Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 03:16:22



Title: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 03:16:22
Five hours straight, more or less, with constant research/referral to the relevant Compendium entries, where extant, reading through about ninety different cities/areas' Climate sections to try to compile an overview of Sarvonia... but here it is - the first draft climate zone map for this continent.


The dotted areas are educated guesses, but all other coloured areas are indicated by their zones (which see in the Climate thread), shorthand for the climate specified in that area.  In some cases that was represented by a single sentence in an entry for one city within the area, in others plenty of supporting information such as crops, but in all cases that climate has been verified with what exists on the site.

And you know what's really amazing?  It makes sense!  It works out!  It is as internally consistent as if we had all discussed it years ago and agreed to draw this map then - in fact, probably more so....

We could use a bit MORE climactic variance, such as Ximax has, or the little enclaves here and there, but people seem to prefer describing a 'temperate damp' climate overwhelmingly... :) check for yourselves if you don't want to take my word for it!

The south has a nice up-close map and a nice up-close descriptive section, so it can be done in more detail later - if there are errors anywhere they will be there, if only because there is more detail given in specific entries which isn't incorporated.  And the far north isn't done yet either, but you can see the beginnings of it at the top of this map.

Now, it's three in the morning.  I am going to bed!   Will try to check in and respond to comments, critiques, etc. in the mor.... er, I mean later today...


Edited July 7th:  South removed - Talia will do separate map

Edited July 10:  New maps and zone colours added.  Please keep checking this first post from now on as well as subsequent discussions!

A template has been provided AND an example of how you could fill it in, using the newest Zone Colour Chart. 



Edited July 24:  Complete Sarvonian Climate Chart draft version posted.  Please comment!  South  is only estimated.  Northerners, does everything look all right on your end of things?   I've tried to take warm currents, mountains, general distances, and other things mentioned or assumed in relevant entries, but I'm not ommipotent.  Remember that 'permafrost' in the ground doesn't have to mean iced-up seas/ports...

Note as of July 25:  I have tried to keep in mind the general summation from the Currents discussion:  "Generally - the west coast looks colder than the east coast, which might be a bit protected from these cold currents/winds due the Kanapan peninsula. The storms would be far stronger in the west . Sanguia might be a bit sheltered by the Ximaxian peninsula, but (the) Zirghirim will need warm clothes...."


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 10 July 2008, 03:52:34
Ohhh pretty colors! I didn't think it got that cold in the Tandalas...does that mean farther north it gets colder? I thought it would start off in the Ashmari lands as Cold Bleak or Temperate, not Frozone. But, I'll wait to see the north climate map to be sure.  :)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 July 2008, 04:48:36
Is this a summer map?

It seems it does not fit the climates I described in the Rahaz-Dath and Narfost Plain. I have to check, if my descriptions could be so misinterpreted. I doubt, it fits the climate I described in the Climate of Santharia , not enough cold areas (in winter) throughout Santharia. How shall there be snow everywhere, when the temperature never drops under zero? What is left for Aeruillin if Santharia ia already so warm?

Varcopas, arid , hot and dry? I described it as a town, where temperature just not drops under zero (or only very rarely), with a temperate weather, where it is due to the sea not too hot.

Narfost Plain: Labeled as central coastal, mild winters, hot summers, (10-20), damp --> nothing applies, it is not damp there, and colder

"Spring is the time when - for a short period - the rain falls in abundance and often very heavy. This is the time when the alth‘ho grass starts to grow again after a frosty winter, when the gorges and canyons fill with water and the cascades at Bardavos are at their highest level. The temperatures are agreeable , though the nights may be still cold. Later in the year the rainfalls get more and more scarce till there are none till late in the winter when heavy snowfalls can occur. The temperatures rise in the summer to uncomfortable heights, though of course it is nothing compared to the desert to the south. In winter they fall below the freezing point and snow is possible in the late winter."

And more..   :speechless:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Sarvonia
Post by: Mina on 10 July 2008, 05:00:38
I think the Sharadon Bolder forests are Elven too, I think. 


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 09:03:31
If everyone wants to describe their climate as 'temperate' that doesn't leave a lot to work with.  I went by very general zones as laid out in the map legend and specifically stated that this was a first draft AND that the south would need to be done in more detail later.

South removed. 


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 10 July 2008, 09:23:31
The only reason the Tandalas are so cold, Azhira, is because they are a very high mountain range.  In the Celeste Lowlands and Ashmarian lands, it IS warmer--perhaps temperate in the summer, but quite cold and snowy in the winter.  Closer to the coastlines, there is less seasonal temperature variance due to the moderating effect of the water, but inland the range will be much higher.

Judy, this must have been a tremendous amount of work--I am frankly awed by your perseverance.  Kudos to you for your hard work and your dedication to the Dream. :clap: :clap:

Thank you, and I'm sure that both Azhira and I (and Tharoc) will do what we can to help where the Northlands are concerned.  Because of the rugged territory up there, there will be quite a bit of variance there.

Thanks again, I'm lost in admiration. :thumbup: :thumbup:


Alysse


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 12:26:18
Thanks!  A bit of oil on ruffled waters always appreciated.   So, wanna help with the Northern Climate Map? :P

This is first draft for two reasons:

A)  first, it's only a compilation - I haven't invented or even theorized anything except where the map has 'spotted' outlines - places for which there was no information, no city entries, or even plant placements.   If there are inconsistencies or what you see as errors, that is only to be expected given that this reflects nearly ninety different entries, fifty different developers, and eight years of development history.  In fact, I repeat, I'm amazed by how consistent a result this mapping HAS produced!     If anything on the map needs changing, that PROBABLY means the entry needs changing, so think long and hard about that and go to the original source, as I did.  You can take exception with my categorizations if you have some evidence to the contrary, or want to reinterpret the data, no problem. 

B)  Of course, the second point is that in some cases I did have very little data, or data that was hard to reconcile with the climate zones - which themselves are a proposal and an attempt to simplify the various non-standard descriptions of climate which we have already on the site.   My categories do not cover Ximaxian extremes of weather, for example, nor, obviously, the peculiar climates in the south which allow such things as desert (hot, dry, arid), lush oases (hot and wet), thunderstorms, salt pans, volcanoes, icy mountains, and other variations.  That will all have to be worked out on its own.

The climate zones themselves can be tweaked, added or divided.  For example, the 'temperate' Central Coastal (mild, moist) which is the purple coding on the map, is quite extensive and could probably be subdivided into two shades of purple for warmer/cooler, wetter/drier, or - probably the most useful - moderate variation / extreme variation.   



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Mannix on 10 July 2008, 13:00:17
Eh..eh..ehm  WOOO!!! Go Judy!  Looks like a lot of hard work, and will be immensly helpful.  Let's see, hobbits look fine, you even put hotter summers at the Shire of Elenveran.  Th gnomes look fine so far, but as you said you haven't done the north, and so the most northern forest, Calmarios.  Hmm... this ones a toughie.  It does have elves living in it, but the Gremm were there first. Would it be and elven forest?  Yet again Bravo Judy!

Mannix


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 13:08:37
Well, climate-wise, that only concerns us if the elven presence has an effect on the forest environs.  The elven forests have been described as their own climate zone, one where ice can sheath the perimeter trees in a frosted glimmering coating, but in the heart of the forest it is dappled sunny summer...      I haven't checked whether there is a Calmarios entry, and if so, whether it has climate listed...

If you have any suggestions, the North is next, so that would be very much appreciated!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Mannix on 10 July 2008, 13:40:47
We don't have one that I can find.  I'd say the elves have affected the forest, as they did
live there for roughly 4000 years.  But then they left after an orc attack.  Later elves and half elves claimed to be their descendants, but the Gremm had them removed from their forest by the Aellenrhim.  So the forest is only gnome filled now.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 July 2008, 15:32:28
I'm sorry, Judy, If I didn't appreciate your work first before pointing out errors. It was a lot of work, as I can tell, my question is however, was it worth the effort? Firstly, how many additional errors might be in there? (When I see, how much nonsense about astronomical things I can find in newspapers, a area which I'm slightly competent in, I always wonder, how many errors a newspaper contains in general, things which I not notice, because I'm not competent.)

I don't really want to step on your toes, but did it really make sense to look through 100 entries to see, what for climate descriptions they have? The were set arbitrarily, what the actual developer liked most just in this moment and did probably not consider the whole picture. Would it not have made more sense to look at the map and think about what climate the most probably is in this region? And then think about to change the one or other (major) entry and just keep the smaller ones as a strange local variety.  As you say, it is a wonder you got this result!

As I said, your map does not reflect at all the climate entry of Santharia, apart from the elven forests. Another work I did in vain?

To some areas: These Central coastal regions - they aren't really damp areas, especially in the north (Carmalad) aren't they? Not hotter than 22 degrees in summer?The area between the two Fores (dotted though) doesn't look for me like Central Balmy with mild winters and hot summers (22?), but susceptible to cold freezing winds from the north and very hot summers.

