Santharian Development

Since there is no deal description fo the Caelerethian moon, and the Ter'ei'Vikh are so heavilly associated with it, would there be much objection if i were to define its features and cycles?

Be forewarned, the idea i have in mind is rather unusual, and will change several things you though you knew about the world! (because you made assumptions that covered certain gaps in our information)

What exactly are your plans Mr. Mira?  Will it still wax and wane every 28 days for example?  (Or is it every 30 in santh?)  On a monthly basis anyway :P

Make sure to check with Talia!  :cool:

I think it is extremely important that a moon concept gets finally up on the site. Personally I'm pretty much indifferent to the exact details, as I tend towards more fantastic approaches and bend it the way we need it later in case we need it, but this doesn't correspond with everyone else's approach. But whenever there's a chance to get that up and it has the support of several people, it should be done. If your concept gets through that discussion, I'd be happy to accept the outcome.

I don't know what is already set in stone here, but perhaps the cycle of the moon can coincide and compete with that of the sun in much the same way as the vessel of Silpion does with that of Laurelin's fruit in the mythology of Middle-Earth. Or more accurately, the way it did before Manwë captured and controlled the two.

I have formulated a rather elaborate system involving three rotational cycles, a myth of the Twelve as to how it came to be, and several (rather wrong, but reasonable) speculations of scolars on its composition and nature.

It WILL wax and wane. But only once per year. It will also have a weekly and monthly cycle. I'm awaiting a go ahead! or stay away from my precious! from Talia before trying to make it all into text that other people would understand. Its a bit confusing to myself as well.

Mira, there is no need to check back with me, I have laid down my cosmological responsibilities. I won't argue anymore for what I think is the better approach - which is, Art, not less fantastic as your "Let's do it first and think/bend later". (It is not a "Yes we Can", for that approach does not contradict my way of developing). It is mainly your site and your world and if you don't appreciate my approach, I won't fight for it. Judy is the same opinion as you, and as the two most important people think so, why should I try to convince others? I don't feel the need to do so anymore.

Mira, tell us more about your three rotational cycles (weekly, monthly?), for until now I see only several ??? in my head.

If I think it makes still sense, I write you a list (in the form of questions) what for possibilities you have (no one ever thinks of) how the moon (I assume ow it is a somewhat solid or gaseous object) could move in the world of Caelereth. From there you can always choose what you like, skip what irritates you, neglect what is too complicated OR add new things.

Oh, i know it can, physically, rotate the way i want it.

The downside of this is that at least in our universe, would never do so because a rapidly spinning rotation axis is unstable and loses to much energy in a very short time.

Then again, Caelereth's sun shouldn't be able to function either. I'll try to formulate something coherent from my explanation to Decipher sometime soon.

*passes the idea to Talia*

Miss Talia is the Cosmology expert, so I give her the official stamp of overseer on this one.

Remember also that whatever you write about the moon will affect the tides!

....

I dont see why it would HAVE to affect the tides....

It should affect SOMETHING...if not the tides, how about weather conditions, humidity, gravity (then everyone will gain weight at a certain time of the month, not just women  :D ) or behavior (do we have the concept of "lunatic", as someone affected by the moon?)  Anyway, that would be at least as interesting as tides, if not more so.


Alysse

Well, it would be nice if it did, since all the maritime armillary discs I wrote up depend on the motion of the moon! So, yeah, if  the moon at least has some sort of maritime usefulness, it would make my life easier.

@Mira: If you decide against maritime involvement for the moon, please tell me so that I can revise my entry. And if there is any special info you've come up with regarding the relationship (or lack thereof) between the moon and sailors, I'd be much obliged for the information.

I think Alysse's mention of 'lunatics' is a valid point, Mira. It would aid me greatly in a future (major) entry if certain quarters of society were affected by the moon's actions/rotation/phases.

Pretty please?

Don't make me use the trifle on you.............again.

Trifle?


Ooo, I LIKE trifle!  Especially with extra custard sauce, yum!   :D

Mira has connection issues, right? Hmmm, maybe he could work offline on his ideas? ;)

I could, if i would have ben able to view these comments :P

Tides; I plan to make the Moon a creation of Baveras in the mythological part of the entry, as opposing the Sun made by Foiros. There is a good story there, trust me.

Other Effects; Well, most certainly! The moon will be the reason for the changes in temperature we know as "seasons", and i'm pretty sure i will come up with a whole phantasmagorium of other things to link to it.

Oh, what a great idea, could be mine!  ;)


Erm, no, you need a good argument to convince me here! The seasons are here because the sun moves away from the disk, that is the most logical approach for you can experience that (If you move away from the fire it gets colder).  I don't recall though, in hoe many entry this is pinned down already.

Your Vik could of course have another belief, as they don't see much of the sun, right?


Well, I would be interested in the movement of the moon first, not what the people believe, for that can be manyfold.

Sun entry

Wel i an give you a little glimpse of my idea; The moon is rather like an anti-sun.

You see, when Foiros made the Sun, we, according to our legends, made a mistake in how much heat it should bring, and the disk scorched and life perished under the heat. His first solution was to place it further away from the disk, which resulted in more or less the situation we hae now.

But, that didn't do the trick yet!

