Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Santharian Artists Workshop and Resources => Topic started by: Artimidor Federkiel on 27 July 2013, 17:22:22



Title: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 27 July 2013, 17:22:22
Here's a very early version of the work in progress monster size map of the province of Vardưnn I've continued to work on recently. The whole thing will be as large as the Manthrian map, so posted below is just the bottom right bit of it where I've done more work now, e.g. with Alvang and the Ancythrian Sea. I post what I have here now because the map includes details on the Jernais and surroundings, complete with the locations of the settlements, which were recently specified in Amabella's entry on the Heath. Also included are Rayne's specifications on where swamps are supposed to be located and rivers, and some of Judy's details on the Fores are also in there. As you can see this is still a rough map in many parts, so swamps, settlements and rivers have just been placed without properly embedding them, and there's still a lot to be done. And of course, the complete map is a matter of months rather than weeks. It stretches until Milkengrad and then Churican, a part of the map which I've already pretty much finished and posted somewhere.

Anyway, the reason for posting this version is for one to show you some progress, and then to give regional experts a chance to have a look and perhaps correct a couple of important things before I nail them down. A map like this is a very complex thing, so it's essential to get some input in case key locations aren't depicted correctly as of yet.

Ok, so here we go - even this part of the whole map is pretty huge, so maybe download it first before opening it in a proper picture viewer, because it won't fit into the Forum frame that easily.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Amabella Catston on 27 July 2013, 23:26:35
I must admit that your map is actually more accurate than my own diagram of it - in my text I describe 10 farming villages, Denring, and Jernais (12 in all), which is what you have, but I have an extra village in my diagram.  :D

I'm guessing that the bridge will come later, as this is a work in progress. Cardos looks very majestic with those towers overlooking the river. My only question is about the overall number of houses there - I'm not sure if Cardos would be the size of the central town of Denring or smaller, since Cardos is a farming village rather than a town? It's up to you though, as I don't know how badly Denring was damaged by the raid.

It is nice to actually see all of the small roads connecting the villages, as well as each village looking unique.  :cool:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Seeker on 28 July 2013, 10:51:43
I just love your maps Art.  That mountain/volcano is magnificent.  Heckra is it?  Personally I think the maps like this really bring these areas alive and make me want to draw more pictures.  Wonderful wonderful.  I have no comment on the accuracy of the map, only because I don't know much about this area.  Well done.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Garret Arroway on 28 July 2013, 14:14:49
This is out of the range of Vardynn, but I would like to eventually finish my entry to the Roan Forest if no one objects to that. It is located in the Xaramon area, but this map shows part of the area I had planned for this, between the lower fores and the Ilian Plateau which is why I mentioned it at all.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 28 July 2013, 16:04:28
@Garret: Roan Forest: Sure, go ahead with that one, no objections there :) If there's anything on this map that needs to be adjusted in regards to it, just let me know!

@Seeker: Yeah, that's the Hèckra, quite a beast of a volcano. Some added smoke should give it an even more menacing look eventually - we'll see how that will work out. :)

@Amabella: Yeah, I've apparently missed one village between Denring and Liosa, not intentionally though. Added one in now, and have also switched Cardos and Denring and made Cardos now a much smaller village (see attachment). How's that?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Amabella Catston on 02 August 2013, 01:48:33
I really like the new sizes of Denring and Cardos - Denring really stands out now as a town.

I have changed the number of villages from ten to eleven so the map, diagram, and description all match. Would it be too much trouble to place the newest village further south, along the diagonal road, instead of where I have it in the diagram? I would prefer to change the diagram. That way the three villages described in March of the Darkest Knight - representing Caeaar's Hold, Dekthyr, and Dalash respectively -  all lead up along the path to Denring.

It looks like Rayne has three areas of water which are coming from a source other than the volcano (south of the city of Jernais). I guessed that they were coming from Twinnean Peak? I modified my entry. If they are coming from a different source than Twinnean, let me know and I will change it.



Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 August 2013, 04:03:21
Ok, will move this new village further south as you said, Amabella! :) Everything to achieve the utmost perfection!  :thumbup: And yup, the rivers Rayne sketched in her rivers map are supposed to come from the Twinnean Peaks, so all fine then if you updated the description of the entry.

I'll have a week free at the end of August to make substantial progress with this map, so expect an updated version of this part of the region then!


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 13 August 2013, 05:31:40
Art, I want to marry your maps.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 14 August 2013, 02:53:22
Now you only need to look for a priest to perform the ceremony and you'll live happily ever after :D


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Seeker on 14 August 2013, 07:14:18
By the way when I first saw this map I must admit I was slightly disappointed.

From the title I thought I was going to see a map showing the location of monsters.  Then I realized I was a bit foolish.   :undecided:

Sorry Coren. The maps and I are already betrothed.  And they are very faithful.....I think.


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 28 August 2013, 02:43:50
Here's an updated version of Vardýnn... Aside from the already completed Twinnean Peaks you also see a lot more details, color and texture corrections and further expansion of the map up north. So it's progressing bit by bit :)

If anyone has corrections to suggest, please let me know in time!


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 03 September 2013, 03:33:30
Here a few further previews on what I'm currently working on. You see e.g. Alvang (already posted above in part, but rivers and mountains have been updated now). Also changed: the appearance of the Low and the High Fores, now done in similar style, mainly differing in size (duh!). Also included: The Crow Hills, the Vonntron and the City of Milkengrad. Hope you like... Complaints, suggestions, blah, blah... well, you know where to find me :)

Next to do: Merge the Silvermarshes map (up to the northwest of the whole thing) with this main map. The Silvermarshes map as we have it now is a tad inaccurate as I noticed, mainly concerning river positions etc., so it will require some additional work, but should look really nice once it's all put together in the monster map...


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 04 September 2013, 04:46:41
Let there be hobbits! The adjusted Silvermarshes are now successfully merged with the master map. :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Rookie Brownbark on 04 September 2013, 06:44:08
Are those tiny little hobbit holes?  They're so cute!   I love the highlighting too - the rivers and mountains look like they've just caught the sun.  :cool:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 04 September 2013, 14:38:29
Yep, yep, hobbit holes all around, Rookie! Actually this map already exists on the site in the Silvermarshes entry and was mainly done by Judy, I only brushed it up a bit more a while ago. The challenge now was to integrate it into the master map as it was a bit off here and there, but all is good now :D

P.S. Nice to see you drop in, Rookie! :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 06 September 2013, 01:11:40
Looks very good so far.   :thumbup:

With the way you drew Milkengrad though, I'm slightly worried that people not familiar with it might think it actually does occupy the entire island.   :shocked:

From the title I thought I was going to see a map showing the location of monsters.  Then I realized I was a bit foolish.   :undecided:
Somehow, this happened to me too.   :lol:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 06 September 2013, 02:54:25
Vardynn Province: Duchy of Ancyros

I have a question. According to Rayne's Vardynn Masterplan (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,15119.0.html), Ancyros is one of the seven duchies of Varydnn. But the only settlement of note I see is Alvang - which, I believe has been deserted since the Witchking's Night in the time of Saban Blackcloak?

So where is the Duchy of Ancyros ruled from? Do we know anything about the major settlements and towns of the Duchy?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 September 2013, 03:56:37
@Mina: The town buildings and map elements of course are primarily representative, so the actual size might vary. On the other hand I'm not sure if it is mentioned exactly on site how large Milkengrad is supposed to be exactly, but it should be sort of an exception compared to other towns methinks, as it has a very distinctive position in history as well. Should the size be way off I can of course adjust it somewhat and make it more realistic, but the idea was to make it a bit like it's own kingdom there. I guess Milkengrad is a bit more than just a town.

