Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Lionhorse on 27 January 2009, 05:42:57



Title: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 27 January 2009, 05:42:57
I recently had an idea, to create some certain alchemical tools, with which all alchemists could operate to perform their experiments in alchemy. And so... look what I have in my mind.

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Basic Alchemical Tools

Since the alchemy has ever discovered, to all alchemists it is popular to have their own alchemical workshops or workrooms, in which they can experiment with the substances, which can be found in the World of Caelereth, by using special tools and vessels. Through generations, these tools and vessels were simply called "Tools of an Alchemist" and only alchemists understand how to work with them and know how to create them. As the most of these tools are made out of a glass, the main methods of creating them are with the help of glassblowing, tinkering and blacksmithing crafts, therefore true alchemists need not only the knowledge on the properties of the substances, but also the appropriate knowledge in, already mentioned, crafts.

In the alchemical workshops, most commonly use special tools and vessels, which are made out of a glass and sometimes even out of a metal. These most important tools and vessels are vials, flasks, boiling glasses, funnels, measuring vessels - measunderi, meabuls, medicine glasses, and the like.

Types of Basic Alchemical Tools:

Overview of glass vessels: In this type fall all those vessels that are made out of a glass. There are vessels that are used to measure a certain amount of liquid. There are vessels, which are used to heat aggressive and corrosive tempered substances, therefore they are very resistant to the high temperatures, as well as to the sudden changes in amount of the substances, and there are those vessels, which main advantage is elevated durability. Some of these vessels have lowered durability against heat, therefore they can easily rupture if heated, and that is a thing that should not be done with some of the vessels of this type.

  • Boiling glass (Gnomish: Firnel simars): The boiling glasses are cylindrically shaped vessels, which can be long and small in length. The length of the long boiling glasses must be twice as big as their diameter. These glasses can be with a snout or without it, with measuring lines drawn on their sides or without them. The capacity of these glasses can be various: long glasses can have a maximum capacity of two, four, six, ten, sixteen, twenty-four, forty, eighty, one hundred and twelve sips, small glasses - 1/5, 2/5, one and up to two hundred sips. It is restricted to heat boiling glasses on an open fire. They can be heated only on closed heating surfaces, like on a home furnace, and in various kinds of baths. (click here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/boilingglass.jpg) and here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/boilingglasswmeasuringlines.jpg)to see the pictures)
  • Flask (Gnomish: Flog): The flasks are conical shaped vessels with a flat bottom and a narrow neck. They are made out of a glass that has a high resistance against the aggressive natured substances and high temperatures. The capacity of these flasks is various - starting with 2/5 of a sip and up to two hundred sips. In appearance, they differ by the length of a neck and by their diameter. These flasks use for making the solutions or during the researching euxperi. You should remember that these flasks can be heated only on the closed heating surfaces. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/flask.jpg)
  • Funnel, vi, fillion (Gnomish: Gnufilim): The glass funnels, that are also called vi or fillion, in the workshop of an alchemist can be used for various goals - filtration, separation of solutions, for pattering solid or powdered substances into the other vessels, or for pouring liquids into the other vessels etc. Therefore, they can vary in appearance. A funnel is a conical shaped vessel that has a tube, that is molten to its top, and this tube has a delicate truncated end. The size of a funnel is determined by its diameter. Usually alchemists use only eight different sized funnels, which diameters are: 1.) three nailsbreadths and two grains, 2.) five nailsbreadths and two grains, 3.) six nailsbreadths and four grains, 4.) one palmspan, 5.) one palmspan, four nailsbreadths and four grains, 6.) two palmspans, 7.) two palmspans, four nailsbreadths and four grains, and 8.) two palmspans, nine nailsbreadths and four grains. (click here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/common_funnel.jpg) and here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/funnel_for_powdered_solid_substance.jpg)to see the pictures)
  • Meabul (Gnomish: Ertubelgic): The meabul is a round, flat-bottomed flask with a narrow and a long neck. On its side is drawn a measuring line that is in the middle of the neck, and shows a certain capacity. If measunder can measure various capacities at a time, then meabul is created to measure only one certain capacity at a time. There are meabuls of various capacities - one, two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, twenty, forty, and rarely eighty sips. Meabuls are used to make the solutions with a precise concentration. To make a precisely concentrated solution, first, you have to place the meabul on the horizontal surface. Then, by using a funnel, 1/2 or 2/3 of a meabul fill with the solvent and add powdered substance or liquid that has to be dissolved in already poured solvent. After that, gargle the vessel to mix up the reagents. When you see that all powdered substance has dissolved, add the rest of the solvent until its surface almost reaches the line and gargle the vessel again. Add the last drops of the solvent intently until the surface of the solution reaches the line. It is highly restricted to warm up the meabuls, because the warmth can make them wider in diameter, therefore badly affecting the measuring results. There were situations, when warming up a meabul results in its rupturing. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/meabul.jpg)
  • Measunder; meacyl (Gnomish: Ertumefit; ertumaril): The measunder, or differently called meacyl, is a cylindrically shaped vessel, which has a several measuring lines that are drawn on the side of the cylinder and shows a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/25 of a sip. There are measunderi of various maximal capacities - 1/5, 2/5, one, two, four, ten, twenty, forty, and eighty sips. To correctly measure a certain amount of liquid, you must pour the liquid into the measunder until its surface reaches the line you need. Measunderi can also be various in some technical details. Some of them can be with a spout and some - without it. They can be wide or thin in diameter, short or long in length. The bottom of measunder also is very important. It has to be smooth to ensure that measunder will stand on the table still and not slanted to the one or another side, otherwise there is a possibility to measure an incorrect amount of liquid, that will affect lasting euxperi and as a result there will be untrue, or sometimes even unwanted, outcomes. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/measunder.jpg)
  • Medicine glass (Gnomish: Rum simars): The medicine glass is a conical or cylindrically shaped vessel, that has a measuring lines on its side, which are showing a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/5 of a sip. As well as measunderi and meabuls, medicine glasses can also vary in capacity, but the alchemists mostly use those medicine glasses that have the maximum capacities of two, four, ten, twenty, and forty sips. If measunderi and meabuls are used for measuring precise amount of the liquid, then medicine glasses are used only for measuring an approximate amount of liquid. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/medicineglass.jpg)
  • Rounded bottom flask (Gnomish: Soldelmicran flog): The rounded bottom flasks have a neck of various length and diameter, and their bottoms are totally rounded, therefore such flasks can not be placed on the horizontal surface in vertical position, but can be fastened to a fastening rod. The capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have long necks, can vary from four to one hundred and twelve sips, but the capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have short necks, can vary between two to forty sips. These flasks are used for heating liquids during the long time period on the open fire. There are also the rounded bottom flasks with more than one neck. Such flasks are used in order to deliver liquids or gases away or to the appropriate vessel of an alchemical apparatus. There can be up to four-necked round bottom flasks. (click here (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/rbflask.jpg), here (http://81.198.169.183/webkonkurss/IecavasvsHivricsArkadijs12a/iecavasvsk/kim/tr_ier/image/kolb_apaldiv.gif), here (http://81.198.169.183/webkonkurss/IecavasvsHivricsArkadijs12a/iecavasvsk/kim/tr_ier/image/kolb_apaltrij.gif) and here (http://81.198.169.183/webkonkurss/IecavasvsHivricsArkadijs12a/iecavasvsk/kim/tr_ier/image/kolb_apalcetr.gif) to see the picture)
  • Table flask (Gnomish: Duberflog): The table flasks are rounded, flat-bottomed vessels. The flat-bottom insures flask's stability on the horizontal surface. The table flasks can have various lengths of a neck and capacities - starting with one and up to two hundred sips. The usage and resistance of these flasks are the same as a simple flasks. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/tableflask.jpg)
  • Vial (Gnomish: Mun): The vials are a small, cylindrically shaped glacial tubes, with closed lower ends. Their length can vary from three nailsbreadths, four grains up to two palmspans, six nailsbreadths, four grains, but diameter can vary between two nailsbreadths and two nailsbreadths, four grains. The vials are used only for working with a small amounts of the substances, therefore the vials should be filled no more than 1/4 to 1/8 of their total capacity. It is restricted to fill the vial full. You should begin to heat a vial on the open fire, in direction from a top to its bottom, otherwise, heating a vial in an opposite direction the substance, that is inside the vial, will slop out of it all over the place, and if it is very explosive or corrosive substance, the outcome can be very unpleasant. During the euxperi, the vial should be held in the hand, but when heated - it should be fastened to a fastening rod, which is made out of an iron, or it should be placed into the vial claw. The vials are placed and held in vial stands (clean vials should be placed with opened end downward, but during euxperi - with opened end upward). After the euxperi, the vials should be washed very carefully. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/vial.jpg)

Overview of porcelain vessels: Some porcelain vessels are durable and resistant enough to the influence of the aggressive natured substances. That is why they are generally used only if there is a need for strength Ė grinding and mixing the solid substances, or differently called Earth substances - Yrth Peryodiqa, into the powder, and there are porcelain vessels that are even much more resistant and durable. Therefore, some of them are used for heating of the substances on the open fire. However, the porcelain vessels have their own disadvantages - they are heavy, expensive, and not translucent.

