Four [is] golden girl (“mara’wyn” is the Kuglimz term for a daughter who is her daddy’s “princess”)
Cone, cym'ng   (Last [is] little one!










Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 July 2007, 03:31:16
You make me giggle, Bard.  The way you can take something as mundane as the fingers on your hand and make it magical.  I swear, you have the heart and soul of this world inside you.  Very nice work. :grin:


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 20 July 2007, 03:48:56
Pinky for the little finger?  (never heard this before and it sounds terrible in my ears - why pinky?)

In German it is just "little (or small) finger", don't know if there are special expressions in some dialects.

A nice collection though, Judy!

Stratanian, Darian and maybe Averish (Glandorian +Darian)should have some more "sounds" in common, for they are all somehow related.
Stratanian derived from Darian=Shendar + some Epheronian influence in the south.

In Shan'Thai their society could show - they do have a kind of slavery!


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 20 July 2007, 03:57:14
Well, whatever the reason, but "pinkie/pinky" seems to be the commonly used English expression for the small finger (see Leo (http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=on&search=pinky&relink=on)).


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Petros Greenvale on 20 July 2007, 05:05:26
Wow!!!...Once you get an idea in your head you cant stop writing amazing stuff, can you? :D

So you are a talented musician, Amazing Artist, Excuisite Writer, English teacher and a parent...where do you find the time? :grin:

Oh...you couldnt perhaps do the names of the fingers in styrash could you? :heart:


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 July 2007, 05:32:17
Why does everything have to be in Styrash all the time?

Why not the Dwarven tounge or the Kuglimz language?


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Petros Greenvale on 20 July 2007, 09:58:05
Face it Decipher...Elves are SO much cooler than Dwarves!!! :fish: :lol:


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 20 July 2007, 10:14:22
Petros.... beware the wrath of the Dwarvenmistress...

We Thergerim don't just whack people with soggy little fish - we use our smithy hammers  :hammer:

And you really should read through some of the Dwarven entries before making such grandiose claims.  Caelerethian dwarves  live in active volcanoes - swear impressive oaths - wear lavish embroidery - brew amazing drinks - concoct 'bread' out of mushrooms - get married in the altogether - raise their children communally - handwrite their sacred scriptures from start to finish as an act of worship - and much, much more.   DWARVES ARE COOL!


Talia - while I agree that 'pinkie / pinky' is a rather silly word, it IS the English standard.  I don't know the etymology, but it should be included in at least one list of the digit names.  It doesn't have to be the standard ('Received Pronunciation' :) ) expression in Santharia, though... how about 'pipkin', bearing with it the sense of 'small' or 'littlest one'?  

For the Darian and Averish, I used what we have extant about the dialectal forms, as seen in the tribe entries - they may not reflect the historical patterns of language dispersal but then again we don't have an overarching compilation of such!  Which is why some of the tribes aren't listed at all, as you may notice - we know so little about them that I didn't dare begin defining their speech patterns.  Really, we should get a few basic outlines down for the missing ones - it goes hand in hand with nomenclature (people AND places!)

If you have some more 'authentic' suggestions for the Stratans, please do give some ideas here.  I thought they might, as portspeople and travellers/sailors, have been influenced by a variety of cultures and tried to reflect that in the more 'exotic' names - but I can also use that list for another tribe instead.

Everyone, thanks for the feedback!  (blows kiss to Altario)


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Petros Greenvale on 20 July 2007, 10:59:29
Calm the beans hen!! :peace:, no need to take out that hammer besides ive got a fish and im not afraid to use it!! :grin: :P

i never said dwarves werent cool...its just that their not AS cool as elves. ;)

Sorry to invoke your wrath Dwarven Mistress :hug:

(i love these wee smileys :heart:)


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 July 2007, 02:47:06
I still prefer dwarves to elves...Elves are too common...We have unique Dwarven culture (not that Elven culture isnt original too!)


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Petros Greenvale on 21 July 2007, 02:55:02
Well, cant we just say that there both cool in their own way. Dwarves have their volcanoes and axes and Elves have their forests and bows. :D


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2007, 04:07:06
And we shoudl probably add the Krean, Shar, and "Vikh names as well, if we're making a complete guide Decipher..