Again, I see that was a lot of work, thanks for it :), but hopefully it we can use it as it is!

Do you have copied out all these climate sections? Would be a cool list to look at...

I will have a try at the Rahaz-Dath map,  you could take the areas from there once I'm finished. :)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 16:53:48
Well, I took what I could from your general climate entry, but I also tried to respect the work of so many other developers both before and after that submission. I don't think that they did merely choose climate arbitrarily, but at the very least looked at the map - many people mentioned the moderating influence of the water/coast, just as you pointed out, for example, or gave specific geographic reasons for why their area was a certain way.   

Again, this is a compilation, subject to change, and I'm not about to defend it simply because of the work I put in to collect the information.  I am just saying that instead, that information has to be judged one piece at a time to see how it fits together.  Like this:


STAGE ONE:   See if any classifications are wrong - then I can change the colour of those areas on the map  - just as you've pointed out above:  "These Central coastal regions - they aren't really damp areas, especially in the north (Carmalad) aren't they? Not hotter than 22 degrees in summer?The area between the two Fores (dotted though) doesn't look for me like Central Balmy with mild winters and hot summers (22?), but susceptible to cold freezing winds from the north and very hot summers." 

What does it look like to you?  What colour/zone class would you suggest instead?  Do we need to create two or three more zone divisions to cover some areas?

 When any classification errors have been changed, then we have a Draft Two map.


STAGE TWO:   Look at the Draft Two map and find inconsistencies or things that should be changed in the ENTRIES from which they were drawn (I do think that adding a word or two or deleting a word or two shouldn't be a big change for most people, especially if we can check with them first before applying any 'master' climate plan.).   

Change the inconsistencies, then change the map to reflect that.  Draft Three!


STAGE THREE:   Every developer of a specific area (such as the Rahaz-Dath, yes, that would be greatly appreciated!  If you just cut-and-paste the map legend with the colours, you can even work directly on the map that way and it's already codes for you.) gets a chance to put in their own variations, abberancies, volcanic action, exceptions, and so on.  Who wants five boring bands of colour evenly across the disc?  :P

Oh, and I have some, but not all, of the climate references collated from last night, so, yes, I'll post them. Good idea -that will save some work if anyone wants to help you check the Stage One facts, right?



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 16:54:36
CLIMATE COLLATION (not comprehensive, but a start)


-  "all variations from mild winters and agreeable summers to extreme seasons with a lot of snow till far in the south or heat waves till the distant north can be experienced.
- sea has a balancing effect on extreme weather conditions"


Northern Sarvonia:
Tandalas – frosty winters
Generally, the weather is the coldest in the northern Tandalas, which are in high summer about twice as far away from the warming rays of the Injèrá than the southernmost point, the Scattersand Shoals.
Entry says “a mildly cool climate, though the temperature tends to decrease, becoming colder, as one journeys up the mountains. The mountains that lay in the farthest eastern boards of the Tandala Highlands experience much rain and fog while the more western mountains receive very little. This diverse weather and climate is what has helped the Highlands have the wide range of plants and animals that is does. Mountain summits tend to be rather cold, and in winter, many of the mountain peaks experience light snowfall.”

Stone Fields of Peat – fog and rain, not a lot of snow -  chilly winters and cool summers

In the Prominent Mountain range, the mountains are always snow-topped, though the valley climate is more variable. This far north, the winters are long and cold, but for several months during the spring, summer, and fall - from late in Singing Bird to Sleeping Dreameress - the climate is comfortable for traveling, though the winds that sweep through the mountain passes can be strong.

Shaded Forest lies quite north, its climate typical with cold winters and temperate summers. Sheltered by the Prominent Mountains there are rarely any serious blizzards, yet some avalanches may occur during extremely cold winters.

Veltin – drier and cooler

Celeste: generally cool in the summer and crisp in the winter times due to its position. The mountainous area itself though is another matter. The thick hazes of sulfurous gases make the valleys between the mountains very warm and the air thick. As one climbs higher up the mountain slopes the haze lifts and the chill air is like a violent shock. It is not uncommon to see the rims of the dormant volcanoes lined with snow in the winter.
Another entry says: there are a few months in summer where the temperature rises to cool rather then cold…

Kanapan Peninsula (an exception):  weather on this peninsula is quite different from all of the lands that surround it. While the lands adjoining the peninsula are cold and dry, this place is temperate and moist. This unusual circumstance is due to the mountains and cliffs that surround the whole of the northern and western sections. There are two weather fronts that are in this general region. There is an east-west Cold Front, and a north-south Warm Front. They collide in this region and are held there by the northern mountains and cliffs. The fronts will often actually run into each other in the north and north-eastern areas of the peninsula, causing warmer weather along with more precipitation in the area. This is what allows the grasslands of the north and the swamps of the northeast to survive

Warnakas – cold, bleak, foggy

Lu’Weilima has very distinct climates.. In spring there are immense storms, Summer creates a mild temperature, Fall has always been considered the best time of year, cool, but not yet crisp. winter in this region is not nearly as severe as further north, it is still something to be careful of. Howling winds. Snow blankets the ground,

Northern Sarvonia - in high summer a boat can force its way through the frozen seas, one can come to the northern Etherial Void in but a day or two’s time.

Central Sarvonia
Most of Santharia north of the Sharadon is covered with a white blanket of snow during winter. How much snow this will be and how long it stays varies with the place and the local conditions however. So the snow in Ravenport lying at the sea will rarely cover the ground for more than a few hours each day, melting with the rising temperatures till midday, whereas on the north slopes of the Rimmerins Ring, though this mountain stock lies fairly south, can last till the month of the Changing Winds.

Horth / Kruswik – moderate, winter pasturing, good for wine – cold, dry
Salsair – holds Horse festival in summer, so must be dry and cool
Ilian Plateau – supports Miyu, thin and dry

Bolder is a temperate forest, with a mix of deciduous and evergreen species. Summer is extremly hot, while winter is mild. The Bolder gets rather less rainfall than one would expect for the province of Vardýnn. This is due to the rainshadow effect of the Warnaka Mountains. The area, however, is drained by the streams that emanates from the mountain peaks. Return to the top

Anaios Rift where murderers and adulterers were given over to Queprur, innermost recesses of the Maehetilon. Said Maehetilon, a forest bordering on the cliff, is extremely dense
Alvang – aggressive, stormy, wet

Though at times a lot of snow can fall, even till sea level and though it can be very frosty, most winters in Santharia are mild compared to those north of the Tandalas. Even the province of Nermeran is no exception, protected from colder northern winds by the Tandalas, the Warnaka and the Allsiscaey Mountains.

area to be mainly grassland, as rain fall is low and erratic, and small localised droughts are common, meaning few trees grow on the Elverground - especially where there are areas of greater elevation. As a result, the Elverground forms a wind tunnel between the sheltered valleys of the Rimmerins ring and the high canopy of the Zeiphyrian Forests. The effects of this wind tunneling are felt most in the midpart of the Elverground, more or less exactly due north of Elving, where the wind is being pushed through the Elverground's narrowest point. It is escaping to the north of this mid point however, into the hobbit shire of Elvenveran and the wind drops, perhaps because of greater altitude, or perhaps because the towering Rimmerins Ring to the north gives some shelter

Silvermarshes – temperate, foggy, humid

Ximax - The temperature here varies immensely with the seasons. From the blistering inferno of the summer, to the chill breezes of autumn, to the frigid, icy winters, and to the unceasing deluge that is spring; Ximax is never entirely comfortable. Still, a certain peace is always present. Though some of the guilds maintain boats for the typical spring downpours, there is a rare calmness in falling rain in Ximax. Likewise, in oppressive heat or cold, the mind almost literally flees to higher thought.   the weather in autumn is not particularly pleasant, but colourful.

But north of the Sharadon the summer heat may initiate a grass fire in the Elverground after a period of no rain, but mostly it is bearable. Even Nermeran has a mostly friendly and warm weather in summer, though citizens from New-Santhala would find it too cool. There are most times not more than a few summers in a row which are so hot, that the harvest is in danger of being lost, rainy summer follow for certain. And a very hot summer in Brendolan, Sanguia and Manthria mean often a good harvest in the northern provinces of Nermeran, Enthronia and Vardýnn. So in our modern times within a united and peaceful kingdom draughts in the south or crop failure in the north due to a rainy summer are not the cause of famine anymore.

The climate in Milkengrad, as in the whole region of the Efirhal, is temperate. A warm stream from the Dark Sea, called the Mermaid’s Trail, is considered as the source of its fine climate. The summer is hot and the winter is usually cold. The spring and fall are the ideal times of the year for visiting Milkengrad, although fall is the rain period. During spring and fall a warm breeze comes from the west, while in winter cold winds blow sporadically from the north.