  • Crucible (Gnomish: Crubibel): The crucibles are a conical shaped porcelain vessels with a flat bottom. The crucibles are very much like the tiny bowls, except that the crucibles are much more resistant to the heat and sudden changes of the temperature than the tiny bowls, therefore you can put the crucibles into the furnace without a fear that they may rupture. If a tiny bowl you use to heat or evaporate the substance, then a crucible you can use only to melt a solid substances, like metals and the like. The crucibles can be made out of a quartz and a black iron, but usually alchemists use those crucibles that are made out of a porcelain. As well as the tiny bowls, hot crucibles also are restricted to hold and take with bare hands. When you want to heat something inside a crucible, at first, you should fasten it into the crucible claw and only then, you can start heating it by taking the handle of the claw, in which is fastened the crucible. Doing so, you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/crucible.jpg)
  • Mortar (Gnomish: Gno tiglim) and Pestle (Gnomish: Tiglim kig): The mortars are a massive half-spherical shaped vessels that are made out of a porcelain, have a thick sides, and are used for grinding a solid substances. To make the usage of a mortar comfortable enough, each of them needs a pestle that is in an appropriate length and size. The outer surface of a mortar, excluding its flat bottom, and a handle of a pestle is covered by a glaze, but mortar's inner surface and the head of a pestle is mated and porous. Such construction ensures the grinding of a solid substance into a powder. A glaze does not cover the mortarís flat bottom only to make it still, if put on the horizontal surface. The mortars can be made out of a various materials - grey iron, black iron, copper and glass, but most commonly are used those mortars that are made out of a porcelain. They can even be made in various diameters and sizes. Working with mortar, you must remember to fill it no more than 1/3 of its capacity to ensure easier work with it during the euxperi. It is restricted to heat mortars, because on warm surfaces or above an open fire, mortars may often rupture. The mortars are also restricted to place in water baths, because their flat bottoms soak in a very large amount of water and mortars become very heavy. The only way that you can heat the substance, that is inside of a mortar, is by the warmth of the sun or by placing the mortar near some kind warm source, like the home furnace. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/mortar_and_pestle.jpg)
  • Tiny bowl (Gnomish: Ifin cegil): The tiny bowls are a tiny porcelain vessels with a rounded bottom. A glaze covers the bowlís inner surface, but the cover on the outer surface of the bowl can vary. The sizes of these bowls are defined by their diameters, which can vary between two nailsbreadths, four grains and one fore, one palmspan, one nailsbreadth, three grains. Overall, there are eight sizes of these bowls and their capacity can be various - starting from one sip to one hundred and eighty four sips. The tiny bowls can be heated on the open fire, in the furnaces and in the water baths. They generally are used for heating the substances and for their evaporation. It is restricted to take and hold the hot tiny bowls with bare hands. When you want to heat something in it, at first, you should fasten it into the bowl claw and only then, you can start heating by taking the handle of a claw, in which is fastened a bowl. Doing so, you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/porcelain_bowl.jpg)

The other tools of an alchemist:

  • Alcohol lamp; spirit lamp (Gnomish: Alcohols fir kig): The alcohol lamps, or differently called - spirit-lamps, are used for producing flame for boiling and warming the substances. Of course, the same effect can be achieved by warming the vessel in or upon the furnace. The alcohol lamp is a jar that is made out of a fire resistant glass. The lamp is 7 nailsbreath in diameter and 4 nailsbreath high. The top opened end of the jar has a narrow neck, that is approximately 1 1/2 nailsbreath in diameter and 1 nailsbreath high, and it is closed by a small metallic lid that has a hole in its center, through which is coming out a thick wick. The wick should be in contact with an alcohol, that is inside the jar. In order to make the wick burn, you should wait approximately one day to let the wick absorb the alcohol, that is inside the jar, and when you'll try to light the wick up, it will produce a flame, because of absorbed alcohol, that ignites once being in a contact with a fire. The alcohol lamp has a small addition that is made out of a glass, but can also be made out of a metal. This addition looks like a simple glass that should be placed over the lamp in bottom-up position after the work is done, in order to extinguish flame of the lamp. There are no other flame extinguishing methods, because this is considered to be the most safest way how to extinguish the flames of the alcohol lamp.
  • Claws for the tiny bowls and crucibles (Gnomish: for tiny bowls - Ifinglirek, for crucibles - Cruglirek): These claws look like a simple fastening rod's claws. They have the same usage and are made out of the same material as a simple fastening rod's claw, but the difference is in size and they have no screw. For tiny bowls usually use the claws that are no more than two palmspans, one nailsbreadth, four grains in length. For crucibles are used two different sized claws - one of them is one ped in length, but the other - one fore, one palmspan, six nailsbreadths, three grains in length. The longer crucible claw is used, if you need to put them out or into the furnace, but the shorter crucible claw is used, if you need to heat the crucible on the open fire.
  • Glass rod (Gnomish: Simarsfilec) and metallic spoon (Gnomish: metallic spoon): The small glass rods and metallic spoons are used for variety of tasks. The small glass rods, which can be one palmspan in length, are used for mixing liquids, but the small metallic spoons, which also can reach only one palmspan in length, are used for heating the substances over the open flame or for taking some solid or powdered substances, because substances are restricted to take with bare hands. In reference to this, among the alchemists there is a saying: "You will never know how substance will show itself, when touched with bare hands."
  • Fastening rod (Gnomish: Umeg fer) and it's details: In alchemical workshop often are used other, much complicated devices and for their creation are used fastening rods, fastening rod's claws (Gnomish: Ferglirec), or also called - fastening rod's branches (Gnomish: Ferfilec), and metallic rings (Gnomish: Steeloitil). With the help of these tools, it is possible to fasten the vials, flasks and funnels to the fastening rod. If you wish to make some kind device, which would consist of various vessels, you should use glacial tubes (Gnomish: Simarli mef (Simarli - "glacial", tube - "mef"), plural form: Simarli mefi) with the corks (Gnomish: Kret - "cork", plural: Kreti), to close the vessels and make the connections between them. It is important to remember that before placing corks inside the tubes, you should moisten them from the outside, to make them better get into the opened ends of the tubes. The tubes you should hold near the cork, otherwise there is a possibility to break them, and have your hands cut by broken glass. The fastening rods are made only out of a metal - black or grey iron, and look like a simple rods, which are one ped high and one nailsbreadth thick, and one of their ends is molten to a board, which is two palmspans in length, two palmspans wide, and several nailsbreadth thick. The board also is made out of a metal. The fastening rod's claws and metallic rings also are made out of the same metal as the fastening rod. The fastening rod's claw is a tool that looks like a claw, in which you can fasten a vial, flask, or any other tool, and then, with a help of a small screw, which is on the claw, you can fasten it to the fastening rod. The metallic ring looks like a rod on whose end is a ring. Usually these rings are wide enough to make the round bottomed flasks stand still in these rings and not fall through them. The metallic rings also have a screw, which helps to fasten them to the fastening rod.
  • Vial claw; vial branch (Gnomish: Munglirec; munfilec): The vial claw looks exactly like a claw for tiny bowl and have the same usage. The alchemists named them differently only to ensure the order in the workshop - each tool should be in the correct place and should be used by an alchemist as he or she wishes.
  • Vial stand (Gnomish: Munfer): The vial stand usually is made out of a wood. It looks like a small, empty, wooden box, whose one side has many holes that are wide enough to put the vials through them and make them to hold still in the stand. The vial stands are used in situations when you need to put a vial somewhere aside, if it contains some kind substance, that will be useful in euxperi later and should not be sloped all over the place.

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Alright... this is want I had on my mind... I know, I know... this information should be reorganised and equalized for the world of Santharia, that because I HOPE that in here is someone who could help me with that. Hope you'll enjoy this!!! :grin: :grin: :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic alchemical tools
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 27 January 2009, 06:07:35
A glacial rod? Does it cast Frost Ray 5/day?

(i think that should be a glass rod)

I'm not sure we have fire-resistant glass, and at any rate, it all sounds a bit to modern, i think.


Title: Re: Basic alchemical tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 27 January 2009, 06:30:26
Well... yes it sounds like too modern, but that's why I need someone who can help me forming this idea in the way Santharia could accept it. :grin:

About glacial rod... well... it also can be called like glacial bar, billet or gad. Glacial rod isn't a magical thing, Tehuriden. :grin:

Well... if you have no fire resistant glass, then what are we waiting for?  :grin: Just let's begin developing time!!! :grin: :grin:


Title: Re: Basic alchemical tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 January 2009, 09:10:23
Yes, it's a very good idea, and I say that as the person who should've come up with it.... (wry smile)

I'd be pleased to help you rewrite this in more Santharian terms, Lionhorse.   We need more medieval names - you haven't considered the alembics, the crucibles, the retorts, and so on, while 'test-tubes' are far too modern.  But glass IS fire-resistant, up to 90 periks, which is more than enough for most alchemical purposes!  See the list:

alcohol boils 8
water boils 10
cooking oil ignites 30 to 35
alcohol burns 36
Candle flame  80 to 140
glass turns liquid 90 to 95


Anyhow,  the concept is excellent, and deserves to go up linked to the Alchemy entry and its other siblings.  Let's get some further ideas and names down in this thread.

Oh, we also need to add in names and descriptions for the processes, something I've had on my mind for a while.  Perhaps this would be the best place for that?   Santharian versions of "solutio, seperatio, calcinatio", etc. and descriptions of how distillation, reduction, and so on work.

Let's rename this "Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools" and invite some of our gnome friends in to help as well!



Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 27 January 2009, 22:31:34
About the basic alchemical processes, then I can tell that there are only seven most common and basic processes: Calcination, Dissolution, Separation, Conjunction, Fermentation, Distillation and Coagulation. If you wish I can even provide you with information about all these processes.

And about the namings of the tools I'm still thinking. I hope that this evening I'll post here my ideas. Alright?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 January 2009, 23:29:19
Thank you, Lionhorse; I'm actually quite familiar with the processes involved, but I appreciate the offer.  Perhaps we could think about how to give them all unique fantasy/Santharian names?  The gnomes will have their own nomenclature, based on Gnomic, but there should also be human ('Tharian') names as well.

Looking forward to some further ideas.  For now, I'm going to bed before midnight for a change!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 28 January 2009, 05:22:27
About tools, which I listed:

Here are some namings, which I thought out:

Test-tube - also can be called "vial";
Boiling glass - I think it doesn't need any Tharian naming;
Conical flask - can be called simply "flask";
Rounded bulb - can be called simply "rounded bottom flask";
Stand bulb - can be called simply "table flask";
Medicine glass - I think it doesn't need any Tharian naming, because with term "Medicine" Santharia is already familiar;
Measurement cylinder - "measunder" - fusion of words "measurement" + "cylinder" = measu- + -nder. To make it softly sounded, if the first variant is too harsh - "meacyl": derived from words "measurement" + "cylinder" = mea- + cyl-.
Measurement bulb - "meabul": derived from words "measurement" + "bulb" = mea- + bul-.
Filler - "vi", because fillers look like a letter "V" and from it's bottom there is something like a letter "I". Look by yourself here. (http://isma.b1v.lv/webkonkurss/IecavasvsHivricsArkadijs12a/iecavasvsk/kim/tr_ier/image/pilt.gif) :grin:  If not... then you can call them "funnel" or simply "fillion"; derived from word "fill" + -ion (to soften the sound of word);
Porringer - can be called "quartz bowl", because it is sometimes made out of quartz, due to the great quartz's fire resistance, also can be called "small bowl", because it looks like a really small bowl (see for yourself here. (http://isma.b1v.lv/webkonkurss/IecavasvsHivricsArkadijs12a/iecavasvsk/kim/tr_ier/image/blod_kvar.gif));
Mortar - I think it doesn't need any Tharian naming, because it was known in Medieval period;
Pestle - I think it doesn't need any Tharian naming, because it was known in Medieval period;
Crucible - I think it doesn't need any Tharian naming, because it was known in Medieval period; although if it is necessary then we can call it something like "bleiru"; derived from word "crucible" by reforming it's bold letters with places: -ru- + -ible = bleiru;
Stand - can be called "metallic base", because other tools are commonly attached to it and it usually holds the difficult alchemical apparatus constructions and is made of metal, can also be called "setallic"; derived from words "metallic" + "base" bold letters = -se + -tallic, can be called "metallic rod", because it is high and made of metal, "base rod" or "fastening rod", because other tools are commonly attached to it;
Stand clamp - can be called "fastening rod's claw (or) hand", because it is attached to the stand (fastening rod) and usually something is grabbed by this claw or hand (clamp);
Stand ring - "fastening rod's ring" or simply "metallic ring";
Glass rods and metallic spoons - "glacial mixer", because usually small glass rods are used for mixing, or "glacial branch", because it is usually in the same length as a small branch = 1 palmspan = approx. 10 cm. About small metallic spoons... no comments... let it be as it is.
Small alcohol based lamp - "alcohol lamp" or "spirit-lamp", because inside these lamps are liquids, which are similar to Santharian Spirit of Pine and alcohol (on Earth - C10H16, turpentine and C2H5OH, ethanol) - very simple.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 28 January 2009, 06:38:16
Not wanting to get caught in this discussion; 'glacial rod' still isn't a word, as far as Google is concerned.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 28 January 2009, 07:21:34
Yes, Tehuriden, you are right... there is no GLACIAL rod, but there is a term even in Google: "glass rod". :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 28 January 2009, 07:29:22
To quote myself :P[quoteA glacial rod? Does it cast Frost Ray 5/day?

