Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Places and Map Design => Topic started by: Fox on 15 September 2009, 16:01:16



Title: The Dunraich of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 15 September 2009, 16:01:16
Here's the state entry for the Duchy of Thalambath, given a culture-based name as Arti requested. Dunraich is a Thalambathian word for 'kingdom', though I'm not sure if I'm entirely set with it yet.


The territory now should fit with Talia's desires, I think. (btw Talia, don't worry about commenting on this if you don't have time. I don't mind letting it sit for awhile, I just wanted to update it to my newest version and get it out of the 'WIP' state.)


Note that the government section is fairly politically sophisticated. I wanted the Dunraich to feel more bureaucratic and, more importantly, different from the usual fantasy feudal governments. I reason that Thalambath has had plenty of time to develop a fairly complex political and economic system considering that most of its citizens are educated and the Dunraich has existed in a comparatively untouched state for nearly 9,000 years (of course it's had its own civil wars and so on, but not nearly the amount of border changes and government takeovers that occurred in most of the other human nations). Plus the current government of the state is only about 400 years old, and when I work on the history, the development of the government over the centuries is going to be one of the key factors.

------

The Dunraich of Thalambath

The Dunraich of Thalambath is one of the oldest civilizations in the United Kingdom of Santharia. It has existed as an independent sovereignty since near the War of the Chosen, and as a member of the Stratanian Kingdom and eventually the United Kingdom of Santharia since then. At the present day, the Dunraich is an economically powerful nation that has benefitted greatly from its succession as the major trading power in the south. It has directly assisted in the funding of Strata’s reemergence as a trade city, operates a trade franchise of its own, handles the provincial governing of the Truban region, and is the primary military power in the region.

The Dunraich of Thalambath is commonly known as the Duchy of Thalambath in more northern provinces of Santharia, but it still uses the Ancient Kaipheran word of Dunraich for official papers and representations. Though Dunraich simply translates to “state” or “kingdom” in Tharian, it has evolved in the current time to refer to the nation as a whole.

The Dunraich is known for its strict regime, and the preeminence of its mage class in the upper echelons of society—a trait that not even Ximax can claim. The Dunraich also sits atop the ruins of one of the most powerful empires of ages long past, Astár’Nuvíc, and it is thus a fountain of lore, ranging from the arcane, to historical, to darker occult secrets.

While the Dunraich has long suffered from internal unrest, particularly during the early periods of its history, it currently presents a strongly united front. Its businesses are known for their fierce competition with one another, but they work together to keep foreign markets from disturbing the internal balance, keeping Thalambathian-owned enterprises at the top of the food chain inside the state.

Location
The Dunraich lies at the western edge of the Ráhaz’Dáth desert in the Truban province of Santharia. Their territory extends from the western shores to just east of the Cari’Cari Oasis near the center of the Ráhaz’Dáth desert. From the north, Thalambathians count the edge of the Nirmenith Mountains as their border, and a series of fortresses and walls north of the Yar’Dangs makes up their southern border. The area of desert directly to the east and south of the capital city of Thalambath, terminating at the Yar’Dangs and the coast of the Burning Sea, is known as the Golden Reach.

Description
The Dunraich is characterized by large, empty sand dunes, with a few cities spread throughout the edges where sustainable life is possible. And yet, the dunes appear more civilized than the rest of the Ráhaz’Dáth. Tall, dark stone pikes thrust out of the dunes every stral or two, marking the routes on the horizon. Roads as well stretch from these pillars, though these are frequently covered in sand and many have been greatly weathered by time. From time to time the characteristic dome huts of Shendar families might be seen nestled snuggly amidst the endless desert.

//Pictures of Land: Ingeborg 31 and 14
"The majestic golden lands of the Dunraich of Thalambath."
(http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/31_small.jpg) (http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/31.jpg)

(http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/14_small.jpg) (http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/14.jpg)

Appearing at one of the cities presents a stark image of majesty. Dark reddish-orange and black buildings rise out of the sands, as if one had stumbled across an unmapped mountain range, only to realize that the shapes are far too straight and geometrical. Each building seems dwarfed by yet another building, though distinguishing any two buildings apart is difficult, as little beyond their size and perhaps the sparse customizations on the roofs separates them. One almost gets the feeling that they have stumbled across a wall, and, indeed, many of the buildings are attached to each other, with arching bridges crossing over the streets below.

And a site reserved only for the capital cities of Thalambath and Ankhat, one finds their eyes immediately drawn to the towering structures that shade even the monolithic stone shapes beneath them. Marrasquean manors, built of the richest nor’sidian stone, reach towards the sky, yet ward it away as if the wind were a demon by the sharp spikes and gruesome statues that ring the edges of these majestic towers. And in the distance, dwarfing even these dark buildings, rises the Norong’Sorno volcano, throwing out clouds of white and grey dust into the air—visible even from hundreds of strals away.

//DEVELOPMENT MAP:
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8480/thalambathterritory.jpg)

note that the northern contested area should be a bit smaller than is shown, I haven't gotten around to editing this map yet but it's the most up to date based on Talia and my talks//

Important Locations. Though Thalambath is the largest city within the Dunraich, there are several smaller but equally vital townships within its borders. Many of these are the domains of wealthy Thalam who decided to carve out a section of the desert that they could do with as they please without the constant threat of political rivalries over their shoulders. These settlements generally continue to rely on Thalambath for sustenance and support, though some manage to eke out enough for themselves through efficient use of the land around them. Each formal town or outpost is ruled by a Vesal-Viseur, who has been granted the right to the city through favour currying with the Royal Viseur of Thalambath.

* The Capital City of Thalambath
Thalambath is the capital of the nation of the same name and is one of the oldest and largest cities on the Sarvonian continent. It is also one of the most secure, with a large and well-trained city watch. Supposedly, so low is its crime rate that even the Templars of the Black Pearl, who were rumored to have a high level operative placed in every major city in Santharia, refused to operate here due to the risk involved. Thalambath has been the capital of the Dunraich of the same name since its formation from the ruins of the ancient Kaizoumetran town of Merioch, and has since become the capital of the Truban province as a whole. Within the state, Thalambath is sometimes referred to as “Capital City”, to distinguish it from the Thalambathian state as a whole.

* The City of Ankhat
Ankhat is frequently considered a part of the capital city, but is in fact a city all of its own. Only a day’s ride from Thalambath, Ankhat is the second most populated settlement in Thalambath, and for good reason. It is the breadbasket of the state, as it lies on the western peninsula, on the ancient dried lava flows of the Norong’Sorno, which provide excellent growing soil. Rain is abundant here too (for a desert), so most of Thalambath’s farms are located here. Ankhat has the most political influence with the capital city of any other city in the region, and if not for its lack of a suitable harbour, would rival Thalambath for the position of capital of the nation (and thus the province). Ankhat is also a watchpost over the Truban Gulf, and is known for its lighthouse, which serves as both a garrison to watch for hostile fleets as well as a guide for trading ships from Nybelmar and the north.

* The Township of Bezalhur
Bezalhur is the third largest town in the Dunraich, though that doesn't mean much as it is dwarfed by both. Located to the direct west of the Norong’Sorno volcano, at the edge of its slopes, it supports itself with farming in the region but, most importantly, harvests wood from the dark forest that lies on the slopes of the volcano. Bezalhur is constantly in threat of the volcano, more so than any other Thalambath settlement, and the city has been forced to evacuate several times due to the threat of an eruption.

* The Fortress of Eastwall
Eastwall is a large fortress-town located at the eastern border of the state, settling on the edge of the dunes of the Golden Reach. Regularly supplied by the capital, Eastwall is utterly dependent on outside sustenance. Eastwall is deliberately placed in an unhospitable area, as it serves as both a prison and a military base. Prisoners who might manage to escape can hope only to die quickly in the dunes, while a treacherous army will be pacified soon after supply shipments are cut off. Those trying to slip into Thalambath unnoticed and without the proper Travel Coins are transferred to Eastwall, where they are imprisoned within its worn dungeons and interrogated.

* The Border Keep of Southwatch
Southwatch lies about a few hours ride south of Eastwall, near the coast of the Aetryam Sea. It sits squarely on the edge of Thalambath’s borders, along the road south to Strata. It is sparsely-manned, serving these days as a simple customs post. Nearly all trade from Strata passes through Southwatch, where they are documented, commissioned Travel Coins, and given their designated routes through Thalambath’s lands. Southwatch was formerly a military outpost designed to alert Eastwall and Thalambath of any military incursions coming from Strata, though its presence is more benign now than in past times.

* The Border Keep of Northpoint
Northpoint is the most northern settlement of Thalambath, and though it is named a keep, it is little more than a tower overlooking a small mining town. Northpoint sits at the edge of the coast at the most northwestern portion of the Lands of Pain, directly under the shadow of the Nirmenith Mountains. Few citizens live here, only a few soldiers and the miners and excavators of the mountains.

* The Golden Reach
The Golden Reach is the name of the dunes that lie to the east of the Norong’Sorno volcano and before the Makadi Gadi Salt Pans, running from the edge of the Nirmenith Mountains to the Yar’dangs. Though Thalambath claims dominion over the territory, its lack of value insures that the Shendar remain the real owners. They are rich golden plains, with little apart from sand and dust. However, one can find Thalambathian markers and roads here, which, depending on the political climate and economics of the time, are swept and pressed in order to allow caravans to cross the desert.

//DEVELOPMENT NOTE
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/535/goldenreach.jpg)
//

* The Lands of Pain
The Lands of Pain are almost entirely uninhabited. A single small outpost at the eastern shore is all that lies here, where a scant mining operation harvests the dark sand and stone here for construction in the southern settlements. Considering the lack of resources and the danger of the heat, there are frequent deaths here and so the materials are very expensive. The Lands of Pain are known in Thalambath however more for the rich tombs that dot the mostly empty and foreboding landscape, built here out of the dark stone.

//Picture of Lands of Pain: Ingeborg 16
"The harsh night sky of the Lands of Pain, bathed in red by the fires of the volcanoes."
(http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/16_small.jpg) (http://stuff.santharia.com/ingeborg/16.jpg)

* The Nirmenith Mountains
The mountains are the northern edge of the Thalambathian state. Mostly uninhabited, there are a few quarries here, particularly Northpoint, which mine iron, gold, and other precious metals, or excavate the ancient dwarven ruins here. Goods found here sent down to Ankhat or Thalambath or north to Varcopas by a port (which is little more than a couple of wooden docks and tied up ships) at the coast.

Coat of Arms
The Thalambathian coat of arms is a bright red or yellow background bordered on right and left by a black border with a small white line running through it near the inner edge. At the center of this design is a multi-diamond—a large, white diamond, which serves as a border for the five interior diamonds within. Small black and white borders surround each of the inner diamonds, each of which is a nor’sidian black. The diamond in the absolute center of the other four, however, is a bright red. At the outside of this central diamond shape are three more, smaller diamonds, similar to the center ones—all three along the underside of the main shape. These diamonds represent the sovereignty of Thalambath—the Seven and the Royal Viseur. This symbol is known as the “One and Seven”.

The coat of arms is almost always featured as a banner, flown as an elongated design running down the sides of buildings, clamped at the top and bottom. Usually, multiple flags are spaced evenly along the full side of the building, or there will be only two flags that border the doorway to the building.

The main background colour of the coat of arms changes based on certain conditions within the duchy. A yellow background indicates peace or citizenship, and is the most common flag displayed around Thalambath’s territories. A red background indicates royalty or sovereignty, if used within a Templum or barracks, or a state of war if all city flags within the state are changed from yellow to red.

When on shields, the coat of arms frames the entire shield in the outside border, rather than just the tops or sides, and always has a red background, with the One and Seven symbol in the center. Also, when shown as a square flag, generally from the backs of Thalambathian ships, the borders appear on the top and bottom, rather than the sides.

A simpler variant of the One and Seven symbol for smaller ornamentations is usually just a white diamond with the eight black ones, on a yellow or red backround, without any complex bordering.

At the Black Temple, the interior red diamond is coloured a bright emerald green, in homage to the Thalambath’s Heart gemstone that lay within the ancient monument.

//DEVELOPMENT EXAMPLES:
Royal/war colours (banner):
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1445/thalambathflag06warsmal.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1445/thalambathflag06warsmal.jpg)

Civilian/peace colours (square flag):
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5548/thalambathflag06civilia.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5548/thalambathflag06civilia.jpg)
//

People
The Dunraich is populated by the native Kaizranians, Stratanians, Shendar, and smaller amounts of foreign tribes. Kaizranian heritage is considered prestigious, though this sentiment has been decreasing over the centuries.

As a whole, the Kaizranian people generally look like Stratanians. They are, however, rather tall, reaching up to 2 peds, and their skin is often of a darker hue. They have dark eyes and hair, and most wear their hair cropped short, rarely longer than the shoulders, even for women.

People of the Dunraich are generally known for being very disciplined. Almost all are educated, and much of the upper class is comprised of the Thalam wizards and their families, who tend to occupy powerful political positions.

Most citizens are highly competitive. They are fiercely nationalistic, and are raised to be willing to make personal sacrifices to benefit the greater community. This often makes Thalambathians appear arrogant and haughty to other tribes and races, occasionally leading to prejudice.

[See the Kaizranian Men entry for further details.]

State Organization
The Dunraich is run at its head by an organization known as the Presidium. The Presidium comprises the Seven of Thalambath, who have ultimate dictatorial power over the state, and the Royal Viseur, who is generally charged with handling state affairs, including overseeing the Truban province as a whole. While the Viseur has assumed full dictatorial control over the Dunraich, this is generally curbed by the Seven as well as by the political influence of the Templums and the individual Vesal-Viseurs, who rule the other vesals (fiefs) within the state.

Under the Presidium come the Regional Council, the Vesal-Viseurs, and then the Templums, of which Thalambath society is divided up. Each controls a different aspect of society, and most are run by Thalam Wizards, which are known as Pryusi.

This results in a highly regimented, state-controlled society, with strict and harsh laws in place to prevent abuse by the many groups and individuals who have access to ultimate power in their jurisdictions.

The Dunraich’s government is generally considered to be particularly complex in comparison to the rest of the Santharian Kingdom. Some supportive scholars have argued that it is a highly advanced form of government, and that the necessary level of organization to achieve it is a testament to the sophistication of the Dunraich. They argue that all provinces, when sufficiently evolved, will eventually develop governments similar to Thalambath’s. Detractors however state that it is too complex and expensive for a larger community, and that it only works in Thalambath due to its small size and self-sufficiency—an argument that seems to be supported by the fact that Thalambath has knowingly avoided implementing its system of government even in the other duchies of its own province.

The Presidium. The Presidium is the group of eight individuals at the top of the Thalambathian food chain. It refers to both the Seven and Royal Viseur, though in practice the Royal Viseur is the primary figure.

* The Seven.
The Seven are the most powerful group in Thalambath. Their position was in existence even before the city of Thalambath existed, when the humans of the region were just barely recovering from the disastrous eruption of the Norong’Sorno volcano that obliterated the empire before it. The Seven are aloof and mysterious, and there are many rumours about them. Some believe they are immortal, beings of the Era of Sorcery who have used their powerful magic to sustain themselves for millennia. Some believe the Seven are chosen out of modern Thalam when the time is right, during which their former identities are all but stripped and they seal themselves away with their peers. Regardless of which, the Seven possess some of the most powerful arcane abilities in the world. On their rare public displays of their skills, they have supposedly performed spells that even the greatest archmagi at Ximax would be unable to match.

The Seven rarely intervene in political affairs, save on rare occasions to curb over-enthusiastic Templums or Viseurs. Though they have absolute power, they only tend to exercise their right to veto. A prominent example of this was in ??? a.S., when the Seven prevented Royal Viseur Nafras Helm from seceding the Dunraich from the United Kingdom of Santharia when half of the old Stratanian Kingdom was given to the new province of Brendolan.

The Seven have never been seen at a Council of Linked Hands, and it is believed that the only time they have met a Santharian King was in 0 b.S., when Santhros the Wise retrieved the Keep’s Heart from the Black Castle, where they swore fealty to the new King.

The only person who semi-regularly encounters the Seven is the Royal Viseur, who consults with them over running the state. The Royal Viseur is chosen by the Seven, but cannot be removed except for a majority vote, albeit there have been very few occasions where this has happened. The Seven are also responsible for approving the appointment of Vesal-Viseurs and Grand Pryusi, and in approving the decision to elevate a business to the position of Templum.

It is unknown what the Seven look like, and no one knows their names. They are considered gods-on-Caelereth by the Thalambathians, and are always treated as a single group—there is always the Seven, never a Seven.

* The Royal Viseur.
The Royal Viseur, also known as the Tristin, is the executive head of the Dunraich. He is in charge with overseeing the Templums, to the point of deciding when a Templum is to be created or abolished, as well as with the appointment of Vesal-Viseurs and Pryusi. The Royal Viseur is also charged with the running of the capital city, which includes the duties of running the Truban province as a whole and conducting foreign relations with the greater Santharian Kingdom. He is both Truban Thane and Thalambathian Duke in one, by Santharian ranks.