So, as her seas dried out and her children were slowly deprived of a home, Baveras was the first of the Twelve to notice the sun was still to hot. yada yada yada lots of story here yada yada. And she made the Moon. Which radiates cold on it's silver half (and only there, for wise Baveras was able to determine exectly how much cold was needed to make the world inhabitable for all of the Twelve's children). Now, as the silver half of the moon is visible completely during mid-winter, and absent completely during mid-summer in my rotation scedule, it seems she has been succesful. During summer, the moon's cold side is hidden from Caelereth, giving the Disk the warmth it needs from Injera, while during winter it is in full view, counteracting the heat with cold, untill the stored heat of summer is depleted and a health amount of cold has permeated the disk, after which it rotates again to let the sun break down the sold supply and heat things up.

So, all in all, the combination of sun 'wobble' and moon rotation gives us seasons.

Or, that would be what the Caelerethians make of it.

NURSE!.....He's out of bed again.

I am very interested in this topic as it has a major effect on the look and feel of pictures I may draw.  The moon effects so much.  I don’t intend to dictate anything but I would like to offer up some thought provoking questions:


1.  Are we resolved that there should only be one moon?  Even in our own universe not many planets have only a single moon.
2.  How big is the moon from the Santharian perspective (for example in comparison to the earth moon)?  Does the moon stay the same size from the Santharian perspective all year around.  Perhaps it is on an elliptical orbit.
3.  What color is the moon?  I see half of it is Silver.  Does it stay the same color all year around?  Can the moon be an unusual color like red or blue?
4.  How bright (Luminous) is the moon/moons?  This will effect night vision and light perspective in depictions of night.
5.  Is the moon/moons visible in the daytime sky?

We should remember this is a fantasy world.  Not everything has to make sense under Earth Astronomy laws.  Or at least the people of Santharia do not need to understand them using Earth Astronomy laws. 

@Seeker: Currently all is open again, don't know, which "facts" are still considered as "facts". But Mira wants to take a go at the moon. And yes, all your questions were once considered.

@Mira: You have some explanations for Santharia, and not even convincing ones (sorry, I will explain it later), but what about Aeruillin and the north?

You know, I'm the one who would needs to see the idea behind the whole thing first, so could you not be a bit more precise about rotation (around his axis) and path velocity? (How long does he take to complete one circle?)

Is this regarded to be the Gospel truth? And how do you factor in the differant climate zones, e.g., always cold up in the far north, always warm in the south? Is the disc tilted?  :huh:

There will be just one moon.

Assuming we want it to be more than a luminous pretty thing in the sky, i will try to tie it in with the already existing Injeran mythology and cosmology, to act as a counterpart (much like we know it to be in earthen mythology). Tlaia, you opinions and ideas are more than welcome to steer me in the right direction, right now i'm just going freeform here.

I will not be having the time to write an elaborate piece on this for a while, as i have a load of school stuff to do and little free time to do it in, so dont expect much in thyat department. Of course, i will try to answer specific questions.

Well, to be able to steer you in the one or other direction, I need to know your basic ideas, how it moves - not necessarily from the developers point, but what the people (in Santharia e.g. ) see.

But, no need to hurry, I have to do other stuff first anyway  :)

I'm interested in this as well..... being so far north, thus closer to the moon, I was thinking that the Remusians would revere the moon more so than the sun... so... :rolleyes:

Out of fear? They do need the warmth of the sun nevertheless, so, what if the sun is jealous and abandons those who do not revere her as she wants to? Could be a northern answer to the year of darkness.

Not so much out of fear... They take a strong pride in the fact that they can survive in that environment.  Probably more than one Remusian (if not from every Ice Tribe) who would secretly like Ice to cover the entire world and thin the herd, as it were :rolleyes:

I have a question here! Has science really advanced to the point in Caelereth that their would be a universal concept on what the moon is, or would each people, and area have their own beliefs about the moon and its properties? As far as I know we are trying to create a medieval-like world here, and solidly scientific based ideas on what the sun and moon are, did not exist until well into the scientific revolution. Therefore; to confine moon ideas to a single entry might be too limiting. In all reasonableness each tribe or race could come with its own sub-entry on what the moon is in their own mythology. The most isolated of these groups could have some very fun and appealing ideas indeed!

Keep Dreaming,
Mifer

P.S. The same could be said about the sun.

Mifer, you are right, there could be lot of different myths about the sun, the moon etc. However, they should not contradict each other in basic things like if the moon is seen on the other side of the disk or on the same side like the sun.

We had a 'model' of our cosmology 'facts' already I created several years ago, which laid out the movement of the sun (formed after the initially invented elven myth) and moon seen from the developer's point of view. From there very many different myths and explanations could be developed. (Mira just starts with ONE possibility.)

However, as my approach of "developer's view first" and then "How appears it to the people" and "How interpret the people what they see" is not favoured and as some people found it necessary that my 'model '(I thought is "canon" at least in the basic) should be put up for voting after so many years, just because I had not yet found the time to do an decent entry , I just skipped it.

So we know currently not much more, than what you can find in the Santharian elven myths and the sun entry. I'm not even sure, if the moon is now really on the other side of the disk, but as this was Art's idea, it might be the case.

Well, I would agree that we need a "hard truth" to the moon, and from there, each tribe/race can have their own mythology and creation theories

And rest assured Talia, there will, in fact, be an 'absolute truth' on the moon, as most of its properties can easilly be discerned from Caelereth.

For artistical purposes Seeker, you can simply assume that all terran phases of the moon will be available at some point during the lunar year, as well as all possible rotated versions of those phases. The Moon's default colouration is silvery white, but i will incorporate the 'omen moons' with colours like yellow/orange, red, blue and so on as well, if your artistic mind needs something specific (also, they make for great myths).

Oh :D  A Blue Moon for the Remusians.  I like that idea.

Red Moon is also significant in Tiquaitan Astrological Divination...