(i think that should be a glass rod)[/quote]

And for the love of Vikthi man, call me Mira(ran) or something!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 28 January 2009, 07:33:37
Excuse me, Miraran... :grin: You are wrong about glass rod, that it cast something. It is casting nothing!!! :grin: It's just called like that - glass rod, and it doesn't mean that, if somewhere else it is called as I called it in here, it is the right thing, which you see in my provided information.

Simply...
Quote
A glacial rod? Does it cast Frost Ray 5/day?

(i think that should be a glass rod)

Answer: No.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 28 January 2009, 07:37:27
FYI:  I think he was joking ;)


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 28 January 2009, 16:26:18
OH,  :grin: It seems that I didn't understood this joke. SORRY!!! :grin: :thumbup: :thumbup: It is so silly of me. :grin:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 28 January 2009, 22:45:23
Yeah, we all have that problem with Miraran's jokes... I find that the best strategy is to smile anyway, just in case there was a joke in there somewhere :P


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 29 January 2009, 01:44:53
Meh. You outsiders just dont understand the finesse of "Vikh humour....


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 29 January 2009, 07:56:10
Well, after centuries of everyone around one politely chuckling or sycophantically guffawing at every utterance from one's mouth lest one extract some dramatic revenge, one may be forgiven for having the inbred assumption that wit is inherent in one's very genes and drips without effort in each syllable one chooses to speak...    possibly the reason for 'Marmarresque humour' as well?




(pokes Mira - and Deci - very gently, lest they extract some dramatic revenge in her direction...)


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 29 January 2009, 21:56:16
Excuse me, Judith, but does such things should occur in the thread like this? :grin: I thought we are having a development work in here. :grin: :grin: :grin: :thumbup: :thumbup: Alright, alright.... I understood that there have to be a break for some joke to not become too... how to say... zombic!!! :grin:

Have you (Judith) read my post about the namings of the tools?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Mannix on 30 January 2009, 16:29:54
Iíve taken a look. :grin: A quick suggestion, because it is way too hot to be near a computer, a few names derived from Gnomic would be good. An example for you: You could have gelazt mean beaker to the gnomes and gelast could be the Tharian derived form. That is a pretty bad example, because Iím not too good at that, but a certain bard is. :)

Mannix


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 30 January 2009, 16:53:13
Yes, Mannix, I also thought about from Gnomic derived namings, although I found no gnomic word list or vocabulary. :cry:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 31 January 2009, 03:36:22
There's a thread for new Gnomic words somewhere, isn't there?  I think it's quite full.  Hang on, I'll see if I can find it, might help.

Here! http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12017.0.html (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12017.0.html)


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Mannix on 31 January 2009, 10:53:54
Yep we do have a list on the dev board, but since we are still very much in the process of developing the language, it isn't on site yet. I think Rookie meant to give you this link (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,13312.0.html). ;) Though that the other one would be good if you plan to make so Gnomic words yourself. I'll try my hand at it later today.

Mannix


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 31 January 2009, 22:19:08
At the moment I'm waiting for Judith's comments and thoughts about my provided namings. And thank you for Gnomish - Tharian vocabulary!!! :grin: I think it will come in handy!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :grin:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 10 October 2009, 20:35:54
Hello, everyone, again. I'm back. I'm sorry that I vanished from here so quickly and unexpected, but I have plenty of exams and I had to study hard to enter the best University in Baltic and in budget group. But now, I have some free time and I'm ready to develop this thing. I know you said that I should wait and I did so, and I really want to develop these alchemical things, because I like everything that is connected with chemistry and pharmacy in real world. So... I have searched for some gnomish namings for the alchemical tools and look what I had come up with.

Naming in real worldTharianGnomish
Test-tubeVial(no associations found in Gnomish vocabulary)
Test-tube standVial stand(no associations found)
Test-tube clampVial claw; vial branch(no associations found)
Beaker (Boiling glass)Boiling glassFirnel ??? (fir = flame, fire + nel = water - refers to something hot and boiling; but ??? - no word associations for word "glass" in vocabulary)
Conical flaskFlask(no associations found)
Round-bottomed flask (Rounded bulb)Rounded bottom flaskSoldelmikran ??? (sol = sphere, globe - refers to something rounded + delmi- from word "delmin" = dark + kran = sea - referes to the "dark bottom of the sea" or to the "bottom" in our case; and ??? - no word associations for word "flask" in vocabulary)
Flask (Stand bulb)Table flask(no associations found)
Measuring glass (Medicine glass)Medicine glass(no associations found)
Graduated cylinder (Measurement cylinder)Measunder; meacyl(no associations found)
Volumetric flask (Measurement bulb)Meabul(no associations found)
Funnel (Filler)Vi; funnel; fillionGnufilim (gn- from word "gno" = element, substance + ufilim = fall, trip - all combination refers to the fall of the substance into something)
Porcelain bowl (Porringer)Quartz bowl; small bowl(no associations found)
MortarMortarGno tiglim (gno = element, substance; and tiglim = poke, prod - all combination refers to the crushing or proding the substance, what in mortar you usually do)
PestlePestleTiglim kig (tiglim = poke, prod; and kig- singular form derived from word "kigi" = things, stuff - all combination refers to the crushing tool)
CrucibleCrucible; bleiru(no associations found)
StandMetallic base; setallic; metallic rod; base rod; fastening rodUmeg ??? (umeg = foot - refers to something basical; base; and ??? - should be another word for word "stand" or something like that)
Stand clampFastening rod's claw; fastening rod's hand; eagle's claw(no associations found)
Stand ringFastening rod's ring; metallic ring(no associations found)
Glass rods and metallic spoonsGlacial mixer; glacial branch; ice branch; about metallic spoons = let them be named as they are already(no associations found)
Small alcohol based lampAlcohol lamp; spirit-lampAlcohols fir kig (alcohols = look in THE TABULATA PERYODIQ OF SANTHARIA; fir = fire, flame and kig- singular form derived from word "kigi" = things, stuff - all combination refers to "alcohol flame" or "alcohol thing that is used to fuel fire")


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 October 2009, 22:07:24
This looks great so far at first glance - and welcome back as well, Lionheart. 

  I like the Tharian versions you've created.  How about something like 'eagle's claw' for the stand clamp - use esoteric associations, as was common in alchemy - or 'ice branch' for the glass rods?   I'll see about incorporating the necessary words into Gnomic, or inventing new needed ones, and then we can post them to the Languages Forum as well.  More in detail later...


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 10 October 2009, 23:12:06
A crucible (after doing my homework) is simply a bowl or container you can make really really hot without damaging so that you can heat materials inside for various science-y purposes. A suggestion for the gnomish would then be "does not burn" however you might translate that.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 11 October 2009, 05:23:49
Judith, alright. I'll then wait till you do that. Maybe I can think by myself some of the new words in gnomish?  :grin:
Hmmm... I think that it will be nice naming for stand clamp... I'll add it to the list for later consideration. And about glacial rods... well... they are made out of glass and your variant "ice branch"... I see only one indirect association - glass is transparent as well as ice, BUT glass is not cold, but ice is. Well... anyway, I'll add your variant to the list of Tharian names as well... for later consideration.

Valan, thank you for suggestion. I'll think about that.  :grin:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 11 October 2009, 22:20:17
I had some free moments to think about several new Gnomish words for some of the tools, that I have listed bellow. So, see themup and say what do you think about that?

New Gnomish words for tools:
Test-tube - Mun (Tharian - "vial")
Test-tube stand - Munfer (Tharian - "vial stand" = Mun (vial) + fer (stand))
Test-tube clamp - Munglirek (Tharian - "vial claw" = Mun (vial) + glirek (claw)); Munfilek (Tharian - "vial branch" = Mun (vial) + filek (branch))
Conical flask - Flog (Tharian - "flask")
Flask (Stand bulb) - Duberflog (Tharian - "table flask" = Duber (table) + flog (flask))
Measuring glass (Medicine glass) - Rum simars (Tharian - "medicine glass" = Rum (medicine); simars (glass))
Graduated cylinder (Measurement cylinder) - Ertumefit (Tharian - "measunder"); Ertumaril (Tharian - "meacyl")
Volumetric flask (Measurement bulb) - Ertubelgik (Tharian - "meabul")
Porcelain bowl (Porringer) - Ifin cegil (Tharian - "tiny bowl" = Ifin (tiny); cegil (bowl))
Crucible - Crubibel (Tharian - "melting bowl" = cru- from word "crugil" (melt) + bibel (bowl))
Stand clamp - Ferglirek (Tharian - "Stand claw" = Fer (stand) + glirek (claw)); Ferfilek (Tharian - "stand branch" = Fer (stand) + filek (branch))
Stand ring - Steeloitil (Tharian - "Steel ring" = Steel (look in THE TABULATA PERYODIQ OF SANTHARIA) + oitil (ring))
Glass rod - Simarsfilek (Tharian - "Glass branch" = Simars (glass) + filek (branch))
Metallic spoon - Steelsforat (Tharian - "Steel spoon" = Steel (look in THE TABULATA PERYODIQ OF SANTHARIA) + sforat (spoon))

New single Gnomish words (to complete the naming of the tool in Gnomish):
glass - simars
flask - flog
stand - fer

My edit in green;
Judith's edit in orange.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 October 2009, 22:44:46
Nicely constructed, Lionhorse.   They have a Gnomic feel to them, and you've done the research to put things together.  However, one thing we'd like to see happen with the gnomish tongue is to slowly tilt it towards a quasi-latinate feel - basically so that it becomes our Latin equivalent/source/etymological excuse for scholarly, academic, and scientific/alchemic words.   

