Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Kelancey the Green on 04 August 2012, 03:42:31



Title: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 04 August 2012, 03:42:31
Name:  Vitrether, 'N'ether', Ether, Sweet Oil of Vitriol

Overview:
Vitrether is a clear, colorless liquid at room temperature, and a gas at human body temperature. It is produced largely by gnomish alchemists for use in surgical procedures and as a solvent in alchemical euxperi. In the operating theater, vitrether may be used to ease childbirth and to sedate someone for surgery. However, some healers prefer herbal concoctions over ether because herbal remedies do not have to be administered throughout the entire surgery. It is very volatile, being a self-sustaining flammable liquid at temperatures around 16 periks (http://www.santharia.com/standards/measures_and_weights.htm#Temperature).

Description:
Vitrether is clear and colorless in any of its forms.  At room temperature, it is a liquid, but at human body temperature, it is a gas. Vitrether has a characteristic pungent yet sweet smell and taste, akin to sugar dissolved in aceed. Gnomish alchemists have been able to freeze it at extremely low temperatures through application of magical frost, estimated around -17 periks (http://www.santharia.com/standards/measures_and_weights.htm#Temperature).

Method of Production:
The alchemist first must add 1 part vitriceed (http://www.santharia.com/alchemy/tabula_peryodiq.htm) to 3 parts alcohol, and she gargles this concoction in a large round bottomed vessel. She then heats the concoction to 3 1/2 periks, no higher. She must distill the resulting vapor through a distillation tube. She shall pour this liquid into a column of charcoal to extract any remaining water and undesirable byproducts. Finally, she lets the resulting liquor drain downward to collect the vitrether in a meabul or flask, and seals the container with wax or a glass stopper.

Areas of Production:
Vitrether is still produced by Gnorian alchemists, principally for their work on water-insoluble metal (http://www.santharia.com/resources/metals_of_caelereth.htm) complexes.  It is readily available throughout the Santharian kingdom, fetching prices of 1 to 2 copperbards for a 1 tot flask.

Usage:
Solvent
The more common use of vitrether in modern times is as a solvent for liquid-from-liquid extraction, since it is poorly soluble in water.  It can separate out alcohol or other liquids from water.

Anaesthetic
Historically, vitrether was commonly used by chirurgeons and healers for its medicinal properties as an anaesthetic, muscle relaxant and soporific.  Before and during surgery, the person undergoing surgery would inhale vitrether through a sponge, and would lapse into a deep sleep for the duration that they continued inhaling the fumes--presumably for the duration of the surgery.  The experience of inhaling vitrether was described as "going under" or "going to the Netherworld", which gave rise to the colloquial name N'ether.  However, waking from surgery after inhaling ether comes with numerous unpleasant side effects, including hallucinations, nausea, vomiting, and headache.  

Because of this, and because vitrether is flammable at not-too-high temperatures, it has been largely replaced in the chirurgical theater by other anaesthetics which are more predictable, nonflammable, and come with fewer side effects.  For example, lesrin'mar herbal mixture (http://www.santharia.com/alchemy/lesrinmar_mixture.htm) is a potion to be drunk before surgery, and produces sleep with anaesthesia for a period of time depending on how much potion is consumed. However, lesrin'mar mixture requires ingredients which come from opposite ends of the Sarvonian continent, sometimes making it hard to come by. An alternative used by some healers is cha steeped from petals of the wild rose flower (http://www.santharia.com/herbarium/wild_rose.htm), which grows rampantly in shaded forests of Southern Sarvonia. This cha produces anaesthesia and sleep for a prolonged period of time, up to two days or more.

History of the Industry:
The method of production was discovered in 129 by Jinkar Irfi Hrelvild.  In his time, vitriceed was known to alchemists as oil of vitriol.  As a result of the sweet, acrid smell and taste of the liquid, he coined the term sweet oil of vitriol to describe his discovery.  More recently, vitrether was described by gnomish alchemist Periklesius as an anaesthetic in taenish.  He characterized its alchemical properties, and detailed the beneficial effects of ether for medicinal purposes. He also offered the abbreviated name of 'ether' which is also acceptable to the alchemical community.

