Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Places and Map Design => Topic started by: Seeker on 15 December 2009, 11:51:45



Title: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Seeker on 15 December 2009, 11:51:45
OK so I was having a hard time imagining how big our world is in "real" terms.  How far apart are these cities?  How many amazing beasts could fit into this little area.  Can all these tribes really fit and still have such diverse cultures?  etc. etc.

So I did an overlay of a few Santharian areas onto my beloved country (and one of Middle Earth).  What I discoverd is that Santharia is pretty big.  Especially if you are traversing it on foot or horseback.  This is good to know as we develop more and more stuff.  Hope you find it useful.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 15 December 2009, 12:14:46
Awesome! Thanks for the comparisons, Seeker! :D


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 15 December 2009, 20:40:36
A good idea, Seeker! And now for Europe, please!

Maybe I should add something like this to my distances thread (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12613.msg150662.html#msg150662) as well, and if only for the development forum. Maybe if I add them with an external link, they are not really on the site..

And finish it for the non-Santharian areas also!

PS: If you need to take distances, take them from the Manthria map, the other might not be valid/precise  anymore.



Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Aos on 15 December 2009, 23:44:07
Is Nybelmar really that small? !


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 15 December 2009, 23:46:08
Yep. It is about the 1/3 of the size of Sarvonia, even when looking at the maps directly and not the US comparison. It just doesn't have the length the main continent has.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 15 December 2009, 23:53:33
Wow...looking at that, I can see the Mists region alone is larger than most of the individual New England states!  :speechless:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 16 December 2009, 00:15:54
Yeah, Nybelmar is about 2500 by 1500 km (strals)

In comparison, South Sarvonia is about 1200 by 2500 (not that much smaller, but rotated 90 degrees)

and North Sarvonia is.. well.. friggin HUGE :P (I estimate it to be about 2,5 times larger than its southern half.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 16 December 2009, 00:17:17
But of course, i'm open to the idea of enlarging Nybelmar a bit, if you all think it's to small :P


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 16 December 2009, 00:48:42
No Mira, not with me! If you send me some cookies though, I might do a greater error bar and trim the size in your requested direction ;)  :buck:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 16 December 2009, 01:35:01
*points at his ongoing Nybelmar Map project* I could just double the scale on the new map  :evil:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 16 December 2009, 02:12:31
Pah, more pixels, but not more strals!  :P


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Jenna Silverbirch on 16 December 2009, 03:20:57
Wow- thankyou, seeker :) That's really incredibly useful. Now, I knew santharia was big but I've got to admit I didn't picture it being that big :speechless: Having a brain tuned to the european scale of things, where france seems huge, and all :D


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 16 December 2009, 04:00:14
I meanth altering the numbers on the scale stick Talia.. gods know i dont need more pixels than i already have..


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 December 2009, 00:37:34
oh dear... OH dear... Oh DEAR... OH DEAR!








*this ruins everything*

All those tribes cannot possibly fit into that space. I need to cut the ones we mentioned down to one third - and that is being generous.






*signs himself up for a meditation retreat somewhere far far away*

:P


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 December 2009, 00:39:44
I don't suppose I could say, due to its closeness to the Void, it takes longer to walk within the continent than to sail around it, thus accounting for the sizes shown on the maps? :D


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 December 2009, 01:09:20
.... im still in favour of upping the scale :P


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 21 December 2009, 01:39:16
.... im still in favour of upping the scale :P

I'd say up the scale for ALL of the maps. But yeah, at a minimum, up Nybelmar at least.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 21 December 2009, 02:06:18
You don't know of what you speak! The monstermap is soooo huge, enough with that!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 December 2009, 02:15:58
We don't want to make the maps any bigger! Just the actual surface area of the continents.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 21 December 2009, 02:21:04
You gotta have some Dragons in Nybelmar...but need some more space for them as they are far from small lol


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 21 December 2009, 03:13:40
Caelereth is bigger than the earth (I think). Just do some more mountains, Mira, then your area will increase,  ;)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 December 2009, 03:50:20
Dear goodness, no! Earth has a surface area of 510.072.000 km˛ (wikipedia) Caelereth has a surface area of 2*r*pi= 100.480km˛ (32.000 km in diameter, according to your own list of distances r=16000) Which means Caelereth is 0,19699179723646857698520993114698 % of the earth, surface-wise.