Thus, thinking as a Santharian scholar:    'crucible' (Tharian) comes from the Gnomic 'crugil' - 'melt' plus the Gnomic 'bibel' - 'bowl'.  Thus 'crubibel', 'melting bowl' becomes our 'crucible', with exactly the same meaning. 

(Currently you have cergil for melt and cegil for bowl - far too close anyhow) 

Also, check your spelling.  I think we decided to disallow certain Tharian letters in the use of Gnomish spelling, but I have to go look it up again to be sure - such as 'k' for 'c' and 'z' for 's'....


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 13 October 2009, 04:25:19
Thanks, Judith for suggestion, but I didn't quit understood the spell check ing thing... could you explain, please? Sorry for my lack of understanding!!!  :grin:

Anyway... I had finished creating new fords for these tools and this is how it looks like in my variant:

Naming in real worldTharianGnomish
Test-tubeVialMun
Test-tube standVial standMunfer
Test-tube clampVial claw; vial branchMunglirec; Munfilec
Beaker (Boiling glass)Boiling glassFirnel simars
Conical flaskFlaskFlog
Round-bottomed flask (Rounded bulb)Rounded bottom flaskSoldelmicran flog
Flask (Stand bulb)Table flaskDuberflog
Measuring glass (Medicine glass)Medicine glassRum simars
Graduated cylinder (Measurement cylinder)Measunder; meacylErtumefit; ertumaril
Volumetric flask (Measurement bulb)MeabulErtubelgic
Funnel (Filler)Vi; funnel; fillionGnufilim
Porcelain bowl (Porringer)Tiny bowlIfin cegil
MortarMortarGno tiglim
PestlePestleTiglim kig
CrucibleCrucible; bleiruCrubibel
StandMetallic base; setallic; metallic rod; base rod; fastening rodUmeg fer
Stand clampFastening rod's claw; fastening rod's hand; eagle's clawFerglirec; ferfilec
Stand ringFastening rod's ring; metallic ringSteeloitil
Glass rods and metallic spoonsGlacial mixer; glacial branch; ice branch; about metallic spoons = let them be named as they are alreadySimarsfilec (glacial branch); metallic spoon
Small alcohol based lampAlcohol lamp; spirit-lampAlcohols fir kig


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 13 October 2009, 05:04:03
I think what Judith is suggesting that there are some letters that aren't used in the gnomish tongue. You might have some of those letters in some of your gnomish words. So, you will need to check for the letters not used in Gnomish and make sure you don't use them in your entry.

I'm sure Judith will correct me if I'm wrong with that.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 13 October 2009, 05:10:55
Oh... now I got it!!! Thanks, Hardin!!!  :grin:

By the way I didn't corrected the word "kig", because in your already accepted Gnomish vocabulary there is a word written like "kigi" (it resambles plural form as I understand (translation - things)), but I created a singular form "kig" - thing, therefore I didn't corrected it.

ENTRY EDITED


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 02 November 2009, 05:15:38
So, after a small game creation, lets get back to the development of the alchemical tools.

Judith,
I know that you had no time for thinking about the namings of alchemical tools, but look at mine variants in previous posts and I have a question: Can I make a detailed description about each alchemical tool (how it looks like, is made of etc.)?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 06 November 2009, 07:51:38
Alright, people!!! I spent approximately a week to make the descriptions of all the basic alchemical tools. The same information you can see in my first post of this thread... just look bellow, read and enjoy. Later... tell me your opinion.  :grin:  :thumbup:

Basic alchemical tools

Since the alchemy has ever discovered, to all alchemists it is popular to have their own alchemical workshops or workrooms, in which they can experiment (euxperi) with the substances, which can be found in the World of Caelereth, by using special tools and vessels. Through generations these tools and vessels were simply called "Tools of an Alchemist" and only alchemists understand how to work with them and how to craft them. As the most of these tools are made out of a glass, the main methods of crafting them are with the help of glassblowing, tinkering and blacksmithing crafts, therefore true alchemists need not only the knowledge on the properties of the substances, but also the appropriate knowledge in, already mentioned, crafts.

In the alchemical workshops most commonly use special tools and vessels, which are made out of a glass and sometimes even out of a metal. These most important tools and vessels are vials, flasks, boiling glasses, funnels, measuring vessels - measunderi, meabuls, medicine glasses, and the like.

Types of basic alchemical tools:

The measuring vessels: Measuring vessels are all those vessels that are used to measure a certain amount of the liquid. All these vessels are made only out of a glass.

  • Measunder; meacyl (Gnomish: Ertumefit; ertumaril): The measunder, or differently called - meacyl, is a cylindrically shaped vessel, which has several measuring lines that are drawn on the wall of the cylinder and shows a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/25 of a sip. There are measunderi of various maximal capacities - 1/5, 2/5, one, two, four, ten, twenty, forty and eighty sips. To correctly measure a certain amount of liquid, you must pour the liquid into the measunder until it's surface reaches the drawn line, which you need. Measunderi can also be various in some technical details. Some of them can be with the spout and some - can be without it. They can be wide or thin in diameter, short or long in length. The bottom of measunder also is very important. It has to be smooth and without roughnesses to ensure that measunder will stand on the table still and not slanted to the one or other side, otherwise there is a possability to measure an incorrect amount of liquid, that will affect lasting euxperi and as a result there will be untrue, or sometimes even unwanted, outcomes. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/measunder.jpg)
  • Meabul (Gnomish: Ertubelgic): The meabul is a round, flat-bottomed flask with a narrow and long neck, on which is drawn a measuring line that is in the middle of the neck, and shows a certain capacity. If measunder can measure various capacities at a time, then meabul is created to measure only one certain capacity at a time. There are meabuls of various capacities - one, two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, twenty, forty and rarely eighty sips. Meabuls are used to make the solutions with precise concentration. To make precisely concentrated solution, at first, you have to place the meabul on the horizontal surface. Then, by using a funnel, 1/2 or 2/3 of a meabul fill with the solvent and add powdered substance or liquid, that have to be dissolved in already poured solvent. After that, gargle the vessel to mix up the solvent with the substance or liquid. When you see that all powdered substance has dissolved, add the rest of the solvent until it's surface almost reaches the line and gargle the vessel again. The last drops of the solvent add intently until the surface of the solution reaches the line. It is highly restricted to warm up the meabuls, because the warmth can make them wider in the diameter, therefore badly affecting the measuring results. There even were situations, when warming up meabul ends with its rupture. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/meabul.jpg)
  • Medicine glass (Gnomish: Rum simars): The medicine glass is a conical or cylindrically shaped vessel, that has the measuring lines on it's wall, which show a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/5 of a sip. As well as measunderi and meabuls, medicine glasses can also vary in capacity, but the alchemists mostly use those medicine glasses that have the maximum capacities of two, four, ten, twenty and forty sips. If the measunderi and meabuls are used for measuring precise amount of the liquid, then medicine glasses are used only for measuring an approximate amount of the liquid. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/junk/medicineglass.jpg)

The vessels that have a thin walls: These vessels should be very resistant to the influence of the aggressive natured substances or high temperatures, as well as to their sudden changes. As the name of this category of the vessels says, all of these tools should be with thin walls.

  • Boiling glass (Gnomish: Firnel simars): The boiling glasses are a cylindrically shaped vessels, which can be long and small in length. The length of the long boiling glasses must be twice as big as their diameter. These glasses can be with a snout or without it, with measuring lines on their walls or without them. The capacity of these glasses can be various: long glasses can have a maximum capacity of two, four, six, ten, sixteen, twenty-four, forty, eighty, one hundred and twelve sips, small glasses - 1/5, 2/5, one and up to two hundred sips. It is restricted to heat boiling glasses on an open fire. They can be heated only on the closed heating surfaces, like on a home furnace, and in various kind of baths. (click here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/boilingglass.jpg) and here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/boilingglasswmeasuringlines.jpg)to see the pictures)
  • Flask (Gnomish: Flog): The flasks are a conical shaped vessels with a flat bottom and narrow neck. They are made out of glass that has a high resistance against the aggressive natured substances and high temperatures. The capacity of these flasks is various - starting with 2/5 of a sip and up to two hundred sips. In appearance they differ by the length of a neck and by their diameter. These flasks use for making the solutions or during the researching euxperi. You should remember that these flasks can be heated only on the closed heating surfaces. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/flask.jpg)
  • Table flask (Gnomish: Duberflog): The table flasks are rounded, flat-bottomed vessels. The flat-bottom insures flask's stability on the horizontal surface. The table flasks can have various length of a neck and capacities - starting with one and up to two hundred sips. The usage and resistance of these flasks are the same as a simple flasks. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/tableflask.jpg)
  • Rounded bottom flask (Gnomish: Soldelmicran flog): The rounded bottom flasks have a neck of various length and diameter, and their bottoms are totally rounded, therefore such flasks can not be placed on the horizontal surface in vertical position, but can be fastened to a fastening rod. The capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have long necks, can vary from four to one hundred and twelve sips, but the capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have short necks, can vary between two and forty sips. These flasks are used for heating the liquids during the long time period on the open fire.  (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/rbflask.jpg)
  • Vial (Gnomish: Mun): The vials are a small, cylindrically shaped glacial tubes, with closed lower ends. Their length can vary from three nailsbreadths, four grains up to two palmspans, six nailsbreadths, four grains, but diameter can vary between two nailsbreadths and two nailsbreadths, four grains. The vials are used only for working with small amounts of the substances, therefore the vials should be filled no more than 1/4 to 1/8 of their total capacity. It is restricted to fill the vial full. Heating the vial on the open fire, you should begin to do so in direction from top of the vial to it's bottom, otherwise - heating the vial in an opposite direction, it is a huge possability that the substance, that is inside the vial, will slop out of it all over the place, and if it is very explosive or corrosive substance, the outcome can be very unpleasant. During the euxperi, the vial should be held in the hand, but when heated - it should be fastened to a fastening rod, which is made out of iron, or it should be placed into the vial claw. The vials are placed and held in the vial stands (clean vials should be placed with opened end downward, but during euxperi - with opened end upward). After the euxperi the vials should be washed very carefully. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/vial.jpg)

The vessels that have a thick walls: The main advantage of these vessels is elevated durability. As any other tool in the alchemists workshop, these vessels are made out of a glass that is very resistant to the corrosive substances. These vessels are made with a thick walls and have lowered durability against heat, therefore they can easily rupture if heated, and that is a thing that should not be done with the vessels of this type.