Myth/Lore:
The Hammersfeld Parchments (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,15314.msg196217/topicseen.html#new) of 203 a.S. allude to a midwife giving Lady Aerryn ether to swap her dead baby with another woman's live male baby.  The importance of another heir in the lineage of King Thaenos, is a matter left to the historians to sort out.

More recently, people of lower castes have taken to adding vitrether to alcoholic beverages to induce some of the muscle relaxing and anaesthetic effects. Because it is not too hard to come by, and because only small amounts are added to a beverage, people have been known to host 'ether parties'. At these ether parties, people seek to escape their daily woes and drug themselves for a short period of perhaps one or two hours with minute doses of vitrether added to their drinks.


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Mina on 04 August 2012, 12:03:54
Just pointing out that, unless Talia changes it, the Hammersfeld Parchments has a letter from 203 a.S. mentioning the use of ether.  So you might have to adjust the date. 


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 04 August 2012, 13:12:27
Oh, oops, thanks Mina! I missed that minor detail. (heehee)


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 05 August 2012, 04:09:06
Okay, I think I have the bare bones ready for comments.  Please could I ask for a read-through and impressions, thoughts, comments?


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 06 August 2012, 00:57:27
Edit made:
Jabir Ibn Hayyan changed to an Avennorian male name, Jinkar Irfi Hrelvild.


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 August 2012, 00:59:09
Hi Kelancy, just back from my trip. I'll  Look over it later, be prepared for a lengthy Talia Uri!  :)


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 07 August 2012, 03:43:28
Hope you had a lovely trip, Talia. Please share any photos, if you got any?


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 August 2012, 06:11:45
Tomorow, and I fear, you need to wait with my comments a bit longer. Bed calls...


Quote
The experience of inhaling ether was described as "going under" or "going to the Netherworld", which gave rise to the colloquial name N'ether.

lol


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 08 August 2012, 01:22:04
Hello Kelancy!

A start only, for I have not yet sorted out all that stuff in my head (I'm still researching)

First - you have already a good start here, especially that N'ether part made me smile.  :thumbup:

It would be (nearly) excellent, if we were content with a more or less 1:1 translation from Terra to Santharia with exchanging some names. But we are not, right? We want a Santharian 'ether', maybe even a combination out of ether, chloroform and laughing gas?

And you want me to subjugate you until I'm content? right?  :grin:  Otherwise flee now! Well, no, stop, we'll do it together, don't run away!
 :huh:

So let me start, but please don't throw yourself in work until I'm finished.

Stop, a last thing: You will find proposals, ok! Even if I will write a 'you must' or 'you need to' or 'I don't like' , don't bother to tell me, that what I write is nonsense.

And - the Hammersfeld Parchment should us not hinder to develop/find it later, I can use a (new) herbal concoction also.



Name:  Ether, 'N'ether', Sweet Oil of Vitriol

I do like the names a lot, especially 'Sweet Oil of Vitriol', but it is not Santharian. We should have a main Santharian name  and ether as a second, the 'Sweet Oil we need to 'anagram' at least a bit.

Brainstorming:
Vitriceed    Sulphuric acid    Found in mines containing high levels of brimstone and volcanic areas.

Vitricether, Vitriether, Vitrether, Vitether Shortform 'Ether', colloquial N'ether

I'm not sure, if we can gather enough vitriceed in volcanos, I fear we need to take those lovely crystals (Vitriols - Goslarit, Melanterit, Chalkanthit) and burn them. Just let us say, that we don't need temperatures as high as on earth...  
And let us assume, that, unlike on earth, the effects are different, depending on which mineral we take? (No?  :cry:)
Chalkanthit (blue, copper), Baveras' ..(whatever) --> gives Baveras' breath and helps especially during childbirth?  ---> Sweet Oil of Baveras?
OR Nehthor (has also the color blue)

Goslarith (white..) ..maybe not for healing purposes?
Melanterit (green)
... needs more thoughts, but do you think that would be a way to go?