The Royal Viseur is in charge with passing national or capital laws. These laws must be followed by all the Templums, and supersede any local or Templum laws. The Seven can veto them, but this is rare. He is also in charge of allocating funds to the Templums for large products or occasionally to bail out a faltering Templum. The Royal Viseur can also in times of crisis or national need allocate emergency resources and control to a Templum—IE in threat of naval war the Royal Viseur can grant the Templum of Sail the ability to nationalize all assets necessary to the building and running of a wartime fleet. This ability extends even to the Templum of the Sword, though in practice this is impossible. The Seven have always vetoed any attempt by Royal Viseurs to grant the Templum of the Sword the right to nationalize all military forces. This has prevented Royal Viseurs from currying favour with the Templum and then giving them emergency powers and using that favour to supplant the Seven and take over the country by force.

Royal Viseurs are almost always Thalam, though there have been some rare exceptions. The citizens of the populace generally do not like non-Thalam Viseurs, however, as they are generally encouraged to believe in the divine power of the wizards. Most non-Thalam Viseurs have kept this fact a secret for most of their reign, though a few openly proclaim the fact and some have managed to gain widespread support. Also, Royal Viseurs are almost always male, though this is more by the lack of opportunity for females in high power than any laws, and it is not known whether or not the Seven share the chauvinistic ideals of the citizenship. There has been only a single case of a female Royal Viseur in the history of the Dunraich.

Royal Viseurs have also never voted for the elevation of female Thanes in the Council of Linked Hands to the position of Santhranna—such rulers invariably have the Truban vote against them (much to the chagrin of the honourary Shendar seat in the Council). On the other hand, Royal Viseurs almost never put themselves forward as candidates to the Santhran throne, either. As reportedly said by Royal Viseur Adoeljer Deuras in a private conversation with his advisor, “It serves not the Kaizran race to rule as king among the degenerate barbarians of the north”. Deuras' reputation was greatly damaged when this comment became public.

The position of the Royal Viseur is its own Templum, known as the Royal Throne. The Royal Throne mostly consists of delegated positions that are in charge with managing specific areas of state need at the behest of the Viseur, such as taxes or foreign trade relations. The Royal Throne, like all Templums, has its own watch, but the Royal Throne forces are known as the Templar Knights. Unlike all other Templums, the Templar Knights are the only guard unit that are allowed to arrest and prosecute Thalam. This gives them great power and prestige, and they are a vaunted position among the watch.

The current Royal Viseur is Hairech Staufler.

The Regional Council. The Regional Council has its origin in the old Council of Stratania and is the assembly of Vesal-Viseurs and delegates from Strata and Varcopas, in charge with the management of the cities and territories of the Dunraich and the Truban province. The Regional Council generally only gathers to discuss matters of import that affect each of their lands within the Dunraich and the province, such as when a new law is passed or when there are disputes of territory or other matters.

* The Vesal-Viseurs
The Vesal-Viseurs are the heads of each city or land within the Dunraich. They are the governors of their fiefs within the state, which are known as vesals, and are appointed to their position by the Royal Viseur. National laws and the dictates of the Presidium bind each Vesal-Viseur. They can create local laws for their territories, though these are sometimes subject to approval by the Royal Viseur.

The charge of the Vesal-Viseurs is mostly in regulating the subsidiary Templums in their respective vesals. This includes deciding whether to provide funding should a local Templum operation become financially at risk. Some vesals might have a substantial Templum influence, while other, less important lands might only have a single Templum to concern themselves with. In addition, Vesal-Viseurs must maintain a standing army in their vesals.

Like the Royal Viseur, the Vesal-Viseurs can bestow emergency powers to the subsidiary Templums in their territories. Unlike the capital Templums, these emergency resources are only on a vesal-wide level.

To the contrary of popular belief, Vesal-Viseurs do not divide up the land in their vesals, like Santharian Gravens. This is the role of the Templums that have stake in the land, and the Vesal-Viseur is merely in charge of funding and regulating these Templums and settling disputes. It is up to the Vesal-Viseur, however, to allow a new Templum to stake a claim in his territory.

Each Vesal-Viseur is a Thalam. Most are personal contacts with the Royal Viseur, and earned their positions through winning his favour.

Ever since the Truban province joined the Santharian Kingdom, there has also been a Vesal-Viseur for the capital vesal, known as the Executor. In the Regional Council, he is charged with mediating disputes and to relate the outcome of meetings to the Royal Viseur. Additionally, when the Royal Viseur is on leave to a meeting of the Council of Linked Hands or other foreign duties, the Executor is in charge of running the capital vesal, the Dunraich, and the Truban province as a whole.

Each Vesal-Viseur, like the Royal Viseur, has a branch of the Royal Throne at his service. However, the Templar Knights remain under the control of the capital Royal Throne, and so Vesal-Viseurs can be arrested by their own bodyguards if they break the law.

The Templums. The Templums are where the majority of actual state government, law enforcing, and general livelihood is run, ever since the Stauhur Revolutions in 1,238 a.S. Templums are essentially state organizations that are in charge of regulating the land and companies under their districts. All parts of society are divided up between the Templums, which are in fierce economical competition with each other. Each Templum owns a plethora of subsidiary businesses, which own their own smaller businesses, and each business owns its workers. Land or city districts are divided up between the Templums, and each Templum is charged with most of the government processes involved in their land or district. They provide land and education to their worker families, finance and regulate the various ventures under their control, and are charged with organizing their own guard force.

Templums are mostly headquartered in the capital city. The Templum of Tilling, however, is headquartered in Ankhat, where the majority of the farms are located, while the Templum of the Sword is headquartered in Eastwall. In the vesals and townships where the Templum is not headquartered, a smaller regulatory body can be found. These are essentially smaller ventures themselves, but which stand at the top of the pecking order in the other areas. They, like the Templum headquarter, are in charge of dividing up land between the smaller businesses and worker families. Not every Templum is located in every town, as they only operate in areas where they have sufficient resources for their field of expertise. However, every Templum has at least one embassy in every town, where their products can be delivered and then marketed to the surrounding ventures. If a Templum wishes to open up a larger operation in a new town, they must get approval by the Vesal-Viseur of that region, as well as having to pay a substantial startup cost, as they must buy land that is currently owned by another Templum.

As a matter of good business, the Templums have as much a responsibility towards its workers as the workers have towards their jobs. They are responsible for providing jobs, homes, and education to their workers, in return for the dedicated labour, as the workers perform the jobs required of them as well as provide children to replace them in the Templum’s labour force.

Each Templum tends to handle a specific area of business, though their child businesses provide support services that are not directly related to the primary business. For instance, the Templum of Sail primarily handles the construction and sale of ship hulls and the like, but will also have its stake in completely unrelated businesses in the Waterfront of the capital, where it is based, like small food shops. Essentially, on the land in which a Templum is based, all of the businesses belong to that Templum, even if that Templum’s primary market is a specific field.

This relates even to joint ventures with other Templums. For instance, the Templum of Trade has a small regulatory company in the Waterfront. The Templum of Sail owns the land, building, and workers of this operation, and all its profits and assets belong to the Templum. However, the venture is charged with overseeing trade in the Waterfront and directing larger ventures to Eltar Square if they grow too large. While this might seem to be economically damaging to the Templum of Sail, the Templum of Trade pays them a substantial cut of the profits of any business that is moved to Eltar, plus, any profits the company makes off of regulating trade that happens solely inside of the Waterfront all goes to the Templum of Sail.

Every smaller business within a Templum is allocated a portion of that Templum’s resources for their specific market. They are also required to provide for the larger Templum as a whole when they are successful. Competition between the subsidiary businesses is encouraged, so as to drive innovation and open new markets. Families are also free to open their own ventures on behalf of their parent Templum, provided they have the assets and market for the operation to be successful.

While the businesses are limited to the land of their Templum, their products aren’t. Each Templum and its smaller ventures sell their products to other areas within the Dunraich or outside of the state. There is constant competition between the Templums over markets, and just because the Templum of Tilling might be the primary supplier of foodstuffs does not mean they aren’t having to actively compete against the Templums of Sail or Trade over the sale of foodstuffs to the populace. If the Templum of Trade is offering lower prices on food to the other Templums than the Templum of Tilling, resulting in less of a market for their own products, it doesn’t matter how much of the farmland they control, they are forced to cut back, develop new, more efficient methods of farming, and/or lower prices. The only time that competition is curbed is during times of crisis. A Templum may be permitted to nationalize all assets of its primary function if ordered to by the Royal Viseur. If there is a famine, the Templum of Tilling could be allowed to nationalize all businesses and trade related to the supply of foodstuffs, in order to allow them to more efficiently regulate and ration the supply of food. In order to prevent huge price increases from the monopoly though, in these situations the Regional Council and the Royal Viseur directly regulate the Templum, usually through a state-appointed Archwizard, or Grand Pryus. In a war, this might mean the Templum of Sail for instance has to provide its hulls and ships free of cost to the Navy, though they will be compensated for their work by the state.

The Royal Throne is considered a Templum, but it is above all other Templums and can encourage them to direct their resources towards certain state-desired goals. This is usually done by granting benefits or lowering taxes to ventures working at the behest of the state. The Royal Throne can also open up state-funded organizations and institutions anywhere in the Dunraich—it does not need to own the land, though a portion of any profit made by the institution goes towards the Templum that owns the land, as compensation for the workers.

* The Pryusi
A Pryus runs every Templum. He is the top Thalam wizard (by ability or by political power, the two often go hand in hand) in that organization. His role is to ensure that his operations run smoothly, that the businesses under his Templum are flourishing, and to handle the oversight of the child ventures directly under the Templum administration. The Pryus can create new ventures at any time, allocating assets and workers to begin its operation, as well as order an existing venture to close up shop so that its resources might be used for the greater whole—this is done generally when a business is failing to provide a suitable profit. The Pryus is also in charge of passing down laws from the Royal Viseur or local Vesal-Viseur, as well as instituting and enforcing the Templum’s own.

The Pyrusi regularly meet in an assembly known as the Dictorial Council. The Dictorial Council is a council of the various Templum Pryus’ to discuss matters pertaining to the good of all the Templums. It is similar to the Regional Council, but does not involve the Vesal-Viseurs and purely discusses matters relating to business. Templums may make deals to jointly work towards a common goal, or settle disputes between rival ventures.

Underneath the Pryus is usually an assembly of other Thalam, and most of the top level ventures are owned by Thalam also, or else rich and powerful nobility. Rare is it that a commoner manages to achieve a level of prominence within a Templum, but it is not unheard of. Commoners run smaller businesses, however, and they have the potential to rise in power if their venture is highly successful (a prospect used to encourage hard work). Thus being a productive worker is the key to nobility, outside of being a wizard, in the Dunraich.

Law. Most other regions within the Santharian Kingdom generally see Thalambathian law as very strict. Most rights do not exist in place of security acts, and so most individuals can be detained at will if they are deemed a threat to society, particularly minorities and foreigners. There has been gradual change to this, however, in light of Thalambath's position as a trade city. The Inquisitorium, the branch of the Thalambathian military that handles internal security, is also known to place agents into position to spy on suspicious individuals or companies. In fact, the state publicly proclaims that all businesses within the nation have at least one of these agents. Whether or not this is true is unknown, but as the agents have no identifying characteristics, it compels people to stay in line and respect the laws of the Dunraich.

Criminal justice is generally handled swiftly and harshly. The Inquisitorium regularly screens the Royal Eyes (the Dunraich’s city watch) for corruption, and traitors often lose their lives.

Magic use in the Dunraich is banned. Only the Thalam may use magic and even then, they must use it within the presence of the Temple of the Arcane or their own homes only. A Thalam may use magic in public if there is just cause, but they will be detained and questioned to affirm their story.

The Dunraich uses an inquisitorial court system. Individuals accused of crime are placed before a council of judiciaries and interrogated, and, along with whatever support evidence might be available, given a sentence befitting their transgression.

Generally, the civilian populace supports these acts, as they are considered to bring stability to the Dunraich and serve to weed out the weak from the strong.

Climate
Hot. The Dunraich has some of the worst and best weather in the Ráhaz’Dáth region. The two major cities of Thalambath and Ankhat both lie on the southern side of the Norong’Sorno volcano, where they sit atop fertile soil born of the volcano’s eruptions. Clouds rolling in off the sea let down an irregular but plentiful rain on this western peninsula, giving a brief reprieve from the glaring sun and allowing plentiful crop growth.

On the otherhand, just north of the volcano lie the Lands of Plain, where death is the most common commodity. Here the heat is unbearable, as toppings of volcanoes warm the already arid terrain. Clouds of ash and dust in the air, smothering life in the deadly heat. No Thalambath city dwells here, and it merely exists as a large blight upon the Dunraich’s territory.

East of Thalambath, at the outposts of Eastwall and Southwatch, are what is commonly considered the typical desert. Arid planes of sands, of which are only the rare rainfall. Days are hot, nights are cold, and breezes are uncommon—and often bring along currents of warm air and sand.

At the peninsula, violent storms of sand can arise out of nowhere. They bury the ancient cities in fine coats of dust, and threaten to return them to them to the dune wastes, just as was done to the empire long before them.

Economy
The Dunraich is largely a free market economy, and businesses are encouraged to compete with one another in order to keep prices stable, promote innovation, and, of course, to make money. The economy is today however considered bloated and its complicated and insular system has limited growth and foreign investment.

Each Templum owns a collection of large companies under its wing. These companies in turn own their own smaller ventures, down the line till the smallest worker stall. Within a single Templum there can be a wide range of businesses and products, though most Templums tend to concentrate on specific areas, denoted by the name of the Templum itself—IE Sail, Tilling, and so on.

* Resources
Thalambath’s biggest natural resource is fresh water and foodstuffs. The two major cities are both agricultural hubs, and the capital city has access to some of the largest stores of fresh water in the province. These resources are an ever-present market both within the city as well as in external markets like Strata.

Beyond these necessary resources, there is also Firestar paste, which has a variety of uses from construction to paint and sealant. Nor’sidian is a particularly strong product for construction, and iron and gold, among other metals, are mined in the northern mountains and shipped down to the main cities where they are used or sold elsewhere. Artwork, pottery, and tapestries are sold to foreigners, as are jewelry, especially that of the gem beetle kind. Other resources include obsidian, lead, copper, rhyolite, quartz, brimstone, burning stones, clay, feldspar, and glass.

The Dunraich also produces and sells magical and alchemical reagents of every kind, as well as unique craftwork like mithrilan weapons, which use forging techniques kept secret by the companies to produce metal that is tougher, lighter, and stronger than what can be found elsewhere. It is known that Varcopian mithrilan weapons are superior in quality, though Thalambath deals in greater bulk.

Due to the competitive nature of the Dunraich, there are usually more than enough products for trade. Prices are raised when a resource becomes scarce, which causes new ventures to start up and try and meet the demand if the potential for a return is sound enough.

* Production
Each venture in the Dunraich is granted a patch of land or building by the ruling Templum, along with possible startup funds if the worker requires it and the investment is sound. Generally, these institutions “own” the land on which they work (in reality they are merely renting it from the state), though this can be taken away at any time if the business flops. If a company needs more land for their business, they are free to work out deals with other companies in order to purchase more land. Essentially, land ownership operates along a line similar to the ancient Krath Empire of the continent of Nybelmar, with private land leasing instead of land owning.

All assets of the individual companies, including the workers, are ultimately owned by the ruling Templum. Each venture is assigned an Asset Advisor whose job is to make sure that the venture is not abusing its funds and is working towards an overall profit. The advisor has no power in the individual company, but can determine whether or not it receives the funding it needs by his reports to the Templum’s regulatory body.

* Trade
In the past, the Dunraich has been extremely isolationist, trading largely within its own borders. It is believed that Thalambathian companies and influence might have played a large hand in shaping Strata’s trade empire during its Golden Years, but otherwise the Dunraich only traded amongst its own ventures. After Thalambath became capital of the province however, and with the collapse of Strata, the Dunraich opened up its borders for trade. Early attempts however were not successful, as the government attempted to control the market manually and was unable to consistently guess the trends necessary for most of the nationalized companies to make a profit. Foreign enterprises tended to outplay the internal organizations and many shut down.

This lead to the Stauhur Revolutions in the early 1200s, which reformed the state’s amount of control over the Templums and turned them into essentially banking institutes that own and finance their own enterprises by state funds but otherwise have no direct control, as seen today. Smaller ventures were granted private ownership and control, and market demand is determined by product sales and trends. As the funds of the various enterprises under a Templum tend to be pooled, this quickly built up their power and trade since then has flourished to the benefit of the state's workers instead of the foreign traders. This helped stabilize the economy, but the convoluted system has discouraged growth.

Currently, interior trade is stronger than foreign trade. This is because the Templums make a strong effort to limit how much foreign products can enter the state market. When it appears that a foreign business is being too successful and is driving internal enterprises out of business, the state imposes larger tariffs on the imports. This slows down the market, and allows the enterprise to either recover, or for other ventures to startup and take control of the market.

Citizens are encouraged to buy Thalambathian-made products only. There is strong national incentive towards this, but costs are usually the ultimate factor. This has made Thalambath the weakest of the three trading cities of Truban, despite its relative stability.