The summers are very warm, and rather humid due to how close the hills are to the seas. The autumn might be regarded as one of the most beautiful seasons in the Alianian Hills. Winter is rainy season.

Ancythrian Sea – warm but often stormy and windy

Adanian Sea – Nightfog Cliffs, a temperate climate, slightly colder than the coast it lies off  During the winter weeks the cliffs are covered with a thin blanket of snow.

Aurorian Plains-  very mild climate for the area, yielding cool winters and warm summers. This has thus made for wonderful growing in the area, though the area is prone to some humidity in some places.
Spring will quickly melt the chill of winter away with a full sun and almost cloudless skies, Summers are very cool, and brief rainstorms are not uncommon. Autumn is one of the most colorful seasons. The chill will often nips children’s cheeks red and most of the fruits and vegetables will be harvested up. During the winter, most things will decrease their growing. Snow does not often fall,

winter and summer seasons tend to be equal in a year in  the Goltherlon. Usually light showers will start the autumn season, as well as some chilly eastern winds. In the winter, the storms may become violently windy, and though there may be lightning storms over the Ancythrian Sea, these storms tend to break up before reaching the eastern shore. Snow is rather rare.

Ciosa sees no snow in winter and temperature is quite moderate the whole year through compared to other Santharian regions. Though it gets hotter in the summer months and colder in the first and the last months of the year, one cannot speak of any extremes - only the fog is a characteristic

Cavthan - spring season is generally cool while the summer is quite humid. Precipitation in the winter time is usually in the form of rain, but occasionally a soft snow occurs. There is a lot of rain,

Courtford - Autumn is usually quite dry, not much wetter than the summer. It is, in fact, a fairly similar season to summer, apart from the many red leaves littering the green and the cooler, shorter evenings. Winter is cold, but snow is relatively rare at Courtford’s fairly low altitude.

Hylach Grasslands in Manthria - dry, windy season. Molten Ice sees frosts become less frequent and the winds, whilst still sharp, are no longer bitingly cold. Awakening Earth brings budding flowers amid the grass and new shoots growing.. emperature increases until it peaks in Burning Heavens. The wind - calmer at this time of year - brings little relief as it seems as hot as still air. Frost and snow in winter.

Jernais, being rather inland, is prone to slight extremes in weather. The spring is  warm Summers are rather hot, though not humid. The air tends to be very dry, Many will find shade and comfort inside their houses. Children will sometimes cool off by playing in the fountain
With autumn comes, a chill  - colourful scarves are warm
Winters shed snow - bare branches lined with fallen snow. The winters can indeed be rather cold, and most Caltharians stay inside to avoid the freeze.

Mithrals – rainy spring, hot summer Winter brings heavy snow, drifts, slides, avalanches, or sudden blizzards. A cold drizzling rain, sleet and snow accompany these rains, especially in the northern areas where they can cover the ground for days at a time. While the eastern slopes will have heavy rains, winds and high gray skies, it is the winter storms that come howling off the Adanian Sea that bring slashing rain and pellets of hail swirl through the pines on the slopes

Salóh's position at sea level on only open ground between the two great forests of the Zeiphyr and the Auturian means that it is prone to morning mists caused by condensation from both the sea and the slightly lower temperature of the air in the Auturian valley compared to the humid warmth of the covered forests. Hár'lève'thém Bay and the Valley, however, are well sheltered by the towering forests from the elements and the prevailing southerly and westerly winds that blow along this part of the coastline. The city very rarely suffers from any extreme of hot or cold, and precipitation is regular,

Shneerin / Tolonian Heath – temperate, damp (coastal)






Southern Sarvonia:

 Rahaz – sweltering summers

Strata has at times a climate comparable to Shan‘Tai, lying not much more north than the Aeruillin town. It can be hot and dry in summer and the wind from the Burning Sea brings no relief.
In normal years frost holds its grip on the lands till south of the Sharadon. The roofs of Dasai, lying much higher than Varcopas, can well be seen covered with a white cap at times, despite the closeness to the sea. The Narfost Plain sees regularly frost and snow in winter. Varcopas is the northernmost town which is frost free during winter, Bardavos, located away from the sea, can have frost as well at times, as does the central Ráhaz-Dáth, though only when the skies are clear for several days, snow falls there very rarely. The Nirmenith Mountains have new snow every winter, an important precipitation to maintain the equilibrium of growth and aridness in the deserts of the Ráhaz-Dáth to the east. Even the Aj‘nuvic Grounds, being a valley of high altitude, have frost and sometimes even snow. An everlasting snow-cap is greeting from a point even farther in the south than the Nirmenith Mountains: The top of the Norong‘Sorno is always white due to it being the highest elevation in Southern Sarvonia.

Denilou - tropical conditions and even terrific storms to the south as well as extreme hot conditions to the southwest at the desert of Hol'Dispor, but  the climate to the north is rather moderate.

Scattersand Shoals are a rare example of subtropical climate in Southern Sarvonia. Their location in the midst of the Burning Sea and close to the daily course of Injèrá give them this unique feature. The temperature on the isles is on average high, but not very extreme. For example, the desert in Aeruillin lying no further north than Zandiria features far higher and lower temperatures than the Shoals. The nearby sea provides for humid air and seasonal rainfall, giving the whole place an agreeable if warmer than normal climate.

The climate of Seraia (in Brendolan) is  ’cozy’, but the Sharadon is chilly and wet….

Varcopas is gifted with always warm days, the temperature falls never to the freezing point, though it can come near that point in winter on a few days. But it is not hot like Bardavos or Uderza or the even more southern located cities like Strata and Thalambath.

Narfost Plain - The temperatures rise in the summer to uncomfortable heights, though of course it is nothing compared to the desert to the south. In winter they fall below the freezing point and snow is possible in the late winter.

Isles of Quios - temperature is normally a comfortable level with indiscernible seasons. Many of the inhabitants claim that this is the best feature of this island grouping.



There is however one exception to the above described weather conditions - the elven forests. They seem to generate their own climate, be it the Sharadon in the south or the Thaelon in the north. In the summertime they are always cool, but not cold, moist and agreeable to live in, despite a possible heat wave and long lasting aridness in the lands around them or a season of summer storms and devastating rains. In winter it is even more obvious. When approaching an elven forest in the cold season after some time of heavy frost a marvel can be encountered. ...However, only the trees and bushes at the borders are covered with ice, as the very tops of the trees. If one could avert the eyes from these splendours and dare to break through the icy walls, a warm, green, - though at times, when it snows on top of the icy coat - slightly darker world greets the surprised wanderer. Normally it is not as dark as one would expect. The ice ensheathing the branches at the tops of the treeschannels the rays of the sun in a way, so that light falls into the forest.


Almatrar is rarely dry, being fairly close to the sea and the Heath of Cjur. Its sometimes extremely moist atmosphere is one of the things that help all the plants of the Almatrar survive. Rain in the forest itself is uncommon, and when water does fall from the sky, very little of it reaches the forest floor and is instead caught by the trees. The density of the forest creates something quite interesting: its own climate. The tightness of the trees and canopy help insulate the heat within the forest, so much so that it is almost never cold except for winter nights. This is quite a sight during snowy days, when the outside of the forest is frosted over or even covered in snow, while the inside is quite comfortably warm.

Vontron is a temperate zone. It stays comfortably warm most of the year. Its close proximity to the ocean makes it a great place to be as the sun is warm and the breezes that rise from the Bay are refreshingly cool. The air is humid but in the summer months it can get dry. During the winter the Vontron endures weather storms with strong, cold winds and warm rains, but no snow ever falls here.







Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Mina on 10 July 2008, 17:56:35
I suppose we can start suggesting changes now? 

Quote
Ximax - The temperature here varies immensely with the seasons. From the blistering inferno of the summer, to the chill breezes of autumn, to the frigid, icy winters, and to the unceasing deluge that is spring; Ximax is never entirely comfortable. Still, a certain peace is always present. Though some of the guilds maintain boats for the typical spring downpours, there is a rare calmness in falling rain in Ximax. Likewise, in oppressive heat or cold, the mind almost literally flees to higher thought.   the weather in autumn is not particularly pleasant, but colourful.
I'm not sure, but I think we might have to change this.  Ximax doesn't seem far enough from the coast for the temperature to vary this much.  The fact that it's pretty much surrounded by tall mountains on three sides might affect things a little though.   

Quote
Horth / Kruswik – moderate, winter pasturing, good for wine – cold, dry
I don't know if Horth should be grouped with the Steppe of Kruswik.  It's located at the edge of the steppe, so its climate is probably somewhat different from the rest of it. 


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 July 2008, 18:18:24
Glad you are not angry with me!  :grin:

I thought of taking the Rahaz-Dath map, Judy, the zones on the big map have not be this detailed though.

Do I have to take the same colours as on the big Santharian map? I would prefer to have a greater choice in the yellow- red area.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 July 2008, 20:29:02
Ahah - if we NEED a greater choice, then yes, feel free to make more.
 Just stay in the yellow-red range and you're fine - though if you create more zones or split/rename one of my suggestions, please mark that clearly.