@Coren: Well, for one the map isn't finished yet. So there's enough opportunity to add more settlements or enlarge an existing one in case we see the need for it. It would help if key developers (e.g. Rayne) would be around while the map is being drawn, so that these things can be pointed out in time. Once the map is filled with all kinds of stuff we need to make a sort of plausibility check any and see if there are still some more adjustments to make.

Right now the map I posted here (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,15487.msg198066.html#msg198066) shows two major settlements south and southwest of the Twinnean Peaks. The last map shows Holm and Acht between the arms of the Vandrina, but the way it looks these aren't Vardưnn anymore, but both on Nermeran territory. So I would say a major city is still in order. A perfect location would be south of Ephirn's Lake, next to where I put the wall and where we have a temple structure to the northwest on the other side of the wall. The spot there looks still empty, so methinks that would be a good choice. What do you say?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 06 September 2013, 04:44:40
Quote
and where we have a temple structure to the northwest on the other side of the wall.

Did you mean north-east or am I looking at the wrong wall/gate? If so, then it's perfect. =)

The duchy is supposed to be rich in minerals, so one of the major settlements could be near Heckra or one of the other mountain ranges?

(And I love that we have a Stonehenge hidden in the forest! And then another one to the south - Fanghenge? :P - northeast of the mill.)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 September 2013, 05:03:59
Yeah, northeast is what I meant actually. Another one could be east of the Hèckra, next to the fields :)

"Fanghenge" BTW already exists - in Manthria, see here (http://www.santharia.com/places/fanghenge_ruins.htm). :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 06 September 2013, 05:06:50
Well, clearly she plagiarized from me...  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 06 September 2013, 16:50:36
Quote
@Mina: The town buildings and map elements of course are primarily representative, so the actual size might vary. On the other hand I'm not sure if it is mentioned exactly on site how large Milkengrad is supposed to be exactly, but it should be sort of an exception compared to other towns methinks, as it has a very distinctive position in history as well. Should the size be way off I can of course adjust it somewhat and make it more realistic, but the idea was to make it a bit like it's own kingdom there. I guess Milkengrad is a bit more than just a town.
Yeah, I know the cities aren't drawn to scale.  I'm hoping that'd be stated more clearly somewhere though.  I've seen some entries, mostly older ones though, where places were treated as if they were much closer to each other than they really were. 

Milkengrad's size isn't mentioned on the site itself, I think, but there's a map of it here (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,3760.msg44518.html#msg44518).  If drawn completely to scale, it'd probably be just a dot on the southwestern coast of the island, just across the strait from the easternmost point of the neighbouring island.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 07 September 2013, 16:15:57
Hmmm... Aside from the fact that the current version of Milkengrad I made doesn't fit to this map of Curgan, Curgan's map also doesn't seem to be very exact either, or cannot be taken as an exact blueprint just as it stands. Maybe back in the days when this was posted (2003) the scale of the original Santharian map was still very different, as we made a reduction at some point, because the distances would have been way too large. Even on the original Santharian map Milkengrad was marked as a huge city and cannot be just a dot in southwestern Efirhal Island. This would be absurd. Compared to Curgan's blowing up the map and adding villages there and stuff my super detailed map couldn't even include all that even if I wanted to. Even Esperoth Island is so large that one can only see a tip of it, and there are islands mentioned that wouldn't even remotely qualify for a fly spot on my map.

So, I guess what I can try is to reduce Milkengrad somewhat, move it further southwest, include a couple of settlements that are explicitly mentioned here and seem to be of some importace and adjust Esperoth a bit in this direction as well. But Milkengrad would still cover at least half of the island, and there'd be a good deal of re-interpretation from my side necessary. Also means quite a bit of re-work, and it would only be an approximation, but methinks that's the best that could be done here.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 September 2013, 17:44:23
Lovely maps! Worth many auras. I hope they will spark a lot of new entries. (No, I'm not going up there ;) )

The hobbits holes are really cute, their fields though seem a bit too rectangular and orderly to me. I always imagined more randomly laid out borders with a lot of paths in-between, trees and  bushes. Well, maybe our hobbits differ a bit from Tolkien's in this regard.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 08 September 2013, 22:33:06
I'm not arguing that Milkengrad should appear as a dot on the map, just pointing out its actual size.  It's perfectly fine for the representation of Milkengrad on the map to take up half or more of the island, since that's just the style the map is drawn in.  The actual city shouldn't though, since the island is about 150km from east to west, and only the biggest modern cities even come close to that size. 


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Rayne (Alưr) on 13 September 2013, 15:59:25
It would help if key developers (e.g. Rayne) would be around while the map is being drawn, so that these things can be pointed out in time.

Sorry, Artimidor. :buck: Late as ever.

I agree a settlement near Ephirn's Lake would be preferable; it would be nice if there were a road leading to Jernais and the cities along the river Vandrina.

Alas, it's been so long, I wouldn't necessarily know if anything was amiss; I've forgotten so much!--And I distinctly recall being somewhat (frustratingly?) unopinionated about the location of cities and topographical features. But the maps do look wonderful; impressive and endearing in their details and scope. The effort and skill of their maker is clear. :)

If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.  :heart:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 15 September 2013, 16:04:48
Of course it helps if I have a lot of leeway on where to put settlements, mountains etc. on the map, because otherwise I'd have to check constantly whether this and that could be placed somewhere, and filling the map with details is already quite a task without all that extra work. Basically the important thing I need help with is to point out where things are clearly off to already established stuff in existing entries for example - as is the case with the current Milkengrad version as Mina pointed out. So whenever there's something in this regard, please let me know :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 23 September 2013, 02:34:48
Milkengrad has been reworked BTW in the meantime and currently looks like this:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 23 September 2013, 13:26:47
Sorry to make you go through all that work.  It looks a lot more reasonable now.   :thumbup:

In fact now I wonder if it might look too sparse compared to some of the other cities you've drawn, eg. the one to the northeast of the same image (I've forgotten its name), and I wouldn't mind if it had a few more houses packed into it so it feels more populated.  But if doing that is going to involve a lot of work, then never mind.  I don't want to make you redo the whole thing again. 


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 24 September 2013, 02:38:51
Well, the way I see it there are basically two options how to improve on that: The size of the mountain could be reduced to make room for another house or two, or - this is my preferred option - to tear down part of the western wall and move the mountain partly into the sea. This would make room for more houses in the town center and give the castle an even cooler position and nice view over the sea. The western wall isn't really necessary given the fact that the area is mountainous and there might be steep cliffs making it impossible to attack from there effectively...


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 24 September 2013, 07:55:35
*readies his Remusians*  As soon as the wall goes down boys, we rush in.  The city will be ours!  :evil:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 24 September 2013, 15:08:46
*considers a very steep cliff next to the castle on the western side and tar being dumped on any attackers from the castle battlements*   :hammer:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 September 2013, 18:23:47
Here another rework of Milkengrad, this time without the eastern wall, making room for more houses. Below another part of the map which was now filled with more details, the region south of the Aerelian Lakes.


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 07 October 2013, 02:03:51
Here are some more screenshots of the map in progress. Included are fragments of the whole map showing the Aurora Fields and Salsair and the second map shows the ancient Erpheronian capital of Voldar. A couple of extras were also added to existing map parts, so here a few examples of those: the Hèckra now fumes accordingly, and rapids were added to the Vandrina. :)


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 07 October 2013, 02:05:24
Finally there's also the isle of Paragonj, and then a zoomed out version of the map showing you how much of the whole project is covered so far :) Looking at that map you get at least a feeling what to place where from the pieces posted above :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 08 October 2013, 10:14:48
 :thumbup:  Really loving how this is coming along, Arti. :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 08 October 2013, 18:23:59
Marvelous! Just marvelous!