Military
The Dunraich is the strongest armed force in the southern parts of Santharia. While Strata and Varcopas have both been known for their navies, neither has a particularly strong land force due to the desert expanse. The Dunraich, however, despite there being no real threat of war, ruthlessly trains its men to fight from a young age. All men are required to join the watch for a few years, where they receive most basic military training. Though most do not remain in military service, this mandatory conscription leaves a large pool of potential soldiers that the Dunraich can call on when it goes to war.

The Thalambathian army is still fairly small, however. Even if the regiments of each vesal were combined into a single force, many northern duchies would still dwarf it. Instead, the Dunraich relies on the magic of its wizards for force multiplication. Though the nature of Thalambathian Arcanistry makes its users less capable of 'artillery' magic like Ximaxians, the Thalam are unparalled summoners and, given enough time, are said to be capable of conjuring hordes of monstrous creatures.

Each vesal in the Dunraich is charged with maintaining a standing army at all times. In times of war, the majority of these soldiers are combined into a single Army (which is then divided into regiments and divisions) and commanded by the Templum of the Sword.

The Thalambathian Navy is of similar size to Strata's, but is considered inferior overall. However, like the army, the Thalambathian Navy is bolstered by the efforts of the Thalam, and it is said that the sea creatures conjured by the wizards were what saved the Dunraich from falling to the Royalist fleet in the Age of Havoc.

Religion
The official religion for Thalambath is known as the Temple of Vierahn, named after the prophet Azan Vierahn. The chief god of the Temple of Vierahn is known as Avhan. Other demi-gods exist, risen from prominent Kaizranian leaders and religious figures in the past, but they are seen as servants and saints of Avhan, rather than gods to be worshipped themselves. Religious scholars see the Vierahn faith as a bastardification of the Avanian Faith that was once practiced by the Astar’Nuvic empire. Avhan is seen as male, unlike Avá, but is similarly associated with dreaming the world into creation—though in Vierahn scripture, Avhan’s dreaming was deliberate, rather than accidental.

Avhan is considered to still be an active participant in the world. Worshippers believe in perfecting themselves in order to make them worthy in the eyes of Avhan, who will thus grant them passage to the next life. His wrath is also frequently documented, and the Thalambathians believe that it was Avhan’s fury that struck down the Astar’Nuvic Empire for its sins.

Avhan is most often associated with fire and light. The Norong’Sorno is considered to be an altar to Avhan, and the Injera and the moon are his eye. His eye is open during the day to provide warmth and guidance to his people, and closed at night so that they might rest. Full moons are the exception, and they are seen as Avhan watching his people while they rest. Full moons are thus also seen as a warning against criminals and murderers, for even in the darkness, Avhan is watching.

A gold, flourished open eye symbolizes the Temple of Vierahn. The eye is symmetrical in shape on both sides, and surrounded by a triangle within a square, with radiant lights beaming outwards from the center.

The Twelvern also exist in the Dunraich, though their temples are small and conservative Vierahnites consider them heretical. More moderate interpretations have considered the Twelvern to be saints and servants of Avhan, ironically bringing the faith closer to its elven roots. Worship of the Twelvern is found primarily among foreigners, but there is a growing tolerance among natives.

History
[...]


Title: Re: WIP (Kingdom): The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 15 September 2009, 16:47:02
Oh Fox, I don't have the time to read through all this in the next future, I can't even write enough just now, need to fetch my daughter.

I just looked at your maps mostly. And I can only say, it will  not work this way.

We never talked about extending Thalambath into the desert this far. I have entirely different plans for the Lands of Pain, and the rest of the desert. Every where stands, that only the Shendar are there and that they fight fiercely for their territory. I attach the map with the area of Thalambath we agreed about below.

Nor can you invent a kingdom within the Santharian greater realm like we have it now. You can do a city state, but Thalambath is part of the province Truban and though it is much older than Strata - Strata needs at one point in history to have the say in the area. It could have been a kingdom in former times, but within the boundaries we agreed about. The desert is meant to be inhabitable, I added enough life anyway.

It makes no sense to do duchies like you have them done, for if the cites have no influence there, it makes not much sense.

I proposed to change the borders of the provinces of Truban and Brendulan a bit ago, to match history events.

I might do a map later.

Edit: I'm sure, you can realise most of your ideas within the restricted area as well.
I cannot go over this too soon, I need to write some of my own stuff as well, with commenting only I get my own things not done. *sigh*


Title: Re: WIP (Kingdom): The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Fox on 15 September 2009, 17:12:18
Oh Fox, I don't have the time to read through all this in the next future, I can't even write enough just now, need to fetch my daughter.

I just looked at your maps mostly. And I can only say, it will  not work this way.

We never talked about extending Thalambath into the desert this far. I have entirely different plans for the Lands of Pain, and the rest of the desert. Every where stands, that only the Shendar are there and that they fight fiercely for their territory. I attach the map with the area of Thalambath we agreed about below.

As nomads, I did not think that the Shendar had any real legal claim to the territory, let alone the population or means to occupy that much space in it. Nor do I say that the Shendar do not live in that area, they are free to roam completely in all that area.

Plus, the Shendar have all that space east of the Salt Pans, where no Stratanian settlement could be.

And the map that you pasted was what we agreed for Thalambath the city. This entry is Thalambath the Duchy. BTW, on the first page of my Thalambath city on the forums, I posted a picture that used these exact same borders then (with a couple of differently named cities on it as well). You only commented on the city itself being too large, you never told me then that there was any problem with the borders, so I was under the assumption that those borders were okay. :(

Quote
Nor can you invent a kingdom within the Santharian greater realm like we have it now. You can do a city state, but Thalambath is part of the province Truban and though it is much older than Strata - Strata needs at one point in history to have the say in the area. It could have been a kingdom in former times, but within the boundaries we agreed about. The desert is meant to be inhabitable, I added enough life anyway.

I am not inventing a kingdom? This is why I specifically asked not two days ago if a Kingdom/State entry can be used for this very reason. This is essentially a *Duchy* entry (it just doesn't go by that name). The boundaries I have laid out are just that--boundaries. And, they are about a similar size to the duchies in Manthria. I roughly divided up Truban into three equal parts, based on, as far as I was aware, the three equal regions, and I tried to keep it neutral. I didn't do any Shendar specific area, because I was under the assumption that they lived everywhere and roamed and didn't care too much for ideas of territory. Plus, again, there's all that space in Brendolan.

The boundaries are purely territory. They are not indications of settlements. Pretty much 99% of the area I have put within the Thalambath duchy is not inhabited. They just consider it their territory. If we were to do a Truban version of the Manthria map, it would still be pretty much all desert. I gave it 4 towns. That is not a kingdom. And unless you mean the government is too different from the Santharian Kingdom, as far as I was aware the regions were fairly autonomous in terms of how they are permitted to rule their areas.

Note that if I were to put up a map of just the areas where there were actually people living, it would look like this:

(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9194/rahazdath2.jpg)

Which is very very little territory overall. The rest is all empty desert, and there's nothing stopping Shendar from using it. I wrote this with the intent to not conflict with anything. Shendar, Strata, or Varcopas. My Description section even mentions that travelers might see Shendar domes in the desert when on the way to the cities! I was not in any way trying to cut out or discredit the Shendar or the Stratanians, and I'm sorry if it's come across that way.

Quote
It makes no sense to do duchies like you have them done, for if the cites have no influence there, it makes not much sense.

Then how is Truban divided up? Are you saying that it's all unclaimed land aside from the cities? In which case that would be saying that Truban does not have duchies, because by the amount you're allocating you're implying that Varcopas, Strata, and Thalambath all have the sum total of a single fief each.


I get the impression that you want the desert to be divided up like this, where yellow is the Shendar:

(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8405/rahazdath.th.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/rahazdath.jpg/)


I'm sorry Talia. But I'm really at a loss as to what I did wrong here. :( I wasn't trying to step on any toes...



Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 15 September 2009, 22:19:51
Fox, can't answer all your questions right now, my family is coming back from Japan this night and I will be terribly busy until Thursday and not here the weekend either.

Just a few words.

I don't remember that map you speak of right now, but I would surely have opposed a settlement in the Oka'Seri Swamp. I see the Rahaz-Dath as mainly inhabitable wilderness and of not much of interest to settlers. I'll try to get a preliminary map with Shendar territories done soon.

Kingdom: I didn't  think you wanted to have a recent kingdom, but wanted to have a more elaborate places template. The kingdom template itself says, that a tribe's entry has to be done first. Now, I don't think I need to have to do this of a culture long extinct as the Three Races Empire, but you could start with a tribe entry of the people which inhabit Thalambath and its closer surrounding, if they are so different from the rest. (I know, they are). You can't have this kingdom under the flag of the current king within the borders of the Kingdom of Santharia! It has to be a province!

There could be small kingdom in the past. But at one point Strata has to dominate,  we have had a Stratanian Kingdom at one point in history.

You want more room for your people and I see your need for it, but I can't give it to you or I have to abandon all my ideas and tons of notes.

I have a proposal though for it would be a pity if you would need to scratch all,  you could live out all your ideas, but Art has to agree.

Have a colony of Thalambath. A colony which is now independent in a way, so that Thalambath can belong to Santharia , but you can build your kingdom.

I think , some of your people could have detected the two islands which make up the Kingdom of Dorania (http://www.santharia.com/places/dorania.htm) today. I think you could build on /expand this entry vastly, if you put your people there. I don't think, Drogo would object, I can ask him, if you want.

It would be a bit more complicated, with two main centres, but the more interesting and the ships of Thalambath have to go either around the Scattersand Shaols or meet Arkon Delath!


Artimidor, would you allow to develop this Kingdom? Fox has such great ideas and I would like to see them developed.


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Fox on 15 September 2009, 22:34:20
It is not a recent "kingdom". It was not written to be in any way separate from the Santharian Kingdom and I am not sure how you see it that way. It is a province (in this entry's case it's a duchy within a province). I don't see what the problem is--are cultural differences not allowed? I again say, this was not written to be a kingdom. Just a culturally bent region. I thought, like, I think the example we've used before is Santh being like the European Union. Which many of the states in that are very different, aren't they?

I'm sorry. I'm just... I don't know what makes this not work? Are all areas in the Santh Kingdom supposed to be strictly uniform and all exactly the same? Even in this instance though it is mostly the same I thought. It uses culturally inspired names but otherwise I don't know what makes it not work?

And yes at one point Strata dominated. I'm not sure what here suggests that could have not been the case. Are you saying they would have imposed their system of government on Thalambath? Even then, the way that it is organized now is not how it would have been organized then, so even if Strata did impose its own laws on Thalambath then, since the switch there would have been a change in governing again (and all the politics and laws here do not apply to Strata at all! They're local only...).

And I was doing the tribe entry first, but there was overlap and I felt this set the cultural scene better. The tribe is already half done, and I considered posting it as well in its half finished state.


I'm sorry. I just still can't see, where I am imposing. Territory and border wise--okay, that can be changed. But this is not supposed to be a separate kingdom--the fact that it uses the kingdom template is the only reference to that term at all. Please tell me what it is that is wrong and makes you think that way.


I'd prefer to stay in Santharia. I didn't want to do an independent kingdom and if this does not work as is, I would prefer to rework it, not move it. But before I can do that, I need to know what is wrong, what makes it not fit.


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 16 September 2009, 01:28:36
Fox, I'm on the way to the airport and I can only say, that I might have had a wrong impression when I skimmed very briefly over it, looking at the maps etc. I thought you were describing of a kingdom, and a recent one. I said, I didn't read it.

I still can't remember a map where I have agreed on other settlements than Thalambath and the town west from it. I conceded to a few farms east of it in your townentry, but thought had pointed out, that the oasis should not be part of it. Not to mention the settlements south from Thalambath (North of the Yar'dangs) or the Oka'Seri Swamp. If you need more place for stuff, think about that not much developed island.

I probably won't be here for the next few days. If I have some time left, I need to write some stuff for the RPG board.


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 September 2009, 03:20:52
Well, first of all it would have been better to discuss the basic ideas first and then do a major entry. That usually helps to avoid major discrepancies on the realization of these ideas later.

Secondly I can't read the whole entry now, and I can't speak for Talia who obviously has her own ideas down there south.

Then again if you ask me the way I see it the basic idea seems to be to make Thalambath a "Sovereign Nation-State" as Fox calls it, or lets say: something that stands on its own, represents a distinctive entity down there south, and has its own political ideas, magical developments etc. I like that, it seems like a cool and fresh idea down there with that fantastic location next to the volcano and the whole myth about Thalambath's Heart etc. I guess the whole point of starting own magic concepts, writing the Places entry, explaining the "state organization" and people was to make it that special place in the Santharian context, and that the first magic ideas are part of the whole thing, which would work best in the whole context.

Personally I don't like the terms "state" and "nation" however, as they lead away from the Santharian duchies concepts (even though that's part of the intenion), but they remind more of Nybelmar, where we indeed have city-states. And that in my personal point of view looks a bit exotic in itself seen from the Santharian perspective. Especially the term "nation" doesn't sound very medieval to me. I'd go more for an own term perhaps that represents this special kind of "independent duchy", to have something unique. Like there are "caliphate" for "caliphs" etc. (Also you start off with saying that Thalambath is one of the oldest "kingdoms" in Santharia, which is quite misleading.)

So I don't have a lot of insight into the guys that are meant to populate the area and in the olace itself yet, but it definitely sounds interesting from the first glance in my eyes. Moving it entirely elsewhere would be troublesome, as what has been developed so far obviously had all this in mind already. But basically this is the territory of the Lady of the South, and this needs to be brought into accordance with the overall concept, so I guess there are a bunch of discussions necessary here.


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 16 September 2009, 06:32:12
*looks in exhausted, family is so tiring*

Fox, I didn't say, your tribe couldn't be different and you know, I agreed with the different magic (if that is ok with the magic experts) as a counterpoint to Ximax and all the other cool stuff. It is the enlargement you suddenly bring on the table, the new additional cites in territories where I never have agreed to. And then you suddenly add several other places.

First wanted to do enhancement of the Thalambath we had already, then you made a quite large city out of it (bigger than the ecosystem would support and what would be reasonable for that area, but I supported this to an extent), then you added the western part, then the eastern farms. I think that should be enough. A major power there as you have planned it with that extension unbalances all apart from that it disturbs the idea of the Shendar, they are not just nomads who wander in  territories which belong to anybody, but are a true power themselves.

Find solutions which help you develop your ideas in the restricted area. That might be even more interesting. Sorry. I still think a colony somewhere could be helpful.

Art, as you can see from my last post, I don't have problems with Fox' cool ideas, but with where they should be realised.

*falls into bed*


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 16 September 2009, 07:22:23
While I only skimread the entry, what I was interested by were the banners! Did you make those yourself?


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Fox on 16 September 2009, 07:32:45
Talia: As I said, if it's the overall territory you have a problem with, then we can change that. I was trying to divide Truban up into lands that I thought were reasonable, but clearly I was wrong here.

The island is too far to really be part of it. It also doesn't make sense that the capital of Truban would have most of its territory in a location outside of the province. Nor do I think they be able to effectively manage it, that far away. Thank you for the offer, but I don't think that it could work.

Talia, I can wait until you are free. I'll do other stuff in the meantime. Don't worry about this if you are busy. I didn't want to impose.

Maybe we could use ICQ or something to discuss things sometime.


Art: The words can be changed. I'll try and think of something else then for that. Also, 'one of the oldest kingdoms'... technically, most of the provinces are all old kingdoms. At least that was my impression. Though, if it is misleading, I can change that line. Probably "was" would have been better here.


Deci: Yes I did.


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 17 September 2009, 01:33:59
*folds arms and pouts*

I want such banner making skills!


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 September 2009, 01:59:27
The Santharian provinces have not all directly developed from kingdoms, maybe in the south it's more like that, but the provincial borders are all different compared to prior kingdom borders and represent regional separations determined by the landscape and stuff.

Flags look cool BTW, but still a little too digital. The sign itself in the center BTW isn't actually part of the flag as it doesn't bend with the folds as it seems...


Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Fox on 17 September 2009, 03:01:53
The flags are done on a flat image (all in PS) and then the folds are done with the Burn tool, so there's no actual folding (they're mainly designed to look good at a very small size, and don't stand up to larger size viewing). I didn't really intend for them to go on the site, I'm just really bad with imagining COAs in my mind so I did a bunch of designs in PS till I found one I liked, and wrote from that. Those images were included to give a more visual representation here, but I didn't expect them to be used for the site. (I'm no Koldar here :))




Title: Re: WIP: The State of Thalambath (Talia!)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 29 September 2009, 16:55:54
Fox, before I dive deep in your entry I want to finish mine first, otherwise I get never something up. But so you can go on with yours, I just post a map and explain only a little bit, but basically what will work and what not.

The map is attached.

First: The Shendar are not just a bunch of wandering nomads, but a strong political force, though they would love to be able to keep to themselves. They have a half democratic system and a special representative at the Santhros' court, equal in rights (or nearly) to the thane. (the H'rul Zhaeón)

I do need all the space, for it will not work otherwise.
The Southern tribe of the Shen-Suii are not so much nomads who travel with their livestock, but life of selling salt (and coloured sand) to Strata and Thalambath, travelling between the Yar'Dangs and teh oasis. So if you have your borders right at the salt pan, you could harvest your own salt, which would be disastrous for them. I like to have a monopol on that salt. To do that effectively, they need the oasis there.