In fact, I will redo ALL the colours eventually (they are just taken from the basic MS Paint palette) so that we see the blend from blue/cold to red/hot much more clearly (and elven forests in purple). 


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 July 2008, 22:07:53
Forests purple?? :speechless:  Forest=darkgreen??  (my favourite colour if I are forced to choose one)
Or do you need the green for the blue scale?

Anyway, your work, I should not be here right now.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Mannix on 10 July 2008, 22:14:00
I think Judy just used purple because it is bottom of the scale, and since elven forest are unusually, she could sort of separate them. :huh:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 10 July 2008, 22:37:02
What does it mean by elven forests are self-moderated? Does that mean elven forests in the north are that way?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 July 2008, 01:21:06
Several questions here:

a) look at the new colour scale posted in the Climate Discussion.  (We really need two threads made out of that, one for climate and one for temperature! )  I've created a 'light palette' from cold to hot for the wetter zones, and a 'dark palette' from cold to hot for the drier zones.  That gives us twice the number of climates to play with. 

Yes, purple stands out nicely from the cool-to-hot spectrum, and makes the elven forests very distinctive on the map - clear that their weather does not simply fit neatly into the coded scale.  I've assumed that they are on the 'damp' side of things, as most of the elven forests are described as 'lush' and 'heavily vegetated', so, since that takes moisture.... they get purple. 

I have also balanced that with a pale pinkish colour which I've called "Wyrdrings" - basically a placeholder for a concept for certain special or sacred areas, like the Standing Stones.  However the energies behind that play out in the end, they are already on-site, as are other strange places through Caelereth.  With all that magic floating around, why not make them the 'dry' parallel to the elven forests - give them their own tiny bubble of climate, whether savagely inimical to human life or peacefully tranquil (as the meadow inside the Stone Ring is described...)

b) self-moderated means that they have their own climate, from icy to summery, as need be.  I've just tried to find a shorthand word for how that was described in the actual entries.   I have no idea if that applies to all of them, but probably the energy is there to do so, whether the elven clan chooses to 'tap into' and use it or not...  so, purple for the elven forests to indicate that special rules apply!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 11 July 2008, 13:25:50
Before you get started on the North, maybe I should take a look at some of those place entries to see what should be updated.  You quote  "Northern Sarvonia - in high summer a boat can force its way through the frozen seas"

But the seas should not be frozen in summer!  That's in the Icelands, but not much further south than that!  THAT will have to be changed.  The Kuglimz lands and the Kaaer lands are not that cold.    Think Northern Ontario/ Northern Europe, NOT Arctic or Siberia.  I'll have to check that.  So don't rely too heavily on older entries for climate rules yet, okay? 

The Celeste Lowlands are surrounded by mountains, so they'd be protected from a lot of precipitation and cold fronts.  That'd be a  cool-temperate zone on the map, I think. 

Anyway, I'll do some research and see what needs changing ASAP.


Alysse


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 11 July 2008, 15:14:03
The Bay of Calinth has already been established as open in summer, as the Remusians have been given a navy (small though it is) and fishing vessels, which I plan to expand on in my revision.  I hope this is not going to change completely.  The iceland coast as drawn here (http://www.santharia.com/maps/continents/sarvonia_north_4.htm) shows that it is not completely permafrost in the Remusiat area (which is right about where the "a" is on "Gaths Peak"), and has a short but cool summer, where there is melting (though in some years, I'm sure not all the ice would completely disappear on the ground), but the salt sea would open up.

This is going by the current Remusian Men entry.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 July 2008, 15:25:40
I agree, these things have to be decided first. Again I would say, to not give the dates in the entries a too big weight, but to draw an overall picture. Of course the few entries have to be looked at, but they should not decide the climate of a whole region/continent. A second point, we should look, what the actual developers NEED and try to incorporate that.

It has to be decided about :

 - Which parts of the northern seas are frozen all year round (e.g. the sea north of Caaehl'heroth?) OR do we want to have a passage for at least a month or so?

- Which parts will have snow all year round? (Proposal: Those which are actually white on the map, like the Icelands coast, the Peninsula of Iol and this tiny bit in the north of Caaehl'heroth)

- Which parts will have permafrost (only the upper 1 to 3 handspans actually thaw), growing things is possible, but difficult, it grows slowly.  Azhira's people might be affected . With this we decide, that these people up there will be mainly hunters AND not very numerous.

We need to take into account:

- That the Remusians need an open sea for at least half a year. I proposed to him some volcanic activities on the sea bottom in the bay before Remusiat, so that it will not freeze entirely, but though the Remusians cannot sail to the south, they can at least get some fish. Of course, there are other possibilities to get the fish as well (through a closed iceblanket)

- I imagined always, that the sea is open between the single Wicker Islands in the summer, but frozen in winter. (Not too thick though, about a ped max)

----> warm water currents from the south for half a year, no time to post my proposal (totally unscientific!) for maritime currents.


************************************

To the climate map. I didn't know it myself, but somehow I was unhappy with the concept of the climate map, I had to look too often which colour meant which and what the temperature were for a certain climate. I would like to propose another approach - or maybe both can be done .

I would do the Rahaz-Dath map this way, it can stand alone and doesn't have to be necessarily look like the main one.

My idea is based on a temperature map, where the temperatures are shown with different colours, the dampness of a region with a overlaid pattern. One map for summer, one for winter, maybe even two for day and night, in the same picture. How this pattern will look like, I have still to decide. 



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 July 2008, 15:26:43
Altario, you beat me with posting, but I thought at your needs ;)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 16:48:06
I can sympathize with the 'too many colours' sensation, but the hues do not represent temperature OR humidity only - they represent climate zones.  Those zones, going by the many entries already on the site, cover all the various climates listed except where developers have deliberately created extremes (such as Ximax, which people have already commented will probably need to be revised). 

In the spirit of KISS, I'm going to stick with creating one map, not four.  Honestly, do we really need to have every last little detail spelled out and enforced for us?  We can probably figure out that there will be a temperature and moisture variation between day and night, and between winter and summer! (just as in the Master Goods list, we want simple averages as benchmarks, rather than a comprehensive list...) 

 All I'm trying to do here is collate what already exists so that it's in one spot, not eighty.    And I'm going to do it from the bottom up, as is my typical approach - using the facts and assumptions that have already been given, rather than imposing a rigid scheme from the top down (only works if implemented at the beginning of a project, in my experience... :) )

Just as Talia has given approximate measurements for the stral distances on the continent, so I'm going to provide approximate climate zones; it does not bind developers but allows them to make an educated guess about a specific area that they may be developing.

However, also in the spirit of KISS, I'll see if I can't find an easier way to represent the multiple zones so that they are more 'readable' at a glance.  The first version was too simplistic to effectively describe Sarvonian weather.... but we needn't swing too far in the other direction, either, and make it unnecessarily complex!

A revised Climate Zone colour chart will be coming - watch this space... 


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 17:30:04
And here it is.  Look carefully at the names, colours, and what they represent. 

If they cover all the options to date, then I can go back to the map and recolour areas as suggested.  THEN we can move on to Stage Three - changing entries if necessary to reflect common-sense decisions about climate, where an area seems to conflict with those around it.



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Mannix on 21 July 2008, 17:33:32
They're really good Judy, they give much moreinformation.  Would you have time to describe them though, as I'm not sure what some of them mean.  min and max tempoeratures for summer and winter would be nice too, not that I want to pile extra work on you. :D  Sorry if I sounded arrogant.

Mannix


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 20:22:24
No, no, not a problem, Mannix. 

What needs to happen before that, though, is actually defining a temperature scale and measurement device for Santharia.  It's all rather mixed up together in the Climate/Temperature thread at the moment, and I have to get back to the Perik scale and work that out before we can assign any averages, minimums and maximums...   Also, I do want to keep this general so that specific needs can be met for specific areas (like ice-free ports, thank you Altario and the others!)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 21 July 2008, 20:31:37
Oh!  You have an undecided bit around the Vale.  I'm so sorry Judy, I've neglected you!  Central Balmy works great with my own preconceptions - I was imagining that the Vale itself would get a lot of it's water as run off from the mountains around it.  It would be a sheltered forest of deciduous trees with really thick undergrowth in parts (probably the parts where there is water). Does that work ok?

And just one question about the new colour scheme - what do you mean by "vibrant" under "Varied Desert"?  I like the names by the way - Searings and Swelters :lol:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2008, 21:04:18
I cant actually find it, but isn't there a map of the oceanic currents? And shouldn't that (provided they work more or less like the terran versions) mean one coast of Sarvonia is significantly milder than the other?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Drúadan on 21 July 2008, 21:31:12
If that's true, and I must see this oceanic current thingy Mira, then I vote east is stormier than west. :grin: I always envisioned fairly rough winters on the east coast. Though not equal to northern storms of course. But bad weather is so much more interesting to have than bad weather. And especially around the Mithrals, heavy storms may get stuck over that coastline quite a bit. Blocked by those mountains. Of course, now I've gone and described a very narrow area. Almost like I have an ulterior motive or something...