You could  claim, that it is this way and at cite another alchemist who says, that this is nonsense.

Have to stop here, more later!


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 08 August 2012, 06:03:30
Overview:
Ether is a clear, colorless liquid at room temperature, and a gas at human body temperature. It is produced largely by gnomish alchemists for use in surgical procedures and as a solvent in alchemical euxperi. It is very volatile, being a self-sustaining flammable liquid at temperatures around 16 periks.


That's described very well and very clearly, but that's not what most people would want to find in an overview. It is not so important, how this substance looks or who produces it, but what it does. So I would start with that it is an anaesthetics etc, then that it has other uses as well and put what you have at the end or in description.

Areas of Production:
Ether is still produced on a large scale by Gnorian alchemists, principally for their work on water-insoluble metal complexes.  It is readily available throughout the Santharian kingdom, fetching prices of 5 to 10 sans for a 1 tot flask.

Not so cheap, it is not this easy to produce! ;)

Where is it produced, in which place? Is one famous for it? Is it available in Northern Sarvonia also? (You don't need to write about the other continents though..)
'large scale'  - not sure about that,  vitriceed is not so easy to obtain, or is it? It is up to us to decide!
Depends a bit on your decision what to do with my proposals.

In general: This paragraph is a bit difficult, you use gnomish scientific language (work on water-insoluble metal complexes.) , not everbody understands that. Make it a bit more... mysterious. What about theuse in medicine?

Usage:
Solvent
The more common use of ether in modern times is as a solvent for liquid-from-liquid extraction, since ether is poorly soluble in water.  It can separate out alcohol or other liquids from water.


I'm sure there is more to add :)


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 08 August 2012, 06:21:49
Anaesthetic
Historically, ether was commonly used by chirurgeons and healers for its medicinal properties as an anaesthetic, muscle relaxant and soporific.  Before and during surgery, the person undergoing surgery would inhale ether through a sponge, and would lapse into a deep sleep for the duration that they continued inhaling the ether--presumably for the duration of the surgery.  The experience of inhaling ether was described as "going under" or "going to the Netherworld", which gave rise to the colloquial name N'ether.  However, waking from surgery after inhaling ether comes with numerous unpleasant side effects, including hallucinations, nausea, vomiting, and headache.  Because of this, and because ether is flammable at not-too-high temperatures, ether has been largely replaced in the chirurgical theater by other anaesthetics which are more predictable, nonflammable, and come with fewer side effects.  For example, lesrin'mar herbal mixture is a potion to be drunk before surgery, and produces sleep with anaesthesia for a period of time depending on how much potion is consumed.

I think you should expand on this, more ideas will come tomorrow.

Please omit the link to lesrin'mar, it is an entry which would need thorough revision, for there are in my oppinion some impossible combinations in it and other things I don't agree with. Two plants are combined which will rarely find together (the one only growing in the Narfost, very far in the South, the other only in Northern Sarvonia, on top it says, that 'This mixture is used widely throught the Sarvonias,'
and more..


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 09 August 2012, 02:07:36
Oh boy, I've certainly got my work cut out for me on this one!   :P

Just some initial response to your much needed critique, Talia:

I agree that the Name has to be Santharized. I like Vitrether, mind if I use that one?

I know that the recipe for Terran ether requires a strong acid, but I hadn't thought of using alternatives to sulfuric acid (Malthanune, vitriceed). Good idea, I'll 'euxperi' with that!  ;)

The Overview will clearly have to be overhauled, just as you suggest.

What do I do in the case of a seeming contradiction regarding lesrin'mar? The entry says that it's commonly used in Santharia, but as you astutely point out, the ingredients come from opposite ends of the continent. I just figured that traders of exotic herbal supplies could provide alchemists with much-used components like alik'ran and althmon. If this doesn't fit with practices of trading, I can amend or eliminate the bit about lesrin'mar.