There could have been however fights/war about the are I marked a bit differently.

They go up, if the season allows it for hunting in the Oka'Seri Swamp, but would not consider that area as "theirs".

Oka'Seri Swamp: No way to have a settlement there. It is just not possible. In addition, you write about trade over the water via ships to Uderza - that is exactly what I do not want. The Shendar have, and that I have always emphasized, the monopol about the crossing of the desert. That is the only thing that really keeps them safe - that nobody else can venture through it just like this.

What I could give you is a stripe of land along the coast around this bay, like marked. A relict of  an outpost to defend against Strata. I don't think it makes sense to have a town in the middle of what should be mere sanddunes. Not even the Shen-Suii do there more than hunting snakes.

The uncoloured areas should just be so inhabitable, that nobody really wants to claim them. The Cloudforest I need for a later joined project. The northern areas are not correctly marked, just a quick hint.

The borders of Brendulan/Truban have changed somewhen after one of the last wars, have to look it up at another time.

I think my next project after that will be the provinces of Brendulan and Truban ;)

Hope that helps you to work on!


Title: Re: The Dunraich of Thalambath (state/kingdom entry)
Post by: Fox on 05 November 2009, 15:31:38
Bringing this back up now that I've finished it.

The territory should now hopefully coincide with Talia's plans, we discussed things in PM and I think we came to an agreement. :thumbup:

Arti, I've come up with a culture-specific name, though there are still references of 'state' and 'nation' in the entry as it was hard to do without those words (I cannot call it a kingdom because it doesn't have a 'king' system, so nation/country are the only terms I can use there).



Talia: Don't worry about commenting on this if you don't have time. I don't mind letting it sit for awhile, I just wanted to update it to my newest version and get it out of the 'WIP' state.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 05 November 2009, 16:48:15
Let's see Fox, how great my curiosity is. Maybe I can hide from Azhira while I read it.

Unfortunately so many other things ask to be done, nice ones and not so nice ones. Currently it draws me to my tablet, but there things get again difficult with Altario's maps and the other one takes time....


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 05 November 2009, 16:49:54
Don't worry about it, Talia. I have the Kayrrhem revision to keep me busy. You can look at it whenever you feel like it! :P



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 26 April 2010, 22:52:45
Hi Fox...

I started again with your monumental construct and thought a lot about it in the last months (?). I still think, it is planned too grand for the present Santharian Kingdom organisation. It is out of balance. You can't have such a strong state and not have severe trouble. It is a state right now, and not a province.

I have a proposal for you: Keep it as it is, as a great empire! But it reached its end soon after Strata was founded. With all the territory you want to have for  at least part of the time. Its decline started around the time when Strata was founded, due to reasons I can't mention right now and here, but Varcopas might have had its share (it is nearly as old as Thalambath and will be a major contrahent during the centuries)

It has gained strength again after Strata's downfall and is therefore the capital of the province of Truban nowadays, but is is NOT a state, but a province as all others as well. The old Dunraich may still be in the heads, or people may long for these times, but the power of your government, even if it has the same structure still, is restricted. The Royal Revisor is a Thane and not more, it is the duchy of Thalambath now in the province of Truban and not the Dunraich of Thalambath. The Dunraich of Thalambath ended with the rise of Strata which let eventually to the Kingdom of Stratania. Maybe it would be a good idea to think about the temporary breakdown of that governmental structure as well. The common people may well call their province dunraihc still, but it is not the official name anymore and should not be officially called like this in a compendium entry.

I think you would not need to change much, 95% would probably stay. If you agree, I would start to read and comment under this aspect. How it (the duchy of Thalambath) looks now could be part of an entry about the province itself, which I will start soon to collect stuff. You could lay out there the differences between the dunraich and the province only and simply set a link to the other entry. We can then fight* over current territory and influence later. :) But I think it makes only sense to restrict your territory, so that it matches Strata's, more or less. How the territory looks in the head of your people is something else as what should be pinned down in the compendium.

I don't know, if that makes sense, but I would have some areas which are not claimed by anybody. To emphasise the wildness of this land in the South.

*Maybe we should set up a gambling game to decide when the Shendar and when your people owned the Cari'cari oasis? ;)

What do you think about that?

Dunraich, I wonder , where yu got that name from. Is Raich an old English form for empire? Could be well derived from German also:

Dun - Raich;  Dun-Reich; Dünenreich.




Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 27 April 2010, 20:47:09
First off, I already consider it to have been once a grander empire but now only a remnant. This will be more apparent in the history, but I consider it to be far weaker than it used to be. It is gaining power again, as you said, but now it has to struggle against the new higher-levels of government that serve to keep it in check.


The thing I don't understand is why empty land cannot be claimed as territory, with only minor outposts, and not still be considered untamed and wild. I already shrunk it down to be a lot smaller, and it is extremely small compared to other duchies in Santharia. I do not understand why Truban and Brendolan must have these extremely tiny duchies with huge huge tracts of unclaimed land (governments do not leave land unclaimed, even if they have no settlements there, they claim it for the political edge it gives them) while every other province gets these large duchies (even when those duchies include mountains, which would be no different from vast tracts of desert, yet are claimed anyway by those duchies). I'm assuming the main problem you have still is in it claiming the Lands of Pain, but as I have said, these areas are still pretty much empty. Sure I have an outpost or two, but these are very small, and do not take away from the rest of it, which is empty and wild.

The Sahara Desert is divided up between many nations in Africa (at least as far as I know), does that mean it isn't a wild, untamed, empty desert? No, the lands are claimed, but nothing lives there. That's all I'm asking for here.

What we have right now is a compromise, IMO. The area immediately south of the volcano, with a little tiny bit around the coast that shrinks and grows based on political conditions (we can say it is at a very shrunken level in today's world), and the Lands of Pain, which are essentially empty, claimed more for religious and political reasons than anything else.

I really don't see what's so wrong with the following image:

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7558/rahazdathnew3.jpg)

The red area is the only really populated area, and that's the same area you've given me to work with before. The dark red/brown is claimed, but not populated. It is still wild and untamed, just like you want it to be. I consider this to be a compromise already, considering it is still smaller than I wanted (and far smaller than any duchy outside of Truban). Especially since you gave me permission to claim it in PMs.

As far as matching Strata... I personally believe you gave Strata too little as well. And Varcopas. Hence why in my first map design I gave them all equally larger lands. I think Truban/Brendolan have far too much Shendar/unclaimed lands. But I won't get into that debate again, as we already had it and I submitted.


And I do treat it as a duchy (I consider state and duchy to be interchangeable terms, personally). Everything I've read on the site implies that many of the provinces kept their old names, traditions, and internal political structures. Now, Thalambath might be a bit more 'exotic' than other provinces, but considering how far south it is, I think this is appropriate. Not only are the lands wild, but the governments have little real oversight as well. Arti supported this in reply to your other thread, where he said that it varies 'considerably' from province to province, and is based on local customs (even within duchies, when you consider the elves who have equally exotic government systems). What I write is Thalambath's local customs.

Yes the ranks and titles were renamed on interactions with foreign peoples, but they can still use the old names in their own region. The more recent Ranks and Titles entry supports this. (for example: "Often Thanes also have additional titles related to the history or the geographical position of the province like Marshal in Nermeran, Tristin in Truban or Steward in the province of Sanguia")

"the historical and regional differences and developments of course still reflect as well in specific titles and powers of regional leaders, who still may exert their independence from the King to a certain degree. The actual power constellations compared to the theoretical definitions therefore are much more intricate and complicated, but still they operate to a vast degree in the layed out confines." - Santharian Ranks and Titles entry

This is what I have based my writing here on from the start. Now, what I can do is more thoroughly clarify that how the current hierarchy fits in with the Santharian government (which I believe it does, pretty much all of my ranks can be tied into same system as any other province, they just have some differences in the way the power is handled, which is, again, supported in the Ranks and Titles entry. There is even a still unfinished 'Regional Ranks and Titles' section that, judging from the name, is supposed to show the differences between the various cultures in how they realize the same standard system.

But they still have this system:

Thane (the Royal Viseur, the Seven serve more as an advisory council to the Thane)
Duke (the Royal Viseur technically, the Exarch in practice)
Graven (Vesel-Viseurs)
Privileged Nobility (the Pryus' at the higher levels, smaller business owners beneath them)

While there is a bit of a difference in the way power is handled, it still fits into the Santharian ranking system on a basic level. There are specific differences in the way they are handled, but both entries give evidence to support the viability of this.

I did not want another obviously feudal state of which we already have so many of (as I consider Thalambath's government to be one of its most interesting parts), just as you don't want the Rahaz'Dath to be tamed and civilized (which I believe I have acquiesced to by already giving Thalambath a lot less land when compared to any other province's duchies). The system allows for cultural differences in the way power is handled, so I don't believe I have done anything wrong in this regard. As I said, what I can do is clarify more specifically how these differences tie into the standard high level Santharian structure.

Another thing I could do, if you wish, is to give the Vesal-Viseurs more power than they currently have. Right now they don't really have the power to distribute the land (rather they are allowed to delegate that power but have no real say in 'how' it gets distributed). They are the ones that are seemingly the most outside of the system, and I could change that if you wished, to give them more power over their lands.

Another thing I could change is how the Royal Viseur is chosen. I could perhaps give Varcopas and Strata more say in this, but I am unsure how at this moment. The more say those two have, however, the less power Thalambath will allow the Royal Viseur. Alternatively, I could recreate the Tristin rank, which stands over the Royal Viseur in terms of provincial government, relegating the Royal Viseur to more of a proper 'duke' role. The Tristin, however, would not be allowed too much internal power (which I believe Thalambath would be able to enforce, as they do have dominance right now).


And yes, raich was derived from the German reich, as I was designing Thalambath with a lot of Nazi Germany influences and I've always loved the way 'reich' sounded. Dun + reich just sounded cool, I don't know what dun/dunen means in German. Quite a few of the people names also are a blend between German-sounding and Egyptian-sounding names.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 27 April 2010, 22:36:50
Fox..  *gives her a cup of fine tea and some Shendar sweets she has yet to develop*

 I might have expressed myself wrong. What I said about "grandness" did not refer to our discussions and the scaled down province of Thalambath. What I meant was more that what you initially wanted would never fit now, and maybe not in the past either. When I looked at your submission, I did not know where to start, what to skip, what to discuss. So I thought it might be a better way to think about how the dunraich would have looked back during the time of its glory, to decide when a certain town/area could have been inhabited, or why not.

Quote
The thing I don't understand is why empty land cannot be claimed as territory, with only minor outposts, and not still be considered untamed and wild.
I asked myself, if not claimed areas would make sense. But it is one thing, a power claiming a territory, another, if this is accepted by the "authorities". So Thalambath might well claim the golden reach, but what if this claim is not accepted in New Santhala? Then it will not go into the  compendium. But I have not made up my mind anyway. I feel, that if anyone claims a territory, it is somehow 'violated'. Its less... whatever.. than before. But that may only be my own weird opinion.

You compare the Rahaz-Dath a lot with more Northern areas, but I think you cannot, for up there are, apart from a few wild mountain ranges, all the area is inhabited, and exactly that I wanted to avoid. I want a big part of it unknown to most people, apart from the Shendar, and even from them. They would not claim anything as theirs, but if another power does it, they of course will do it also.

Fox, I didn't say anything about the area you posted in your last pic. I did not really question it, I thought we could speak about this at a later point.

I think our problem is, that you write as a native of that area, and of course, you think in terms of "dunraich", and not province.

Quote
The Dunraich of Thalambath

The Dunraich of Thalambath is one of the oldest civilizations in the United Kingdom of Santharia. It has existed as an independent sovereignty since near the War of the Chosen, and as a member of the Stratanian Kingdom and eventually the United Kingdom of Santharia since then.

Quote
The Dunraich of Thalambath is more commonly known as the Thalambathian State in its territory, and as the Duchy of Thalambath in more northern provinces of Santharia, but it still uses the Ancient Kaipheran word of Dunraich for official papers and representations. Though Dunraich simply translates to “state” or “kingdom” in Tharian, it has evolved in the current time to refer to the nation as a whole.

I think, the correct version of the last paragraph would be this, (though for me 'state' is not the same as 'province', but always has the ring of sovereignty without any higher power above):

The Duchy of Thalambath is more commonly known as the Thalambathian State in its territory, even the expression "Dunraich of Thalambath" after the old empire is more often used as "province". it still uses the Ancient Kaipheran word of Dunraich for official papers and representations.

Would it be allowed to speak of 'Kingdom' for an Santharian Province? Was that not discouraged when Santhros united the lands, why are then Thanes not Kings under the Santhran? So an official entry for the compendium should use the proper names, and not those the people use. Even if your papers have it on their headings. I hope I made myself a bit more understandable.

I've run out of time right now.

dunes - Dünen --> Dunraich - empire of dunes?


I'll answer your PM later   :heart:


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 27 April 2010, 23:35:45
Argh!!!  Ninja'd.  Oh well, I spent time writing it, so I'm posting it.  If it is now irrelevant, ignore it.  :P  Now I'll read Talias new post to see how far off base I was.


May I interject a comment?

Talia, I'm wondering if you being from the heart of Europe,  which has history going back two thousand years and further, might have a coloured judgement.

Being over here in North America, our history has always been one of exploration.  In Calgary, where I'm from, we don't have thousand year old buildings.  You'd be hard pressed to find half a dozen hundred year old buildings.

Here, we don't have dozens of countries gathered around each other, with defined borders.  What we had was a vast tract of untamed, unexplored wilderness that claimed by sometimes more than one country at a time, though they didn't know what lay within.  It was a hollow grab for power, which happened to be fulfilled by the US and for Canada eventually.  But at the time, it was land held in name only, and not in any practical sense.

When the US made the Louisiana Purchase, no one lived there (at least not the Americans, and nobody asked the natives if they wanted to be US citizens).  Same with Lewis and Clarke extending the US claim from Eastern US through to the Pacific.  That great big area in between, which now comprises one of the largest sections of America, was empty space.  (Again, no one sought out the natives opinion).

Even today, especially in Canada, we have lots of area where there are few people, but is still considered ours.

My point is this.  Would not Fox's "Empire" be able to claim large tracts of land that would be considered by a unbiased eye to be wilderness and uninhabited?  Claiming land where no one lives might extend your borders on a map, but in a physical way does not advantage you at all.  In fact, sometimes it can only hurt, as many empires in history over extended and then collapsed because of it; Rome being a good example.

As long as Fox does not start putting in a bunch of settlements and civilizing the area, does it affect anyone elses history?  I mean, in truth, could not two kingdoms claim the same unsettled land and not even know it?  We are talking, after all, of great distances and relatively few people, and primitive technology in terms of long distance communication and proper surveying techniques.  If these were, and are still, wilderness area, then I could or anyone could claim it on paper but never hold it in a practical sense.

Just my opinion, and placed here in hopes that a compromise can be worked out. :D


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 28 April 2010, 00:34:27
Fox..  *gives her a cup of fine tea and some Shendar sweets she has yet to develop*

 I might have expressed myself wrong. What I said about "grandness" did not refer to our discussions and the scaled down province of Thalambath. What I meant was more that what you initially wanted would never fit now, and maybe not in the past either. When I looked at your submission, I did not know where to start, what to skip, what to discuss. So I thought it might be a better way to think about how the dunraich would have looked back during the time of its glory, to decide when a certain town/area could have been inhabited, or why not.

I've been going by the present, and gradually expand 'downwards' into history. Because if we think about the details of the history now, it will take forever to get this done. I have tried to be vague enough while still hinting that there was a 'greater past' that isn't here anymore, but is still attempted to be emulated by the way it conducts itself.

While you do not know where to start in replying to the entry, I do not know where to start in considering what exactly you have a problem with in terms of 'grandness'. I would need specific examples of what you do not like for me to give any direct comments on this.

Quote
I asked myself, if not claimed areas would make sense. But it is one thing, a power claiming a territory, another, if this is accepted by the "authorities". So Thalambath might well claim the golden reach, but what if this claim is not accepted in New Santhala? Then it will not go into the  compendium. But I have not made up my mind anyway. I feel, that if anyone claims a territory, it is somehow 'violated'. Its less... whatever.. than before. But that may only be my own weird opinion.

You compare the Rahaz-Dath a lot with more Northern areas, but I think you cannot, for up there are, apart from a few wild mountain ranges, all the area is inhabited, and exactly that I wanted to avoid. I want a big part of it unknown to most people, apart from the Shendar, and even from them. They would not claim anything as theirs, but if another power does it, they of course will do it also.

If this land is considered unclaimed by the duchy, and therefore unclaimed by the province, then the Rahaz'dath desert is, in fact, not a part of the Santharian Kingdom. For the highest levels of government to be able to say 'we own this', then it must be distributed amongst the lower levels. New Santhala would say 'we own the whole Truban province'. Therefore, they have already 'claimed' the Rahaz'dath desert. As long as it is considered a portion of the Truban province, it is already claimed by the higher levels of government. The higher levels of government, then, would distribute that land amongst the lower levels. Land unclaimed by the kingdom would fall outside the kingdom. Land claimed by the kingdom would be divided up between the kingdom's constituents.