Off to find the current map! I need a guide for such an expedition. *trusses Mira up in a big puffy wetsuit and helmat* Mhmm... you'll do just fine.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2008, 21:38:12
It all depends on which side gets the warm currents Dru ;)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Drúadan on 21 July 2008, 22:01:17
Um... er... of course I knew that...

Well, after spending 30 minutes looking I've got nothing pertinant. Because currents have been revised based on our semi-new decisions on the sun and moon, we can't expect an older map to be accurate. The playing field is MINE. Lol now I just have to find a scientific way to prove that the currents fall on the side I want them on Mira. But don't tell anyone this plan...

Actually, semi-unrelated but good to have, I found this:
http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,11904.0.html

Also, Fox's dev schedule says she wants to help with currents when the time comes.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2008, 22:02:47
I have the nagging suspicion Talia will know where to find that map Dru.. don't get to excited yet :P


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 22:14:56
Yes, let's hope so.  I've invested in five pages' worth of thread necromancy and haven't uncovered any actual maps or 'current' discussions (no pun intended).  However, I've bumped a few pertinent old threads that may refresh some ideas, and will post one of my own ancient suggestions and see how far along we've gotten already....


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Drúadan on 21 July 2008, 22:16:19
Mhmmm good point Mira I wouldn't be surprised... there's a joke involving an elephant here that I'm gonna leave out for my health. :D Only kidding Talia, of course...

I'll go watch Bard ressurect threads now, shall I?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 22:19:09
Judy quotes herself:  a way to develop climate


"a) Start with whole disc map
b) Draw horizontal climate lines across the whole thing
c) Adjust climate lines upwards and downwards around main mountain ranges and valleys
d) Sketch in main current lines in seas
e) Adjust climate lines upwards and downwards in 'bulges'  as currents dictate
f) Sketch in main wind directions (some already mentioned in entries)
g) Adjust climate lines in similar bulges to allow for winds
h) Now let everybody look at the map and see where microclimates might exist around their areas (forests, deltas, sheltered valleys, peninsulas, etc.) and make proposals to adjust the lines as necessary. 
i)  Revise map once more and add meteological symbols (snowy, rainy, dry, etc.) and colour-coding from 'hot' oranges and reds to 'cold' blues and whites to indicate the various climate regions.
j) Publish map, sit back with glass of malise-honeyed thyron cha'ah and relax in the serene confidence of a job well done! "


Hmmm.  It seems we went straight from b) to h) in making assumptions and writing our own entries.  Fortunately, we did all roughly assume b).  Obviously, c) to g) would now be very helpful to establish, particularly d), Currents.

I'm already on i), with a rough climate description taken from existing entries, plus a climate description and colours table which should help us all get on the same page, plus the Temperature submission with its own Santharian units. 

Now, if we can overlay the Currents map with the Climate map, that would be quite informative.  Look what happens if you overlay the Rivers map, for example.......




Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2008, 23:06:56
That is usually only true for truely large rivers. It does afect the chance of storms occuring and the depth of the seas, but a river ir rarely strong enough to affect the titanic forces of an oceanic current.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 July 2008, 23:14:57
Wikipedia: An ocean current is continuous, directed movement of ocean water. Ocean currents are rivers of hot or cold water within the ocean. The currents are generated from the forces acting upon the water like the planet rotation, the wind, the temperature and salinity (hence isopycnal) differences and the gravitation of the moon. The depth contours, the shoreline and other currents influence the current's direction and strength.


BUT on a disc, we may not necessarily have the same forces that affect and create terran oceanic currents.... our 'planet' doesn't rotate, we have the pressure of the Void, alsetism, and darkwinds which Terra doesn't, and our moon is in a very different situation...

Oooh - big big question.

Is there an edge somewhere in Caelereth where the water pours off all around the world???  And if not, what happens to it?  How is it 'held in' or on the disc's face?   

I cannot believe this wasn't asked earlier....


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 July 2008, 23:19:16
i think it was, and i think the answer was "no idea, but it doesnt seem to be running dry"

but the edges of the world are not realy a standing line, are they? the disc just fades into the void.. i suppose that if you sailed into it, you'd just end up on a plain sea.. of infinite size. Just like walking off the disk from aeruillin, only wetter..


edit-> Even Terry Pratchett, the absolute authority on disk worlds, does not have a solution for the draining sea problem...


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 22 July 2008, 00:06:47
Back on topic ( :P ) , I've posted new maps and resources to the first post in this thread.  Anyone who has something to contribute will want to borrow the template and the colour zone chart and try filling it in themselves, particularly for their own specific area! 

(if you hit 'fill' and it spreads over more than one area, my apologies - there may be one- or two-pixel holes in some of the lines.  Redraw the lines and fill with whatever colour you'd like to grab for your region, then post to this thread.  I'll collate it all in a master layered map anyhow, so it doesn't have to be too neat...)

 Help and comments greatly appreciated at this stage...


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Tharoc Wargrider on 22 July 2008, 00:19:20
Maybe there is another world on the flip-side of the disc, and the water just 'turns the corner' and becomes their ocean?

Wow, man. That's, like, really deep dude. *takes another toke, remembering not to inhale, just in case his political career takes-off*


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 22 July 2008, 01:10:00
Acually, we've got that bit covered, and its quite certain you cant just walk around the disk that way ;) remember, we have a colony in the void!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Drúadan on 22 July 2008, 08:28:06
*sigh*

Adding another element semi-related to this.

Do we have names for various storms and weather occurances? I.e. do we name "hail" the same, how about hurricanes, and er... big waves (tsunamis)? I need these for an entry, but I was wondering if anything had been decided on this front before I perhaps begin brainstorming substitute words. {?}


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 22 July 2008, 09:32:30
nothing that i know of, but making up your own words is always fun.. and while a word like hurricane might be usable here, tsunami for instance is certainly something you'd need to replace.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 22 July 2008, 09:58:32
Mar'Kai? Rough sytrash for Big Water?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 22 July 2008, 10:54:40
I'm just looking at the Climate map, and it seems like the climate zones are a bit... i don't have the word for it...
But it seems like the climate goes from extreme to extreme to easily. I mean we really need to define the coastal areas as being more damp, where a lot of the times they are described as dry. Also, once the mountain ranges are crossed, the climate needs to be more dry. Mtns, in fact, are an ace creator of deserts.
I tried to do it myself, but the template didn't work for me.....


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 22 July 2008, 13:33:51
Walk-through for people who want to add to/modify/help with the Climate Map:



Right-click on the template picture in the first post of this thread and choose Open in New Tabl/Window.

Right-click on the resulting picture and hit Copy.

Open the simple MS Paint.

Hit Paste and save the result (it's already a JPEG, so you can't use the FILL function). 

Use the crude AIRBRUSH (the three sizes of speckles) in the colour of your choice, preferably one of the shades from the revised Zone Colour Chart (see the first post, again).  Use the TEXT function in Paint to label your area and any details you want me to know. 

Save as a JPEG - don't worry about how crude it looks as long as it's correct - and post to this thread.  I'll take your information and revise the Master Map, which I have saved in layers.   

Nsiki, again, the climate zones are supposed to reflect what's already described.  Are the zones inadequate, or the descriptions in the entries?  Or my interpretation of what's in the entries?  You really need to specify.  I think a) the zones are broad enough to cover the climates described, and I took a pretty broad cross-section of climate entries!  b) the descriptions MIGHT need some tweaking but that would be my last resort as I believe we should respect developers' initial intent rather than impose a top-down 'master plan' c) no problem there; I'll change anything I got wrong because most people will eventually refer to the overview map rather than specific area entry and it has to be as accurate as possible.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 July 2008, 15:07:46
Nsiki, there are a lot of dry coasts in the world, the pacific coast of south America, the east coast of the Rahaz-Dath... who says a coast has to be damp? It is quite chilly and windy on North European coasts! (*chattering of teeth*)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 22 July 2008, 21:48:38
I think this map works very well. If we keep poking tiny holes in the map, it'll never get done and approved. I think it's perfect for what is described already so I vote we make it official and move on.

Do I get a second?  :thumbup:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 22 July 2008, 22:31:22
No, my mistake bard....
Is the climate map that's overlaid across the rivers map the "final"?
And note on the template- ah. I was trying to use the bucket...


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 July 2008, 00:36:11
Actually - Az and Nsiki - there ...um... isn't a 'most recent' map at this point.

The Example Climate Map in the first post of this thread is the closest thing we've got.
I'm now working on this step by step, and the first step was to make sure everyone was ok with the Revised Climate Zones themselves (the colours list in the first post).