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 11 October 2013, 14:10:55
I'm slightly confused.  Is that river in Xaramon meant to be the Dorashi River, or something new?  Its path is different, but the map seems to extend far enough to the south that at least part of the Dorashi River should be visible.  Unless you've not finished drawing that part yet.

Also,the fork that goes around the south of the city at its mouth feels a little unnatural to me.  Would it be possible to remove it, or maybe separate it from the river and have it be its own smaller river that originates from the mountains to the south?



Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 11 October 2013, 23:52:46
There are indeed some inconsistencies in the southern part of the map compared to the rough main Santharian map at the moment, Mina. The Dorashi River is one such inconsistency - probably because Rayne's rivers closeup map which I put on top of the map didn't include that part, and I forgot to make it fit to the main map, assuming it's all there. Another thing is that there's a plateau visible on the main map.

I will see to correct this in the next version and move parts of the current map up north, so that it's still of use somewhere. The Dorashi for sure is a much larger river according to the main Santharian map and has is further east, so an extra river will probably be added here instead of reworking the current one in full.

Concerning the fork: I assume you're talking about this southernmost river that will be another river other than the Dorashi. Not sure what and how you mean to have the changes, though. You have a problem with the fork or the mouth? Perhaps you can sketch how you want to have it changed?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 12 October 2013, 23:15:08
Update on the southern part of the map: The beginning Dorashi now at its right position and the plateau that was formerly missing.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 13 October 2013, 12:47:13
Quote
Concerning the fork: I assume you're talking about this southernmost river that will be another river other than the Dorashi. Not sure what and how you mean to have the changes, though. You have a problem with the fork or the mouth? Perhaps you can sketch how you want to have it changed?
Made a really quick edit to show what I meant.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 13 October 2013, 17:19:30
Ok, changing the whole branch it is then - I'll see to adjust it accordingly!


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 13 October 2013, 23:00:05
Here the northwestern part of the map, the Darksea coast with the Bolder and a bit of the middle part with some massive mountains a lake. Slowly but surely all the parts are getting finished... :D


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 October 2013, 05:09:05
Coming up tomorrow... The complete map of Vardưnn, at least the version without the captions, but everything covered from top to bottom... A couple of changes were made in already posted and considered completed parts, e.g. the western Thaelon, which got swamp additions, elven settlements etc. Always good to check one's own entry to get things right... :P Anyway, stay tuned, monster map to be posted soon!


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 October 2013, 02:49:44
Okeydokey... And here it is - the currently still entirely unlabelled version of the map showing the Santharian province of Vardýnn, home of the ancient Erpheronians, complete with key locations like the capital of Voldar, the metropolis of Milkengrad and the enchanted Thaelon Forest, the purported home of light elves. Also shown are the Low and the High Fores, the island of Chrican, the Hèckra volcano, the hobbit villages of the Silvermarshes of course, the Aurora Fields, the Heath of Jernais, the Aerelian lakes and the enclave of the Alvang in midst of the cursed Ancythrian inland sea. To name just a couple of things.

Map size: 3358x2304 pixels, source size: 62.9 MB - make sure to click on the magnifying glass to see it in full in case your monitor isn't large enough to harbour it in full size. Which is quite likely I fear... :) You might want to press F11 for example to see it in full screen mode if you're using browsers like Firefox or Internet Explorer. Press F11 again to switch back to the regular browser few. Or download the whole thing and move around on it at your leisure with the picture viewer/painting program of your choice. :D

Additional note: The map is still subject to alterations. A few more details might e.g. be added especially once location receive their proper names. So whoever still has suggestions in this regard or spots a factual error to something already described on the site, feel free to report!

So there you go, guys - hope you like:

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, unlabelled version (2.62 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 17 October 2013, 22:56:29
Well, the art is good, although parts of the coast seem a little odd.  I assume you're not finished with it?

I'd suggest adding some rivers flowing into and out of the Aerelian Lakes, because I find it a little odd that they are (besides two of the lakes in the east) completely isolated from other bodies of water, but I don't know if Rayne is alright with that. 

The Steppe of Kruswik seems to be more forested than what I'd expect from something called a steppe, but maybe that's fine.  I don't know much about steppes aside from what I've read on Wikipedia. 

There should probably also be one of those cavern entrances indicating the location of Een Puvtyr in the Lower Fores.

I did discover a potentially serious problem when I overlaid a magnified version of the kingdom map onto it.  Apparently some of the geographical features are somewhat out of place.  Most notably, the plateau should be where that shiny mountain to its south is instead, and the Dorashi river as a whole should be further to the south, so that most of the parts after the headwaters converge aren't visible.  I don't know if this could still be fixed so late into the development of the map though.  :undecided:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 18 October 2013, 04:03:20
Ok, some answers, Mina:

- Coastlines are supposed to be finished, at least intended to look as they do right now. They don't look the same everywhere, and that's quite intentional. Which part don't you like in particular?

- More rivers flowing into and out of the Aerelian Lakes shouldn't be a problem to make things more realistic. Rayne's closeup river map doesn't cover that area as far as I can see, but I assume a couple of small rivers/creeks here and there definitely wouldn't hurt.

- Steppe of Kruswik: Well, the main part of the steppe probably lies right south of the current map. Parts of the current map should definitely be adjusted however to reflect a more desolate landscape in the very south. E.g. west of the town near the Lower Fores would be good to have such changes. I could e.g. move the lake(s) there to the north-east of the town and add another river/creek there flowing into it, then make the western part more steppe-like and let it stretch as far as I possibly can to the west, just to make a nice trnasition possible for what's coming down to the south.

- Fores: The Forest part matches pretty much exactly Judy's map, however she only specified mountains, villages, mines and rivers at the High Fores, so Een Puvtyr was missing on that map. But this can be easily arranged. A few extra mine entrances there wouldn't hurt either. Will send Judy a message so that she maybe can mark some details regarding the Lower Fores to get everything approved there.

- Concerning the "out of place" thingy: The whole map has somewhat moved, which was basically due to the fact that the water ripple filter I put on the main background layer didn't only ripple the water but also caused a bit of a distortion of the main map geography. Personally, I don't mind and don 't see it as a serious issue :) Similar thing BTW with the plateau, though this was one of the recent changes - but I don't see it as a problem, unless someone tells me a reason why it definitely has to be moved. Would be quite a hassle to do drastic changes for little effect. Doesn't necessarily need to be exactly where it was put on the main map, but it's still in this vicinity, and there aren't entries that refer exactly to the location - or are there? Should be fine methinks.

- Finally, regarding the Rusik Headwaters (see Rayne's main Rivers map): They only begin along the line where the Ximaxian peninsula begins to the west. That said, I'd say what you see on the current map aren't the Rusik headwaters, but just Dorashi headwaters. The Rusik headwaters could still begin on the very southernmost part of this map, e.g. above the stone parts east of the town near the High Fores. That would be my preferred approach...


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 18 October 2013, 15:05:45
Fair enough.  I don't really mind the different geography, just didn't know how strict you were about having this map match your old ones.  How was the ripple effect done, by the way? 

Anyway, here's an example of what I meant about parts of the coasts looking odd.  Mostly the parts that look like this.  Wasn't sure what they were supposed to represent. 


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 18 October 2013, 16:01:31
Well, these are supposed to be waves, and they've been generated due to the ripple effect. If you apply the ripple effect over a complete existing map with landmasses on it, you get certain distortions next to the landmasses. Most of them have been ironed out (distortions can become quite heavy in parts), but those that remained I consider negligible/contributing to realism.