Approximately.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 December 2009, 03:59:15
0.2% !?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 December 2009, 04:26:27
Does this mean making everything approximately 50 times bigger?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 December 2009, 04:43:35
0.2 = 1/500 of 100 ;P

And Caelereth does not necessarily need to be the same size as Earth.





 :idea: It might be time to start purchasing land in northern Sarvonia. If global warming comes to Caelereth, Azhira and Alysse might become the richest people on the Disk...


PS: Surely we do not need so much space for.. well... mists you cannot walk through anyway. Maybe we could surgically transpose some of that landmass to... I don't know... say... West Nybelmar?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 December 2009, 05:39:26
Heh, Vacation Resort "Osthemangar"?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 21 December 2009, 05:48:32
Heh, Vacation Resort "Osthemangar"?

At Resort Osthemangar, you can check out but you can't ever leave!  :evil:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 21 December 2009, 05:50:42
Sounds like the perfect holiday destination for Sordoc! Allow me to deliver him his all expenses paid vacation there ... Who wants to contribute?

'Money for the Sordoc holiday fund' ... one way ticket to Osthemangar.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 21 December 2009, 05:53:49
Mira, I'm not talking of the watermasses, but when we thought about size, we realised, that e.g. Southern Sarvonia is quite huge. We compared it with South America and such. I didn't want to talk about surface squaremeters


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 21 December 2009, 06:25:11
Sarvonia ---> 11960 strals x 9200 strals. Even if we consider this to be a square block of solid ground, that gives us 110.032.000km².. (which is a bit odd, given that the disk would be only 100.480km².. I reckon i might be doing something wrong here...)

Ah, right.. the CIRCUMFERENCE of the disk is 100.480 km. the SURFACE is 8.038.400km²
My bad, realy.


South America --> 17,840,000 km² ... that is more than two times the ENTIRE DISK OF CAELERETH..


As for the earth->disk ratio, that would now amount to the disk being roughly the size of 15.76% of the Earth.

A lot better, but still not much.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 December 2009, 00:10:23
Mira, what's the purpose of this? You are probably right with what is bigger/smaller. I won't go back and search why I had the impression of Sarvonia or Southern Sarvonia being really big. I think we thought about travel times and if Strata would really be impressed what happened in Nyermersys. There should be somewhere VERY old threads, but I see no reason why to spend time with that I could use elsewhere. As if you have not enough space in Nybelmar and a LOT to do there and flesh out as well. Maybe you gave your tribes too much room. When I think what happened all in Germany and the surrounding countries/realms - the many tribes there, the conflicts etc. So your square strals should be enough, don't you think so?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Sanash the Wayfarer on 22 December 2009, 13:54:09
*The Wayfarer wanders in*
Bear in mind, gentle-folk, that mappage is a verrry difficult process - p'rhaps it'd serve us all better just to accept the travel times as written, and communicate in days and fortnights rather then peds or strals?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 December 2009, 23:32:20
Well personally Im not happy with the idea of Nybelmar being so miniscule...its only a few Texases long!

I had imagined the Peninsula of Shar to be as big as that!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 December 2009, 23:51:27
No way, Deci! If we would double the size, e.g., then Sarvonia would become too big, you need to think smaller ! :P


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 December 2009, 23:52:10
Why cant Nybelmar be bigger but Sarvonia stay the same?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 22 December 2009, 23:57:27
Something isn't right here...

According to Talia's calculations, the diameter of the Disc is 32000 strals.

Using the Santharian measurements calculator:

32000 strals = 19884 miles

The diameter of Earth is 7926.3352 miles

So...Caelereth is much larger than Earth.

In other words, the Disc is bigger, but the continents are small. I propose we simply bump up those map scales.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Seeker on 23 December 2009, 00:33:59
Here are the comparisons to Europe.  I am glad this post is helping.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Seeker on 23 December 2009, 00:39:57
We should probably use the circumference of the Earth (not the diameter since Caelerath is a disk not an orb)  which is 24,901.55 miles at the equator.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 23 December 2009, 01:00:36
I think size of the diameters etc. is not as important as the area, since that is realistically the most important thing. So what if its the same crossection as the earth?