  • Funnel, vi, fillion (Gnomish: Gnufilim): The glass funnels, that are also called vi or fillion, in the workshop of an alchemist can be used for various goals - filtration, separation of solutions, for pattering solid or powdered substances into the other vessels, or for pouring liquids into the other vessels etc. Therefore they can vary in appearance. Funnel is a conical shaped vessel that has a tube, that is molten to the top of it, and this tube has a delicate truncated end. The size of the funnel is determined by it's diameter. Usually alchemists use only eight different sized funnels, which diameters are: 1.) three nailsbreadths and two grains, 2.) five nailsbreadths and two grains, 3.) six nailsbreadths and four grains, 4.) one palmspan, 5.) one palmspan, four nailsbreadths and four grains, 6.) two palmspans, 7.) two palmspans, four nailsbreadths and four grains, and 8.) two palmspans, nine nailsbreadths and four grains. (click here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/common_funnel.jpg) and here  (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/funnel_for_powdered_solid_substance.jpg)to see the pictures)

Overview about the vessels that are made out of a porcelain: These vessels, as well as the glacial ones, can be divided into two groups - vessels with a thick and thin walls. Peculiarities, advantages and possible usages of porcelain vessels, are deffined by the thickness of their walls. The porcelain vessels with a thick walls are durable and resistant enough to the influence of the aggressive natured substances. That's why they are generally used if there is a need to use strength - grinding, blunging and mixing the solid substances, or differently called Earth substances - Yrth Peryodiqa, into the powder. The porcelain vessels with a thin walls are even much more resistant and durable to the aggressive natured substances and sudden changes of the temperatures, than the porcelain vessels with a thick walls. Therefore they are generally used for heating of the substances on the open fire. However, the porcelain vessels have their own disadvantages - they are heavy, expensive and not translucent.

The vessels that are made out of a porcelain and have a thick walls:

  • Mortar (Gnomish: Gno tiglim) and Pestle (Gnomish: Tiglim kig): The mortars are a massive half-spherical shaped vessels that are made out of a porcelain, have a thick walls, and are used for grinding the solid substances. To make the usage of mortar comfortable enough, each of them needs a pestle that is in an appropriate length and size. The outer surface of a mortar, excluding it's flat bottom, and handle of a pestle is covered by a glaze, but mortar's inner surface and the head of a pestle is mated and porous. Such construction ensures the grinding of the solid substance into a powder. The mortar's flat bottom is not covered by a glaze only to make it still, if put on the horizontal surface. The mortars can be made out of a various materials - grey iron, black iron, copper and glass, but most commonly are used those mortars that are made out of a porcelain. They can even be made in various diameters and sizes. Working with mortar, you must remember to fill it no more than 1/3 of it's capacity to ensure easier work with it during the euxperi. It is restricted to heat mortars, because on warm surfaces or above an open fire, mortars may often rupture. The mortars are also restricted to place in water baths, because their flat bottoms soak in a very large amount of a water and mortars become very heavy. The only way how you can heat the substance, that is inside of a mortar, is by the warmth of the sun or by placing the mortar near some kind warm source, like the home furnace. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/mortar_and_pestle.jpg)

The vessels that are made out of a porcelain and have a thin walls:

  • Tiny bowl (Gnomish: Ifin cegil): The tiny bowls are a tiny porcelain vessels with a rounded bottom. The bowl's inner surface is covered by a glaze, but the cover for the outer surface of the bowl can vary. The sizes of these bowls are deffined by their diameter, which can vary between two nailsbreadths, four grains and one fore, one palmspan, one nailsbreadth, three grains. Overall, there are eight sizes of these bowls and their capacity can also be various - starting from one sip to one hundred and eighty four sips. The tiny bowls can be heated on the open fire, in the furnaces and in the water baths. They generally are used for heating the substances and for their evaporation. It is restricted to take and hold the hot tiny bowls with bear hands. When you want to heat something in this bowl, at first, you should fasten it into the bowl claw and only then you can start heating by taking the handle of the claw, in which is fastened this bowl. Doing so you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/porcelain_bowl.jpg)
  • Crucible (Gnomish: Crubibel): The crucibles are a conical shaped porcelain vessels with a flat bottom. The crucibles are very much like the tiny bowls, except that the crucibles are much more resistant to the heat and sudden changes of the temperature than the tiny bowls, therefore you can put the crucibles into the furnace without a fear that they may rupture. If a tiny bowl you use to heat or evaporate the substance, then a crucible you can use only to melt solid substances, like metals and the like. The crucibles can be made out of a quartz and black iron, but usually alchemists use those crucibles that are made out of a porcelain. As well as the tiny bowls, hot crucibles also are restricted to hold and take with bear hands. When you want to heat something inside of a crucible, at first, you should fasten it into the crucible claw and only then you can start heating by taking the handle of the claw, in which is fastened the crucible. Doing so you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/Dumidors/crucible.jpg)

The other tools of an alchemist:

  • Fastening rod (Gnomish: Umeg fer) and it's details: In alchemical workshop often are used other, much complicated devices and for their creation are used the fastening rods, the fastening rod's claws (Gnomish: Ferglirec), or also called - the fastening rod's branches (Gnomish: Ferfilec), and metallic rings (Gnomish: Steeloitil). With help of these tools it is possible to fasten the vials, flasks and funnels to the fastening rod. If you wish to make some kind device, which would consist of various vessels, you should use glacial tubes (Gnomish: Simarli mef (Simarli - "glacial", tube - "mef"), plural form: Simarli mefi) with the corks (Gnomish: Kret - "cork", plural: Kreti), that are used for closing the vessels and making the connections between them. It is important to remember that before placing corks inside of the tubes, you should moisten them from the outside, to make them get into the opened ends of the tubes better. The tubes you should hold near the cork, otherwise there is a possability to brake them and have your hands cut by broken glass. The fastening rods are made only out of a metal - black or grey iron, and look like a simple rods, which are 1 ped high and 1 nailsbreadth thick, and one of their ends is molten to a board, which is 2 palmspans in length, 2 palmspans wide and several nailsbreadth thick. The board also is made out of a metal. The fastening rod's claws and metallic rings also are made out of the same metal as the fastening rod. The fastening rod's claw is a tool, that looks like a claw, in which you can fasten a vial, flask or any other tool, and then, with a help of a small refling, that is on the claw, you can fasten it to the fastening rod. The metallic ring looks like a rod on whose end is a ring. Usually these rings are wide enough to make the round bottomed flasks stand still in these rings and not fall through them. The metallic rings also has a refling, which helps to fasten them to the fastening rod.
  • Claws for the tiny bowls and crucibles (Gnomish: for tiny bowls - Ifinglirek, for crucibles - Cruglirek): These claws look like a simple fastening rod's claws, have the same usage method and are made out of the same material, but the difference is in size and they have no refling. For tiny bowls usually use the claws that are no more than two palmspans, one nailsbreadth, four grains in length. For the crucibles are used two different sized claws - one of them is one ped in length, but the other - one fore, one palmspan, six nailsbreadths, three grains in length. The longer crucible claw is used for the crucibles, if you need to put them out or into the furnace, but the shorter crucible claw is used, if you need to heat the crucible on the open fire.
  • Vial claw; vial branch (Gnomish: Munglirec; munfilec): The vial claw looks exactly like a claw for tiny bowl and have the same usage. The alchemists named them differently only to ensure the order in the workshop - each tool should be in the correct place and should be used by the alchemist as he or she wishes.
  • Vial stand (Gnomish: Munfer): The vial stand usually is made out of a wood. It looks like a small, empty, wooden box, whose only one side has many holes that are wide enough to put the vials through them and make them to hold still in the stand. The vial stands are used in situations when you need to put a vial somewhere aside, but it contains some kind substance, that will be usefull in euxperi later and should not be sloped all over the place.
  • Glass rod (Gnomish: Simarsfilec) and metallic spoon (Gnomish: metallic spoon): The small glass rods and metallic spoons are used for variety of tasks. The small glass rods, which can be 1 palmspan in length, are used for mixing liquids, but the small metallic spoons, which also can reach only 1 palmspan length, are used for heating the substances over the open flame or for taking some solid or powdered substances, because all substances are restricted to take with bare hands. In reference to this, among the alchemists there is a saying: "You will never know how substance will show itself, when touched with bare hands."
  • Alcohol lamp; spirit-lamp (Gnomish: Alcohols fir kig): The alcohol lamps, or differently called - spirit-lamps, are used for producing flame for boiling and warming the substances. Of course, the same effect can be achieved by warming the vessel in or upon the furnace.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Keldren on 06 November 2009, 14:00:12
Not sure if I missed it but you should include the Alembic; used for distillation of liquids consisting of two vessels linked by glass tubes.
another is the calcinator; this oxidizes agents by cooking them over high heat generally made of copper


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 06 November 2009, 16:26:14
Keldren, alembic and calcinator these both are devices not BASIC tools. And as I know, there are no distillation and calcination processes in Santharia, yet. :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 06 November 2009, 17:02:06
That looks interesting, but as alchemie is not my area, I can't say more.

I have just one issue with it. We do have porcelain cups and glass as well, but is the use of this so common, that you have them as basic tools? What about clay bowls or even wooden bowls, would they not suffice in most cases? Otherwise that might be a very expensive job.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 06 November 2009, 17:49:50
Now then, I don't know anything about making beer or wine or other forms of alcohol, as this question will no doubt demonstrate, but as Caelereth has alcohol of various forms, doesn't that mean they know how to distel liquids?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 06 November 2009, 18:42:51
Yes, but you can do that with two pots and one lid also ;) We do have porcelain or glass, but is it so common?

---> the smaller pot has to fit in the bigger pot, the lid bigger than the smaller pot, but smaller than the bigger pot, heat the stuff, and the water with alcohol will condense on the lid and run down in the bigger pot.

I know this from my grandfather, the base were potatoes and it was very likely, that you did get the wrong kind of alcohol, the one which makes you blind  :evil:



Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 06 November 2009, 20:28:28
Ammm... who said that being an alchemist is easy and cheep? And, no, other materials (excluding those which I wrote) can not be used to make these tools, because wood or clay are not resistant enough to the corrosive substances, which in the world of Santharia exist, and will often rupture, resulting a negative outcome, that can cost much more that the tools out of a glass and a porcelain. This is in the cases, if you are very, very lucky alchemist, otherwise the failure of an experiment may lead to the lethal outcome, and to prevent it, the tools should be made out of the materials which I wrote.

