Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Languages and Runes => Topic started by: Capher on 09 October 2010, 03:41:53



Title: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Capher on 09 October 2010, 03:41:53
If I recall, I believe that our beloved Bard Judith was going to work on a Draconian language or tongue. I have searched all over and do not see it, therefore my conclusion is that she did not do it either because she lost interest in it, which I do not blame her for her partner, me, was supposed to help but I was not much help and disappeared for awhile during that time. *feels ashamed* Sorry Judith.

Anyway, I guess I am asking you dear Judith, if you are not too busy, if you would like to get together and we can toss a few ideas and some R'unorian Brandy around and down to come up with a Draconian tongue. However if you choose not to, I understand and I will go from there.


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 09 October 2010, 07:11:24
Caph, drag Kalina into this as well. She's our resident draconian expert. If I wasn't so darned terrible at languages, I'd join in this one.  :P


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 09 October 2010, 10:55:16
Yay!  Yay yay yay!   The great dragon himself wants to sit down with some brandy and talk about language development?  I can't express how honoured I am.  I shall hunt up my ancient notes imjitly and find my stash of R'unorian cocktail mixes.....


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 09 October 2010, 18:54:09
Hmmmm.....it appears that all the work on Draconic / Drakonic was removed at some point, as it was very fragmentary and the key developer had vanished.    Also, I cannot find ANY of my notes.  This could be distressing, as I did put some thought and creative energy into this at one point.  Or this could be good, as it would give us a chance to start 'from scratch' without preconceptions.


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 10 October 2010, 08:24:01
See my proposal in the religion thread.

I believe that a draconic language is possible, if only spread through the years by the cult, inspired by actual draconic language long ago. Perhaps the cult knows the location of runes or dragon ruins that contain such a language.

Two places where one could actually read (or study) the draconic language would be the islands of Karma'Goor and Kalta'Goor (where ice dragons live currently ) and Wyrmrot Spire (dragon bone fields and the lore of Ezorrak'lagdan).

if you want to find physical evidence of a language of dragons, those places would be ideal as they are dragon related and hard to study (field trip to the Mists anyone?  :cool:)


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 October 2010, 09:55:22
Thanks for the research and the concept, Az!   Obviously this will be pretty fragmentary, based on the little we 'know' about dragons in Caelereth... but I like the idea of a cultic faith based on draconic 'teachings'....    Let's see what Capher and I come up with from extant knowledge and what words we can provide you.

 Even a cult that has wrong, distorted, or misapplied beliefs about the race of dragons and what they believed might still have passed on words and phrases in 'Drakonic', by oral transmission - the memorized chants, songs of worship, and even entire prayers.  (Without meaning any disrespect in the comparison, rather like Latin functioned  in the Catholic church for centuries: otherwise uneducated people who could recite the Paternoster and the liturgical passages in a tongue not their own...)     

We had discussed the possibility of 'Drakonic' functioning like Latin and then decided that since it was too fragmentary it could not have influenced Tharian that extensively.  Now, of course, Gnomic fills that linguistic space very tidily and far more appropriately, as a technological tongue.

I suspect Drakonic might wind up more as German functioned - the language of philosophy and religion - for many years.  Think of Kant and Luther, and imagine them having been great, powerful, hermit dragons writing from their caves in the Swiss Alps... :) 


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 10 October 2010, 15:47:57
Immanuel Kant the Terrible, Destoyer of Villages... :grin:


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 October 2010, 23:06:01
or Marti'lutherion the Black Iconoklast, Priests'bane and Indulgences-Incinerator.....   :D


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 11 October 2010, 04:36:25
That's much better than mine...  :angry:

Ludvi'ttgenstein the Cynykal, Lyngvistic Phylospher and Razer of Mysconceptions  :shocked:


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 11 October 2010, 08:29:10
It has been frequently bandied about among the magic-inclined members that the language of magic is actually ancient draconic. It's a completely unofficial fact, of course, but trying to tie in the dragon cult linguistics with Ximaxian would be an interesting direction...


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 October 2010, 12:30:07
(giggles so hard she accidentally drops a Brownie Point off the table for Ath to find later when he is sweeping up....)

@ Az:  yup, I'm hoping to incorporate that concept!  Who do you think *started* the rumour?   But making 'unofficial' facts 'official' is a particular small delight of mine, so thank you for the reminder....


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Capher on 11 October 2010, 14:48:46
Yep, I do believe that Bard Judith started that rumor, however I believe I have been trying to get the point across not only on the RP side but on this side too, that the Draconian language is tied into the Carrr'ol or Xuea (I know my spelling is terrible) however, in my mind or idea not all dragons can do magic, only the Adamant's and their offspring can, Capher's, once I get around to his entry which should be soon, is in actuality Ol' Dem' Brey's grandson (speaking in human terms) He is probably the only dragon left who has such powerful magic running through his blood.

Judith we had at first talked about making like some sort of sign language for the language, if I recall, however I believe we both came to the conclusion that we both did not like it. When the muse does hit me I bandied around with perhaps more a Russian style of speaking, using mostly constanants and only one or two vowels, that way it would sound more gutteral. On another occasion, I thought that perhaps the language could be based upon the old Jewish language, Aramaic, this time using more vowels than consanants.

Anyway those are just some ideas that had popped into my head over the years.  I am not good at languages; I can come up with ideas, but how to implement them into some sort of a viable new language is way over my head i am afraid.


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 October 2010, 15:31:03
Well, it wouldn't have to be nearly as complete (shouldn't be, to tell the truth) as our extant main tongues.  It should be more similar to Mermish in the amount and variety of vocabulary.

And it will be very diverse and incomplete, in that we only have fragments, phrases, a few words here and there remaining intact or corrupted as placenames, old chants and songs, and various incantations and spells.  It would be like trying to reconstruct Latin from the Paternoster, some inscriptions on Roman tombs, and the quasi-latin spell names from Harry Potter... :)   

The wonderful thing about this project will not be coming up with a complete word list, but a realistic 'back-story', sources, and vintage-y layering, to create texture and history where nothing was before!

I love the idea of Aramaic fused with Russian as an inspiration starting point.  And let's put the verb at the beginning of the sentence!   :D


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 11 October 2010, 15:40:47
Always end a sentence with a preposition! (Or a proposition, as I recall one senior female member correcting me with :D )


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Bard Judith on 11 October 2010, 17:05:33
(bats lashes)  My, fine form you must have been in.   Personally, I love propositions of which they are located anywhere and how!    As to the language, I do believe the Kuglimz like to invert their word order (ask Alysse the Likely, carefully.) so we shall have to consider how to make Drakonic unique...


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Capher on 12 October 2010, 08:57:14
So Judith perhaps when Capher's entry, especially when his history is finished, that could give you some ideas of how to "realistically" weave and stitch along with texture the tapestry of the Draconian Language.

I need to do the research on these draconian cults and see if somehow Capher could have influenced these cults in someway. Or another dragon? Or perhaps they found symbols on rune stones that were used during the War of the Chosen, or even earlier than that!!

*Ohhhh my head hurts for thinking so much.*  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 14 October 2010, 00:05:50
I know I am not around much because of work and school, but keep me in the loop... please. 


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Capher on 14 October 2010, 02:15:11
Hi Kali, I hope everything is going well with you and yours. It would seem that you are the Dragon mistress around here, I did not know, but I welcome any suggestions as does the Dame Bard Judith as well, mostly her. ;)


Title: Re: Draconian Language or Tongue.
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 20 December 2011, 03:32:30
I would like to revive this discussion, since I am making my way back to the forums after a too long a hiatus.

Thoughts and ideas to come soon!