The ripple effect is a Photoshop filter, Filter --> Distort --> Ocean Ripple (see at the bottom of my tutorial here (http://www.santharia.com/workshop/maps_9.htm)).


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 21 October 2013, 02:36:44
Important notice: The time for naming locations, settlements, mountains etc. is right NOW. So if you have concrete ideas for names that fit with what you have in mind for an area or suggestions on naming schemes or generally cool names at hand you want to see used, let me know here. Otherwise I'll nail as much down myself as possible, and you've missed your chance to chip in.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 21 October 2013, 15:47:25
Here are some just off the top of my head, though no real location has been picked out for any.

Something around Milkengrad named for Gratcha Swath

Orc Blood Creek (named for a battle or massacre)

Mount Armeros

Astyrhim Bridge

Equine Plains

Tears of Ava (Waterfall)

Wengerim's Pass

Rusty Sword Creek (Where a sword was lost them recovered years later)

Maiden's Pool (small lake)

Dead Man's Pass

Evilwood

Sweetwater and Foulwater (both named inappropriately, as Iceland and Greenland were named by Vikings.  Perhaps the two small lakes around Heckra to the north, Sweetwater having been made poisonous by sulphur seeping into it, or the two creeks that merge to the south, becoming a potable river after merging)

(BTW, this map is beautiful.  And it has piqued my interest.  Can I have Salsair?  I've already done the Salsair Festival of the Horse, so this would tie in nicely.)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 22 October 2013, 02:38:53
@Alt: Thanks for the suggestions, Alt! Look good, and will be integrated in the map :) Have to think what to put where etc., but I'll find a spot for everything, I'm sure. If you want to pick Salsair for further development, that's fine with me, Alt! Now that we have a map describing a region should be way easier, at least from the geographical point of view. Just looking and interpreting the Manthrian map also did wonders for the development of the region. Maybe the one or the other entry gets inspired that way as well. Anyway, in case you have other concrete name proposals in the Salsair vicinity, Alt, just let me know, and I'll see to integrate them.

@Everyone: Further suggestions by anyone who has ideas are welcome! There's really a LOT to fill with details. So the more suggestions the better. Side note: Whoever wants to do village or town names especially might want to look at Erpheronian name syllables (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,11660.0.html) to construct something - after all we'd like to get the culture across as good as we can as well that way.

That said, here's a slightly updated version of the full map (actually a replacement of the old file, so perhaps make sure to refresh the page to make sure you see the new version). Fixed in this version are the things Mina pointed out: a b it of Steppe of Kruswik in the south, lake moved east of the town, Rusik headwaters showing, several rivers/creeks now feeding the Aerelian Lakes and I also somewhat improved the problematic ocean ripples at the area northwest of the Aerelian Lakes that Mina also pointed out. A couple of minor updates were done as well in the Fores area, which I came across when adding Judy's names.

There you go:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.1 (2.65 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

If you notice further problems, have suggestions etc. feel free to point them out!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 22 October 2013, 04:43:18
And as a first preview here the High Fores part Judy labelled with the final map.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 October 2013, 05:25:10
Bridal Veil waterfalls... Not very original, I know ;)


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 22 October 2013, 16:35:01
Seems I somehow missed a bunch of new posts.  Don't know how that happened, since I've been checking the forum.  :buck:

Quote
Important notice: The time for naming locations, settlements, mountains etc. is right NOW. So if you have concrete ideas for names that fit with what you have in mind for an area or suggestions on naming schemes or generally cool names at hand you want to see used, let me know here. Otherwise I'll nail as much down myself as possible, and you've missed your chance to chip in.
Did you add any locations that wasn't in the existing Vardynn and Xaramon dev maps?  It'd make things easier there was a list or map of what still needs to be named, I think.

Quote
@Everyone: Further suggestions by anyone who has ideas are welcome! There's really a LOT to fill with details. So the more suggestions the better. Side note: Whoever wants to do village or town names especially might want to look at Erpheronian name syllables to construct something - after all we'd like to get the culture across as good as we can as well that way.
Also, Centoraurian.  I don't think there's a guide for it on the site, but I could probably help to 'Centoraurianize' place names if necessary.  I did that for some of the Vardynnian towns when they were being place at the masterplan thread.

Quote
Sweetwater having been made poisonous by sulphur seeping into it,
Or have the poison be the cause of its sweetness.   :evil:


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 23 October 2013, 03:48:28
Uhmmm... There's lots of stuff made up actually. I tried to show a couple of things on the Milkengrad map for example, so there I can try to put in names as shown on Curgan's map. As for a Vardýnn development map: there really wasn't any overall map. And is there a Xaramon dev map  that shows these parts? The main Santharian map showed a couple of key locations which I tried to follow, so these names are clear. Then we have Judy's Fores map, the already existing Silvermarshes map, Amabella's Jernais map and Rayne's Santharian rivers map. So all that gets covered based on these given names. Other than that some stuff is from entries (e.g. the parts of the Thaelon) or pure intuition. Pretty much all of the smaller settlements have never shown up anywhere as of yet. So pretty much everything you see has to be named, even mountain peaks etc. and I wouldn't know where to start with listing everything.

It would also help if someone grabs an area and e.g. puts in the names correctly on the map according to how this was described in an entry and posts it for me to just get it into the main map without having to look every single name up. For example the Aerelian Lakes could be named that way etc. That is, if it's clear to me that someone takes a certain area, then I can focus on another part in the meantime. Also, should there be problems with a name to fit somewhere we can still move it around, so I wouldn't worry about interfering if areas are officially taken to be worked on.

Additional note: There was a lot of talk in the Vardýnn Master Plan Discussion (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,15120.0.html), also lots of names were mentioned throughout. A lot of ideas flew around, and quite naturally the final map doesn't reflect everything. But there are many names there to be found and suggestions of places, so while note everything will fit in the final map, we can for sure use a couple of these suggestions. Would make more fun in a team project - well, I take every help I can get.

Centoraurianizing names would also be cool, so yup, all welcome, Mina :)

P.S. I'll take the south-eastern area for now (Goltherlon, Ancythrian Sea, working my way up from there).


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 23 October 2013, 12:49:47
The newest Xaramon dev map is here (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12195.msg195488.html#msg195488).  Of course, there's a quite a bit of difference between it and your map, particularly the rivers, so I'll probably have to change some things.  But I was planning to make a new one anyway, so that doesn't matter too much.

Edit: Names for Vardynnian towns can also be found on the posts about resources and trade, like this one (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,15120.msg193570.html#msg193570).  That's what I meant by Vardynn's dev maps.

I'll see if I can match any of the places on the two maps.

Edit: Okay, I made a quick attempt to label the places that seem to correspond best to the existing places.  Some notes:

1. The one I labelled Deraheim is in pretty much the same place as the Deraheim on the Vardynn dev map.  It doesn't look like a town though, so I don't know if it's meant to be the same place.

2. Herstengrad in the Vardynn dev maps is actually a little west of the town I labelled as it, but the spot it should be in is empty, and that was the nearest town, which is close enough I guess. :P

3. Dysgammon and Corgammon (West Fort and East Fort respectively, in the Centoraurian language, although they're probably not really that fortified anymore) were meant to be the major cities of northern Xaramon, with around 30000 to 40000 people each, mostly due to trade along the Aerelian Lakes.  It'd be nice if more houses could be added on the map to represent that, but I don't know if it's still possible to make such changes.  (Edit: to clarify, I'm thinking something about the size of the town I labelled as Herstengrad).

4. Cratinth and the Great Arwood (based on places mentioned but not named on the site) were originally meant to be located next to both the plateau and the Dorashi River, but that doesn't really work anymore due to the plateau being moved northwards.  Since being near the plateau is more important (that's what's already on the site), I put those labels on the forest and town by the new river instead.