About having an alcohol... well possibly you are right, Deklitch, there are Gnorian gnomes who can ferment alcohol virtually out of anything containing sugar, but at the moment I'm presenting the simple tools of an alchemist, not some kind devices, that contain many of these tools and with whom you can acchieve the creation of an alcohol. To distil or to achieve other alchemical processes, you need an appropriate device about whom I'll write later. At the moment we should concentrate our attention to the tools not devices.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 06 November 2009, 21:26:48
Lionhorse,

I'm curious as to where you got the idea that I was telling you what you should be putting in your entry. On reading my comment, and re-reading it, I fail to see where I was saying anything about tools or devices. I was simply suggesting that there is in fact distilling processes in existence in the world of Caelereth. I said nothing at all about tools or devices. I was pointing out that as there is alcohol, distilling must in fact be a process that exists in the world of Caelereth, which seems to be contrary to the statement you made to Keldren earlier.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 06 November 2009, 21:40:49
Oh, now it is clear to me!!!  :grin:  :thumbup:

Sorry for being so not understanding, because I thought that you was about to suggest to put the devices here. Well... I got confused when Judith once said that there are not deffined destilation and other processes in alchemy of Santharia or something like that, therefore I thought that there are no such processes at all, but after your post and some research I found that I misunderstood you or Judith, or both of you. :grin:  Well anyway... I usually get in such confusing situations, when there is a talk about something very important.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 06 November 2009, 21:46:49
Important Note:
The title of this topic is in fact Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
(I see no processes Lionhorse)

Look up This page (http://www.santharia.com/food_and_drinks/drinks.htm). Booze. Alcohol, fermentation and distillation. We're not suggesting making alcohol from blood, but the usual way (grain or fruits of some sort) which would require at least a basic understanding of the sort of process Talia described.


So what about those "Basic Alchemical Processes" I hear so much about?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 07 November 2009, 04:05:52
Did I suggested to make the alcohol out of a blood? The processes will come up after the tools will be discussed, and Talia meantions only the way how drink is made, not the way how works distillation and fermentation processes.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 November 2009, 04:17:44

Quote
Talia meantions only the way how drink is made, not the way how works distillation and fermentation processes.

It is the distillation process, the drink itself is unimportant, you can take every other grain or fruit. Basically, you could produce distilled water this way also, though it might be not too pure. You could use this example, when you describe the processes.

Hmm, wouldn't it make more sense, to describe the process first and then the tools? Well, let somebody with knowledge look over this first :)


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 07 November 2009, 05:18:30
I actually don't know. I just had an inspiration to describe tools and so I did.  :grin:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 07 November 2009, 05:44:04
Did I suggested to make the alcohol out of a blood?
No one is suggesting you did, Lionhorse ... Valan was just using that as a saying ... I'm sure you've heard of 'you can't get blood out of a stone' ... something similar to that.

If you are just wanting to focus on the tools at this stage and leave the processes until later, why don't you change the Title of your proposed entry to just 'Alchemical Tools'? That might stop the confusion from others who see the title and expect to see both processes and tools in the entry, especially as you don't have the work in progress icon up on it.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Processes and Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 07 November 2009, 06:28:33
At first all this was only in the level of an idea and I didn't knew exactly am I permitted to change the common icons into development icons, therefore I didn't changed the icon, but if you wish I can do so. :grin:  The same about naming of the thread, but I'll change it. Don't worry. :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 12 November 2009, 05:18:28
Well, it's good that there's dedication to this subject, though at the first glance the categorisation strikes me as weird. I'm no expert in alchemy, but if your first category is "Measuring vessels", then  the next category "The vessels that have a thin walls" sounds already pretty strange to me. And it continues with thickness of the vessel being the important thing in the other categories. Erm... Is this really how scholars make their distinctions? I bet they'd find better category subjects!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 November 2009, 08:34:28
I will be going over this with a finetooth comb at some point, as it contains a lot of important phrases, concepts, and words that pertain to Alchemy.  I will try to make that a priority when I have the time/energy, so that this entry does not have to wait around forever. 


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 12 November 2009, 16:05:44
Artimidor, but that's why I need your help too.  :grin:  I just didn't knew how to say in other words therefore I wrote all of that as I could - as my English level allows me. :grin:
Judith, thank you very much for helping me!!! :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 25 November 2009, 06:56:46
By the way, does someone knows what happened to Judith? :(


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 25 November 2009, 07:32:01
People (hard to believe as it might be) have lives outside of Santharia. Judith will get to this when she gets the time I would imagine. A PM might not go amiss if you don't see anything in the next few days though.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 26 November 2009, 01:57:35
I know that people has their own lives and that she is busy. I asked this question only to know how busy she is, that's all. :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 26 November 2009, 03:04:58
Judy won't show up at the Forum for a while, so don't expect comments soon. She's fine though and works on a bunch of Santhworld pics right now.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 27 November 2009, 05:26:36
Thank's, Artimidor, that's all I wanted to know. :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Stormraven on 02 December 2009, 23:38:29
OK. After reading through everything I have a few suggestions for you Lionhorse.
1; remove the thin wall and thick wall headings. They do seem to make it more confusing as well as being kind of clunky. Plus you have a crucible listed as thin walled. I have a crucible I use for melting down silver and making bronze it has very thick walls. This is just an example.
2; Use spell check and preview your posts. It will help in the long run.
3; You have chosen as ambitious a project as my poisons project. It will take you awhile to get all this stuff sorted.
4; You could try organizing the vessels alphabetically


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 03 December 2009, 05:20:43
Answers:
1.) Alright, I'll remove the thin wall and thick wall headings, but... how can I say it differently to make it sound scholarly? Crucibles are thin wall vessels. The example you have, is the example of thin wall vessels. So, you can imagine how thick are thick wall vessels.  :grin:
2.) I'm doing so, occasionally. :)
3.) Well, that's the life of the scholars and developers. Isn't it? :grin:
4.) DONE!!! :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Aaron Silverleaf on 21 December 2009, 09:58:42
Just going to give you some comments and fix some grammar problems.

Quote
Spelling and Grammar in Light blue!
Comments in Red
Basic Alchemical Tools

Since the alchemy has ever discovered, to all alchemists it is popular to have their own alchemical workshops or workrooms, in which they can experiment (euxperi) with the substances, which can be found in the World of Caelereth, by using special tools and vessels. Through generations these tools and vessels were simply called "Tools of an Alchemist" and only alchemists understand how to work with them and how to craft  them. As the most of these tools are made out of a glass, the main methods of crafting them are with the help of glassblowing, tinkering and blacksmithing crafts, therefore true alchemists need not only the knowledge on the properties of the substances, but also the appropriate knowledge in, already mentioned, crafts.

In the alchemical workshops most commonly use special tools and vessels, which are made out of a glass and sometimes even out of a metal. These most important tools and vessels are vials, flasks, boiling glasses, funnels, measuring vessels - measunderi, meabuls, medicine glasses, and the like.

Types of Basic Alchemical Tools:

The Measuring vessels: Measuring vessels are all those vessels that are used to measure a certain amount of the liquid. All these vessels are made only out of a glass.

Meabul (Gnomish: Ertubelgic): The meabul is a round, flat-bottomed flask with a narrow and long neck, on which is drawn a measuring line that is in the middle of the neck, and shows a certain capacity. If measunder can measure various capacities at a time, then meabul is created to measure only one certain capacity at a time. There are meabuls of various capacities - one, two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, twenty, forty and rarely eighty sips. Meabuls are used to make the solutions with precise concentration. To make a precisely concentrated solution, at first, you have to place the meabul on the horizontal surface. Then, by using a funnel, 1/2 or 2/3 of a meabul fill (Strange sentence structure. Perhaps you could do something like this "fill 1/2 or 2/3 of a meabul with a funnel") with the solvent and add powdered substances or liquid, that have to be dissolved in already poured solvent. After that, gargle the vessel to mix up the solvent with the substance or liquid. When you see that all powdered substance has dissolved, add the rest of the solvent until it's surface almost reaches the line and gargle the vessel again. The last drops of the solvent add intently (Another odd sentence. Maybe something like this "Add the last drops of the solent intently") until the surface of the solution reaches the line. It is highly restricted (Restricted is a strange word to use here maybe it isn't reccomended instead?) to warm up the meabuls, because the warmth can make them wider in the diameter, therefore badly affecting the measuring results. There even were situations, when warming up meabul ends with its rupture. (click here to see the picture)
Measunder; meacyl (Gnomish: Ertumefit; ertumaril): The measunder, or differently called - meacyl, is a cylindrically shaped vessel, which has several measuring lines that are drawn on the wall of the cylinder and shows a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/25 of a sip. There are measunderi of various maximal capacities - 1/5, 2/5, one, two, four, ten, twenty, forty and eighty sips. To correctly measure a certain amount of liquid, you must pour the liquid into the measunder until it's surface reaches the drawn line, which you need. Measunderi can also be various in some technical details. Some of them can be with the spout and some - can be (I would reccomend to remove "can be")  without it. They can be wide or thin in diameter, short or long in length. The bottom of measunder also is very important. It has to be smooth and without roughnesses (isn't smooth and without roughness basically the same? It seems rather unnecessary) to ensure that measunder will stand on the table still and not slanted to the one or other side, otherwise there is a possibility to measure an incorrect amount of liquid, that will affect lasting euxperi and as a result there will be untrue, or sometimes even unwanted, outcomes. (click here to see the picture)
Medicine glass (Gnomish: Rum simars): The medicine glass is a conical or cylindrically shaped vessel, that has the measuring lines on it's wall, which show a certain capacity. Each line has a value of 1/5 of a sip. As well as measunderi and meabuls, medicine glasses can also vary in capacity, but the alchemists mostly use those medicine glasses that have the maximum capacities of two, four, ten, twenty and forty sips. If the measunderi and meabuls are used for measuring precise amount of the liquid, then medicine glasses are used only for measuring an approximate amount of the liquid. (click here to see the picture)

The vessels that have a thin walls: These vessels should be very resistant to the influence of the aggressive natured substances or high temperatures, as well as to their sudden changes. As the name of this category of the vessels says, all of these tools should be with thin walls.