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 21 July 2007, 12:08:31
@ Judy: Pipkin sounds nice!

Traditions can change, so we really can have totally different names - but I'm bad with inventing some. Maybe there is just one traditions kept (reason!) that one finger has the same name and the others have different ones? (No idea yet)

Edit: Thought about taking  the Ringfinger, but Heartfinger is so nice! I would not want to  miss it. Thought about an miniscule submission about the names ring-finger/heartfinger and the differences between Darian and Glandorian ;)
Not now!


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 08 August 2007, 08:12:50
  Masterbard, this is so much more colorful than the convention of simply numbering digits: First digit/thumb, second digit/index finger...  This is a delight to read!  By the way, are fingernails still referred to as such in Santharia?  And knuckles and wrists, too?  Please could we keep these names, as I've committed to adding Santharthritis to the DoD (Discourse on Diseases)?

  This is wonderfully illustrative, Judith!  Thank you for putting delightful labels on what had previously been mundane appendages!


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 13 January 2008, 07:27:07
BUMPING to contribute to the just-initiated discussion on names for body parts.... :)


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 26 March 2008, 00:56:23
Here are some Kuglimz names.  "Niwg" is their word for unspecified finger, but when combining it with other syllables to specify, they shorten it to "ng"

Formal

Vir'ng--Thumb (lit. "finger one")

Nuk'ng--Second finger (lit. "finger two")

Mur'ng--Third finger (lit "finger three")

Nek'ng--Fourth finger (lit. "finger four")

Teig'ng--Fifth finger (lit. "finger five")

Sorry, but the Kuglimz people are VERY literal.  That's what they would call them.

However, there would also be nicknames and so I include them as follows:

Lala'ng--Thumb ("mama finger"--the most important finger is named after the mother, for as the childbearer/rearer she is the most important family member to the family centered Kuglimz)

V'lyr'ng--Second finger ( "first born son finger")

Sah'ng--Third finger ("daddy finger" --the biggest one)

Wyn'ng--Fourth finger("daughter/girl finger")

Cym'ng--Fifth finger("baby/small finger)

There you are!


Alysse


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 26 March 2008, 13:49:34
Awwwwwww!   This is great -I particularly like the thumb as 'mama finger'... it runs around touching all the others and doing most of the work.... :D


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 14 April 2008, 00:14:38
I love this discussion, Mrs. Judith, but surely we Eyelians would not choose such... ugh... cosmopolitan names for our fingers. Why not something a bit more feral? Perhaps on our "pack" of fingers we have the (Pointer) Alpha (as in wolf), (Middle) Ursine, (Ring) Grothar, (Little) Eaglet, and (Thumb) Jeyrial.
Eh?


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 14 April 2008, 01:30:15
Great suggestions, 'Siki - though perhaps erring now on the too-literal side.  Surely after centuries of use the names would have been 'eroded' a bit - how about:

Alpa, Ursa, Grota, Egle, Jay

or something similar?   Let me know - I'll be updating the top post with Alysse's suggestions as well soon.  :)


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 14 April 2008, 09:56:56
Little Eyelians count on pack numbers five
The first bieng Alpa, like a wolf in disguise
Onto Ursa, Mighty and Tall
And Grota the third as the heart of it all
Little Eaglet is the smallest finger yet
And short, sturdy, Jay finishes the set.

Please can we keep Eaglet?
It has such a cute little "pinky" ring to it.
;P


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 14 April 2008, 10:44:59
Awwwww!  I'm completely won over.  So it shall be!


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 14 April 2008, 11:09:50
That's adorable!  Jays up to you, N'siki  :D

Now I shall have to come up with some sort of rhyme for Kuglimz babies to learn their fingers on...


Alysse

edit: ok, here it is.  A little chant mothers teach their babies.