If I were to have claim to these areas, they would be no more populated than they are now. Just because I claim an area, does not mean I want to change your environment. I don't. I've been trying to respect it, I really have. It just means I, from my government standpoint, want to be able to draw bigger borders (namely, borders that reach each other, with nothing 'empty' in the middle). Nothing else. I am not trying to ruin anything you have designed. The Shendar can roam whereever they want, regardless of where the borders are drawn. Thalambath claiming the land does not put any restrictions on them.

Ultimately, I relate to the land from a government standpoint, while you relate to it from a Shendar standpoint. In my view, I see the Santharian government owning everything from the Tandala Mountains to the Burning Sea. All the land, every mountain range, lake, and desert. They then divide that land between the provinces. Who divide that land between the duchies. Who divide that land between the local lords. From a government standpoint, there is no room for a free land. The only free land is a land that the government (which still owns it) has explicitly ruled to be 'free' for some legitimate reason. Elven lands, for instance, are on their own, but it's because the government allows the elves to control that land.

You see it from the Shendar standpoint, which seems to me to be "you only 'own' where you live. You put down an abode here, it is yours, until you move, then it is free again." This works for the Shendar. If the Shendar wish to see it this way, great. The borders of other duchies wouldn't even bother them because they don't see things in that light. They would cross borders and continue to wander without care.

These two systems are incompatible on the same map. From a government standpoint, I cannot abide the thought of land that is 'free'. Free land is ripe for the taking. The only place your border should stop is at another country's borders. And even then, there are armies and diplomacy to get around that little hurdle. Point is, a government does not see any land as free. It might establish land as being 'not fit for settlement/travel', but it would still own the land.

When I look at a nation map, I see it based on land ownership. When you look at a map, you see it as 'the people only live here, here, and here'. This is where the big problem between us is in terms of understanding one another. While you see tiny red circles of population, I see large red circles of bordership, where there is no such thing as 'empty' land. It might be physically empty, yes. It might even be a giant chasm that leads straight to the other side of the planet for all I care. But my red circle would still cover it. :)

Quote
I think, the correct version of the last paragraph would be this, (though for me 'state' is not the same as 'province', but always has the ring of sovereignty without any higher power above):

That's because you're from Europe. In the US, a state is essentially a province. We have the central government, and each individual state that is part of the government, with their own state governments. Those governments have little real power beyond managing themselves, and many of their laws are determined by the central government. In the US, state is essentially 'a portion of a larger country'. ;)

Quote
Would it be allowed to speak of 'Kingdom' for an Santharian Province? Was that not discouraged when Santhros united the lands, why are then Thanes not Kings under the Santhran? So an official entry for the compendium should use the proper names, and not those the people use. Even if your papers have it on their headings. I hope I made myself a bit more understandable.

This would be fine. I can alter it to mention more specifically that in the larger kingdom, their titles are referred to by the normal Santharian names. But to keep this entry culturally local (which I believe the various entries are trying to show), it will still largely refer to them by their local names, just as when we mention the Tristin in entries we call it a Tristin, not a Thane. I'll just make it more clear that all of the titles are specifically linked with the proper Santharian ones.

Quote
dunes - Dünen --> Dunraich - empire of dunes?

Wow. It was not intended to be that, but it fits perfectly, lol.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 28 April 2010, 03:53:55
I PMed Fox, that I have run out of energy today and will postpone that till tomorrow. But I have an answer for you, Alt

Quote
Talia, I'm wondering if you being from the heart of Europe,  which has history going back two thousand years and further, might have a coloured judgement.

You got it right, I'm born in a town which is not far away of one of the places which call themselves "Center of Europe". And all my ancestors were born in this area also, no exception ;)

Maybe I do have a coloured judgement - I do not feel the need to claim, what I cannot own anyway.

Enough deep thinking for today. Attached a picture of Europe, the mark is my town of birth, Wunsiedel.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 29 April 2010, 04:16:23
A short answer to the territory/border discussion

Quote
If this land is considered unclaimed by the duchy, and therefore unclaimed by the province, then the Rahaz'dath desert is, in fact, not a part of the Santharian Kingdom. For the highest levels of government to be able to say 'we own this', then it must be distributed amongst the lower levels. New Santhala would say 'we own the whole Truban province'. Therefore, they have already 'claimed' the Rahaz'dath desert. As long as it is considered a portion of the Truban province, it is already claimed by the higher levels of government. The higher levels of government, then, would distribute that land amongst the lower levels. Land unclaimed by the kingdom would fall outside the kingdom. Land claimed by the kingdom would be divided up between the kingdom's constituents.

I do not agree here, it has not to be like this, just because it is the way in the US.. (there is nothing medieval there ;) )

An area can be claimed by the crown directly, without belonging to any duchy and therefore to another person/family. The Santhran could claim the centre of the Rahaz-Dath as his own. Or even all the lands (or most), the Shendar roam in, maybe to protect their style of life. Don't forget, that they no apolitcal group f wild nomads, but have their representative in the Counsil of the Hands. I don't know, what to do, if I should make duchies out of Shendar territory (the three subtribes) - the governmental structure would be there.

Of course any power can claim an area, but doesn't it have to be able to defend it as well? What if the neighbar doesn't agree?

The Nirmenith are so wild and nearly inaccessible , so what, if Thalambath would claim it and Varcopas as well, or the Ai'nuvic Grounds?  Both have not even access to that area. And the Shendar do not care, as long as they can travel through undisturbed.

So, what should that poor guy in New Santhala do, who has to draw that map? Be afraid to be either killed by an Thalambathian or Varcopasian assassin?

To the 'state' question - maybe we should try to find out, how this word was used in the middleages and use it in the same way.

Now, to your submission - which will take some time.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 29 April 2010, 09:33:24
How is there nothing medieval there? They have maps in Santharia, a whole map of the kingdom, so they would be doing the same thing I am... meeting together, and pointing out what areas they have, dividing it between themselves greedily. Making deals over who gets what, etc. I don't see how that isn't medieval.

Quote
An area can be claimed by the crown directly, without belonging to any duchy and therefore to another person/family. The Santhran could claim the centre of the Rahaz-Dath as his own. Or even all the lands (or most), the Shendar roam in, maybe to protect their style of life. Don't forget, that they no apolitcal group f wild nomads, but have their representative in the Counsil of the Hands. I don't know, what to do, if I should make duchies out of Shendar territory (the three subtribes) - the governmental structure would be there.

I did not dispute that it could not be claimed by the crown directly, just that for political reasons the crown would be hardpressed to keep that land all to himself when it would anger one of the constituents, especially when it is land like in the Rahaz'death where it is so far from the capital city and of little economic value. The crown would brush it off and say 'sure sure, you can have it, I don't want it', to appease them.

If you want to say, that the Santhran claims it, he needs to have a reason. You cannot just say he claims it arbitrarily. Because people will be angry (and I don't mean just Thalambath, but Varcopas and Strata as well), because their lands are kept smaller because of it.

And yes, I understand that the Shendar would be allowed lands of their own (and have been going under this assumption). The problem is, they are given an extremely large amount of land. Even assuming that the Shendar are allowed to say 'technically there are three sub-groups of Shendar, each should get an equal plot of land' (a reason that the crown might possibly go for, but would PISS OFF Thalambath, Strata, Varcopas, and Bardavos. Because it means the Shendar are getting special treatment by means of a very unstable loophole. Thalambath could claim that as well, unless we are doing away with having both Stratanians and Kaizranians in Thala).


And yes, they would have to defend the area, either by soldiers or by diplomacy. This is another problem the Shendar would have. Thalambath at the least would be willing to use military force to secure the lands nearest them. I'm not saying they're going to be able to enforce everything there (a desert warfare campaign is very hard to supply), but they would go to war over it unless the crown intervened. And even if the crown did, they might choose to secede if the crown supports the Shendar even though they already have essentially a monopoly on the land.

Yes though, I am not saying Varcopas or anyone would claim the Aj'nuvic lands if they don't even know how to get there. The mountains though, they could. Just the mountains would need to be settled via exterior means, IE combat elsewhere (where the winner is treated as gaining the mountain territory), or diplomacy.

Quote
So, what should that poor guy in New Santhala do, who has to draw that map? Be afraid to be either killed by an Thalambathian or Varcopasian assassin?

With the amount of land being given to the Shendar right now? Yes. It wouldn't be just one man though, it'd be a team of diplomats of the various constituents, possibly the Thanes, who are discussing it.


What we need to do here, IMO, Talia, is come up with a proper map with all the borders. Again, there's no such thing as 'free land'. Someone owns everything, and unless you can give me a good reason why the crown would say 'no one is allowed to settle in this area', then no land is 'free'. It needs to be divided up based on borders, with no land outside of those borders. Even in medieval times, government does not say 'that land doesn't exist just because we can't put a town on it'. Especially with the ancient governments that exist here. I could see if they were new governments, so would be deliberately placing limits on how much they're claiming, but with how old all of them are, and with how much money each has, they're going to be wheeling and dealing for every scrap.

Borders also do not mean the Shendar cannot travel where they will. The Thalambathians won't like it if the Shendar enter their borders, but unless they wander right up to a Thalambath outpost, Thala can't do anything about it. So even if Thala's territory covered the whole of the large area I had originally suggested, Shendar could wander through it unimpeded, and it would be no different than if the borders weren't there. The borders exist on a map, but not anywhere in person. No walls or anything.


This is how the map of both desert provinces looks to me, right now. It is based on the political spectrum map you gave me earlier. I've divided the Shendar into 4 'zones'. One for each of the three sub-tribes, and one that could be considered 'open to all Shendar'. This is mostly because you know better than me where each of the 3 dwell, so you'd have to clarify exactly who is where for me. This map is rough.

What we need, is for both of us to take a map, draw out where we see the borders (without leaving anything out), and discuss how much of the plot each side gets.

Essentially we need to map out the duchies, thinking about things not just from a singular city level.

Here's my current map based on your original spectrum map you posted on the first page of the thread. The main differences, aside from what is mentioned above, is that I gave Thala the Lands of Pain (which were 'unclaimed' in your spectrum map) and the Shendar the little area below the Madi Gradi Salt Pans (which were unclaimed). I also expanded the map to include the Scattersand Shoals, which Strata owns (as far as I know?).

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3739/rahazdathborders01.jpg)

Please let me know if there are any changes to this that you'd like to see, to put the map at your 'final version', then we can work on discussing what I would like to see changed.



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 29 April 2010, 10:22:27
For the love of Ava! Can't you two agreeably share a little bit of land? My Themed'lon is bigger than Thalambath! I only share with myself though.  :grin:

Just go to WAR already. That's how we do things up North and its worked well so far. Unclaimed lands? Pfft. Attack and pillage it. Problem solved.  :evil:

*the Kanapans are exempt...no one knows what those bull lovers do over there...or wait, maybe we do!  :buck:*


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 29 April 2010, 17:35:46
I want to see you in my place, Azhira! The Thalambathians would have hided in the lava tubes!  :buck:

Fox, I'm not happy with the map, what I threw out was a first approach, quickly made, but not necessarily how I think now it should look like. I will get to it eventually and post it in the Truban/Brendulan Thread. But only after I'm through with your main submission. It is not important for the definition of the Thalambath province area

Claiming something or not is not the only question here - I always wrote, emphasized, that the Ráhaz-Dáth is not accessible, out of its very own nature. I does not need the Shendar, to defend itself. Even the Shendar need special guides to get from one waterhole to the next. Any intruder will get lost and die, sooner or later. That is true not only for the central part, but for the mountains as well as for most parts of the Lands of Pain or the volcano, the open woodlands and the Jewels.  Of course single adventures will manage to go into those areas, maybe even a small, but strong military force. But nobody ever except a Shendar did cross the Rahaz-Dath from North to South. Even the cloud forest is not accessible due to its steep coastline (with a few exceptions)

So, how should anybody claim a land which he does not even know exists, or at least what exists behind that stretch of unforgiving sand?? Where no soldier of that land has ever been? Of course they can say, the next 200 or 2000 strals are mine also, but that could the neighboar say as well. So, who draws the map?

You say, The thala's would not mind, or could say anything if the Shendar cross their claimed territory. That is so contrary how you describe them : do you really think, they would allow a caravan with a lot of goods through their lands without asking at least for a considerable amout of tax? I see already now, that the Shen-Kha'si income will shrink dramatically! ;)

I'll think about your territory while reading through your stuff, Fox.

Please let me catch up a bit , go and tweak the Kayrhem meanwhile! If I'm writing and discussing too much right here, I will never get done, and a very busy time familywise lays ahead of me.



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 29 April 2010, 18:20:36
I want to see you in my place, Azhira! The Thalambathians would have hided in the lava tubes!  :buck:

Fox, I'm not happy with the map, what I threw out was a first approach, quickly made, but not necessarily how I think now it should look like. I will get to it eventually and post it in the Truban/Brendulan Thread. But only after I'm through with your main submission. It is not important for the definition of the Thalambath province area

It's not a final map. I would just like to get an idea of what you would like. That is how I am looking at it from your initial design, and I welcome whatever changes you make so I can get an idea of what you are planning.

The point is, if we are to discuss territory, visual aids help.

Quote
Claiming something or not is not the only question here - I always wrote, emphasized, that the Ráhaz-Dáth is not accessible, out of its very own nature. I does not need the Shendar, to defend itself. Even the Shendar need special guides to get from one waterhole to the next. Any intruder will get lost and die, sooner or later. That is true not only for the central part, but for the mountains as well as for most parts of the Lands of Pain or the volcano, the open woodlands and the Jewels.  Of course single adventures will manage to go into those areas, maybe even a small, but strong military force. But nobody ever except a Shendar did cross the Rahaz-Dath from North to South. Even the cloud forest is not accessible due to its steep coastline (with a few exceptions)

So, how should anybody claim a land which he does not even know exists, or at least what exists behind that stretch of unforgiving sand?? Where no soldier of that land has ever been? Of course they can say, the next 200 or 2000 strals are mine also, but that could the neighboar say as well. So, who draws the map?

But they do know it exists. It has been charted and mapped. The map on the website is an "in-character" one. And who is to say, that no soldier of that land has been there, when that nation has existed for thousands of years? Thala (or even Varcopas or Strata) are not new, they are not baby nations. They've been living there for a very, very long time.

The people who draw the borders of the map are the leaders of the nations. The Thalambath leader, the Strata leader, the Shendar leader, the Strata leader, the Varcopas leader. They gather together, have a map, and carve things out and make treaties and purchase plots of land.

When I say claim, I do not mean just arbitrarily saying 'that's mine'. I mean the wheeling and dealing that is involved with it. Purchasing parts of the land from the person who owns it, offering parts of his own land that another side wants in exchange for parts another side has.

In one word: Politics.

Or, going "screw you guys, I hate politics" and declaring war, and fighting over it.

(and no, I am not disputing that the Shendar would not own pretty much all of the eastern desert. But the territory closest to Thala/Strata/Varc/Bardovas would be contested)

Quote
You say, The thala's would not mind, or could say anything if the Shendar cross their claimed territory. That is so contrary how you describe them : do you really think, they would allow a caravan with a lot of goods through their lands without asking at least for a considerable amout of tax? I see already now, that the Shen-Kha'si income will shrink dramatically! ;)

I did not say they would not mind. I said they would not be able to enforce it. They wouldn't LIKE Shendar in their borders. But in the middle of the dunes, strals away from any outpost, the Shendar don't have to worry. Thala certainly won't like it and will go after them if they get near a patrol or outpost, but the vast majority of the territory would not have either.

Quote
Please let me catch up a bit , go and tweak the Kayrhem meanwhile! If I'm writing and discussing too much right here, I will never get done, and a very busy time familywise lays ahead of me.

Yeah, I keep meaning to do that...

And really, I just want to get over the territory hurdle. That's our big problem and I think once we iron that out we are fine. That's why I'd really like to get something resolved there.



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 05:53:56
Sorry for the long wait!

Hi Fox, I started twice this year to finish this comment (in spring and August). If I reread all now again I might not bring it on the forum this time either. So please forgive, if there are inconsistencies left or things are said twice (or spelling errors). I add a summary now out of my head at the end, and a proposal about the duchy (?) and the Dunraich.

Edit: I just realised, that where I said, use province, it should be duchy! Province is Truban with the Duchies of Thalambath, Strata, Varcopas and others. So please replace province with duchy, where I missed it!



Note that the government section is fairly politically sophisticated. I wanted the Dunraich to feel more bureaucratic and, more importantly, different from the stock fantasy feudal governments. I reason that Thalambath has had plenty of time to develop a fairly complex political and economic system considering that most of its citizens are educated and the Dunraich has existed in a comparatively untouched state for nearly 9,000 years (of course it's had its own civil wars and so on, but not nearly the amount of border changes and government takeovers that occurred in most of the other human nations). Plus the current government of the state is only about 400 years old, and when I work on the history, the development of the government over the centuries is going to be one of the key factors.