5. Rumeflor's position is about perfect.  :)  Maybe it could be given a pier, like the Elven towns north of it?  I did envision it being a port.

I'll try to think up some names for the remaining places in the Xaramon portion of the map.  Suggestions are welcome, of course.   ;)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 23 October 2013, 21:07:17
I don't know if it's alright, but here's some suggestions for additional rivers around the Aerelian lakes.  The idea is to both link the lakes to each other and the sea, and to justify the locations and sizes of some of the cities.

More detailed explanations:

Salsair is now the outlet for the lakes as a whole, linking it to that big river that leads to Thyslan.  A lot of trade is going to pass through it, which would explain why it's that big.  I had the new river join up with the main one at the site of one of the cities, because it feels like any place they join up is probably going to be a good location for a city too, for pretty much the same reason.

Thyslan's location at the mouth of a major river would be enough to justify its size, but now that it's linked to the Aerelian lakes, and from them to the High Fores and northern Xaramon, it works even better.

I've added an outlet for Lake Codath, to justify Herstengrad being where it is.  I can't really think of a reason for a relatively large town to be there otherwise.

Dysgammon, I'm hoping, can be moved slightly to the west, so it sits next to the river.  My current concept for it is that it's one of the main locations for trade with the Elves from the Vontron forest.  Putting it near the mouth of a river that flows out of the Vontron would be perfect for that.   :)  There's also an additional river there to better link it with the interior of northern Xaramon.

Corgammon also gets a river, to give it better access to northern Xaramon.  Otherwise there isn't much reason to put anything more than a small village there (which it currently is, but as I said in the previous post, I'm hoping it could be made bigger).

Overall, I'm also hoping that these changes help to explain why the old Centoraurian territories extend south of the Aerelian Lakes, instead of stopping at their shores.  Without the additional rivers, I feel that the lakes would be more of a natural barrier.  But with the additions, they become part of a natural trade and transportation network, giving the Centoraurians reason to spread south into northern Xaramon.  And once they get past the hills at the southernmost part of the map, they would be near rivers that bring them further south into Xaramon.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 24 October 2013, 03:47:40
The maps are a great help, Mina! I'll see to integrate everything that's clear name-wise and will also update the river suggestions as the second map shows. Whenever a change is relatively easy to do I can still do it, but if it's too difficult (various hills, trees, rivers around it) and not essential to have the location elsewhere (e.g. spot Herstengrad), it's easier to keep it. Anyway, a few notes maybe:

- Deraheim: Well, the building on this spot at the moment is actually meant to be a monastery, not really a town. I can change that to a town and move the monastery elsewhere of course. I just try to use certain map elements I have available. I could e.g. move it NE, turn it around and put it on the other side of the mountain where we have the temple to the west.

- Dysgammon and Corgammon can easily be made larger, no problem there.

- Ruins of Sheyaur Castle: We have ruins graphically, so we can use them. I assume on the plateau? Maybe on the southwestern bit?

- Great Arwood could perhaps be the wood east of that mountain instead. I have more space there, and the Arwood probably should also be a bit, well, greater. So I'd suggest to extend the wood south of the plateau towards the plateau to justify that name. Cratinth could also be moved next to the Dorashi to the southeast of the plateau, next to the new Arwood. The settlement that currently is Cratinth could be changed to a village. How about these changes to somehow make that all work?

- Pier for Rumeflor, you got it. Dysgammon, as already mentioned, will be expanded and moved slightly.

Ok, thanks for all the suggestions, I'll see to get some things changed... Let me know what you think of my suggestions :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 24 October 2013, 20:01:54
Quote
Deraheim: Well, the building on this spot at the moment is actually meant to be a monastery, not really a town. I can change that to a town and move the monastery elsewhere of course.
Hmm, actually, towns do sometimes grow around monasteries (as well as castles and other similarly important places).  How about adding some town buildings to it instead of removing the monastery?

Quote
Ruins of Sheyaur Castle: We have ruins graphically, so we can use them. I assume on the plateau? Maybe on the southwestern bit?
Yes, Sheyaur Castle was on the plateau.  But, come to think of it, it has been in ruins since more than 2000 years ago, so there might not be much left now.  I think we can keep the village.  Maybe the place was resettled later, in which case Sheyaur Village might be a suitable name?

Quote
Great Arwood could perhaps be the wood east of that mountain instead. I have more space there, and the Arwood probably should also be a bit, well, greater. So I'd suggest to extend the wood south of the plateau towards the plateau to justify that name. Cratinth could also be moved next to the Dorashi to the southeast of the plateau, next to the new Arwood. The settlement that currently is Cratinth could be changed to a village. How about these changes to somehow make that all work?
Hmm, well, here are the lines from the history I based those places on:

"Thousands of Kyranians follow the young Caldar to the ancient ruins of Sheyaur on top of the Ilian Plateau and erect twelve pillars and in the center they build an altar and pray for days to Arvins.

On the twelfth night, Caldar, who is treated as a saviour of the Kyranian kingdom, sees a white stag in a forest near the plateau. Interpreting this as a sign from Arvins he hunts and shoots the stag through its heart."

"Caldar, heeding the prophecy he has witnessed on the pillars of the ancient Kyranian fortress of Sheyaur, builds a palace on a hill adjacent to the woods where he shot the stag overseeing the Steppe of Kruswik. He declares the woods sacred and erects a pillar with the runes of Arvins blessing those woods. "

What I did was to interpret the woods as an arwood, which it sounds similar to anyway, and had a city grow around a palace that became Cratinth.  Of course, the political center of Kyrania later shifted to Caelum, but the idea is that it remains an important pilgrimage destination due to its proximity to the arwood.

I'm not completely sure about extending that forest so much, since that would pretty huge.  But then again, having a huge sacred forest does sound pretty cool.  Hmm, a great forest, almost 100km from north to south, all sacred to Arvins and patrolled by druids and ranger-priests...that might actually work.

Also, rather than moving the current town, how about keeping it the same and instead moving the one that is currently in the southeast?  I don't currently have plans for a large town there, so if it isn't too difficult to move, maybe it could become the new Cratinth?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 25 October 2013, 04:57:07
Ok, Deraheim will be expanded with a couple of houses and some more mountains in the background as the textures there are pretty washed out.

Sheyaur: Well, I'd like to have at least one or two ruins there aside from the village, still. After all, that's what we've got ruins for anyway - to use them in order to show some remnant of ancient civilisation...

Cratinth: Ok, the western village stays, the one at the lake will be moved up to the southeastern tip of the plateau and named Cratinth (a ruin or two up there), near the lake I'll put a smaller village then. Forest south of the plateau will be expanded a bit towards the new location of Cratinth... That should work I'd say :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 25 October 2013, 22:35:03
I'll be off over the weekend, but have already started adding the various stuff mentioned in this thread. So I hope that I can put up an updated version by Monday or so!


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 October 2013, 05:32:59
Updated versions of the unlabelled and the labelled version of the map are now available here:

There you go:

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, unlabelled version V 1.2 (2.63 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, labelled version V 1.2 (2.73 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)

I hope I've integrated pretty much everything mentioned in this thread, be it Mina's names and suggestions to move things around, Talia's and Altario's name suggestions, and a couple of things I wanted/needed to change from my side. For example Weyring was not on the spot it was supposed to be and the size completely wrong, so it's brand new in a new locations, ruins have been moved etc. More stuff was changed on the east side of the Silvermarshes as well, a couple of things around Milkengrad and of course in the plateau area to the south. Everything that was visible and named in the main Santharian map is now also named here. The Silvermarshes had already been labelled, so this was pretty much transferred as is to this map. - Further ideas, suggestions etc. welcomed of course!