How would you propose that I expand on the Usage of ether as an anesthetic? I thought that it could be more of a historical usage, but it doesn't *have* to be that way. It could still be common practice to use ether in present-day Santharia for surgery; what do you think?


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 August 2012, 05:37:23
Let's go on!

First a question, I don't exactly know, what you mean with this - what did I propose?

Quote
I know that the recipe for Terran ether requires a strong acid, but I hadn't thought of using alternatives to sulfuric acid (Malthanune, vitriceed). Good idea, I'll 'euxperi' with that!  ;)

My proposals was to use the three different forms of vitriol and give them different properties, or at least the resulting ether. However, we need to take into consideration what Judy has introduced already:

Quote
Malthanune (Vitrinune, Vitrium, Vitriol)
Also known as “Vitrinune” or “Vitrium”, this fire-classified substance occurs in bluish-green nodules, slightly reflective but also appearing powdery to the eye. Touching the surface of unprocessed Malthanune to verify this, however, is a dangerous test; the substance will ‘melt’ and cling to skin in an oily greenish film, burning it. If not immediately ‘drowned’ or neutralized by water with potash mixed in it, this ‘vitriol’ will begin to actually eat into the flesh beneath, scarring it. Handled with care, Malthanune is useful in cleaning and etching; the nodules are dissolved in a solution (the secrets of which gnomish alchemists keep to themselves) to create Vitriolic Malthanune, its formal name.

BUT, as Judy has described what is called in German 'Adlervitriol= Eagle's Vitriol' , a mixture of copper and iron vitriol, we could introduce the other three minerals also. (blue, green and white) (I will do that)

BTW, as Judy has introduced the name vitriol, Oil of Vitriol and Sweet Oil of Vitriol can stay also, we could invent additional names though.

But first, what do you think of it? Would this be a way to go?

The ether resulting out of the blue-green stuff could have especially strong properties..  

I have to admit though, that I don't know, what for ether was used apart from anesthetics. We could invent some though, which would be much more fun than being seriously about it.

But  I need your ok for this, before I set my mind to this.

That would be part of usage..

******

History: I'm thinking hard about it. Maybe it would be more fun, if it was newly invented and we (I mean you ;) ) could add more speculations, have it still in use. Skip the Hammersfeld Parchments. If it was invented (found .. I've got a picture in my head.. *grin* )  in this century, we could still write enough.. first how it was discovered, then the different minerals researched, then used as anesthetics, and discussed  etc, compared with herbal stuff.

BTW, you don't need to stick to what ether does on Terra! Positive and negative..

Another idea: Let's now take just the anesthetics part. Why not combine it with herbs (or their gases) and see, what effect this has?

If I had only more time and not a couple of other projects....  

What I found very amusing are those parties which took place when ether and the laughing gas were found - did you read about them? I think we should include them in a way or another.

Well, tell me what you think of splitting up the properties or if you would just go with Malthanune, might be enough!

CU!






Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 August 2012, 17:01:43
Kelancy!

After I slept over it, I think it would better not to expand this entry too much. So, let's abandon the idea with the different vitriols, but stay with Malthanune as only stuff which gives us the vitriceed. However, with adding different things it is still possible to alter the outcome and the desired effect.

Somebody could alway expand the entry (or do a new one) and introduce the different vitriols.


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 14 August 2012, 03:13:50
Talia, I added some explanations yesterday in yellow, saying that lesrin'mar may be hard to one by. I also described 'ether parties' as a common way for people of lower castes to escape their daily woes.