Untouched? Should it not be bound into the wars of the rest of the southern Sarvonian continent? Like planned here?
http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,10783.0.html

------

The Dunraich of Thalambath

The Dunraich of Thalambath is one of the oldest civilizations in the United Kingdom of Santharia. It has existed as an independent sovereignty since near the War of the Chosen, and as a member of the Stratanian Kingdom and eventually the United Kingdom of Santharia since then. At the present day, the Dunraich is one of the most economically powerful nations in Santharia, as a result of a very strong and organized governmental system. It has directly assisted in the funding of Strata’s reemergence as a trade city, operates a trade franchise of its own, handles the provincial governing of the Truban region, and has the most powerful law enforcement and military technology in the region of the Rahaz’Dath.

The Dunraich of Thalambath is more commonly known as the Thalambathian State in its territory, and as the Duchy of Thalambath in more northern provinces of Santharia, but it still uses the Ancient Kaipheran word of Dunraich for official papers and representations. Though Dunraich simply translates to “state” or “kingdom” in Tharian, it has evolved in the current time to refer to the nation as a whole.

The Dunraich is known for its strict regime, and the preeminence of its mage class in the upper echelons of society—a trait that not even Ximax can claim. The Dunraich also sits atop the ruins of one of the most powerful empires of ages long past, Astár’Nuvíc, and it is thus a fountain of lore, ranging from the arcane, to historical, to darker occult secrets.

While the Dunraich has suffered from internal unrest, particularly during the early periods of its history, it currently presents a strongly united front. Its businesses are known for their fierce competition with one another, but they work together to keep foreign markets from disturbing the internal balance, keeping Thalambathian-owned enterprises at the top of the food chain inside the state.

As I said above already, you are, apart from one mentioning that it is the duchy of Thalambath , describing that duchy as if it is still the empire from past times. I think what is here needed is more distance. You write it as a loyal citizen whose dearest wish is, that the old empire would still exist and not as the compendium writer, who, even if he is born there, should keep some more distance and describe it, at least in the first paragraphs, from the sight of somebody who looks at this Truban province from New Santhala, as the province it is now. You can of course mention, that the citizens there still pretend, that nothing has happened and use Dunraich on their papers. The heading is already wrong, it should be the „Duchy of Thalambath“ what it is officially. It is not any longer, correctly speaking, the Dunraich=Empire. It is only a name now. I don‘t know, if it is a good idea, to pack all the history of the Dunraich in the history of the „Province“. The history of this submission would only start with the founding of Santharia, this is meant as a description of the province, isn‘t it?  Development of the government e.g. at the time of the empire does not belong it this entry. If you want to write about the empire, then you should do this in an extra entry.
Edit: Oh well, I don't know

Location
The Dunraich lies at the western edge of the Rahaz’Dath desert in the Truban province of Santharia. Their territory extends from the western shores to just east of the Cari’Cari Oasis near the center of the Rahaz’Dath desert. From the north, Thalambathians count the edge of the Nirmenith Mountains as their border, and a series of fortresses and walls north of the Yar’Dangs makes up their southern border. The area of desert directly to the east and south of the capital city of Thalambath, terminating at the Yar’Dangs and the coast of the Burning Sea, is known as the Golden Reach.


I‘ll give my comments to the territory below.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 05:58:08
Description
The Dunraich is characterized by large, empty sand dunes, with a few cities spread throughout the edges where sustainable life is possible. And yet, the dunes appear more civilized than the rest of the Rahaz’Dath. Most travelers find themselves walking pressed sand or sweeped stone roads, painstakingly maintained by the state. Tall, dark stone pikes thrust out of the dunes every stral or two, marking the routes on the horizon when the roads might not. And, from time to time, the characteristic dome huts of Shendar families might be seen nestled snuggly amidst the endless desert.

You might need to change some of these descriptions. Please see below. What the Shendar concerns I need to think about where exactly they would set up their domes - not in the plain desert sands. For travelling it woudl be too time consuming.

//Pictures of Land: Ingeborg 31 and 14
"The majestic golden lands of the Dunraich of Thalambath."




Appearing at one of the cities presents a stark image of majesty. Dark reddish-orange and black buildings rise out of the sands, as if one had stumbled across an unmapped mountain range, only to realize that the shapes are far too straight and geometrical. Each building seems dwarfed by yet another building, though distinguishing any two buildings apart is difficult, as little beyond their size and perhaps the sparse customizations on the roofs separates them. One almost gets the feeling that they have stumbled across a wall, and, indeed, many of the buildings are attached to each other, with arching bridges crossing over the streets below.

And a site reserved only for the capital cities of Thalambath and Ankhat, one finds their eyes immediately drawn to the towering structures that shade even the monolithic stone shapes beneath them. Marrasquean manors, built of the richest nor’sidian stone, reach towards the sky, yet ward it away as if the wind were a demon by the sharp spikes and gruesome statues that ring the edges of these majestic towers. And in the distance, dwarfing even these dark buildings, rises the Norong’Sorno volcano, throwing out clouds of white and grey dust into the air—visible even from hundreds of strals away.

I don‘t think, that the province is characterized by large, empty sand dunes. They are part of it, but not what makes the core of it. There is foremost Thalmabath and Ankhat with the fertile land west of Thalambath, the most important one. Then the volcano. The Land of Pain has no dunes either, or only a few.
It looks more like those martian landscapes, maybe like this
http://helga-ingo.de/steine/steinwueste.jpg
http://www.laussner.net/Image_Travel/marokko/steinwueste.jpg
towards the Norong‘sorno more like this , there could be some reddish sandunes.
http://rentmauicondos.com/images/haleakala_crater.jpg

Then sanddunes would only be in the Southern part.


Important Locations. Though Thalambath is the largest city within the Dunraich, there are several smaller but equally vital townships within its borders. Many of these are the domains of wealthy Thalam Wizards who decided to carve out a section of the desert that they could do with as they please without the constant threat of political rivalries over their shoulders. These settlements generally continue to rely on Thalambath for sustenance and support, though some manage to eke out enough for themselves through efficient use of the land around them. Each formal town or outpost is ruled by a Vesal-Viseur, who has been granted the right to the city through favour currying with the Royal Viseur of Thalambath.

* The Capital City of Thalambath
Thalambath is the capital of the nation of the same name and is one of the oldest and largest cities on the Sarvonian continent. It is also one of the most secure, with a vastly higher ratio of law enforcement per civilian than any other city in Santharia. So low is its crime rate that even the Templars of the Black Pearl, who were rumored to have a high level operative placed in every major city in Santharia, refused to operate here due to the risk involved. Thalambath has been the capital of the Thalambath Dunraich since its formation from the ruins of the ancient Kaizoumetran town of Merioch, and has since become the capital of the Truban province as a whole. Within the state, Thalambath is frequently referred to as “Capital City”, to distinguish it from the Thalambathian state as a whole.

I have here problem with your word „nation“, isn‘t it just a tribe? Is ,nation‘ not a bit too modern?
,State‘ confuses me, why don‘t you use province?
I don‘t think either, that we should pin down, that Thalambath has always been the capital of the province. Why should the province be named „Stratanian Province“, if Strata was not the capital for a significant long time till its downfall.

* The City of Ankhat
Ankhat is frequently considered a part of the capital city, but is in fact a city all of its own. Only a day’s ride from Thalambath, Ankhat is the second most populated settlement in Thalambath, and for good reason. It is the breadbasket of the state, as it lies on the western peninsula, on the ancient dried lava flows of the Norong’Sorno, which provide excellent growing soil. Rain is abundant here too (for a desert), so most of Thalambath’s farms are located here. Ankhat has the most political influence with the capital city of any other city in the region, and if not for its lack of a suitable harbour, would rival Thalambath for the position of capital of the state. Ankhat is also a watchpost over the Truban Gulf, and is known for its lighthouse, which serves as both a garrison to watch for hostile fleets as well as a guide for trading ships from Nybelmar and the north.

There are roughly 150 strals from Thalambath to Ankath, so maybe more a two days ride.

* The Township of Bezalhur
Bezalhur is the third largest town in the Dunraich, though it is fairly small in comparison to the capital city and Ankhat. Located to the direct west of the Norong’Sorno volcano, at the edge of its slopes, it supports itself with farming in the region but, most importantly, harvests wood from the dark forest that lies on the slopes of the volcano. Bezalhur is constantly in threat of the volcano, more so than any other Thalambath settlement, and the city has been forced to evacuate several times due to the threat of an eruption.

I actually wanted to have the whole west slope of the volcano to be inhabitable, lavastreams down till the coast with no way to get to the north except by ship. This could be a fairly recent feature, maybe 800 years only, so you could incorporate it into the empire, maybe it was destroyed several times , but build up again, destroyed, build up. I‘m not sure about the dark forest on the slopes either (on each side), certainly not too high up., say about three hundret peds above sea level? And only on the south and east side.

* The Fortress of Eastwall
Eastwall is a large fortress-town located at the eastern border of the state, settling on the edge of the dunes of the Golden Reach. Regularly supplied by the capital, Eastwall is utterly dependent on outside sustenance. The majority of the Thalambath military is housed here, ready and waiting for the call to arms should the Dunraich become threatened. Those trying to slip into Thalambath unnoticed and without the proper Travel Coins are transferred to Eastwall, where they are imprisoned within its worn dungeons and interrogated. Most trade coming from the province of Brendolan and the eastern Rahaz’Dath is funneled through Eastwall.

Ok, but not farther East, ok?

But - I don‘t see, why you need to have most of your military there, which threat do you think comes from that part of the desert? A Shendar invasion? Strata? I don‘t think, that Thalambath needs to defend this border so heavily, that it has to have all its military there. There is not much trade coming from Brendolan (Bardavos), the most goes via ship over Varcopas, to Thalambath or Strata, if some captains don‘t want to use your harbour. Of course there will be caravans for stuff which might not survive a seavoyage, or for items the Shendar produce themselves, or items they buy in Bardovas and sell for more money in Strata. The Shen‘Siuu will sell you their salt there, but if Strata offers better prizes, they will bring it there. Such a heavy fortress would be a great threat to the Shendar in the Cari‘Cari though. So, there we would need quite some good arguments, why Thalambath wouldn‘t overtake it.

Why don‘t you make it a bit smaller, maybe as a prison town, where escaping per se is not possible, because you would die in the desert afterwards. But you don‘t need the major part of your military there. I would even agree to have it a little more south in the sanddunes, to enforce that prison feeling. Do you want to have these buildings red to black also? Somehow I see only sand coloured houses there, maybe a little orange, so that it melts in the sand.

Edit:
Originally you had it in the middle of that dunes. Though I do not like to have something there right now, because I love the untouched sanddunes like they are on the map, I think a strong town in the first hundred to 500 years (or more, say 2000?) might make sense - before the saltpans were saltpans, but maybe a lake. I thought the grasslands of the old empire would not vanish from today to tomorrow, but only over the time, in the central Rahaz-Dath earlier than more in the south though. As this area was populated before and had fields and forests, it might have had those for some time after the great disaster also, but , say, after 1000 years (?don‘t know, if I like this idea later  still) they just mismanaged their farming, used up, cut their trees and none were able to grow back, due to lack of water and a change of the climate which resulted from that deforestation. So, now there would be a buried city under those ruins. Only now and then, when the dunes wander, some remains would surface.

* The Border Keep of Southwatch
Southwatch lies about a few hours ride south of Eastwall, near the coast of the Aetryam Sea. It sits squarely on the edge of Thalambath’s borders, along the road south to Strata. Nearly all trade from Strata passes through Southwatch, where they are documented, commissioned Travel Coins, and given their designated routes through Thalambath’s lands. Southwatch was formerly a military outpost designed to alert Eastwall and Thalambath of any military incursions coming from Strata, though its presence is more benign now than in previous times.

The same applies as above - would it be not much easier to transport the goods by ship? Strata is not so long present, maybe it was a watchtower for the evil things from the South from the beginning.

* The Border Keep of Northpoint
Northpoint is the most northern settlement of Thalambath, and though it is named a keep, it is little more than a tower overlooking a small mining town. Northpoint sits at the edge of the coast at the most northwestern portion of the Lands of Pain, directly under the shadow of the Nirmenith Mountains. Few citizens live here, only a few soldiers and the miners and excavators of the mountains.

You can‘t have it now, but up to 500 (1000?) years before our time. Maybe your people gave it up, after they cut in all the trees which were not too difficult to harvest, or they poisoned the land with their mining and therefore left because it was more of less inhabitable. After a few hundred years, nature might have healed itself again or there was a way for new people to heal this area. Maybe you have to go a bit to the South, just out of military reasons, but this would have to be again an outpost which cannot sustain itself. See my proposal of the town in the mountains.

Edit - maybe a small harbour-village  for the mining village?

* The Golden Reach
The Golden Reach is the name of the dunes that lie to the east of the Norong’Sorno volcano and before the Makadi Gadi Salt Pans, running from the edge of the Nirmenith Mountains to the Yar’dangs. Though not entirely under Thalambath’s control, as Shendar exert their claims over the territory, bigger or smaller parts of it have occasionally fallen under the Dunraich’s dominion over the centuries. They are rich golden plains, with little apart from sand and dust. However, one can find Thalambathian roads here, which, depending on the political climate of the time, are swept and pressed in order to allow caravans to cross the desert. Every stral along the side of the road are large stone pillars reaching into the sky, which provide guides in case the roads have been covered by a sandstorm.

Why would Thalambath build such expensive roads into nowhere? Which caravans? There should be none except to the tombs, and I don‘t know, if such visits would be called caravans. Even if the roads were build in „good“ times, I doubt, that they would still be there, apart from remains here and there. But no pillar stands as long as this. Maybe one big road around the volcano to the burial grounds (with pillars), that is religious motivated and makes sense. Any pillar towards the cari‘cari though may find an early end... ;) And you would not build them for the Shendar, I assume..

//DEVELOPMENT NOTE

//

* The Lands of Pain
The Lands of Pain are almost entirely uninhabited. A single small outpost at the eastern shore is all that lies here, where a scant mining operation harvests the dark sand and stone here for construction in the southern settlements. Considering the lack of resources and the danger of the heat, there are frequent deaths here and so the materials are very expensive. The Lands of Pain are known in Thalambath however more for the rich tombs that dot the mostly empty and foreboding landscape, built here out of the dark stone.

I think I agreed to a place of tombs somewhere near the smaller volcanos, we did not talk about a spreading over the whole area („dot“). That does not mean, that these tombs have to be build too close together, though you surely can see from one to the next. The Land of Pain was meant as the most inhabitable, I would like to keep this desert deserted! :)

//Picture of Lands of Pain: Ingeborg 16
"The harsh night sky of the Lands of Pain, bathed in red by the fires of the volcanoes."


* The Nirmenith Mountains
The mountains are the northern edge of the Thalambathian state. Mostly uninhabited, there are a few quarries here, particularly Northpoint, which mine iron, gold, and other precious metals, or excavate the ancient dwarven ruins here. Goods found here sent down to Ankhat or Thalambath by a port (which is little more than a couple of wooden docks and tied up ships) at the coast.

One could think, that the mountains are part of your territitory also and the quarries are allover the place, the way your set the words. You can have Northpoint though the most of the time, see above, and I offer you another mine right at their Southern edge, maybe with an underground well, so that you can sustain your people? Find mithril, if you want, and there could be some dwarven tunnels still intact where you could find artifacts, but not too many - the former mountaistock has collapsed and water filled the caves!



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 06:02:09
Coat of Arms
The Thalambathian coat of arms is a bright red or yellow background bordered on right and left by a black border with a small white line running through it near the inner edge. At the center of this design is a multi-diamond—a large, white diamond, which serves as a border for the five interior diamonds within. Small black and white borders surround each of the inner diamonds, each of which is a nor’sidian black. The diamond in the absolute center of the other four, however, is a bright red. At the outside of this central diamond shape are three more, smaller diamonds, similar to the center ones—all three along the underside of the main shape. These diamonds represent the sovereignty of Thalambath—the Seven and the Royal Viseur. This symbol is known as the “One and Seven”.

The coat of arms is almost always featured as a banner, flown as an elongated design running down the sides of buildings, clamped at the top and bottom. Usually, multiple flags are spaced evenly along the full side of the building, or there will be only two flags that border the doorway to the building.

The main background colour of the coat of arms changes based on certain conditions within the state. A yellow background indicates peace or citizenship, and is the most common flag displayed around Thalambath’s territories. A red background indicates royalty or sovereignty, if used within a Templum or barracks, or a state of war if all city flags within the state are changed from yellow to red.

When on shields, the coat of arms frames the entire shield in the outside border, rather than just the tops or sides, and always has a red background, with the One and Seven symbol in the center. Also, when shown as a square flag, generally from the backs of Thalambathian ships, the borders appear on the top and bottom, rather than the sides.

A simpler variant of the One and Seven symbol for smaller ornamentations is usually just a white diamond with the eight black ones, on a yellow or red backround, without any complex bordering.

At the Black Temple, the interior red diamond is coloured a bright emerald green, in homage to the Thalambath’s Heart gemstone that lay within the ancient monument.