Boiling glass (Gnomish: Firnel simars): The boiling glasses are a cylindrically shaped vessels, which can be long and small in length. The length of the long boiling glasses must be twice as big as their diameter. These glasses can be with a snout or without it, with measuring lines on their walls or without them. The capacity of these glasses can be various: long glasses can have a maximum capacity of two, four, six, ten, sixteen, twenty-four, forty, eighty, one hundred and twelve sips, small glasses - 1/5, 2/5, one and up to two hundred sips. It is restricted to heat boiling glasses on an open fire. They can be heated only on the closed heating surfaces, like on a home furnace, and in various kind of baths. (click here and here to see the pictures)
Flask (Gnomish: Flog): The flasks are a conical shaped vessels with a flat bottom and narrow neck. They are made out of glass that has a high resistance against the aggressive natured substances and high temperatures. The capacity of these flasks is various - starting with 2/5 of a sip and up to two hundred sips. In appearance they differ by the length of a neck and by their diameter. These flasks use for making the solutions or during the researching euxperi. You should remember that these flasks can be heated only on the closed heating surfaces. (click here to see the picture)
Rounded bottom flask (Gnomish: Soldelmicran flog): The rounded bottom flasks have a neck of various length and diameter, and their bottoms are totally rounded, therefore such flasks can not be placed on the horizontal surface in vertical position, but can be fastened to a fastening rod. The capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have long necks, can vary from four to one hundred and twelve sips, but the capacity of the rounded bottom flasks, that have short necks, can vary between two and forty sips. These flasks are used for heating the liquids during the long time period on the open fire.  (click here to see the picture)
Table flask (Gnomish: Duberflog): The table flasks are rounded, flat-bottomed vessels. The flat-bottom insures flask's stability on the horizontal surface. The table flasks can have various length of a neck and capacities - starting with one and up to two hundred sips. The usage and resistance of these flasks are the same as a simple flasks. (click here to see the picture)
Vial (Gnomish: Mun): The vials are a small, cylindrically shaped glacial tubes, with closed lower ends. Their length can vary from three nailsbreadths, four grains up to two palmspans, six nailsbreadths, four grains, but diameter can vary between two nailsbreadths and two nailsbreadths, four grains. The vials are used only for working with small amounts of the substances, therefore the vials should be filled no more than 1/4 to 1/8 of their total capacity. It is restricted (Restricted isn't the right word here I think. Maybe you could use not recommended?) to fill the vial full. Heating the vial on the open fire, you should begin to do so in direction from top of the vial to it's bottom, otherwise - heating the vial in an opposite direction, it is a huge possability that the substance, that is inside the vial, will slop out of it all over the place, and if it is very explosive or corrosive substance, the outcome can be very unpleasant. During the euxperi, the vial should be held in the hand, but when heated - it should be fastened to a fastening rod, which is made out of iron, or it should be placed into the vial claw. The vials are placed and held in the vial stands (clean vials should be placed with opened end downward, but during euxperi - with opened end upward). After the euxperi the vials should be washed very carefully. (click here to see the picture)

The vessels that have a thick walls: The main advantage of these vessels is elevated durability. As any other tool in the alchemists workshop, these vessels are made out of a glass that is very resistant to the corrosive substances. These Vessels are made with a thick walls and have lowered durability against heat, therefore they can easily rupture if heated, and that is a thing that should not be done with the vessels of this type.

Funnel, vi, fillion (Gnomish: Gnufilim): The glass funnels, that are also called vi or fillion, in the workshop of an alchemist can be used for various goals - filtration, separation of solutions, for pattering solid or powdered substances into the other vessels, or for pouring liquids into the other vessels etc. Therefore they can vary in appearance. Funnels are a conical shaped vessel that has a tube, that is molten to the top of it, and this tube has a delicate truncated end. The size of the funnel is determined by it's diameter. Usually alchemists use only eight different sized funnels, which diameters are: 1.) three nailsbreadths and two grains, 2.) five nailsbreadths and two grains, 3.) six nailsbreadths and four grains, 4.) one palmspan, 5.) one palmspan, four nailsbreadths and four grains, 6.) two palmspans, 7.) two palmspans, four nailsbreadths and four grains, and 8.) two palmspans, nine nailsbreadths and four grains. (click here and here to see the pictures)

Overview about the vessels that are made out of a porcelain: These vessels, as well as the glacial ones, can be divided into two groups - vessels with a thick and thin walls. Peculiarities, advantages and possible usages of porcelain vessels, are deffined by the thickness of their walls. The porcelain vessels with a thick walls are durable and resistant enough to the influence of the aggressive natured substances. That's why they are generally used if there is a need to use strength - grinding, blunging and mixing the solid substances, or differently called Earth substances - Yrth Peryodiqa, into the powder. The porcelain vessels with a thin walls are even much more resistant and durable to the aggressive natured substances and sudden changes of the temperatures, than the porcelain vessels with a thick walls. Therefore they are generally used for heating of the substances on the open fire. However, the porcelain vessels have their own disadvantages - they are heavy, expensive and not translucent.

The vessels that are made out of a porcelain and have a thick walls:

Mortar (Gnomish: Gno tiglim) and Pestle (Gnomish: Tiglim kig): The mortars are a massive half-spherical shaped vessels that are made out of a porcelain, have a thick walls, and are used for grinding the solid substances. To make the usage of mortar comfortable enough, each of them needs a pestle that is in an appropriate length and size. The outer surface of a mortar, excluding it's flat bottom, and handle of a pestle is covered by a glaze, but mortar's inner surface and the head of a pestle is mated and porous. Such construction ensures the grinding of the solid substance into a powder. The mortar's flat bottom is not covered by a glaze only to make it still, if put on the horizontal surface. The mortars can be made out of a various materials - grey iron, black iron, copper and glass, but most commonly are used those mortars that are made out of a porcelain. They can even be made in various diameters and sizes. Working with mortar, you must remember to fill it no more than 1/3 of it's capacity to ensure easier work with it during the euxperi. It is restricted (Again I think not recommended would work better here) to heat mortars, because on warm surfaces or above an open fire, mortars may often rupture. The mortars are also restricted to place in water baths, because their flat bottoms soak in a very large amount of a water and mortars become very heavy. The only way how you can heat the substance, that is inside of a mortar, is by the warmth of the sun or by placing the mortar near some kind warm source, like the home furnace. (click here to see the picture)

The vessels that are made out of a porcelain and have a thin walls:

Crucible (Gnomish: Crubibel): The crucibles are a conical shaped porcelain vessels with a flat bottom. The crucibles are very much like the tiny bowls, except that the crucibles are much more resistant to the heat and sudden changes of the temperature than the tiny bowls, therefore you can put the crucibles into the furnace without a fear that they may rupture. If a tiny bowl you use to heat or evaporate the substance, then a crucible you can use only to melt solid substances, like metals and the like. The crucibles can be made out of a quartz and black iron, but usually alchemists use those crucibles that are made out of a porcelain. As well as the tiny bowls, hot crucibles also are restricted (Me thinks dangerous would work better here) to hold and take with bear hands. When you want to heat something inside of a crucible, at first, you should fasten it into the crucible claw and only then you can start heating by taking the handle of the claw, in which is fastened the crucible. Doing so you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture)
Tiny bowl (Gnomish: Ifin cegil): The tiny bowls are a tiny porcelain vessels with a rounded bottom. The bowl's inner surface is covered by a glaze, but the cover for the outer surface of the bowl can vary. The sizes of these bowls are defined by their diameter, which can vary between two nailsbreadths, four grains and one fore, one palmspan, one nailsbreadth, three grains. Overall, there are eight sizes of these bowls and their capacity can also be various - starting from one sip to one hundred and eighty four sips. The tiny bowls can be heated on the open fire, in the furnaces and in the water baths. They generally are used for heating the substances and for their evaporation. It is restricted to take and hold the hot tiny bowls with bear hands. When you want to heat something in this bowl, at first, you should fasten it into the bowl claw and only then you can start heating by taking the handle of the claw, in which is fastened this bowl. Doing so you avoid being burned heavily. (click here to see the picture)

The other tools of an alchemist:

Alcohol lamp; spirit-lamp (Gnomish: Alcohols fir kig): The alcohol lamps, or differently called - spirit-lamps, are used for producing flame for boiling and warming the substances. Of course, the same effect can be achieved by warming the vessel in or upon the furnace.
Claws for the tiny bowls and crucibles (Gnomish: for tiny bowls - Ifinglirek, for crucibles - Cruglirek): These claws look like a simple fastening rod's claws, have the same usage method and are made out of the same material, but the difference is in size and they have no refling (What is this word?). For tiny bowls usually use the claws that are no more than two palmspans, one nailsbreadth, four grains in length. For the crucibles are used two different sized claws - one of them is one ped in length, but the other - one fore, one palmspan, six nailsbreadths, three grains in length. The longer crucible claw is used for the crucibles, if you need to put them out or into the furnace, but the shorter crucible claw is used, if you need to heat the crucible on the open fire.
Glass rod (Gnomish: Simarsfilec) and metallic spoon (Gnomish: metallic spoon): The small glass rods and metallic spoons are used for variety of tasks. The small glass rods, which can be 1 palmspan in length, are used for mixing liquids, but the small metallic spoons, which also can reach only 1 palmspan length, are used for heating the substances over the open flame or for taking some solid or powdered substances, because all substances are restricted to take with bare hands. In reference to this, among the alchemists there is a saying: "You will never know how substance will show itself, when touched with bare hands."
Fastening rod (Gnomish: Umeg fer) and it's details: In alchemical workshop often are used other, much complicated devices and for their creation are used the fastening rods, the fastening rod's claws (Gnomish: Ferglirec), or also called - the fastening rod's branches (Gnomish: Ferfilec), and metallic rings (Gnomish: Steeloitil). With help of these tools it is possible to fasten the vials, flasks and funnels to the fastening rod. If you wish to make some kind device, which would consist of various vessels, you should use glacial tubes (Gnomish: Simarli mef (Simarli - "glacial", tube - "mef"), plural form: Simarli mefi) with the corks (Gnomish: Kret - "cork", plural: Kreti), that are used for closing the vessels and making the connections between them. It is important to remember that before placing corks inside of the tubes, you should moisten them from the outside, to make them get into the opened ends of the tubes better. The tubes you should hold near the cork, otherwise there is a possability to brake them and have your hands cut by broken glass. The fastening rods are made only out of a metal - black or grey iron, and look like a simple rods, which are 1 ped high and 1 nailsbreadth thick, and one of their ends is molten to a board, which is 2 palmspans in length, 2 palmspans wide and several nailsbreadth thick. The board also is made out of a metal. The fastening rod's claws and metallic rings also are made out of the same metal as the fastening rod. The fastening rod's claw is a tool, that looks like a claw, in which you can fasten a vial, flask or any other tool, and then, with a help of a small refling, that is on the claw, you can fasten it to the fastening rod. The metallic ring looks like a rod on whose end is a ring. Usually these rings are wide enough to make the round bottomed flasks stand still in these rings and not fall through them. The metallic rings also has a refling, which helps to fasten them to the fastening rod.
Vial claw; vial branch (Gnomish: Munglirec; munfilec): The vial claw looks exactly like a claw for tiny bowl and have the same usage. The alchemists named them differently only to ensure the order in the workshop - each tool should be in the correct place and should be used by the alchemist as he or she wishes.
Vial stand (Gnomish: Munfer): The vial stand usually is made out of a wood. It looks like a small, empty, wooden box, whose only one side has many holes that are wide enough to put the vials through them and make them to hold still in the stand. The vial stands are used in situations when you need to put a vial somewhere aside, but it contains some kind substance, that will be usefull in euxperi later and should not be sloped all over the place.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 21 December 2009, 10:38:35
Aaron, for the record it is very difficult for people with some screens to read a dark blue or red on a black background. I've edited it for you this time, but you might try using say yellow or lightish red


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Aaron Silverleaf on 21 December 2009, 10:40:42
Oh sorry about that  :P but thanks Valan for changing it!  :D


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 02 January 2010, 20:48:19
Valan, on the contrary, I have a huge problem with finding grammar problems if they are colored in light blue or light red. Therefore, I used red instead.
Aaron, I'll edit my entry soon. I don't know about word "restricted".... you see, I think it is a perfect word, because it says that you "can't do something at any cost", "it is forbidden to do something at all". But "not recommended" in my view isn't strict word enough. Therefore, I think not to change word "restricted", for now.