So here's so Deci maths:



EARTH MATHS

Im treating Earth as a smooth sphere for simplicity:

Surface Area of a sphere= 4 x pi x r^2

Radius of Earth (at the Equator)= 6,378.1km

Therefore:

Surface Area of Earth= 4 x 3.14 x (6,378.1 x 6,378.1)
                             = 510 942 804  km˛



DISK MATHS

For practical purposes, the Surface of the Disk is basically a 2D shape

Now earlier on its said the Diameter of the Disk is 32000 strals

Area of a Circle= pi x r^2

                    = 3.14 x (16000x 16000)
                    =803 840 000 strals

1 stral= 1km

Therefore:

Surface of the Disk= 803 840 000km˛



COMPARISON

Basically the Disk's area is bigger than the earth, but the water dominates its surface more so than on terra. I just propose the continents are made bigger!!!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 23 December 2009, 01:01:28
Here are the comparisons to Europe.  I am glad this post is helping.

I can't deny that I don't feel slightly disappointed with this. We're developing landmasses that barely fit into Europe, or Alaska. I'm at a loss for words. Kinda takes the steam out of things real quick.  :undecided:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 23 December 2009, 01:07:37
I agree, Azhira.

The problem I see is not that Caelereth as a whole is too small, since it isnt, but the ratio of land to water is skewed extremely on the Disk....

I'm still standing by the 'Make Continents Bigger' argument...


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Fox on 23 December 2009, 01:25:10
Problem with expanding the size of the continents, at least in the case of Southern Sarvonia, is that it would conflict with many developments. The Manthria map would  likely have to be redone, for instance.



Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 23 December 2009, 01:27:18
I dont think Nybelmar has this problem, especially since there is space for it to go and there is a new map in the works anyway


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 23 December 2009, 01:29:43
Also, no mini-maps there :)

(i seem to have misplaced to 0's somewhere in my calculations.. probably reduced 16000 to 1600 by accident.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 23 December 2009, 01:39:52
I just realised something..


Koldars map is to small!

I thumbed out the screen with his scale stick, and got a measly 3000 stralls minus a bit, east to west. But Talia's reference measurements give; Nybelmar (East-West, North-South)  --> --->6785 strals x 4646 strals

Decipher, our continent is four times bigger than we always assumed! And Seeker's overlay is probably wrong as well, if he used the scale given on Koldar's map.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 23 December 2009, 01:42:01
Mira, do that same thumb thing with the North and compare with Talia's measurements. I can't do it since any math more complicated than 2+2 gives me headaches...


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 23 December 2009, 01:43:57
gotta go catch a train now, tomorrow, ok?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Seeker on 23 December 2009, 01:44:29
I am all for bigger.  But do not be too dissapointed in the current sizes.  The Unites States for example hosted hundreds of tribes of native Americans before us Europeans came in.  When you consider our Santharians are traveling by foot and horse we really do have a lot of room.  (Try walking from Copenhagen to Rome.)  Perhaps we need to be careful how big we make the tribes and how populous our dragons are. but overall there is alot of room for culture and creativity in the current size.  As we "fill"  the continents with rich cultures and details I am sure the rest of Caelerath will open up to development.  In ten years time we could also have a need to create new continents. :)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 23 December 2009, 01:59:44
Mira asked me to verify this '4 times bigger' thing before he left so here it goes. I counted pixels in paint and came up with this:

KOLDAR MAP OF NYBELMAR

I actually used a ruler, since this had a scale, and got an approximate width of 2500 strals for Nybelmar

WORLD MAP OF DISK

The width of the disk is 32000 strals...ya? Its also 540 pixels wide. So:

540p=32000

p= approx 59.3

Measuring the pixels of Nybelmar you get 113. So:

113p= N

113 (59.3)= 6701



So Nybelmar is 2.68 times bigger than we thought...but I had always imagined it MUCH bigger.

I still point towards an expansion of scale.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Seeker on 23 December 2009, 02:05:20
Deci are you saying the scale on the Nybelmar map is currently incorrect?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 23 December 2009, 02:18:29
Yes, it is, but its being redrawn by Mira anyway.

In any case, I still think 6700km is not that large a landmass.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 23 December 2009, 02:27:05
Keep in mind that we have a number of stories and entries that involve details of travel. As you increase the scale, it will take longer for an individual to travel from one place to another, which may mess with the time-line of such stories.

Is there a use in being so precise in terms of the size of these continent? How would making the maps bigger or smaller effect development? We aren't that precise when we do entries, in general--I don't, for example, say that the Goltherlon Forest is XX furlays long, or that the Aerelian Lakes are XX strals wide. Is there some other use enabled through this precision?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 23 December 2009, 02:31:26
Having more area to use in development I would assume.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 23 December 2009, 02:47:11
Rayne, the problem is essentially this:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 23 December 2009, 02:53:25
But we aren't lacking in areas to develop. It's one reason (I assume) why Artimidor tried to keep development in Santharia: there is still a ton to be developed! By making the maps wider, you have more forests, more plains--the geographical landscape becomes more expansive, but it doesn't negate the attribute: the plains are still plains, the forests are still forests.