How does this look now? I'm not sure that I satisfied all your comments with these edits... :huh:


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 16 August 2012, 06:19:17
Kelancy, I'm veeeery busy with visitors, so I can't comment in detail nor give more suggestions how to expand on it. Maybe let this sit for a while, you are busy with your masterwork anyway, I fear ;)

BTW, congrats! :D


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 18 August 2012, 07:14:06
Name:  Vitrether, 'N'ether', Ether, Sweet Oil of Vitriol

Overview:
Vitrether is a clear, colorless liquid at room temperature, and a gas at human body temperature. It is produced largely by gnomish alchemists for use in surgical procedures and as a solvent in alchemical euxperi. In the operating theater, vitrether may be used to ease childbirth and to sedate someone for surgery. However, some healers prefer herbal concoctions over ether because herbal remedies do not have to be administered throughout the entire surgery. It is very volatile, being a self-sustaining flammable liquid at temperatures around 16 periks.

Description:
Vitrether is clear and colorless in any of its forms.  At room temperature, it is a liquid, but at human body temperature, it is a gas. Vitrether has a characteristic pungent yet sweet smell and taste, akin to sugar dissolved in aceed. Gnomish alchemists have been able to freeze it at extremely low temperatures through application of magical frost, estimated around -17 periks.

Method of Production:
The alchemist first must add 1 part vitriceed to 3 parts alcohol, and she gargles this concoction in a large round bottomed vessel. She then heats the concoction to 3 1/2 periks, no higher. She must distill the resulting vapor through a distillation tube. She shall pour this liquid into a column of charcoal to extract any remaining water and undesirable byproducts. Finally, she lets the resulting liquor drain downward to collect the vitrether in a meabul or flask, and seals the container with wax or a glass stopper.

I don't know, if we have meters which can measure the temperature so precise. Here would be a point, where you could allow your imagination to flow and add something which does not look like transferred directly from simple wiki (apart from some santh names)

Areas of Production:
Vitrether is still produced by Gnorian alchemists, principally for their work on water-insoluble metal complexes.  It is readily available throughout the Santharian kingdom, fetching prices of 1 to 2 copperbards for a 1 tot flask.

Expand a bit! As I proposed already, go e.g. in some detail where it is produced. Please look at the comments I gave already.

Usage:
Solvent
The more common use of vitrether in modern times is as a solvent for liquid-from-liquid extraction, since it is poorly soluble in water.  It can separate out alcohol or other liquids from water.

Expand please, phrase it less scientific.

Anaesthetic
Historically, vitrether was commonly used by chirurgeons and healers for its medicinal properties as an anaesthetic, muscle relaxant and soporific.  Before and during surgery, the person undergoing surgery would inhale vitrether through a sponge, and would lapse into a deep sleep for the duration that they continued inhaling the fumes--presumably for the duration of the surgery.  The experience of inhaling vitrether was described as "going under" or "going to the Netherworld", which gave rise to the colloquial name N'ether.  However, waking from surgery after inhaling ether comes with numerous unpleasant side effects, including hallucinations, nausea, vomiting, and headache.  

Because of this, and because vitrether is flammable at not-too-high temperatures, it has been largely replaced in the chirurgical theater by other anaesthetics which are more predictable, nonflammable, and come with fewer side effects.  For example, lesrin'mar herbal mixture is a potion to be drunk before surgery, and produces sleep with anaesthesia for a period of time depending on how much potion is consumed. However, lesrin'mar mixture requires ingredients which come from opposite ends of the Sarvonian continent, sometimes making it hard to come by. An alternative used by some healers is cha steeped from petals of the wild rose flower, which grows rampantly in shaded forests of Southern Sarvonia. This cha produces anaesthesia and sleep for a prolonged period of time, up to two days or more.

Kelancy, I asked you to omit lersin'mar, because that entry is too contradictory, not to add another inconsistency to the compendium by describing it differently. In addition I had hoped, you would add some more properties or other effects and not only to transfer it more or less 1:1 . I do not find many things here which are special to Santharia.

What about my proposal to mix ether with other things, herbal 'gases' and have different effects? Maybe one plant lessens the negative effects, other makes it work faster. Don't stick to what you know from earth.
I would not describe it so negative, describe the positive sides also.