EDIT DONE!!!

I ignored this correction of Aaron: "Funnels are a conical shaped vessel that has a tube, that is molten to the top of it, and this tube has a delicate truncated end." because this really don't sound logic, that Aaron uses word "funnel" in plural, but the structure of the sentence leaves the same as I wrote. As I know it is not grammatically correct. If you use somekind word in plural the you have to adjust others words accordingly. Am I right? :grin:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 03 February 2010, 00:31:51
I wonder is there any mentor or very experienced Santharian member who could help me with this entry?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 03 February 2010, 02:03:58
Lionhorse, as strange as it may sound, people have been trying to help you. The evidence that exists however, is that you refute their comments with cries of "then tell me how to do it differently". Is it not difficult to give help someone who refuses it?

To add to that, ignoring Stormraven's suggested correction has yet to remedy the problem with your phrase. Let's take a look at it shall we?
Quote
Funnel is a conical shaped vessel that has a tube, that is molten to the top of it, and this tube has a delicate truncated end.
.

The problem is that you're missing something in front of that funnel. Stormraven attempted to resolve this by changing the word to a plural, which removes the need for that something. Any guesses what it might be?

Taking a look at the correct way to write the sentence now:
Quote
A funnel is a conical shaped vessel
.

Another helpful hint. The possessive form of it is not it's, which would be a contraction of it is, but instead "its" (note the lack of apostrophe there).

So this phrase:
Quote
The size of the funnel is determined by it's diameter.
is wrong.

Quote
The size of the funnel is determined by its] diameter.
.
This phrase has been corrected. One of my old english teachers used to drill it into his students that spelling and grammar checkers like Word only caught 60% of all errors. The errors that you seem to be running into would be included in that 60% though, so it might be in your best interest to put your draft through Word (or a similar program) when you go to make changes next.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Seeker on 03 February 2010, 02:30:34
Lionhorse

Regarding the problem with categorization (thick walls, thin walls etc.)  Lets keep this simple.  Remove the categorization of thick walls and thin walls and the categorisation of measuring vessels.  Put all nine of the glass vials, containers etc under one heading glass vessels.  We also could use a glass vessel overview for consistency.   

I imagine this entry will expand greatly over time but I would like to get this basic entry up sooner than later.  If we keep it simple as new ideas come up in the future they can be easily added in the entry.   Here is an outline of what I mean:

Overview of Alchemical Tools

Overview of glass Vessels

GLASS VESSELS
*
*
*
*
*
 
Overview of Procelain Vessels

PORCELAIN VESSELS
*
*
*
*
*

Other Tools of the Alchemist
*
*
*
*


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Seeker on 03 February 2010, 02:39:04
By the way I like that you put links to pictures to show us what these things look like.  They are hard to describe and the links help us understand what you are attempting to describe.  Of course when the entry goes up we will not have those links.  Pictures will be a key ingredient in this entry, that is where Judith and I can lend a hand at some point down the road.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 03 February 2010, 02:42:30
Thank you, Seeker. I'll update the entry soon.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 03 February 2010, 03:42:04
ENTRY EDITED!!!

Oh, by the way, yes, Seeker, those pictures are only as an examples. :grin:

And, Valan, I searched through the grammar mistakes as you adviced using Word, but it showed no mistakes, because I already did that many, many times in the past, but still thank you for an advice!!!  :grin: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 18 February 2010, 20:13:27
Another ENTRY EDIT done!!!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Seeker on 19 February 2010, 01:03:21
This looks much better Lionhorse.  :thumbup: Well done.  +1 Aura  from me for sticking with this.

As I read through the comments and replies in this thread I notice a number of areas where frustrations came out, usially over misunderstanding in the use of English (which I understand is not your native language).  Well I am impressed that you seem to always come back with an apology for the misunderstanding and a nice  :grin: to demonstrate no hard feelings.  This really reflects the spirit we need here.  As always I am very impressed with the work of our members that speak English as a secondary language. 

Art, I propose we do not wait for Judy's comments if she is unable to comment right now.  We can always do an update later when she returns if she sees any glaring problems. I believe Lionhorse has addressed the comments appropriately and will blarrow this entry in a week or so, giving time for any last comments.



Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 19 February 2010, 01:06:06
I'll back Seeker up here.

Lionhorse +1 :thumbup: from me for putting up with the sheer amount of madness. Good job!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 19 February 2010, 05:37:23
I had a look here as well, and have to say that I'm also pretty happy with the reorganisation that tool place here with this entry, Lionhorse! It makes much more sense now the way it is done now and one can find things much easier - plus the descriptions are pretty well done.

Sure, you still suffer a bit under the disease of swallowing articles (are you that hungry when writing? :lol:), and some expressions are definitely not overly English, and I guess there are also a bunch of commas one could simply remove and the text would flow much better. But I guess these are things I can handle when I go through the entry upon integrating it, because it is well researched I think. Even the gnomish names sound quite gnomish - did you come up with them yourself or were they posted somewhere already?

Anyway, this looks pretty good from my point of view as well - also we have a few drawings where we have vials, flasks, meabuls etc., so we might crop some of these pictures in order to illustrate the entry a bit. You have nice schematic pictures included here, which is very much appreciated, so that it is perfectly clear what you're describing, but they're not quite site standard as such ;) Though they can serve artists for reference in later pics, so that we might include something that is described here.

All in all: Really nice job, I'm also for integrating it next update, and I also give you an aura +1 for really trying to get this right!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 19 February 2010, 05:40:22
The entry makes a lot more sense to me now as well Lionhorse!

Well done (+Aura from me!)


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 19 February 2010, 06:35:17
Awww.... thanks guys!!! :grin: :thumbup:

I really tried to take in account all the critic to improve my entry. Thanks to Valan. Without him I couldn't progress and go further. :grin:

About hungry thing.... well, Artimidor, yes, you are right. I'm usually hungry when making an entry!!!  :grin:  I have no idea why. :grin:

About those gnomish namings.... most of them I thought out by myself, reading throughout the latest gnomish vocabulary.

Well... anyway, I would like to thank you all for being so patient with me and that you gave me some new ideas and comments about my entry.  :grin: :thumbup:

By the way, soon I'll post another entry dedicated to an alchemy. And in my next entry I'll describe the apparatus that are used in alchemical workshops/workrooms.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Seeker on 23 February 2010, 05:40:45
Art/Lionhorse

I will certainly offer the details in the Elemene Tabulata  (http://www.santharia.com/books/elemene_tabulata.htm) picture if you find them adequate.  I would recommend a little circle picture be used which links to the larger picture.

Meabul- the container with the yellow liquid
table flask- container with green liquid
vials
Alcohol lamp-crossed out per Lionhorse's explanation below
vial stand

Of course I drew these before the entry, so if they are not a match that's OK.  Perhaps there are better examples already on the site somewhere.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 23 February 2010, 09:06:50
No, no... that drawing is great and suitable enough, I think. I can tell you more that there is also a fastening rod, but only with tripod base not a board base, there is also a metallic ring along with its screw. About alcohol lamp I'm not sure, because it doesn't look like it should look. Probably I forgot to mention about that in my entry. The alcohol lamp is a jar made out of a fire resistant glass. The lamp is 7 nailsbreath in diameter and 4 nailsbreath high. The top opened end of the jar has a narrow neck, that is approximately 1 1/2 nailsbreath in diameter and 1 nailsbreath high, and it is closed by a small metallic lid that has a hole in its center, through which is coming out a thick wick. The wick should be in contact with an alcohol, that is inside the jar. In order to make the wick burn, you should wait approximately one day to let the wick absorb the alcohol, that is inside the jar, and when you'll try to light the wick up, it will produce a flame, because of absorbed alcohol, that ignites once being in a contact with a fire. The alcohol lamp has a small addition that is made out of a glass, but can also be made from a metal. This addition looks like a simple glass that should be placed over the lamp in bottom-up position after the work is done, in order to make the fire stop burning. There are no other flame extinguishing methods, because this is considered to be the most safest way how to extinguish the flames of the alcohol lamp.

Round bottomed flask, vials, vial stand and table flask are perfect!!! :grin: :thumbup:

I EDITED my entry about the alcohol lamp!!!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 24 February 2010, 04:10:59
A "Rounded Bottom Flask" is also clearly visible in the Golgnomes pic (http://www.santharia.com/pictures/eshoh/golgnomes.htm), here we have it shown very nicely, so I guess a crop of that pic would fit very well here, as there's no other picture element in the way :)

Anyway, I'll see what I can do to add some of the suggested images! I'm sure Judy had mortar and pestle somewhere in a pic, maybe I'll find that one as well!


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 24 February 2010, 07:38:09
This is just great, Artimidor!!!  :grin: :thumbup:
I like all these alchemy pics. So, who were the artists? Seeker and ...?


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 24 February 2010, 07:54:32
If you look at the bottom of the description of a picture (or at the very bottom in the right corner for an entry) there's always the artists (or author(s)) name mentioned, usually with a link unless they're not a member yet.


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 24 February 2010, 20:06:19
Oh, I thought it might be so. :grin: Thanks, Valan. :thumbup:


Title: Re: Basic Alchemical Tools
Post by: Lionhorse on 27 February 2010, 08:31:47
I have searched for some pictures, but found only this one where is shown mortar and pestle, but in very low quality, I think.

So, I think that the entry is ready. But what about pictures?