P.S. Just noticed a very obvious mistake in a name in the labelled version I posted - 10 points for the one who finds it... :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 October 2013, 09:46:19
I can't find the obvious label error, but this really isn't my area of expertise (though in  researching Salsair, I'm learning and now recognize many of the labels you have put in  :) )

One thing I did notice, however, and I'm not sure how important this is, but....

In this new map, Weyring is almost directly west of Astran (and can't see where Caeltakkar Keep is, though it might be further north than this map reaches).  In the Silvermarshes Map, Astran is very much further north in relation to Weyring.  In the new map, Weyring should be where Waechling is.  No?

EDIT: Unless this was the obvious error and what you have marked as Weyring should be Nyermersys?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 October 2013, 15:43:11
Weyring was placed incorrectly at the Silvermarshes map for whatever reason, as it lies much further west in the Santharian master map and is much larger - so I've changed its location accordingly. Then I renamed the old village to Waechling - bit of a reminder that Wyering once was there... ;) Astran actually was also not placed very well in the Silvermarshes map (Judy apparently took some liberty when she put the map together), so its still a bit off compared to the main map, but what the heck, this should do. Weyring however was completely out of place.

And the labelling error is somewhere else. A letter is missing from something pretty enormous and it's further down the map... ;)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 October 2013, 19:07:47
 :rolleyes:  Aneythrian Sea


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 October 2013, 19:19:20
Yeah, you got it, Alt - "Anythrian Sea" in fact... :D


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 October 2013, 19:21:48
Sweetwater and Foulwater... I'm wondering if they should be reversed (if we are going with the misnomers) as Sweetwater is attached to fertile farmland, where Foulwater is not?


Ancythrian Sea even  :shocked:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 29 October 2013, 20:41:20
Ah yes, that could be done indeed as originally suggested - will do!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 30 October 2013, 15:09:51
Still working on names for the Xaramon parts of the map. 

Meanwhile, I'm wondering if those pointy island things west of Rumeflor should be named after the sea dragon Cyon Sola (http://www.santharia.com/bestiary/sea_dragon.htm#Myth/Lore).  It would be a nice reference to existing stuff.  On the other hand, the bay is already named after the dragon, so it might be a little repetitive.   :undecided:  I'm not sure Aca-santerra should be the ones to defeat the dragon too; it's a long way from Nybelmar.

By the way, what do those pillar-like rocks east of Rumeflor represent?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 01 November 2013, 03:19:06
Well, the Bay is already called Cyan Sola Bay, and well, using the exact same name as the dragon for the reefs is a bit uncommon. But maybe you want to hit at it that it looks like the dragon emerging from the water from afar or something, so something like "Dragon's Spine" would work or a new name based on the dragon's name like "Solaspachros" - just an idea. BTW: The Nybemar reference definitely looks out of place, I agree - should be changed, yup.

The pillar-like rocks don't have a name or anything yet. I found this really nice 3d texture and thought why not use it as a rare kind of mineral with unique properties in this fantasy setting? Forming big blocks all by itself and such, you know... It has already been used in Manthria BTW around Griffin's Marl in the very south. Any suggestions, entries etc. are welcome of course...


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 November 2013, 00:11:07
New versions of both maps are available with a couple of updates... See here:

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, unlabelled version V 1.3 (2.63 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, labelled version V 1.3 (2.73 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)

All names of towns mentioned in Rayne's resources map were now added, and here and there towns were moved as well, e.g. Aberwald near Evereygrey Bridge. There you also have another lake now, more trees and streets for example. A lot of labelling took place in the Goltherlon forest, where a couple of elven houses were removed (the Goltherrhim are extinct!) and replaced by different graphics representing Gnomish homes, which also bear Gnomish sounding names. Near the volcano a major new town was added which was on Rayne's map, Ahaiwana. Guess that was the most important I wanted to mention... :)

P.S. I'll moving slowly up the east side now with naming stuff.


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 02 November 2013, 04:13:17
Here's the names I've managed to come up with so far.  Still working on it.  Hopefully they sound realistic. 

By the way, is that a swamp around the village I labelled Eralon?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 November 2013, 16:03:25
Very nice, Mina! Will be integrated next version :) And yup, that's supposed to be a swamp there.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 02 November 2013, 19:37:26
Quote
And yup, that's supposed to be a swamp there.
Hmm, is it possible to add some small rivers and pools to it, like what was done for the Silvermarshes except smaller?  I think that might help to make it 'feel' wetter.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 November 2013, 21:58:48
I'll see to that as well then :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 04 November 2013, 03:59:21
And another update of the map - lots of further names added (mainly in the east), also some small rivers in the Eralon area, Astran was also moved now to the location it actually has on the main map, the Aurora fields are now properly separated etc. to name just a couple of things. See the current version here:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.4 (2.63 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.4 (2.73 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Amabella Catston on 05 November 2013, 10:44:29
Does Caeaar's Hold become Vaederins, Dekthyr become Jaelynn, and Dalash become Myrmodin after the March of the Darkest Knight, or would you like to keep the original names? According to the text it could go either way. (Maybe the village west of Cardos could possibly take one of those names?)

Will the bridge by Denring look like the one to the west of the Heath? I would guess that it would be one of the largest bridges in the the Heath of Jernais or second largest, though Evergrey could be larger.

I really like the detail of the landscape of Heath itself, and it looks very accurate to the way it is described. The windmills, the farmlands, and even the tree farms are all there.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 05 November 2013, 12:34:32
There is a village southwest of Foulwater, between two unnamed streams.  Can that be Cahlgrey?  With the larger stream the Bow and the smaller the Crossbow?  (my little Easter Eggs to home town).  I'll make mention of them in my Salsair entry and later on do an entry on it as well.  :D


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 05 November 2013, 20:38:07
@Amabella: Good that you stopped by, so that we can fix these things. With such a gigantic map there's a lot bound to be unintentionally forgotten. I always spot things that should be different when I try to label an area...

Anyway, the names are indeed mentioned there at the March of the Darkest Knight - I tried to find them on your map and in various entries but didn't succeed, so I put others in. But of course keeping the originals is the way to go, so I'll see to update that and move the new names somewhere else.

The other thing is the Denring bridge and a street leading north through the Thaelon. Will be added!

One more thing I noticed yesterday: Your map shows a major canal, this is also currently not implemented, but should definitely be there. Will get to that as well.

@Altario: Yes, can be done - traded for the Salsair entry... ;)


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 06 November 2013, 01:07:22
You're a lot faster than me.  :D

Here's a few more names.  Argammon in the dev thread was by the sea, not the lake, so I moved the label to a town further west and gave the former Argammon a new name.  There's also something I labelled "what is this?"; what does that symbol represent?

The name Eralon bothers me for some reason, even though I came up with it.  It doesn't feel very Centoraurian or Kyranian to me.  If it's altered slightly to Erailon, it's actually a somewhat appropriate Styrash name, but now the problem is that it's pretty far from the nearest Elvish territory, the Vontron forest, and extending it to the swamp basically cuts Centoraurian territory in half.  Maybe a small tribe of swamp elves or something that split off from the Sanhorrhim?  Or I could just try to think of a better name.

About other parts of the map:
Blowcrusher Fort is actually a little to the west of the Golden Bridge.  Switching the locations of the two labels should fix that, I think.

There's still a couple of Elven settlements in the Goltherlon.  Is that intentional?

