Santharian Development

Organization and General Discussions => General Santharian Discussions => Topic started by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 December 2009, 18:20:48



Title: Words we should not use...
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 December 2009, 18:20:48


I like to open a thread where we can discuss, which words should not be used in our entries, because they sound too modern. And once we have agreed about something, we should add it to a list (or leave it) , maybe even keep a record which ones which were discussed are allowed (e.g. in a sticky of the language forum)

We have listed already some, like genes, genetic, we say alchemy and not chemistry.

We have discussed already

science, scientific

It is used already frequently, especially in older entries. But its use was questioned at some point. Should we stay away from now on, or does it not sound too "scientific" and modern?


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 11 December 2009, 18:28:06
One I've wondered about is "evaporation".  I mean, it sounds pretty scientific to me, but then what do you use instead?  Santharians must have noticed that water disappears when you leave it out.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 December 2009, 18:44:40
The German word is much more harmless..

Drying out?


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 11 December 2009, 18:48:34
I'm personally fine with evaporation, mainly because english doesnt have anything better than 'drying up' to replace it with, which isn't always right for the context.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 December 2009, 19:05:44
Native speakers, make up a new word!

"hazation" lol


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 11 December 2009, 21:05:13
From Wikipedia (the fountain of ALL knowledge):

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a prediction or predictable type of outcome. In this sense, science may refer to a highly skilled technique or practice.

I think that, based on the fact we are set in a level of civilisation somewhere around the late medieval/early renaissance times (correct me if I'm wrong), we would have a similar notion of science to this.

But I think there is a difference between something BEING scientific and something being a this kind of science. The entry goes on to talk about how contemporary usage of science revolves around the scientific method, which is certainly not something I'd want to include in Santharia.

However, I think describing things as 'sciences' is ok, as long as they keep their fantastical element within them.

Deci


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 11 December 2009, 21:43:34
Maybe an option would be - so that we not always have to carry the whole meaning of the word with us - to use a slightly different word, our own derivation from latin, so to say. So everybody would recognise it at once, but it would be a hint, that is something slightly diferent.

The Italian say scienza, the Spanish people ciencia,maybe that would be an option. A native speaker should make something up :)


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Stormraven on 11 December 2009, 22:26:24
If we must use a word for science then I agree we must come up with a new word, perhaps something in Thergerim as the dwarves are rather inventive.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Alysse the Likely on 11 December 2009, 23:11:10
Although that might be more of a gnomish thing, them being the major scientific/alchemistic race on Santharia.  Though there's no reason the dwarves wouldn't have their own word for it. 


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 12 December 2009, 00:39:22
I disagree. With so many new words for very common terms, it becomes impossible to keep track of what is what. Now if it is difficult for a developer, imagine how disorientating/alienating it must be for someone who has stumbled across Santharia for the first time!

I see nothing wrong with either evaporation or science. I would not object to coining new Santharian terms for these, so long as these are used in addition to the ordinary English words and not as replacements. :)


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 12 December 2009, 00:55:06
I think some words are appropriate depending on the race or tribe. As Alysse said, Gnomish entries would probably have more contemporary terms as they are the science oriented race of Santharia. Orcs, on the other hand, wouldn't use them. I think a heavy scientific or technical entry would be fine. But not in a myth would modern-ish words be used.

*rambles off, not making sense...*


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Stormraven on 12 December 2009, 02:19:12
I am paraphrasing but Einstein once said that technology advanced enough would appear as magic to a less advanced civilization. Perhaps we should consider making some of this "magic" and using said terminology for it. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 12 December 2009, 02:35:35
"famed for her scholarly studies of minerals" instead of "famed for her scientifical studies towards mineralogy"?


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 12 December 2009, 02:41:07
I think some words are appropriate depending on the race or tribe. As Alysse said, Gnomish entries would probably have more contemporary terms as they are the science oriented race of Santharia. Orcs, on the other hand, wouldn't use them. I think a heavy scientific or technical entry would be fine. But not in a myth would modern-ish words be used.

I think Azhira brings up a good point: it really depends on context and audience. Who are we talking about here? Gnomes may use 'science.' And I believe that there would probably be one or two tomes in Ximax concerning the "Science of Car'all" or the "Science of Xeua," as just a more academic way of saying "This is a book explaining Xeua!" Let us consider the use of the word 'science' divorced every so slightly from our 'modern' associations with it.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Stormraven on 12 December 2009, 06:01:10
Quote
And I believe that there would probably be one or two tomes in Ximax concerning the "Science of Car'all" or the "Science of Xeua,"

Rayne brings up a good point, "The Scholarly Excerpts of Car'all is rather heavy handed. We just need to be careful about the context in which we use Science.

Wait...did I just argue with myself...Got to get ore sleep

*wanders away muttering about travelling beds*


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 12 December 2009, 11:13:14
Context is everything when it comes to vocabulary it seems.

Quote
"The Scholarly Excerpts of Car'all"
- I personally find such a title appealing and fairly "santharian", but I can understand the simplicity of the word "science" when used in such a context.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Stormraven on 12 December 2009, 14:17:46
After a decent nap I find it appealing as well...Scholarly excerpts does have a certain something but I am not sure perhaps the gnomes can use "science" and the rest of the races who are less advanced can use scholarly.
Maybe "Scholarly Dissertations of Car'all"


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Lionhorse on 13 December 2009, 06:19:21
Maybe we should make a research about the old words that have been used in the past of the real world. There might be some medieval words which may have something in common with those "science/scientifically wordies", which we try to replace. I don't know... this is just a suggestion. :grin:

As I understand there is a problem with replacing the word "science". Well, we can replce it with a word "craft", because it is a same thing: craft - an industry or trade generally involving particular skills transmitted through apprenticeship under a master of the craft. By the later Middle Ages crafts were normally regulated, under municipal supervision, by their leading practitioners, who might be united in a guild: hence the modern usage, "craft guild" (something like Santharian Ximax School of Magic).

Anyway, you can try to look here (http://historymedren.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&zTi=1&sdn=historymedren&cdn=education&tm=19&f=00&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.netserf.org/Glossary/), if you need to replace some words.


Title: Re: Words we should not use...
Post by: Sparkle on 09 August 2010, 01:26:43
Artes Magicae = magic
Artes Liberales = grammar, logic, arithmetic, music, astronomy etc
Artes Mechanicae = tailoring, agriculture, architecture, hunting, trade etc

Sort of a magic-science-craft division. And it's medieval.