History of the Industry:
The method of production was discovered in 129 by Jinkar Irfi Hrelvild.  In his time, vitriceed was known to alchemists as oil of vitriol.  As a result of the sweet, acrid smell and taste of the liquid, he coined the term sweet oil of vitriol to describe his discovery.  More recently, vitrether was described by gnomish alchemist Periklesius as an anaesthetic in taenish.  He characterized its alchemical properties, and detailed the beneficial effects of ether for medicinal purposes. He also offered the abbreviated name of 'ether' which is also acceptable to the alchemical community.

What's that?

Myth/Lore:
The Hammersfeld Parchments of 203 a.S. allude to a midwife giving Lady Aerryn ether to swap her dead baby with another woman's live male baby.  The importance of another heir in the lineage of King Thaenos, is a matter left to the historians to sort out.

Just skip this one , so that you are free to do history as it is the best for Virether.

More recently, people of lower castes have taken to adding vitrether to alcoholic beverages to induce some of the muscle relaxing and anaesthetic effects. Because it is not too hard to come by, and because only small amounts are added to a beverage, people have been known to host 'ether parties'. At these ether parties, people seek to escape their daily woes and drug themselves for a short period of perhaps one or two hours with minute doses of vitrether added to their drinks.

That's a bit lame, sorry.

Kelancy, I think you are still too much clutching to the earthen stuff. Let your imagination flow and invent something new, expand on what you have. You did research, so why not mention Malthanune. History might be difficult for a newbie, but you could at least try to bring something up.  There are many things I proposed, mentioned, abolished, but I'm not even sure, you read all or understood, what I meant. Could well be, that I expressed myself unclear. I don't know, how to explain better, what I mean or where to I would like to lead you. Writing parts myself to sow you what I mean is not the best idea, but I'm run out of others. You could make so much more out of this submission.

*sigh*

Well, just try to add some more stuff and we will have an acceptable entry. :)


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 18 August 2012, 23:19:46
Thanks, Talia. This 'kick in the pants' is actually just the feedback I needed.

It looks like I will need to majorly overhaul this entry, which I will do when I have a couple or more hours free to reinvent Vitrether. I'll do some more research on site to make it more Santharian.

Again, thank you for your time and feedback!


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 19 August 2012, 15:52:47
Well, Kelancy, I'm not sure if I haven't been too strict. After all, the subject was forced upon you ..  :grin:

If you won't mind somebody else tampering with your submission and sharing the entry, I would write some parts. Add here and there. Introduce the "Show, don't tell", though this was meant for writers, not for commenters ;).

The problem might be though that you have an entirely other style than I have and that it is not what you want to have.

Please be honest. If you don't want my intrusion, just say it.


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Kelancey the Green on 20 August 2012, 00:31:12
Actually, Talia, I would appreciate your welcome "tampering" with this entry.  I seem to be having a lot of trouble with it.  You're absolutely correct that I'm sticking too closely to what I can find on Wiki, but I'm having a writer's block on how to make it unique to Caelereth.

Here are some ideas I've come up with thus far, to see if you like these or not:
Pulverized alik'ran root dissolved in vitrether could help with problems related to women's monthly courses.
Mallowdrop sap mixed into vitrether will help with both sore throat and stomach ache.
Trinity herb leaves can be crushed and added to vitrether to enhance the sweetness of it and add to the sedating property of ether, to soothe an uneasy mind.
Nightshade tincture added to vitrether helps with spasmodic illnesses such as strangling disease and vomiting, and help a heartache.
  (Please forgive the promotion of my own bush.  :))

As for the lore, I thought it could maybe be used by the Sanhoirhim as a food preservative when going out to sea?  That way, when they were out at sea and didn't need to preserve any more dry rations, then they could drink any remaining vitrether as an alternative to alcohol!  Just a thought.


Title: Re: Ether, Alchemical Stuff
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 20 August 2012, 05:12:00
Alright!   :)

But as I have visitors I will need some time.