//DEVELOPMENT EXAMPLES:
Royal/war colours (banner):


Civilian/peace colours (square flag):

//

People
The Dunraich is made up almost solely of the native Kaizranian tribe. This however includes both the noble class, which is mainly families of whom can trace a relatively “untainted” Kaizranian bloodline back several centuries, as well as the lower classes, which are generally considered inferior to the “True” Kaizranians. The latter however has become more tolerated over the centuries and is now mostly equal to the True Kaizranians, as the blending of peoples as a result of joining the Stratanian Kingdom has been inevitable.

There are very few other peoples in the state. Foreigners, especially the other races like elves, have very few rights and so most are travelers only. Very few attempt, or succeed, at becoming civilians. Those that do manage it, along with families who have been “blacklisted” for crimes, are considered second-class citizens and suffer fairly harsh discrimination.

As a whole, the Kaizranian people generally look like Stratanians. They are, however, rather tall, reaching up to 2 peds, and their skin is often less gold-brown and more grey-brown in comparison. They have dark eyes and hair, and most wear their hair cropped short, rarely longer than the shoulders, even for women.

People of the Dunraich are generally known for being very disciplined. Almost all are educated, and much of the upper class is comprised of the Thalam Wizards, who tend to occupy powerful political positions.

Most citizens are highly competitive, and are also raised consistently to believe in the power of the Kaizranian blood and the state as a whole. They are fiercely nationalistic, and are raised to be willing to make personal sacrifices to benefit the greater community. This often makes Kaizranians appear arrogant and haughty to other tribes and races, which they deem as inferior.

Most Kaizranians are either in the local law enforcement or are general labourers. Most are scholars in some form or another, but not as a paid occupation. There is also a significant amount of individuals working in state-run organizations, namely administrating the many businesses in the Dunraich via the Templums, or the various youth and worker guilds.

[See the Kaizranian Men entry for further details.]

State Organization
The Dunraich is run at its head by an organization known as the Presidium. The Presidium comprises the Seven of Thalambath, who have ultimate dictatorial power over the state, and the Royal Viseur, who is generally charged with handling state affairs, including overseeing the Truban province as a whole. While the Viseur has assumed full dictatorial control over the Dunraich, this is generally curbed by the Seven as well as by the political influence of the Templums and the individual Vesal-Viseurs, who rule the other vesals (fiefs) within the state.

The Royal Viseur has here the function of the Thane also, that might give problem, if the other duchies have to vote for him also. So maybe we need an extra thane ,above‘ the Royal Viseur, who might have not much influence in the province of Thalambath. I assume, he has to have his seat here also, as Thalmbath is the capital, he might choose to spend a lot of time elsewhere though and allow the Royal Viseur as much leeway as he wants. So the true power may be in the hands of the Royal viseur, maybe even Truban wide. He may not speak for the interests of Thalambath though very strongly..

Under the Presidium come the Regional Council, the Vesal-Viseurs, and then the Templums, of which Thalambath society is divided up. Each controls a different aspect of society, and most are run by Thalam Wizards, which are known as Pryus’.

That‘s a it unclear formulated. You mix up persons and areas, as I see it.

Presidium - Regional council ( out of Vesal-viseurs) - Pryus=Thalam Wizards (who run the templums) ???
What is a templum exactly? An area? No .. (of which Thalambath society is divided up. Each controls a different aspect of society)??

This results in a highly regimented, state-controlled society, with strict and harsh laws in place to prevent abuse by the many groups and individuals who have access to ultimate power in their jurisdictions.

The Dunraich’s government is generally considered to be particularly complex in comparison to the rest of the Santharian Kingdom. Some supportive scholars have argued that it is a highly advanced form of government, and that the necessary level of organization to achieve it is a testament to the sophistication of the Dunraich. They argue that all provinces, when sufficiently evolved, will eventually develop governments similar to Thalambath’s. Detractors however state that it is too complex for a larger community, and that it only works in Thalambath due to its small size and self-sufficiency—an argument that seems to be supported by the fact that Thalambath has knowingly avoided implementing its system of government even in the other duchies of its own province.

Maybe you should use ,province/duchy‘ inbetween more often, the „Dunraich“ is more the lost empire.

The Presidium. The Presidium is the group of eight individuals at the top of the Thalambathian food chain. It refers to both the Seven and Royal Viseur, though in practice the Royal Viseur is the primary figure.

,food chain‘ - you are writing for the compendium, that is not approbriate! ;)

* The Seven.
The Seven are the most powerful group in Thalambath. Their position was in existence even before the city of Thalambath existed, when the humans of the region were just barely recovering from the disastrous eruption of the Norong’Sorno volcano that obliterated the empire before it. The Seven are aloof and mysterious, and there are many rumours about them. Some believe they are immortal, beings of the Era of Sorcery who have used their powerful magic to sustain themselves for millennia. Some believe the Seven are chosen out of modern Thalam Wizards when the time is right, during which their former identities are all but stripped and they seal themselves away with their peers. Regardless of which, the Seven possess some of the most powerful arcane abilities in the world. On their rare public displays of their skills, they have performed spells that supposedly even the greatest archmagi at Ximax would be unable to match.

The Seven rarely intervene in political affairs, save on rare occasions to curb over-enthusiastic Templums or Viseurs. Though they have absolute power, they only tend to exercise their right to veto. A prominent example of this was in ??? a.S., when the Seven prevented Royal Viseur Nafras Helm from seceding the Dunraich from the United Kingdom of Santharia when half of the old Stratanian Kingdom was given to the new province of Brendolan.

There is work to do here!

The Seven have never been seen at a Council of Linked Hands, and it is believed that the only time they have met a Santharian King was in 0 b.S., when Santhros the Wise retrieved the Keep’s Heart from the Black Castle, where they swore fealty to the new King.

The only person who semi-regularly encounters the Seven is the Royal Viseur, who consults with them over running the state. The Royal Viseur is chosen by the Seven, but cannot be removed except for a majority vote, albeit there have been very few occasions where this has happened. The Seven are also responsible for approving the appointment of Vesal-Viseurs and Grand Pryus’, and in approving the decision to elevate a business to the position of Templum.

It is unknown what the Seven look like, and no one knows their names. They are considered gods-on-Caelereth by the Kaizranians, and are always treated as a single group—there is always the Seven, never a Seven.

So, they don‘t die, or at least, nobody knows anything, and if one dies and they choose a new one, that is a secret act as well?
Maybe a few speculations would be good here? Remember, you are now a free person, writing for the compendium, get rid of your Kaizarian fetters.

* The Royal Viseur.
The Royal Viseur is the dictatorial head of the province of Thalambath. He is in charge with overseeing the Templums, to the point of deciding when a Templum is to be created or abolished, as well as with the appointment of Vesal-Viseurs and Pryus’. The Royal Viseur is also charged with the running of the capital city, which includes the duties of running the Truban province as a whole and conducting foreign relations with the greater Santharian Kingdom. He is both Truban Thane and Thalambathian Duke in one, by Santharian ranks.

That may be a problem, for the Thalambathians surely don‘t allow their Royal viseur to be voted by the other dutchy leaders.

The Royal Viseur is in charge with passing statewide or capital laws. These laws must be followed by all the Templums, and supersede any local or Templum laws. The Seven can veto them, but this is rare. He is also in charge of allocating state funds to the Templums for large products or occasionally to bail out a faltering Templum. The Royal Viseur can also in times of crisis or national need allocate emergency resources and control to a Templum—IE in threat of naval war the Royal Viseur can grant the Templum of Sail the ability to nationalize all assets necessary to the building and running of a wartime fleet. This ability extends even to the Templum of the Sword, though in practice this is impossible. The Seven have always vetoed any attempt by Royal Viseurs to grant the Templum of the Sword the right to nationalize all military forces. This has prevented Royal Viseurs from currying favour with the Templum and then giving them emergency powers and using that favour to supplant the Seven and take over the country by force.

Royal Viseurs are almost always Thalam Wizards, though there have been some rare exceptions. The citizens of the populace generally do not like non-Thalam Viseurs, however, as they are generally encouraged to believe in the divine power of the wizards. Most non-Thalam Viseurs have kept this fact a secret for most of their reign, though a few openly proclaim the fact and some have managed to gain widespread support. Also, Royal Viseurs are almost always male, though this is more by the lack of opportunity for females in high power than any laws, and it is not known whether or not the Seven share the chauvinistic ideals of the citizenship. There has been only a single case of a female Royal Viseur in the history of the Dunraich.

Just puzzling - has this system existed already before the down fall - during the Dunraich?

Royal Viseurs have also never voted for the elevation of female Thanes in the Council of Linked Hands to the position of Santhranna—such rulers invariably have the Truban vote against them (much to the chagrin of the honourary Shendar seat in the Council). On the other hand, Royal Viseurs almost never put themselves forward as candidates to the Santhran throne, either. As reportedly said by Royal Viseur Adoeljer Deuras in a private conversation with his advisor, “It serves not the Kaizran race to rule as king among the degenerate barbarians of the north”.

race?

Truban is not this old, so the Thalambathian Thane might have not have had often the possibility to not vote for a Santhranna. But there needs to be some history developed , so that this can be cleared up. Better not stir in here now, to get this submission up!

Edit: I‘ll have a look which Santhranna this could be!

The position of the Royal Viseur is its own Templum, known as the Royal Throne. The Royal Throne mostly consists of delegated positions that are in charge with managing specific areas of state need at the behest of the Viseur, such as taxes or foreign trade relations. The Royal Throne, like all Templums, has its own watch, but the Royal Throne forces are known as the Templar Knights. Unlike all other Templums, the Templar Knights are the only guard unit that are allowed to arrest and prosecute Thalam Wizards. This gives them great power and prestige, and they are a vaunted position among the watch.

The current Royal Viseur is Hairech Staufler.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 06:05:30
The Regional Council. The Regional Council is the assembly of Vesal-Viseurs, in charge with the management of the cities and territories outside of the capital city. The Regional Council generally only gathers to discuss matters of import that affect each of their lands within the state, such as when a new national law is passed by the Royal Viseur or when there are disputes of territory or other matters.

* The Vesal-Viseurs
The Vesal-Viseurs are the heads of each city or land within the Dunraich. They are the governors of their fiefs within the state, which are known as vesals, and are appointed to their position by the Royal Viseur. Statewide laws and the dictates of the Presidium bind each Vesal-Viseur. They can create local laws for their territories, though these are sometimes subject to approval by the Royal Viseur.

Again, you are describing your empire, the Dunraich, and not the provice/duchy of Thalambath. You should mention at least (already above), that the Vesal-Viseurs are the dukes of this provinces, as the ?? Vesals?) are the gravens. From the standpoint of New Santhala, these are the dukes, who the Thalambathians call Vesal-Viseurs. I don‘t know, how this goes together with the different tasks of the templums.. Maybe I have misunderstood something.

The charge of the Vesal-Viseurs is mostly in regulating the subsidiary Templums in their respective vesals. This includes deciding whether to provide state funding should a local Templum operation become financially at risk. Some vesals might have a substantial Templum influence, while other, less important lands might only have a single Templum to concern themselves with. In addition, Vesal-Viseurs must maintain a standing army in their vesals.

Like the Royal Viseur, the Vesal-Viseurs can bestow emergency powers to the subsidiary Templums in their territories. Unlike the capital Templums, these emergency resources are only on a vesal-wide level.

To the contrary of popular belief, Vesal-Viseurs do not divide up the land in their vesals, like Santharian Gravens. This is the role of the Templums that have stake in the land, and the Vesal-Viseur is merely in charge of funding and regulating these Templums and settling disputes. It is up to the Vesal-Viseur, however, to allow a new Templum to stake a claim in his territory.

So each Vesal-Viseur is a duke and has a certain territory (dutchy), where the gravens are more responsible for a certain task (templum?)

--> I know that‘s wrong, for the duchy is the duchy of Thalambath.. Couldn‘t you have constucted it a bit easier? ;)

Each Vesal-Viseur is a Thalam Wizard. Most are personal contacts with the Royal Viseur, and earned their positions through winning his favour.

Ever since the Truban province joined the Santharian Kingdom, there has also been a Vesal-Viseur for the capital vesal, known as the Exarch. Unlike other Vesal-Viseurs, the Exarch is largely an advisory position only. In the Regional Council, he is charged with mediating disputes and to relate the outcome of meetings to the Royal Viseur, but he has no vote power. However, at the same time, the Exarch has greater power than the Vesal-Viseurs, for when the Royal Viseur is on leave to a meeting of the Council of Linked Hands or other foreign duties, the Exarch is in charge of running the capital vesal, the state, and the Truban province as a whole.

That is disputable also, for he would have to be voted by the others as well. Maybe he just runs the affairs for the Thalambath duchy, not the whole province?

I think I posted the general question already: Is the Thane the duke of one of his dutchies of his province, or has he a follower as soon as he is elected for Thane?

Each Vesal-Viseur, like the Royal Viseur, has a branch of the Royal Throne at his service. However, the Templar Knights remain under the control of the capital Royal Throne, and so Vesal-Viseurs can be arrested by their own bodyguards if they break the law.

The Templums. The Templums are where the majority of actual state government, law enforcing, and general livelihood is run, ever since the Stauhur Revolutions in 1,238 a.S. Templums are essentially state organizations that are in charge of regulating the land and companies under their districts. All parts of society are divided up between the Templums, which are in fierce economical competition with each other. Each Templum owns a plethora of subsidiary businesses, which own their own smaller businesses, and each business owns its workers. Land or city districts are divided up between the Templums, and each Templum is charged with most of the government processes involved in their land or district. They provide land and education to their worker families, finance and regulate the various ventures under their control, and are charged with organizing their own guard force.

Templums are mostly headquartered in the capital city. The Templum of Tilling, however, is headquartered in Ankhat, where the majority of the farms are located, while the Templum of the Sword is headquartered in Eastwall. In the vesals and townships where the Templum is not headquartered, a smaller regulatory body can be found. These are essentially smaller ventures themselves, but which stand at the top of the pecking order in the other areas. They, like the Templum headquarter, are in charge of dividing up land between the smaller businesses and worker families. Not every Templum is located in every town, as they only operate in areas where they have sufficient resources for their field of expertise. However, every Templum has at least one embassy in every town, where their products can be delivered and then marketed to the surrounding ventures. If a Templum wishes to open up a larger operation in a new town, they must get approval by the Vesal-Viseur of that region, as well as having to pay a substantial startup cost, as they must buy land that is currently owned by another Templum.

As a matter of good business, the Templums have as much a responsibility towards its workers as the workers have towards their jobs. They are responsible for providing jobs, homes, and education to their workers, in return for the dedicated labour, as the workers perform the jobs required of them as well as provide children to replace them in the Templum’s labour force.

Each Templum tends to handle a specific area of business, though their child businesses provide support services that are not directly related to the primary business. For instance, the Templum of Sail primarily handles the construction and sale of ship hulls and the like, but will also have its stake in completely unrelated businesses in the Waterfront of the capital, where it is based, like small food shops. Essentially, on the land in which a Templum is based, all of the businesses belong to that Templum, even if that Templum’s primary market is a specific field.

This relates even to joint ventures with other Templums. For instance, the Templum of Trade has a small regulatory company in the Waterfront. The Templum of Sail owns the land, building, and workers of this operation, and all its profits and assets belong to the Templum. However, the venture is charged with overseeing trade in the Waterfront and directing larger ventures to Eltar Square if they grow too large. While this might seem to be economically damaging to the Templum of Sail, the Templum of Trade pays them a substantial cut of the profits of any business that is moved to Eltar, plus, any profits the company makes off of regulating trade that happens solely inside of the Waterfront all goes to the Templum of Sail.

Every smaller business within a Templum is allocated a portion of that Templum’s resources for their specific market. They are also required to provide for the larger Templum as a whole when they are successful. Competition between the subsidiary businesses is encouraged, so as to drive innovation and open new markets. Families are also free to open their own ventures on behalf of their parent Templum, provided they have the assets and market for the operation to be successful.

While the businesses are limited to the land of their Templum, their products aren’t. Each Templum and its smaller ventures sell their products to other areas within the Dunraich or outside of the state. There is constant competition between the Templums over markets, and just because the Templum of Tilling might be the primary supplier of foodstuffs does not mean they aren’t having to actively compete against the Templums of Sail or Trade over the sale of foodstuffs to the populace. If the Templum of Trade is offering lower prices on food to the other Templums than the Templum of Tilling, resulting in less of a market for their own products, it doesn’t matter how much of the farmland they control, they are forced to cut back, develop new, more efficient methods of farming, and/or lower prices. The only time that competition is curbed is during times of crisis. A Templum may be permitted to nationalize all assets of its primary function if ordered to by the Royal Viseur. If there is a famine, the Templum of Tilling could be allowed to nationalize all businesses and trade related to the supply of foodstuffs, in order to allow them to more efficiently regulate and ration the supply of food. In order to prevent huge price increases from the monopoly though, in these situations the Regional Council and the Royal Viseur directly regulate the Templum, usually through a state-appointed Archwizard, or Grand Pryus. In a war, this might mean the Templum of Sail for instance has to provide its hulls and ships free of cost to the Navy, though they will be compensated for their work by the state.

The Royal Throne is considered a Templum, but it is above all other Templums and can encourage them to direct their resources towards certain state-desired goals. This is usually done by granting benefits or lowering taxes to ventures working at the behest of the state. The Royal Throne can also open up state-funded organizations and institutions anywhere in the Dunraich—it does not need to own the land, though a portion of any profit made by the institution goes towards the Templum that owns the land, as compensation for the workers.