Edit: Do the cavern entrances always indicate Dwarven settlements, or can they be things like Human mines or natural uninhabited caves?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 November 2013, 04:45:35
Okeydokey, will be all integrated! Thanks for the bunch of new names and ideas, Mina! :thumbup: All fine with "Erailon" - maybe there's an opportunity to get a little story in later to explain the name, so that would make a nice touch. Doesn't all need to be entirely streamlined. :)

Concerning your question: "What is this?" Well, you tell me... :lol: Anyway, the symbol at any way is intended for some sort of temple, most likely a human one of course. There are also round structures that resemble temples, and I've already labelled some of them up north somewhere.

Goltherlon: Well, I initially placed some elven settlements there out of habit, then remembered that the Goltherlon elves aren't actually there anymore. However, I thought it could very well be that some structures remained and that gnomes took over some of them. So they still have ancient elven names, but there aren't any there anymore, or just a few of them interested in studying Goltherlon history. So same here: A bit of diversity hasn't hurt anybody, eh?

Cavern entrances: Well, the Fores should be strongly dominated by the dwarves, practically everywhere else a tunnel/mine in the mountain could be anyone else's mine/cave I'd say, e.g. a human mine or an uninhabited place. Some caves in the Fores could also be natural of course.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 November 2013, 05:52:43
Aaaand here already comes the next version with the latest things mentioned already integrated (see comments above). I made one change to the suggestions, because Alt's Bow River and Mina's Aelunn River would be the same one. So I've kept Alt's name here of Bow and Crossbow and moved the Aelunn River (actually a branch then of the Bow) the one going through Salsair. Hope that's ok. Also added now was the main Vandrina canal and various gird-like connections to the other bodies of water in the the Jernais Heath area... Let me know what you think! :)

Here as the latest versions:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.5 (2.64 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.5 (2.78 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 06 November 2013, 23:47:03
Another Aura for you on this Arti.  Really love this map.  It really inspires and excites. :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Amabella Catston on 07 November 2013, 10:59:04
Looks good! :thumbup:



Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Seeker on 07 November 2013, 13:18:45
LOOOOOVE the map!  Aura dump for you.  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Great Work.  Just like Alt said it is very inspiring.  The map makes you want to learn more about the places and people and animals that live there.


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 10 November 2013, 16:53:37
General note: I have a few days off and am aiming to finish the labelling of the map within the next days. So if any of you still have suggestions, please try to provide them as soon as possible!


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 10 November 2013, 17:48:39
And another update after further labelling was done to keep you up to date:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.5 (2.58 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.5 (2.76 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)

Among the most important changes/additions done in this version is the fact that there were some more changes around Milkengrad, so that the seven forts are no present, albeit in different forms. Axeldam for example is now a tower on a smal island in the city, Pelesgarth was enlarged to a full town and the fort added, which resembles a castle, Fort Helbury is there, a Norgammon tower, the Valley of Kings etc. Other than that the northeast got a lot of stuff added and once I'm done with the northeastern part I'll move over to the three large islands - of which there exist practically no names on the site whatsoever other than that what's already there.

Anyway, as I said above: I#m planning to conclude this within the next days, so if you still have something to add, please do so as soon as possible!


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 10 November 2013, 23:49:28
Might be a little late to say this, but...  Might we be better off NOT naming everything on the map?  I'm just thinking that later on, having everything named might stifle some of the same creativity and inspiration that we are feeling right now with this magnificent empty pallet before us.  As a new person looks at a fully labeled map, they assume everything is already integrated, where a map with unnamed towns, mountains, woods, sees opportunity before him and this ignites their creativity.

Just a thought. :D

EDIT:  Or maybe different label colours for the unintegrated areas.?


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 11 November 2013, 01:58:37
I'm not a big fan of leaving a map halfway done. Maps may be reused later on a couple of times, and for these versions things need to be nailed down or you just copy a problem/undefined area and it spreads. Changing maps later is no fun at all. Otherwise you might as well say that we could add a mountain later if inspiration strikes. It has always been the other way round from the beginning of the site: Make a map and let people interpret what's there. And I'd like to see it continue that way, because everything else makes things just more difficult. This map has been in the making for months and people had enough time to suggest names. It helps if they are there as well to chip in.


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (work in progress)
Post by: Mina on 12 November 2013, 23:12:49
Quote
General note: I have a few days off and am aiming to finish the labelling of the map within the next days. So if any of you still have suggestions, please try to provide them as soon as possible!
I've added a few more names.  Since it looks like there might not be time for another map, here are some names I made that I haven't found a place to assign to yet:

Markal (Kyranian; Markalum is probably a suitable city name, but there aren't any Kyranian cities left to name)
Naemere (Kyranian)
Liscay (Kyranian)
Milenos (probably Kyranian)
Amarcum (could be either)
Cormare (Kyranian)
Enokelos (probably Kyranian)
Curolan (Centoraurian)
Lannath (Centoraurian)
Aelinnon (Centoraurian)
Naminor (could be either?)
Caendor (probably Centoraurian?)
Essaros (probably Kyranian)
Antaea (probably Centoraurian; Antaean [something]?)
Agactar (Centoraurian)
Pelagaea (Centoraurian)

Most of Xaramon is quite Centoraurian nowadays I think, but among the areas shown on the map, the Ilian Plateau and the areas south and east of it are probably still quite Kyranian.  The area between Aelistra, Fort Telinon, Caemor, and Damarel are probably a mix of the two, with the Centoraurian places and names probably being the newer ones.  Likewise the area roughly between the Ilian Plateau and the three lakes north of it, with Centoraurian influences increasing as you get closer to the lakes.

Outside Xaramon, I'm not so sure, but I think the border of Centoraurian/Helcrani culture and Erpheronian culture is probably somewhere in the plains between the Aelunn River and Cahlgrey?

There's also Garret's Roan Forest, which could be somewhere near Fort Aptolon, although it might be too small to show up on a map of this scale, being just a few hundred meters across according to the incomplete entry.

Suggestions and feedback are welcome, especially regarding Kyranian stuff, which I'm not that familiar with.

Edit: Could there be some passes in the High Fores?  Perhaps near Ahaiwana, Heleroth, and Menegula?  That would help connect the Helcrani settlements on both sides of the mountains to each other.

By the way, how do you come up with names so quickly?  I mostly pick the better-sounding names produced by random name generators and tweak them until they seem to fit, but it tends to take quite a lot of tries to get something decent from the generators.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 14 November 2013, 20:12:53
Ok, just finished the map now, so final version right here:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.6 (2.58 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.6 (2.87 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)

If you still discover that there's still something missing/wrong etc. please let me know, otherwise this looks pretty comprehensively labelled to me.

I tried to integrate all of Mina's latest suggestions and there are some geographical changes as well, but nothing major. Lots of missing bridges were added for example, some woods/fens expanded or slightly moved for the one or the other reasons, some more names as references to what was mentioned on the site or on the Forum (Altheim and ruins, the Roan forest e.g.), passes were added, and so on. Well, look for yourself.

As for how to come up with names: Well, it's a mixture of everything. Tribal people nomenclature as basis, take parts of existing names in the region and twist them, multiple name generators from the web as inspiration, gut feeling, take cool sounding English words and just transform them in the desired direction, plus the conviction that not every name needs to fit perfectly to a tribe - after all the Santharian Kingdom has existed for a while by now... :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Mina on 15 November 2013, 00:30:23
 :thumbup:

Some quick comments:

The mountains directly south of Rumeflor belong to the Zirghurim Dwarves, so Rumsdale is probably too Human-sounding.  The Dwarves do have vineyards there though, if you want some kind of alcohol connection.

The bay should be the Cyon Sola Bay, according to existing maps.  Also, how about Dragon's Spine instead of Serpent's Spine?  That ties it to the dragon legend.

Fort Doh'Xeuan (is it an Elvish name?) doesn't look like it'd have much to protect there, I think, and the area is either within or near one of the Zirghurim Dwarves' territories.  Maybe it could be moved to where Khaelvan's Point is and turned into a lighthouse or something?