If that covers everything we need /will need, then I'll try filling in the rest of the Example map and ask for feedback on that (is it accurate, does it need variations here and there, does your area need to be recategorized, etc.).

At that point we can get a 'Official Vote' and get it formally accepted (but thanks for the encouragement, Azhira!)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 23 July 2008, 00:50:57
Ohhh...I thought it was done. Shows how much I pay attention.  :P

Carry on...carry on. Nothing to see here... :fish:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 23 July 2008, 01:04:06
Erm, please Miss, is this right? *sticks up right hand, bum hovering over seat*

I put The Vale of Brownies and surrounding mountains as Central Balmy - even though the actual valley itself does collect the rain...so it's not that dry...but there isn't that much rainfall...erm...did I do it right?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 July 2008, 01:27:20
(looks over the tops of her glasses sternly and then examines the parchment)

Yes, very good, dear, but next time label the area you coloured.  In your neatest handwriting.


OOC:  Actually, people, all I need is a cropped little section of your map, coloured, and LABELED! We don't need to post the whole map (unless you've coloured really far-apart areas), and it does not have to be neat, or in any particular font, or anything - I just need the info, and I'll transfer what you've provided into the Master Layer map.

Thanks, Rookie!

Talia, do you have your Southern area roughed out?  You should have enough colours to work with this time.... :)



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 23 July 2008, 03:00:26
No, not enough time.. what about writing the alsetism first so that I can catch up? You keep me out of breath!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 24 July 2008, 20:11:24

Revised map for the whole Sarvonian continent posted! 

Read the update and view the new map in the first post of this thread. 

Southern hues only placeholders - Northerners are asked to look and comment, in particular.   Questions, comments, corrections are all welcome.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 24 July 2008, 20:36:35
Good!
The Ráhaz-Dáth does not fit everywhere, Varcopas e.g. is not arid, but has a lot of rain and the plain of Uderza may have not many rainfalls, but is not arid either. I don't have the time to do the Rahaz-Dath Map soon, sorry.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 24 July 2008, 20:56:04
That doesn't really matter, as any development in that area isn't likely to be done by anyone except you, and presumably you will have a consistent plan for it.  Whenever you have time - there is no rush.


I'm more concerned about the huge swathes of territory that everyone else will be working in which has little description or incomplete description, and which has been pieced together painstakingly from a lot of different sources.

Northerners, please have a look and comment!  Are your trade routes and ports free?  Can you grow the things you need to grow in your short seasons?  Does the climate look consistent across the peninsulas and the latitudes?   Warm currents taken into account?   Let me know!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 24 July 2008, 21:14:56
I can't speak for the Kuglimz or Kanapan lands, but I can speak for Caaehl'heroth, so here goes:

Climate, currents and trade routes stuff is not my thing, so forgive my nonsense ramblings here...

Aeh'Os'th'er'oc - Coorslands. Permafrost with storms. This is the habitat of the ice dragon, the frost giants and possibly some offshoot of the Osther-Oc.

Cartash - I was thinking temperate to northern wilds going up the peninsula. Starting from the Imlith mountains up through the Themed'lon, I had thought the Kaaer lived in temperate to northern wilds climate zones. I did not think they were in constant snow nor did I think they were so close to icelands.

The Heaths of Ephdenn - More northern wilds climate than northern bleaks. The heath is dry and not damp.

From the Deep Winds Portal to the Fields of Oun'tran'phu could be northern bleaks

The Fields of Oun'tran'phu, the Yllon Forest down through parts of the Themed'lon would be northern wilds and temperate.

I wish I could color a map as it would explain my thoughts better... :(


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 25 July 2008, 00:30:27
Please do!   Just copy the image below and put it into MS Paint (on every computer in the known Terran world).  Use the medium 'spray' airbrush setting and pick the appropriate colours from the list, which I've also put in the image for you...

:)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 25 July 2008, 00:48:42
Very nice! It all looks a lot smoother then the first draft, e.g., less climate zones all bordering each other. It's more consistent, and a lot more realistic now. Next up, biomes?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 02 August 2008, 07:00:04
Could we add a bit off temperate to the Rimmerins Ring region? I'm looking at some wildlife that should belong there, and I want to cool that region off a bit.... I can go ahead and do it though, if you're busy. Just wanted to know if that's acceptable.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 02 August 2008, 09:30:26
Well, I'm going to try not to make changes without a good reason.  What I mean by that is: a) 'Judy, you made a mistake colouring that area coz it says in these entries that the climate is XXX, which is your X-zone...'   or b) "It says in the YYY entry that the climate is Y, but looking at the latitude that seems really out of place with the other areas around it.  Can we change that in the entry?'

c) 'I am making a new animal and I want it to live in cold areas but ZZZ isn't cold enough so can we change the ZZZ entry AND the map?' is not a good reason.  We respect precedence; your animal needs to be changed instead (or add a variant/subspecies that tolerates different climates).   If I misunderstand what you are asking, pardon me and please clarify!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 02 August 2008, 09:41:23
Eh... kind've right, but not quite. I was thinking more that the ring would be a bit more temperate.colder, due in part to altitude. The inner area of the Hollow might also be drier/warmer, as the mountains might block rainfall.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 02 August 2008, 19:36:33
Ah, ok, sounds reasonable.  Can you give me any quotes or references to the Rim climate from the site and I'll have a look at tweaking the map?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 August 2008, 20:20:46
From the main Santharian climate entry (http://www.santharia.com/places/santharia.htm#Climate):

Quote
Most of Santharia north of the Sharadon is covered with a white blanket of snow during winter. How much snow this will be and how long it stays varies with the place and the local conditions however. So the snow in Ravenport lying at the sea will rarely cover the ground for more than a few hours each day, melting with the rising temperatures till midday, whereas on the north slopes of the Rimmerins Ring, though this mountain stock lies fairly south, can last till the month of the Changing Winds.

Hm, I fear I have not written clearly what I meant when doing this main Santharian climate description,   this map looks to me as if it would only apply in summer. When I did this climate part of the Santharian entry I did it because Art requested/wished to have a general guideline for Santharia. I made it slightly colder than maybe some contributors may have imagined it, but with Aeruillin in mind which needs at least SOME climate variation as well, I thought an European weather would suit fine (Strata=Sicily and Nermersys=Bergen, New Santhala= Middle Germany). This map looks generally too warm if meant as a middle over the whole year. As I said, summer would probably be fine. Is it possible at all for such a map to represent summer and winter?

You put such an enormous work in this project, Judy, looking up so many entries for their climate descriptions, but I don't know, if it is really possible to work with this data as a base. I wished you would have announced that you planned to do this, so that we could have discussed it beforehand. I think it makes more sense, to look at the landscape and think about which kind of weather makes sense, of course with some tweeking, where the need arises (e.g. shipvoyages possible for the Remusians at least to a small amount).

So far it seems to me that either your map or my description of the climate can be possible.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 02 August 2008, 21:56:46
I hope I won't sound as if I'm merely trying to defend my own pet project if I disagree.

Since the map is only (mostly, I hope) a reflection of the existing data from many contributors, and is actually adequately balanced against itself, the Ockhamesque solution would be simply to say that this does represent summer climate, not averages. Or even merely to adjust the temperatures which the colours represent!   And that is assuming that the overview is more accurate than the specific entries.

I'm sure you can appreciate that we want to continue respecting precedent and prior developers' work, rather than imposing an overall scheme which might well be more 'efficient' or 'accurate' but could be viewed as unfair.  Those colours currently represent, as best as possible, what people have already described for their region.  I see it as our job to come up with creative reasons why (warm currents of water or air, mountains, hot springs, etc.) rather than to 'fix' their 'mistakes', surely...

As you say, you wrote the description because Art wanted a 'general guideline'.  It is certainly easier to alter a general guideline or overview than to alter a hundred different entries, is it not? 

* I know that we need some variation on other continents, but frankly, they can have their own weather map - the vast amounts of water, distance, position on the disc, altitude - barely considered as yet! - and effects of the void mean that you do not have to extrapolate the Sarvonian continent's 'latitudes' to those other places!   

Again, look at a climate map of Terra - it's incredibly varied and patched, not a series of smooth horizontal lines.  You can get 'tropical' weather on the coast of British Columbia, rainstorms in the deserts, the frigid Himalayas next to the sultry Indian plains... and more.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 02 August 2008, 22:18:04
Thanks for the quote, Talia!
I think, maybe, to compromise here, we could simply detail the categories a little more. As in someone (and I can help here) will look at each climate colour you've created, Judy, and write a little blurb about summer and winter tempertures. Obviously the climate stays the same summer and winter-climate is the year-round weather, ess., so any "coastal balmy" area would experiance the same type of summer and winter, in theory.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 August 2008, 22:20:16
Quote
I know that we need some variation on other continents, but frankly,  they can have their own weather map

Not really, if we not want to say ISSO again - the distance of the continents form the sun is what influences the weather more than anything else.