And Coren, were you trying to post a picture or something? I don't think it came through...


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 23 December 2009, 05:18:13
I really would like to know, why Coren thinks as well, that there is a problem.

Nybelmarians, I think I have to be a bit straightforward now. Please forgive me, but I have not the time to be a bit more polite so short before Christmas and you know me anyway  :evil:

Keep on dreaming. But it has to stay a dream. Why?

1. It would require to redraw the main big map and I would not want to ask Artimidor to do it, it is work which is, imho, not necessary , at least I have seen no reason yet.

2. Scaling the whole thing up (just doubling all sizes) is not possible, for the development on the Sarvonian continent is based on the scales we have. All the wars and relations just don't work on a bigger scale.

3. You knew, how big your continent is when you started developing, now it is even three times bigger, so be content with what you have.

What would an increase in scale bring? More quality or just more quantity? More possibilities for new tribes, or even races?

I think you have pretty many already, very exotic ones and a lot of possibilities to let them interact. Do subtribes. Why don't you do smaller maps like the Manthria one, add there tons of towns and villages? Make your forests, swamps and deserts more detailed.
Invent different customs for your subtribes - there you could write endlessly. Did you know, that often just hundred years ago every valley, every village in Lower Bavaria e.g. had a special habit to dress, to live, different customs just a few strals away . My fellow students had difficulties to understand my dialect, just because I was raised 150 km away form my university, and that after the great mingling of German tribes.  You don't need to have huge areas to be able to develop. Think European, a lot can happen in a small space.

I think I have not seen a single reason, why you want to have more space available. Did I miss something?

No idea, when I can peek in a again


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 24 December 2009, 08:56:45
I agree with Talia on this one. There would be little/nothing gained from making the map bigger. Nybelmar still has a lot that needs to be developed (as does Sarvonia).

I find many people who come to Santharia want to make tribes--lots and lots of tribes! But there are other things that need to be done, too, including (in particular) description of places. You should eat everything on your plate before you ask for seconds!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 24 December 2009, 09:13:12
Quote
You should eat everything on your plate before you ask for seconds!

Why did I get the sudden image of Widow Corney grabbing hold of Oliver's ear in Oliver! when I read that last bit?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 24 December 2009, 10:02:24
Talia, the Nybelmarians already got what they wanted; a bigger Nybelmar.

And it requires the re-drawing of just one single map, namely the Koldar map of Nybelmar, which would be done anyway. Personally, i'm quite happy with that.. (Don't forget, we're expanding to 2,68 times our original size in both north<->south as east<->west, giving us an effective increase of land mass of.. oh, 700% or so?)

@Rayne
Actually, most of the Nybelmarian lands have their tribes assigned and such. We just didn't tell you lot yet ;)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 24 December 2009, 13:13:12
Miraran: I have a feeling that the "Scramble for Nybelmar" (Yes, that's a historical allusion! A cerubell for whoever guesses correctly what it's an allusion to!) was based out of a desire to create more tribes, as the ones in Sarvonia were more or less claimed/developed.

I'm still not certain what increasing the landmass gives you in terms of development.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 24 December 2009, 15:47:46
Oh, I copied but it seems failed to paste what I was about to say. Give me a day to sift through the other posts and reply again please.

I too am disheartened by the size Nybelmar turned out to be - but it seems for different reasons. I am not worried about making even MORE tribes (Heaven knows, if I have to invent or remember another Nybelmarian name, I shall simply be stunned - and never recover myself, most likely, except to gasp and die). In a sentence, my problem is that most of what is already described/planned simply does not work with these sizes...

But I think we should not rush ahead. First we need to get a map and really get to grips with these distances. Secondly, we need to identify all the problems the current sizes cause. Only then can we decide whether we need to expand Nybelmar, and if so by how much.

Currently, we are all talking in the abstract without reference to any concretes. Unsubstantiated comments flying back and forth only inflame the confusion/disagreement.  I do not yet have enough information to speak, so I shall stay silent until I do.

Let us all take some time to contemplate.

;)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 24 December 2009, 20:43:51
Does 'us' refer to Nybelmar, Coren?

I'd happily wait and investigate to determine whether my plans were bigger than the lands I've put them in, and then I suppose we'll  have a more concrete movement towards (or away from) expanding the continent.