Zirkumire Mountains isn't exactly incorrect, but according to the current (very old) entry, that name refers to all the mountains on the Chadomm Peninsula.  The mountain range visible on the map is the Wanderer Mountains.

Hersten Channel could maybe be Hersten's Channel instead?  Hersten was the name of one of the Centoraurian kings.

Roan Forest is apparently intended to be relatively small.  Maybe the small forest to the east of Fort Aptolon would work better?

Naemere was used twice, once for a mountain near Corgammon, and again for a fort in the south, near the river.  They aren't near each other at all, so maybe one of them should be changed?

Edit: I spotted something in the Centoraurian Royal Lines entry:

Quote
ca. 1890 b.S.   King Carbug the Great
(Son: Agum)
Carbug the Great is the Founder of Centorauria. He descends from an Iceland family that over the Centuries came south. He rises to power to a proto-Centoraurian tribe and manages to unite them to a confederation of tribes under his rule. He builds his capital, that bears his name in the center of the Aurora Fields, from where the name "Centorauria" derives.
Quote
1662 b.S.
to 1650 b.S.   King Lanaget
King Lanaget is the last of the Carbugian dynasty. Carbug is burned to the ground and is never inhabited anymore.
Perhaps the ruins of Carbug could be added next to Naminor?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 15 November 2013, 23:15:26
Just wanted to hop in and say, how I appreciate you work , Art, and your commenting so eagerly too, Mina. :)

 I stay away with purpose, I don't want to get involved with another area and I know myself - if I look too often at that map I have ideas for this and that - better I concentrate on my area ;)


Title: Re: The Vardýnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 15 November 2013, 23:54:56
Thanks for the further suggestions, Mina, I've implemented them now :) Good thing especially that you spotted he Carbug thing - definitely a very crucial detail that should be in the map! :D

One exception, though - "Rumsvale" I've kept for now, because I think it's actually a pretty nice name. Doesn't necessarily derive from "rum", but from "Rumeflor". I regularly try to use derivations of names in adjacent territories to keep a certain consistency. So I think it fits there because of the adjacent town, and the vale might still be called that way by the humans, regardless of the dwarves. Maybe it also has a dwarven name, but as it's only the first valley in this mountain range I thought a human name that makes somewhat sense would still be applicable.

Oh, and as for the Dóh'Xeuán Fort: Oftentimes buildings are added somewhere simply because the place looks empty... :lol: So I've moved it, turned into a lighthouse and made a little village there on the coast instead...

Anyway, rest is all in, check it out here:

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, unlabelled version V 1.7 (2.58 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardýnn, labelled version V 1.7 (2.87 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Mina on 16 November 2013, 04:10:16
Quote
One exception, though - "Rumsvale" I've kept for now, because I think it's actually a pretty nice name. Doesn't necessarily derive from "rum", but from "Rumeflor". I regularly try to use derivations of names in adjacent territories to keep a certain consistency. So I think it fits there because of the adjacent town, and the vale might still be called that way by the humans, regardless of the dwarves. Maybe it also has a dwarven name, but as it's only the first valley in this mountain range I thought a human name that makes somewhat sense would still be applicable.
Fair enough.  I would probably have extracted "rume" instead of "rum" from the name, but "Rumsdale" is a pretty nice name indeed, so it works.  :)

Is "Dóh'Xeuán" a Styrash name?  It looks that way, but I don't see "doh" in the dictionary.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 November 2013, 17:37:37
Dóh'Xeuán: I do such things regularly - put in a word that isn't in the dictionary and combine it with existing ones. This allows creativity to fill in the gaps later on. "Xeuán" means "to connect" and the tower looks out to the sea, so one can build something from there with a bit of thought. Similar with "Rumsdale" for example and its connotations - "Rumeflore" and "rum" - it's up to the developer to make something from these possible associations... ;)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 November 2013, 17:03:31
I've started preparing the Vardưnn Provinces Overview page comparable to the Manthrian one we already have on the site with zoomable map, list of towns and stuff. Here all existing entries are integrated. In the process I spotted a few more things that needed to be updated on the main map, so here are the changes I've made:

- Added Grove of Embers on Efirhal Island east of Milkengrad
- The so far still unnamed forest north of the Aurora Fields now bears a name: "Aurora Woods"
- Big Glade added to the Goltherlon Forest
- The latter in order to harbour a well: The Glistening Well of Goltherlon, now also present :)

Latest version right here as usual:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.8 (2.64 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.8 (2.93 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Seagazer on 19 November 2013, 07:43:17
Really beautiful map. The level of detail in this map (+ the Manthria one) is really incredible. All the details from the smoke from Hèckra, to the cliffs on the seashore are really beautifully done.

Thanks.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 10 December 2013, 04:33:51
Just wanted to add here that I've made a poster from the current map for personal use which is pretty cheap I'd say (15 EUR without framing and stuff), and it looks pretty cool as far as I'm concerned. Not sure if the Deviant Art prints are that recommendable compared to a local poster company because the transport costs seem to be quite horrendous - a picture with a decent border would amount to 70 EUR for transport only (!), even though they claim they can send prints from everywhere... Anyway, I'm fine with my "cheap" print, and my dad can easily make a decent border for it... Having a map like this on the wall for easy reference definitely makes things easier :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 December 2013, 17:58:30
I purchased a Manthria map last year and it is very good, I would not know, what about I should complain. It is sharp, the grey scale ok, so I only can recommend it. You just have to wait, until deviantart offers free shipping again :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 31 December 2013, 12:25:30
I think I found a mistake.  Just East of Salsair there is a little community of North Arlemoth.  Just to the south of that is the larger community of Arlemaroth.  One of these would be incorrect, no?


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 31 December 2013, 17:21:25
Definitely a mistake, Alt. Arlemaroth is the correct name as that's the one Rayne suggested for the town in the Vardưnn brainstorming thread. So this was fixed now along with some further smaller changes now that I#m at it. Changes are as follows:

- Judy's suggestions concerning Lake Bourshal (Twinwater, Twintears, Burfall) are now integrated.
- The river leading away from the Hèckra towards Woldothan in the east now also has a name: Angswin.
- Unnamed settlement of the Goltherlon is now called Mérin'fóld (lit. "Flower Village").

Latest version right here as usual:

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, unlabelled version V 1.9 (2.64 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn_empty.jpg)

The Santharian Province of Vardưnn, labelled version V 1.9 (2.93 MB) (http://www.santharia.com/maps/provinces/vardynn/vardynn.jpg)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 01 January 2014, 08:03:52
I don't see it as fixed, Art.  Still Arlemaroth and North Arlemoth.

EDIT: Nevermind.  I refreshed it and it fixed.  Must have been in my cache.


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 02 January 2014, 00:49:59
Looks fantastic, Art. Really great work. Like others, I admire the details: Hèckra's smoke, the beautiful bridges, the Henge of Sabannicar, ...

Apologies if I've missed something, but what do the spots of light in the eastern Thaelon Forest signify?

The Hèckra Ashfields appear to be missing an accent on the "e"?



Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 January 2014, 03:49:12
Hello there again, Shabakuk, nice to hear from you again! :wave:

Well, the "spots of light" at the Thaelon are meant to represent sort of a magical presence, after all it's the purported home of the light elves, could be will'o'wisps also. That's the basic idea.

I'll see what I can do about the missing accent on the "Hèckra Ashfields" :)


Title: Re: The Vardưnn Monster Map (completed)
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 03 January 2014, 23:58:33
Well, the "spots of light" at the Thaelon are meant to represent sort of a magical presence

Makes sense - thanks, Sage.