To respecting old entries or not - how many of these entries might have been written after the climate of Santharia was already on the site? Anybody could have objected when this entry was just a submission. I think it would be far easier to adjust some  older entries which might be too controversial when they are due to an overhaul  than altering an anyway very general held entry.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 02 August 2008, 22:41:23
But see, we don't really have to alter old entries. And as far as the other continents go, sure distance from the sun, etc, etc, but look at the UK and Canada - in the part of Canada that lies roughly equal to the UK latitudaly, there are bitter, frost-bitten winters, with sometimes a ped or more of snow! However, look at the UK - it rarely snows there, and never to the extent it does in Canada. Rather, the warm ocean currents keep the climate warm.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 03 August 2008, 19:20:59
Quote
Not really, if we not want to say ISSO again - the distance of the continents form the sun is what influences the weather more than anything else.

Nsiki is quite right there.. its a common misconception, but in (terran) reality, it only determines how much solar heat is generated (or, more scientifically accurate, transformed from radiant heat to conductive heat) on that particular bit of planet. Air and water currents, as well as the amount of vegetation and the soil type then actually determine the temperatures, as those factors will disperse or otherwise move that heat around 'piling it up' in some places, while removing relatively much in others.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 04 August 2008, 02:39:44
You compare apples with pears.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 04 August 2008, 03:18:20
Well, i suppose you CAN change the way a climate comes into being, but the amount of work that would be, just to create something similar to what we already have on earth.......


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 04 August 2008, 04:36:31
Apples and pears? No ma'am, circles and globes. One just has a bit more depth to it. No need for us to craft a treatise on a brand new climate scheme- just take what we have, and flatten it out a bit, twist it.... and you have Santharian Climate! Why make things difficult to work when we already have a system that just needs tweaking?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 25 August 2008, 05:16:51
One thing that would be useful for my upcoming masterwork... How hot is balmy? Ess., could we get approximate temperture equivilents for the categories? Or Terran equivs?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 11 September 2008, 22:37:52
I want to BUMP this back up and maybe start to finalize it? Please? Please?

I think we left off with Northern Sarvonia?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 September 2008, 23:48:26
Az, have I (breaks into song) "told you lately that I love you?"



Ess pwease!  Come lookie and comment and get this back up and trotting!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 12 September 2008, 00:01:57
Judy,

You had made a colored climate map of the North but I can't find it...perhaps create a new thread for it for discussion?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 September 2008, 00:09:33
Dratness and confustication.  Really? 

It might be in the OTHER thread entitled Temperature, eh?  If not, I'll find it in the morning. Gotta go bed now - it's just past midnight!

Hugs,
Judith


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 19 December 2008, 23:37:25
BUMPS this for Wren...

and reminds herself to GET BACK to this entry and get some things settled.  ALso to bump the Temperature entry....


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 07 October 2009, 22:31:45
*Digs and digs and pulls this thread from deep within the archives. Tosses away the shovel and collapses with a drink*

I won't let this one die! What needs done here to approve this?  :whip:

I am happy with the North maps.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 07 October 2009, 22:44:25
(gives Az a + for her tremendous work of archaology slash necromancy)

(looks guiltily around and realizes that she has more than unfinished PICTURES on her desk...)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 October 2009, 22:57:15
The problems we had with this one are not solved, I fear. (Letting them rest won't have helped in this case.) I know I wanted to do a map (two, for summer and winter, showing temperature and annual rainfall in the same map) for the Rahaz-Dath, but I need to finish some other things first.

And this is not the only project started, let's not forget our magnetism or the currents of Caelereth.

Your needed not to have used a shovel, Azhira, a little magic would have been enough, sorry  :buck:
 *makes some movements with her hands*: Look here (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12768.0.html)



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 09 October 2009, 08:19:39
I quote my post from July 2008 (yes, this is that old):

"Well, I took what I could from your general climate entry, but I also tried to respect the work of so many other developers both before and after that submission. I don't think that they did merely choose climate arbitrarily, but at the very least looked at the map - many people mentioned the moderating influence of the water/coast, just as you pointed out, for example, or gave specific geographic reasons for why their area was a certain way.   

Again, this is a compilation, subject to change, and I'm not about to defend it simply because of the work I put in to collect the information.  I am just saying that instead, that information has to be judged one piece at a time to see how it fits together.  Like this:


STAGE ONE:   See if any classifications are wrong - then I can change the colour of those areas on the map  - just as you've pointed out above:  "These Central coastal regions - they aren't really damp areas, especially in the north (Carmalad) aren't they? Not hotter than 22 degrees in summer?The area between the two Fores (dotted though) doesn't look for me like Central Balmy with mild winters and hot summers (22?), but susceptible to cold freezing winds from the north and very hot summers."

What does it look like to you?  What colour/zone class would you suggest instead?  Do we need to create two or three more zone divisions to cover some areas?

 When any classification errors have been changed, then we have a Draft Two map.


STAGE TWO:   Look at the Draft Two map and find inconsistencies or things that should be changed in the ENTRIES from which they were drawn (I do think that adding a word or two or deleting a word or two shouldn't be a big change for most people, especially if we can check with them first before applying any 'master' climate plan.).   

Change the inconsistencies, then change the map to reflect that.  Draft Three!


STAGE THREE:   Every developer of a specific area (such as the Rahaz-Dath, yes, that would be greatly appreciated!  If you just cut-and-paste the map legend with the colours, you can even work directly on the map that way and it's already codes for you.) gets a chance to put in their own variations, abberancies, volcanic action, exceptions, and so on.  Who wants five boring bands of colour evenly across the disc?  :P

Oh, and I have some, but not all, of the climate references collated from last night, so, yes, I'll post them. Good idea -that will save some work if anyone wants to help you check the Stage One facts, right?"


To repeat - this is not an invention but a summary of precedent - what thirty other developers have claimed for their region.  I also suggest that we get this finalized for the immense help it would be in developing regions in more detail, or even when creating a new plant.  Areas that we have no information about or that need to be waited upon for development can be shaded in an indeterminate grey and marked as such.   I will go through the six pages of comments with a fine-tooth comb and get the general feel, make sure all critiques and additions have been incorporated, and then revive new comments again.  If the overall consensus is that this is ready, it does not need to languish any further.

And yes, we should go excavate the Temperature thread and make sure it's ready to go up officially....



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 October 2009, 13:52:56
Which I tried to smooth out with my climate entry for Santharia. :buck:



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 09 October 2009, 14:03:51
I was going to take a closer look at the NE.  Talia, do you have anything that needs to change there, or needs to stay there?


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 October 2009, 14:15:53
I have a look there later, Alt.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 09 October 2009, 15:58:56
Judith, I know my artwork leaves much to be desired, but I tweaked the NE portion of the map.  I took from the original you have posted at the beginning of the thread and simply made it a bit more detailed.  If this passes scrutiny, I'm happy with it.  I kept it located to my area of development.  Talia might have something to add (or subtract) from this.  I hope this helps. :D

Weather (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/Grodyn/Weather.jpg)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 09 October 2009, 16:18:41
Alt, you said previously that your ability of artwork was close to mine ...

I must respectfully disagree with you ... my artwork is far far worse than yours :D


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 October 2009, 18:13:29
Alt, don't attach such big pics please! Either use the function which comes with the board of do them smaller :)


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 October 2009, 18:35:56
I still haven't got the time to look at it in depth. I see the general problem, that there is no distinction between winter and summer. I know, one can find such maps in the net, Wikipedia has them,but i don't find them very useful.

Let's take the Wastes of Despair e.g. or the Heath of Wilderon.

The Heath is 'cool, mild, dry to wet', if I interpret the colour right. But I don't think, that this is true at all. This is a continental climate, with (a lot of) snow in winter, so cold to very cold, eventually dry at times! In summer it might be quite warm up to 30 degrees Celsius.

The wastes will have their extra climate, a pattern of hot and cold spots, depending on the volcanic activity (in form of warm springs which freeze over in winter. )
The icelands are ok, but the surrounding area, the sea freezes entirely (90%) for at least half a year, but is open the rest of the year, how would you call this?

I have not enough time to look at all this in the moment.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 09 October 2009, 19:14:47
I would interpret "wet" not just as rain, but snow and hail too - any type of precipitation.  So in areas you'd get a lot of rain in summer, you'd get a lot of snow in winter too, but where it's dry and hot in summer, it's likely to be snowless and cold in winter.  These are generalisations, there's no way you can get away from this, and there might be random weather that can't go on the map.  But at least this gives us a base to work from - if your place has something that goes against it then you'll know to mention it - "although this area is usually warm and dry, XXX valley seems to get YYY weather and this makes it warmer and wetter in ZZZ season".  A completely self-moderated part like the elven forests can be marked, but slight variations from the general picture are going to be difficult and might be better in place entries?  If you're making an animal then you're going to read those anyway, aren't you?