Vir, la’la’ng         One [is] mama thumb
Nuk,  v’lyr’ng      Two [is]  oldest son
Mur,  den sah’ng,   Three [is] tall daddy
Nek, mara wyn’ng    Four [is] golden girl (“mara’wyn” is the Kuglimz term for a daughter who is her daddy’s “princess”)
Cone, cym'ng   (Last [is] little one!

When Kuglimz mothers sing this to their babies, they traditionally kiss each finger in turn, right after it is named.  This is an old custom signifying a blessing on each member.


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 14 April 2008, 13:48:08
Double 'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww's!

AND it rhymes in Kuglimz!   

This is gonna be the kyoootest entry ever....


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Irid alMenie on 14 April 2008, 16:03:20
Hey Judy, since you know a little Dutch, I thought I'd share the rhyme that we have in dutch for the fingers. Who knows, you might be able to do something with it...

This is a rhyme to get children in bed. Each finger of the child is taken between thumb and index of the mother (or whoever says the rhyme) and shaken softly.

Naar bed, naar bed! Zei Duimelot
Eerst nog wat eten, zei Likkepot
Waar zullen we 't halen? Vroeg Lange Jan
In grootmoeder's kastje! zei Ringeling
Dan zal ik 't vertellen! Zei 't Kleine Ding.

(Duimelot: Thumb, Likkepot: index finger, Lange Jan: middle finger, 'tall John', Ringeling should be obvious, Klein Ding: pinky.)

I don't really know how to translate the names, but Likkepot means that this is the finger that we use when we want to taste something, like whipped cream or whatever, and we 'lick' it off. For those of you who don't know Dutch, the translation of the rest of the rhyme, without the fingers is:

To bed, To bed!
First we have to eat something,
Where are we going to get it from?
From grandmother's cupboard!
Then I will tell!


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 14 April 2008, 19:12:01
Duimelot - 'inch of destiny' says Babelfish.  Can anyone make sense of that for the thumb?  Maybe 'short but important'?

Likkepot - love this one ... 'lick the pot'

Lange Jan - Tall John

Ringeling - Ring around

Klein Ding - Little(est) thing


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Irid alMenie on 14 April 2008, 21:58:13
:lol: Honestly, don't trust babelfish. That's just too funny!

Yes, you can translate 'lot' as 'destiny', but Duimelot is really just a cute name for the thumb... Something like Lancelot, only with the thumb...


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 14 April 2008, 23:30:05
Yeah, I thought you'd like that one, Irid!   Babelfish is a joculator, not a counsellor; I only run texts through it for amusement.  Nonetheless Duimelot was the only one my pot-Dutch wasn't up to getting on its own, so I thought it worth the effort... :D


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 May 2008, 21:05:04
Does anyone from a different area of Caelereth have any other contributions to this?  It would be nice to be able to get it into the next update, otherwise - I need my name on at least ONE finished entry or Art will start wondering if my creativity is leaking out my ears....


I've added in all the ideas to date, so it's as complete as it's going to get from my end.

 :heart:



Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 27 May 2008, 21:17:12
Well, you have a bunch of entries/pics etc. that would just need the final touch, Judy - so I'm sure there's more to finish if you have some time ;)

Anyway, here the mail problem is that the entry doesn't fit into any proper scheme, there are no sections and such - but yeah, I guess we'll just have to put it up the way it was posted here.


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 27 May 2008, 21:18:56
*cough* The Zirghurim Dwarves *cough*

 :D :D


Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 May 2008, 21:44:00
(hums, pretending she doesn't hear any throat problems) :P

Er, well, yes, I know, Art, but we thought it might go under Medicine / Body Parts?  There has to be SOMEWHERE for miscellaneous interesting information....  :)

And I am actually looking at getting some of those 95%ers up and running.  Hopefully before final exams come round and 'vanish' me for another couple of weeks....



Title: Re: Putting One's Finger On It: Names for the Bodily Digits in Santharia
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 28 May 2008, 00:46:28


BTW:  Nicholas loves the little rhyme for the Kuglimz babies (the Tharian translation) and repeatedly requests " 'Gain!" amid helpless giggling.  So it's passed the most critical tester. :D

Alysse