The Templum of Sail is currently under a state of local (capital city only) emergency powers, as a result of both increased pirate attacks and to make the capital city a more desirable trading port. As a result of this increased power, a Grand Pryus oversees them, and garrisons of Templar Knights are required to oversee their lands. The Templum of Sail currently has access to all assets related to ship and port construction and development, and is working on state plans to rebuild the capital city docks from wood into nor’sidian, construct additional Ship Houses to protect merchant vessels from storms, and to rebuild and retrofit Thalambath’s Navy.

That‘s a tiny bit complicated. So, are there fiefs (with a graven or how yu have called them?)? Borders? But a templum is not restricted to one dutchy, isn‘t it? But how is the ranking then? Does a Pyrus be mainly belong to one Vesal-Viseur(Duke) and a bit to the next? Or is the head templum always in one dutchy, but has footholds in other dutchies as well?

* The Pryus’
A Pryus runs every Templum. He is the top Thalam Wizard (by ability or by political power, the two often go hand in hand) in that organization. His role is to ensure that his operations run smoothly, that the businesses under his Templum are flourishing, and to handle the oversight of the child ventures directly under the Templum administration. The Pryus can create new ventures at any time, allocating assets and workers to begin its operation, as well as order an existing venture to close up shop so that its resources might be used for the greater whole—this is done generally when a business is failing to provide a suitable profit. The Pryus is also in charge of passing down laws from the Royal Viseur or local Vesal-Viseur, as well as instituting and enforcing the Templum’s own.

The Pyrus’ regularly meet in an assembly known as the Dictorial Council. The Dictorial Council is a council of the various Templum Pryus’ to discuss matters pertaining to the good of all the Templums. It is similar to the Regional Council, but does not involve the Vesal-Viseurs and purely discusses matters relating to business. Templums may make deals to jointly work towards a common goal, or settle disputes between rival ventures.

Underneath the Pryus is usually an assembly of other Thalam Wizards, and most of the top level ventures are owned by Thalam Wizards also, or else rich and powerful nobility. Rare is it that a commoner manages to achieve a level of prominence within a Templum, but it is not unheard of. Commoners run smaller businesses, however, and they have the potential to rise in power if their venture is highly successful (a prospect used to encourage hard work). Thus, being a productive worker is the key to nobility, outside of being a wizard, in the Dunraich.

Law. Most other regions within the Santharian Kingdom generally see Thalambathian law as very strict. Most rights do not exist in place of security acts, and so most individuals can be detained at will if they are deemed a threat to society, particularly minorities and foreigners. The Inquisitorium, the branch of the Thalambathian military that handles internal security, is also known to place agents into position to spy on suspicious individuals or companies. In fact, the state publicly proclaims that all businesses within the nation have at least one of these agents. Whether or not this is true is unknown, but as the agents have no identifying characteristics, it compels people to stay in line and respect the laws of the Dunraich.

Criminal justice is generally handled swiftly and harshly. Thieves lose their hands, political prisoners and potential spies are tortured and beaten for information, and executions are not uncommon. The Inquisitorium regularly screens the Royal Eyes (the Dunraich’s city watch) for corruption, and traitors often lose their lives. In addition, Eye patrols are on a constant rotation basis, and no patrol travels with less than four members, all of different units. This limits the chance for corruption, as Eyes are inclined not to accept bribes or commit other crimes as they have no personal bond with their colleagues, and each makes separate reports (which are collected and analyzed for accuracy by a third party institution) to their own commanders.

Magic use in the Dunraich is banned. Only the Thalam Wizards may use magic and even then, they must use it within the presence of the Temple of the Arcane or their own homes only. A Thalam may use magic in public if there is just cause, but they will be interrogated over the act to affirm it.

Relations between Kaizranian men and women with other races is also explicitly banned, and while intercourse between Kaizranians and other human tribes is permitted, it is extremely discouraged and unsupported by the state.

The Dunraich uses an inquisitorial court system. Individuals accused of crime are placed before a council of judiciaries and interrogated, and, along with whatever support evidence might be available, given a sentence befitting their transgression.

Generally, the civilian populace supports these acts, as they are considered to bring stability to the Dunraich and serve to weed out the weak from the strong.



Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 06:08:50
Climate
Hot. The Dunraich has some of the worst and best weather in the Rahaz’Dath region. The two major cities of Thalambath and Ankhat both lie on the southern side of the Norong’Sorno volcano, where they sit atop fertile soil born of the volcano’s eruptions. Clouds rolling in off the sea let down an irregular but plentiful rain on this western peninsula, giving a brief reprieve from the glaring sun and allowing plentiful crop growth.

Water running down from the snowcapped mountain would be a more stable resource.

On the otherhand, just north of the volcano lie the Lands of Plain, where death is the most common commodity. Here the heat is unbearable, as toppings of volcanoes warm the already arid terrain. Clouds of ash and dust in the air, smothering life in the deadly heat. No Thalambath city dwells here, and it merely exists as a large blight upon the Dunraich’s territory.

East of Thalambath, at the outposts of Eastwall and Southwatch, are what is commonly considered the typical desert. Arid planes of sands, of which are only the rare rainfall. Days are hot, nights are cold, and breezes are uncommon—and often bring along currents of warm air and sand.

At the peninsula, violent storms of sand can arise out of nowhere. They bury the ancient cities in fine coats of dust, and threaten to return them to them to the dune wastes, just as was done to the empire long before them.

I think Ankhat is quite save, there is no sand between Thalambath and Ankhat, but sandstorms could bother Thalambath, coming from the East.

Economy
The Dunraich has a very strong economy, ruled by a series of state institutions known as Templums, which dictate and fund every business within their district of influence (the land they own in any particularly city or vesal). It is largely a free market economy, and businesses are encouraged to compete with one another in order to keep prices stable, promote innovation, and, of course, to make money.

Each Templum owns a collection of large companies under its wing. These companies in turn own their own smaller ventures, down the line till the smallest worker stall. Within a single Templum there can be a wide range of businesses and products, though most Templums tend to concentrate on specific areas, denoted by the name of the Templum itself—IE Sail, Tilling, and so on.

* Resources
Thalambath’s biggest natural resource is fresh water and foodstuffs. The two major cities are both agricultural hubs, and the capital city has access to some of the largest stores of fresh water in the province. These resources are an ever-present market both within the city as well as in external markets like Strata.

Beyond these necessary resources, there is also Firestar paste, which has a variety of uses from construction to paint and sealant. Nor’sidian is a particularly strong product for construction, and iron and gold, among other metals, are mined in the northern mountains and shipped down to the main cities where they are used or sold elsewhere. Artwork, pottery, and tapestries are sold to foreigners, as are jewelry, especially that of the gem beetle kind. Other resources include obsidian, lead, copper, rhyolite, quartz, brimstone, burning stones, clay, feldspar, and glass.

The state also produces and sells magical and alchemical reagents of every kind, as well as unique craftwork like mithrilan weapons, which use forging techniques kept secret by the companies to produce metal that is tougher, lighter, and stronger than what can be found elsewhere. It is rumoured that some form of magic goes into the crafting of these items, as no other mithrilan manufacturer has been able to match these weapons in quality no matter how good the swordsmith.

Varcopas has  - very few --> production in the Mithrilan entry, better than those of Thalambath, who produces more.

Due to the competitive nature of the Dunraich, there are usually more than enough products for trade. Prices are raised when a resource becomes scarce, which causes new ventures to start up and try and meet the demand if the potential for a return is sound enough.

* Production
Each venture in the Dunraich is granted a patch of land or building by the ruling Templum, along with possible startup funds if the worker requires it and the investment is sound. Generally, these institutions “own” the land on which they work (in reality they are merely renting it from the state), though this can be taken away at any time if the business flops. If a company needs more land for their business, they are free to work out deals with other companies in order to purchase more land. Essentially, land ownership operates along a line similar to the ancient Krath Empire of the continent of Nybelmar, with private land leasing instead of land owning.

All assets of the individual companies, including the workers, are ultimately owned by the ruling Templum. Each venture is assigned an Asset Advisor whose job is to make sure that the venture is not abusing its funds and is working towards an overall profit. The advisor has no power in the individual company, but can determine whether or not it receives the funding it needs by his reports to the Templum’s regulatory body.

* Trade
In the past, Thalambath has been extremely isolationist, trading largely within its own borders. It is believed that Thalambathian companies and influence might have played a large hand in shaping Strata’s trade empire during its Golden Years, but otherwise the state only traded amongst its own ventures. After Thalambath became capital of the province however, and with the collapse of Strata, the Dunraich opened up its borders for trade and soon came to rival Strata. Early attempts however were not successful, as the government attempted to control the market manually and was unable to consistently guess the trends necessary for most of the nationalized companies to make a profit. Foreign enterprises tended to outplay the state organizations and many shut down.

This lead to the Stauhur Revolutions in the early 1200s, which reformed the state’s amount of control over the Templums and turned them into essentially banking institutes that own and finance their own enterprises by state funds but otherwise have no direct control, as seen today. Smaller ventures were granted private ownership and control, and market demand is determined by product sales and trends. As the funds of the various enterprises under a Templum tend to be pooled, this quickly built up their power and trade since then has flourished to the benefit of the state workers instead of the foreign traders.

Currently, interior trade is stronger than foreign trade. This is because the Templums make a strong effort to limit how much foreign products can enter the state market. When it appears that a foreign business is being too successful and is driving internal enterprises out of business, the state imposes larger tariffs on the imports. This slows down the market, and allows the enterprise to either recover, or for other ventures to startup and take control of the market.

Citizens are encouraged to buy Thalambathian-made products only. There is strong national incentive towards this, but costs are usually the ultimate factor. However, there is strong resentment towards the foreign market, so in this regard Thalambath tends to be the weakest of the three trading cities of Truban. This weakness is only in foreign goods, however. Its internal market is much stronger than either Strata or Varcopas.

I don‘t know when the province was formed, when the Stratanian empire broke down, have to do some research first.
How can you be so self-providing? I see you more as an area which is dependant on imports, because it has not enough arable land, nearly no wood..

Military
The Dunraich is the most advanced military power in the southern parts of Santharia. While Strata and Varcopas have both been known for their navies, neither has a particularly strong land force due to the desert expanse. The Dunraich, however, despite there being no real threat of war, ruthlessly trains its men to fight from a young age. All men are required to join the watch for a few years, where they receive most basic military training. Following this, many then join the vesal armies, where they receive more advanced instruction, and compete in mock skirmishes between their units.

However, the Thalambathian Army is fairly small. Even if the regiments of each vesal were combined into a single force, many northern duchies would still dwarf it. Instead, the Dunraich dedicates itself to extensive training regimes and uses the most advanced equipment available for its men. They painstakingly keep a full cavalry despite having to import horses from the northern provinces, most officers wear the light but powerful armour of the skin of a Rahaz’Estar, and all but the lowest ranked soldiers use mithrilan weapons. In general, the Army is equipped with light leather armour and mithrilan swords, as there is very little chance of facing armoured opponents in the Rahaz’Dath. The Dunraich also has a comparatively large archery regiment compared to other provinces. These archers are trained in the longbow and crossbow, as well as the necessary means to defend against an armoured melee combatant.

I wonder where they get this Rahaz - Dath skin armour from... I mean, the Shendar will not give them one of their most valuable secrets - how to treat this skin so that you can use it as an armour. Maybe I should clarify in the entry better, that this knowledge is not avaiable for outsiders.

Each vesal in the Dunraich is charged with maintaining a standing army at all times. In times of war, the majority of these soldiers are combined into a single Army (which is then divided into regiments and divisions) and commanded by the Templum of the Sword.

The Thalambathian Navy is currently a small force of fairly modern ship designs supported by some older vessels. New warships are being churned out at a very quick rate currently, due to the tireless efforts of the Templum of Sail, and the Navy is expected to expand threefold within a few years. The ships are regularly armed and armoured with the latest in naval designs and technology purchased from Aca-Santerra, and even old ships are often refitted to keep them up to date with modern technology. The Navy is very well coordinated, and frequently can be found on the seas engaging in mock tactical maneuvers.

Religion
The state religion for Thalambath is known as the Temple of Vierahn, named after the prophet Azan Vierahn. The chief god of the Temple of Vierahn is known as Avhan. Other demi-gods exist, risen from prominent Kaizranian leaders and religious figures in the past, but they are seen as servants and saints of Avhan, rather than gods to be worshipped themselves. Modern scholars see the Vierahn faith as a heavily altered evolution of the Avanian Faith that was once practiced by the Astar’Nuvic empire. Avhan is seen as a male form of Ava, and similarly is associated with dreaming the world into creation—though in Vierahn scripture, Avhan’s dreaming was deliberate, rather than accidental.

Avhan is considered to still be an active participant in the world. Worshippers believe in perfecting themselves in order to make them worthy in the eyes of Avhan, who will thus grant them passage to the next life. His wrath is also frequently documented, and the Kaizranians believe that it was Avhan’s fury that struck down the Astar’Nuvic Empire for its sins in believing in the false faith—the elven worship of Ava.

Avhan is most often associated with fire and light. The Norong’Sorno is considered to be a massive altar to Avhan, and the Injera and the moon are his eye. His eye is open during the day to provide warmth and guidance to his people, and closed at night so that they might rest. Full moons are the exception, and they are seen as Avhan watching his people while they rest but without as much light so that they might continue to sleep. Full moons are thus also seen as a warning against criminals and murderers, for even in the darkness, Avhan is watching.

A gold, flourished open eye symbolizes the Temple of Vierahn. The eye is symmetrical in shape on both sides, and surrounded by a triangle within a square, with radiant lights beaming outwards from the center.

What for a submission, Fox! Please do see, that I admire you, even though i have to fight you ! ;)


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 06:10:15
Now, lets see: :)
I hope I say nothing wrong or forget anything in my hurry!

My main point is, as said several times above, that you are trying to describe the Dunraich, not the Duchy of Thalambath! You need to take more the look of an outsider. I see, that it is difficult and maybe not necessary, to write

The Capital City of Thalambath --   okay

The City of Ankhat ---  okay

The Township of Bezalhur -- has to go entirely, maybe it has existed in former times
(lava is flowing down the slope..)

The Fortress of Eastwall --yes, but see my comment and picture

The Border Keep of Southwatch - if really necessary, maybe a remnant from former times to protect against the evil things originating in the Yar‘Dangs?

The Border Keep of Northpoint --not now, see above

The Golden Reach - not really a place where somebody would want to live.

The Lands of Pain - inhabited except those tombs at the south eastern border.

Northern Mining village/town? An underground village? (instead of the Nirmenith Mountains)


Would be the area ok for you I placed on the map?

Some comments:
I would like to have the volcano more or less untouched till its base, it could be the templum of the .. Something religious? I can‘t find it now.

I just reread parts to find, where you wrote something about land distribution. Don‘t you have any, has each templum (with a certain task) land here and there? Then my lines on the map are dispensable!

The Dunraich in its beginning ?? (second attachment)

I gave you quite some more land including a lake. I think you need some arable land for the first time elsewhere, the place between Thalambath and Ankhat will be stones and ashes. But I would like it to vanish fairly soon. You could build up quite an empire in 2000 years - until it destroys itself with cutting all trees. Deforestation with desertification following. The lake vanishes more or less also and will be a saltpan. Would that be ok?

What I wish to be untouched are the swamp and all east of the marked line. To have a reason I invented (and will add to the Rahaz-Dath entry) a kind of Strangeness, to protect the desert and the Shendar from any encroachment .

I can‘t find the right word now. I had this strang eforest already in the Old empire entry, remember? I thought I build on that.
Everybody who wants to enter the desert will get a kind of nauseous, disorientated, loose any sense of reality. Effects like we only know from places near the void occur. So nobody can live there. Except the Shendar. Some are immune to this, and only they can be guides through the desert. That ,gene‘ can be inherited, it runs only in the female line though. (A boy can have it, but his children will not have it.)
The other Shendar are vulnerable to those effects, but not as much as other people, for they eat something, which they give to their passengers also. This stuff (plant, mixture?) helps to overcome these effects. As already Shendar children get it, they will be kind of immune, to a prize however I have to think of.

Does this sound good? (No, you can‘t conquer the whole Rahaz-Dath ;) )

This ,effect‘ spreads with the time, so most of the  yellow marked  area is inaccessible due to this void-effect.

Don‘t know, if that makes sense, I‘m tired and need to do other things now. Hope tis helped you for now!


Finished with posting! Fox, you need to have oversees colonies at some time, so you can have a great empire despite the restriction in place I put on ypu!


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 October 2010, 15:55:51
Ups, I forgot to attach the pics!

Note, the Shendar territories should not be on the second picture (Dunraich) and the yellow colour less wide spread, I just forgot to use an extra layer.


Title: Re: The Dunraich (State) of Thalambath (updated to Talia's requests)
Post by: Fox on 02 November 2010, 08:04:48
Sorry for not taking a look at this until now, Talia. I was kind of out of Santharian development matters for a bit. Thanks for the comments! I'll post some responses when I get some time to.