Cool?



Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 24 December 2009, 20:45:37
Oh and Rayne...Would that be the 'Scramble for Africa'?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 24 December 2009, 21:01:45
I can't imagine we still have a size issue here.. with a factor 2.68 scale enlargement from the Koldar map, we've gained more than enough land for our plans! (referto: 700% calculation on page three.)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 24 December 2009, 21:30:16
Im still not sure how you came to this 700% figure....


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 24 December 2009, 22:44:55
Oh and Rayne...Would that be the 'Scramble for Africa'?

::presents a cerubell to Deci::  ;)


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 25 December 2009, 07:08:51
2.68*2.68=7.something

We're talking about surface area, not line distance.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 25 December 2009, 13:54:55
My question, though, is why are you trying to increase the size of the continent? What more do you gain, developmentally, by enlarging it? Saying that you have more surface area tells me the effects, but not the benefits. What is the benefit of having more surface area?


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 25 December 2009, 15:01:02
My question, though, is why are you trying to increase the size of the continent? What more do you gain, developmentally, by enlarging it? Saying that you have more surface area tells me the effects, but not the benefits. What is the benefit of having more surface area?

Because fundamentally, having a *bigger* area to develop is just something nice to have. More land, more to add and develop. Its a mental thing. Because no one wants to develop something *small*. The bigger it is, the more power one feels having control over it.

Sorry, I just had to get all "psychological" on everyone.  :buck:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 25 December 2009, 15:08:31
But the forest is still a forest--just a bit larger. The plain is still a plain--just a bit more expansive. Technically, there IS nothing more to develop. And because we don't use dimensions in place entries, territory entries, etc. (we do not say that XYZ forest in five leagues wide and two leagues long, for example), making the continent bigger does nothing at all--so why do it?

The psychological factor may be one thing, but that seems like a bad reason to me!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 25 December 2009, 15:42:00
Can we PLEASE stop arguing unproductively without any facts to support our reasoning?

Rayne, you know I like you very much, but I feel I must be forthright: You keep asking the same question. It is a fair question: "I don't see why you need Nybelmar to be bigger. A bigger plain is still a plain etc". And I asked for some time to research (to see if I could find any other inconsistencies in addition to the ones I already have flagged up in my mind) and to write out my reasons. And I already stated that "Bigger is Better" was not my reason for expansion. So I do not see what repeating the same question over and over and over and over adds to anything.

Please.



Mira, Decipher - you too. Please can we freeze this discussion. I will open a new thread in the Nybelmar board later today, entitled "What problems does the current size of Nybelmar cause?". There we can research and then list all the issues we are faced with. Then we will discuss if there is a way to get around any of these WITHOUT expanding the continent. FINALLY, if there STILL are some burning problems - crucial to the coherence of what was already created - that can only be solved by increasing the landmass, we can open a new thread to discuss and to put our proposals on the table.




Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 25 December 2009, 15:52:35
Coren, you are not the only person in this debate. YOU may not know all the facts or reasons, but it seems as though both Mira and Deci have a good idea of WHY they want to expand Nybelmar. My questions are not addressed to you: they are addressed to them. I don't quite know what I said that suggested to you that they were.

You have already given your formal departure from this debate until you have done further research. Do not make decisions for other people: if Deci and Mira know why they wish to expand Nybelmar's map, do not silence them. It is not your place. And do not silence me in inquiring to their reasons. That is a severe over-stepping of boundaries.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 25 December 2009, 21:33:40
I have the feeling something is being skipped over in this discussion.

1) Nybelmar does NOT need to be enlarged, because;

2) The Koldar map of Nybelmar was scaled wrongly. Fortunately;

3) That map was already being re-drawn, so a new, correct scale can be placed on the new map, affectively solving the whole issue.


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 25 December 2009, 23:43:26
Oh right Miraran! With the continent growing to almost 3 times its current swize already...the Nybelmarian problem seems resolved.

It seems that what is already established has been more generous to us that what we planned to change  :grin:


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 25 December 2009, 23:44:51
Yes, its almost like christmas came earl.... actually, it came right on time!


Title: Re: How big is Santharia- really
Post by: Fox on 26 December 2009, 00:03:40
In fact, Nybelmar is easily as large, if not larger than, Northern Sarvonia, if you look at the full world map.

And that's pretty large... if Seeker redid his comparisons with the version of Nybelmar from the full map, it'd easily cover most of the United States.


(http://www.santharia.com/maps/world/caelereth.jpg)