Am I right in thinking that the areas that mention permafrost are the ones where the sea freezes for part of the year?  Maybe we could mention this in the key?  It seems like it'd be useful stuff to know.

Apologies if I've missed something already said!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 09 October 2009, 21:27:26
Maybe a color to indicate magically created climates like the Mists of Osthemangar? That region is so unpredictable, that there is no real classification for it. And, the area is quite wide, touching the Cartashian Woods and the Plains and the mountains north.

I wish I could make a map to indicate this... :cry:


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 09 October 2009, 22:15:34
Isn't that already there - the pink bit classfied as "Weyrdrings: self-moderated, dry" ?  There's a pink shape around the big tower thing that I've forgotten the name of.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 09 October 2009, 22:22:36
I agree that many places will have pretty wide swings in extremes between summer and winter.  Not sure if this is said anywhere in the thread, but I assumed this was kind of a conglomerate of both seasons; simply an average for the year.

I can go more in depth and do both a summer and winter if you like.  It would take a bit more time and thought and input from the Northern Devs, I just wanted to put forth my opinions before this was accepted as canon and made it harder to adjust later.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 October 2009, 04:02:13
Please, lets not hurry this.

*takes Azhira and drags her to the South to develop there a bit, until she is warmed up again.*

We won't let this die, we need it, in that way or another.

What I want to mention first is, that I appreciate very much the work Judy invested here, the hours spent, though I might sound different sometimes  :evil:

I thought about it a bit more and had some additional ideas, I have some ideas in general and some wishes for the northeast, but I need the time to write them down.

Maybe we should make two or three entries out of it, divide Southern Sarvonia and Northern Sarvonia, maybe separate the Rahaz-Dath as well. So we might come quicker to an end.

My general concern is, that we should see the whole on a bigger scale. The maritime currents would play part as well, or how the air circulates. As soon as there is a consense, we can think about how the climate is, how we wish it to be, where to put volcanic activity to warm the north up etc. 

Please give me a week to get this all written down. I will put my Three Races Empire aside for so long. This entry has rested now for some time a week or two more won't hurt.

That does not mean, that you can think about ow you NEED the temperature there and where we have to tweak.

Weekend will be busy and I rediscovered my tablet, so please be patient with me.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 10 October 2009, 04:13:06
A dumb idea, possibly, but an idea anyway.

In order to ensure you are all working to a common goal with this ... climates, temperature patterns, weather patterns, maritime currents etc into something akin to a Masterplan so that people know what needs to be done/what has already been done. I know that the standard Masterplan headings won't work with this, but can't the headings be modified for something like this?

Then under the appropriate ones, have the provinces/continents/islands/whatever is needed.

Anyway, that's the idea I had on it. :D


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 October 2009, 09:20:23
I see two different thought patterns colliding yet again on this issue.

I'm going to say this one more time:  I'm not making any decisions here (except about colour) and I'm not imposing any kind of a 'master' scheme for climate.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I'm also not in any hurry to 'get this finished'  - it was intended for everyone else's benefit to create an overview.

What I have done with this project is to compile the EXISTING information from hundreds of entries to give us a look at what Sarvonian climate looks like according to those original authors' intent for those areas, as best I could.   If there are inconsistencies that don't seem to match up with a Terran perception of what the climate should be like, that is not to be wondered at.

Basically, is it everyone's will that we SHOULD impose an overall climate scheme and change or contradict all those entries?

I'm not speaking about areas where work is in progress such as the North - I appreciate what the Northern Developers are doing right now to make sure their area is well-considered and consistent. Nor do I include areas where the developer-in-charge specifically states that the area will be developed further and that climate will be considered at a later date.   Unfortunately that was not done for every Places entry at the time of its writing... but I do see that as a very small detail. 

Once again I reiterate that this is a fantasy universe, heated and cooled by systems that do not and cannot exist in Terran nature.   Magma from volcanoes in a crustless, plateless disc - tides and currents of hot and cold water from Ava-knows-where - a Void-crusted edge which brings its own peculiar influences - elven magic in seasonless patches of elven woods - a sun which moves unlike any gasball in our universe.... why should it be so vitally important to make it into a mundane, matching system which would leave future developers with very little choice? 

 On the whole there is a pattern of movement from hot south to temperate middle to cold north, and that is good enough for me.     If it's not good enough for everyone else, we need to say so and then consider what needs to be done about it, en masse.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 October 2009, 20:00:00
Judy, don‘t force people to side with you or me, that is not necessary.

Quote
Basically, is it everyone's will that we SHOULD impose an overall climate scheme and change or contradict all those entries?

As if this is the case!

A climate scheme does not necessarily contradict all what we have on the site, even not for Santharia with so many finished entries. And why is that now a problem, when it was none when I wrote the Santharian climate? I wrote this down, not because I was particularly interested in it, but because there were many voices who asked for this. So I did it, to help all. That was in March 2006. And it surely did take me five hours straight as well to finish it, probably more. I don‘t know, how many entries were written afterwards. Where were you, that you have not opposed it then? Why did you not (re-)search for it before you started your compilation and think about, that there might arise troubles?

I see no big problem anyway. Separate the entry in Northern Santharia and Southern, then the Southern Part (the pic) can be added to my Santharian climate, with some explanations. If there are some contradictions, we have many on the site.  I only ask to just add the Raház-Dáth with an extra colour saying „various desert conditions“ or something like that. I can do that weathermap with me coming revision of that area. My climate entry is anyway more general  and doesn‘t necessarily have to cover all small areas with a different climate. And what is so wrong about slightly changing the one or other old entry if it is really needed, in the context of a revision maybe?

 
If you separate the entries, then we have time enough to do Northern Sarvonia and try to invent something which is not just a patchwork, but makes sense, in an unscientific way of course.
We have not much decided for Northern Sarvonia anyway, but we can do it soon, but not today.
If your colour scheme can be applied fully in the North, I don‘t know yet. There might be other possibilities where a colour tells more than just „cool and dry“.

Once we have this done, it can be added on a review of the entry of the North, which seems to be due anyway sometimes, with so much new development up there.

I have to go now, shopping and what else.

More next week.



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 October 2009, 20:21:36
Fine, I've had it with this.   I do not have enough time for it as it is.

 I was also only trying to help, based on what people were asking for, and it took a lot longer than five hours to pull together.  Iif all I'm going to get is critique and opposition and accusations of 'sides'  (I said 'points of view' - it's fairly obvious by now that I don't believe in imposing blanket rules on top of existing work, and that you do because of an objection to 'patchwork') , I will not be involved in it any longer.   I've pointed this out many, many times that this is meant to be a compilation of everyone's work - including your climate entry.  If it hasn't been integrated into this by now, I don't know why - perhaps because you were too busy with other things to assist in fitting it in?


I have no particular vested interest in or claim on Climatology.  It appears you do, so if you prefer to hold up development across the board until you can be directly involved, then there's not much anyone, including myself, can really do.   

Judith out.



Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 October 2009, 22:36:44
*back from shopping and 'out of house' work*

No Judy, don't back out now. Put that stuff together for Southern Santharia, there is nobody here who objects this. Of course you wanted to help, as did I, and I did that on request as well and letting it look now bad with naming it "imposing blanket rules on top of existing work" is not fair. And who was working how long on what - that is a question which nobody can answer, I just wanted to point pout, that others are putting in here as much time as you do.

What did you want me to do, how should I have been helping "integrating it" (my climate entry)? It was/is fully accessible to anybody. If you are talking of the Raház-Dath: I do not know, how to use your tools , so that they express all what I want to have expressed. And, I'm not willing to let me dictate from others what I will do at which time anymore. This way many of my submissions never get on the site - because I allow myself to be distracted to much.

I have an interest in the climate of  regions I develop or want to in a future time,  of course. I did the climate of Santharia, because it was asked for. Otherwise I have no further interest either on a smaller scale. Yes, I am interested in a teamwork about climate in a bigger style, just to make development easier (as was the reason I wrote the one for Santharia), but it has not to be me who writes this down.

You started this map, others got involved, so please finish it where possible when you have the time.

*back to family and household *


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 28 April 2010, 10:25:34
Judy's map is very helpful for development, especially for places entries. I would like to propose to the mods that the map be integrated somewhere or at the least that this thread be stickied. I know there are many ideas for more detail here and there, but overall, the maps as they are still a valuable resource.

I gather from the discussions that the maps are not formalized and are not set in stone, but stickying this only makes it easier to find and reference.


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 28 April 2010, 10:42:26
Agreed.  I often drop in here to look at them. :D


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 April 2010, 01:34:17
A link to this topic has now been added to the left side menu, third entry under "Dev Maps"!


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 April 2010, 01:48:34
 :thumbup:

Even better. :D


Title: Re: First Draft Climate Map of Central Sarvonia
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 29 April 2010, 02:32:28
 :D

Thanks Arti! I never thought to link it there.  :thumbup: