Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Santharian Artists Workshop and Resources => Topic started by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 27 August 2003, 16:14:00

Title: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 27 August 2003, 16:14:00 start out with...I am a singer. Not important but my goal is to become a Namer. I was told that this does not exist yet but I was to bring it up and what not. It is difficult to explain really because it has so many variations and abilities, none of which are all-powerful. It all depends on the character. I explained it a bit in my CD but to some it was not really clear.

A Namer has a special ability. All namers start out as singers, that is how they commanding power. In a song or a statement. It can be done purposely or by accident. The Namers power is not something to throw around. It has to have honorable intentions or it will be corrupted. Lies are a Namers downfall. IF they lie...they automatically lose their abilty.

A Namers ability enables them to rename someone. This renaming thing has brought up a bit of a controversy on what its limits are. The renaming consists of emotional and mental changes. The person becomes their name in a sense. Example: Achmed the Snake. His body, when coming in contact with the cold, will slow down much like a reptile's body would. Also, she can give commands in riddle like fashion kinda. More like commands that happen as they are spoken literally. Example: "I wish you to have non-stop diarreaha and that your death is slow and painful." The person will be in constant pain and have non-stop runs. (Yuck) and wil die a slow and painful death.Simple as that. In a song, it is long and intricate. Words must be choosen carefully because one word can make a world of difference.

I hope i didn't confuse anyone too much. Please ask questions. It will make the explanation a whole lot easier. Thank You

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 27 August 2003, 20:05:00
It's really an interesting kind of magic, and one that I think might fit in well with Santharia. I'm sure there are also a lot of other tribal magics out there that might be similar to this. It would be nice if I could, sometime or another, get up with you and talk about this. It really seems like a fun project, and I'd love to have your help!

The main thing I'm interested in covering is how this work. I think we might be able to kind of use the belief system in here, but I might be able to base it losely on the concept of magic and the chaos theory. However, there are a few things that I might have to work with more to make sure things are smoothed out.

I talked to rti about this a while ago and I think he was interested in the idea, but I think right now he and I would really like to get a lot of the other magic systems up. However, it's still something worth discussing and spending time with.

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 27 August 2003, 20:10:00
I would love to have a discussion on it. It would help to get all the aspects of it in. I can't wait to start playing it out! :rollin    

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 28 August 2003, 02:52:00
Arti said we had to wait a bit, but actually this is similar to a system we've been working on for Aeruillin. Remember the Nakashi song that turned out to be terrible? one of the first attempts...

In Aeruillin people with this talent are directly accepted to the Lady of Light's temple, and trained there on how to use their voice and vocabulary most efficiently and with pure intentions. For the nomadic tribes of the desert, this may seem like another type of clerical magic, but in fact, what the temple does is gathering recruits who already have the skill and putting them use for the temple. Clerics already use the normal system.

I am also working on a myth to accompany the subject: (this is not the stlye the myth will be written in, just some points)

Nakashi's temple is a miracle itself - for poor continent such as Aeruillin, building a majestic temple out of white marble with a grand golden statue in the middle, with streams running through the temple (to be intersected in and around the statue in  the middle of the temple -still to be decided)... It is said that this was the first time the followers Nakashi discovered the mystical powers of the Voice. A commission that consisted of 6 highly esteemed priests and the High Priestess was sent to seal the deal made with the Sarvonian merchants (still to be decided who). When the merchants changed the price the day before the commission came (the temple had already begun gathering the artisans and all that... and they thought the marble was already on its way - to arrive a day after their return) and told them that Sarvonia had not sent the materials ten days ago - as it was promised - the High Priestess was utterly shocked and dismayed (not angry - the training). All she could think of was (instead of cursing the man) a prayer often recited (sang as an aria along with the traditional instruments of the desert - wren and i are working on the melody - probably a sad oriental song)  on the morning ceremonies of Spring, said to soften the soul of a man and guide him towards purer deeds... The merchants were so touched by the lyrics and the music that they agreed to lower the price (even further than the first one) and offered to assist the construction with their own resources.

so --- origins of naming --- a power bestowed by Nakashi (how true no one knows) --- that doesn't in fact require 'worshipping her' only following her ideals : purity, honesty, love

How about this? I'm so sorry for the terrible entry, i feel a bit dizzy today

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 28 August 2003, 16:24:00
That's clerical, Coren: gaining powers from a God or Goddess. That's not exactly what we're dealing with here.

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Arancaytar Ilyaran on 28 August 2003, 16:41:00
The idea of music (ie. a creative force) having actual, real power is a fascinating one imho. Creativity is after all what we use to create this world. That might make some nicely confusing metaphysical theories about the creation of Caelereth (the mythological one), and certain people being capable of moulding this fabric to their needs; another form of magic...

You can tell I wrote this bull at 1 AM local time, eh?

Arancaytar Ilyaran

"When you start quoting yourself, it's a sure sign of senility" Arancaytar Ilyaran

Title: Re: Was told to bring this up
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 28 August 2003, 19:22:00
That's Raw Magic, Arancaytar. Only weavers have the power to do that. They're extremely powerful.

Title: I like this idea...
Post by: Fox on 28 August 2003, 22:09:00
I can definately see this as a belief system way of magic. Since I'm not one to believe in the fact of the Santharian gods giving powers to their believers, I'm of the Ximaxian stand-point, and so I don't believe this would be different than clerical at all in its effects(other than clerics saying they get power from their gods, namers getting it from their songs), it in all simplicity means that the concentrating of the mind to such an extent will cause a change in the dream. Clerics using prayers and such to help concentrate, these 'Namers' using their songs to help them concentrate. Though in reality they would just be doing the same ol' thing.


Title: Re: I like this idea...
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 29 August 2003, 02:00:00
hmm... guess you're right. what about this: The Temple of Nakashi would of course claim that it is a power bestowed by their Goddess, but in fact they have no idea how Naming works or how it is passed on. BAsically they are just faking to know, but are such good actors that they ended up believing their own crap.


Title: Re: I like this idea...
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 02 September 2003, 20:16:00
I never really understood all this "god" stuff, (maybe i am just arrogant but anyway) Magic usually isn't my section so wahtever you guys are talking about is just kinda going over my little head. I figured that this Naming thing didn't seem to complicated when i first heard of it so i thought i would try it out.

I know you are trying to place it in a category but...i don't know. I find whatever you are talking about fascinating. Maybe I should try to go researching again. That might help me...just a little maybe. :D  Oh well, as i said, "complicated" magic my case...not fun. Not yet at least.

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: CD Done!!
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 23 September 2003, 17:32:00
I just finished my CD and was just wondering if you guys have come to a conclusion yet???? Just an update.

::Begins skipping about the room chanting:: DONE!!! DONE!!!!

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 24 September 2003, 11:22:00
Well, Kalina, you could always use your character the way it is now. (congrats by the way ;)  ) and update the history section once this is sorted out. (which would likely take a long while becuase rayne, amuwen, artemis is away... and I have very little time due to a term work in Chemistry Applications Exam 4&5)

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 24 September 2003, 18:45:00
Good luck with chem Coren. I guess I can play her as is and just weave in the part of the naming and such. Will do. :thumbup  Thanks again.

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Stefen Lannex on 24 September 2003, 19:07:00
Isn't there something similar to this "Namer" ability in the Dune novels (Frank Herbert) called "The Voice" or something simlar?  I'm not accusing plagerism it just reminded me of it.

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Viresse on 24 September 2003, 21:16:00
Using the sound of the voice and channeling their power, (incuding other powers, it was called the Weirding) the bene jeserit (sp.?) women can command people to do things, whether they want to or not.
When amplified and attached to a weapon, the sound becomes much stronger. And as opposed to the weirding, individuals who were not trained had to find the one word that channelled their strength.
Paul Atreidies ( or mua'dib) was the only male child of ANY bene jeserit woman. It was believed they could not give birth to boys.
*shakes head*
I think the singing is almost like Sirens. I personally believe it could be of the Fae (making it clerical and near boundless in some cases) Or of the Weavers.

*pokey de Viresse at* - Adventures of Caelereth Administrator
The Santharian Dream - Home sweet Home...

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 25 September 2003, 12:39:00
Well... they could perhaps both use it... only in a slightly altered manner - and of course they would both claim to be the first and true masters...

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 25 September 2003, 15:28:00
I guess the mentioned "naming" is a typical clerical kind of magic. As a matter of fact we have defined clerical magic as closely related to the power of belief, and belief is just another way of re-arranging cár'áll if we see it from the pure athetistic/"scientific" point of view. Atheism needs to be possible in Caelereth, and believing generates "power" or "magical might" if you want. So you can believe either in a Santharian god or in something else, and produce results. E.g. a voodoo puppet would fall into the same category, if the "caster" believes in its success. And so naming would work as well. It should be a rare technique, however, maybe an ability which is inherited at certain families, a rare gift etc. like it is said that some people have some kind of seer gift or something. Could also be very tribe specific thing. Now I don't know how exactly you planned to realize the namer thing, Kalina, but if you could elaborate the ability in an entry, this would be best of course (and would be the logical step in order to make major things like this possible in Santharia).

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 25 September 2003, 20:33:00
Don't worry, I had planned on...filling it out so to speak. I can be quite complicated. I came across it in a series that I am reading. Symphony of Ages by Elizabeth Hayden. Fairly new author I believe. I found it fascinating so I thought I would Try it out.

I can see it has brought on quite a bit of confusion that I did not expect, unfortunately I am at lost for the right words to accurately describe it. In some ways it has nothing to do with music or singing for that matter, it is more of a...::smacks head hoping the right word will come to mind::...special commanding ability ::shrugs:: um...I will work on a good description or something to explain it better. My mind is not functioning properly from the lack of sleep. I apologize. Will be better soon. Soon meaning in a couple of months ;)  

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 26 September 2003, 16:53:00
Did I say a couple of months???? I meant a couple of days...oops!!!!! There is still a lot to explain but I hope this gets some of the confusion out of the way.

~Singing "Lore" (as I like to call it for my sake) - it intermingles (sorry for the lack of a better it even a word? *shrugs* Oh well) with the Naming "Lore". Before one is a Namer, they must first be trained as a Singer. I don't know if you guys have a musical scale ( I assume not) so I have set one up for what I am to explain it is needed. It is similar but different than the modern one for those who are musically inclined.

~Lisele - ut
~Frith - re
~Merte - mi
~Kurh - fa
~Brige - sol
~Luasa - ela
~Grei - ti

I have chosen the note Luasa - ela, the sixth note of the scale, to be Kalina's.
Explanation: Every Singer/Namer has a note. That note is a part of them, their musical note that their body radiates. (*pounds head thinking for a better word*) With this note, they can tune themselves with anything and use it's musical waves for their utilization and can manipulate it for what they see fit. Everything lets of a tone, a note that those who are trained can focus on and match their note it's and become one with it. This power, is used with extreme disgression for it can backfire if misused and can be immense trouble. Especially in life or death situations.
A downside to the power is that it can be lost in a few words. A Singer/Namer cannot not lie. They can only tell the truth as they know it. If they knowingly lie, then the power as a Singer/Namer is lost. Once lost, they can never become a Singer/Namer again. Since most of their power is in their voice, physical strength limited because they don't trained to become strong physically.

~Naming "Lore"(gah!!! its that word again) - it is a bit more complicated but has similar attributes as to the Singing "Lore". I explained this portion a little in my CD history and my first post here. It has a authoratative arua about it more so than the singing. The power consists of naming and renaming people or creatures in a way that they become or obtain what they are named for. (Will show an example at bottom...if I remember to do so) The naming is usually done in a song, which is sung in a special ceremony. An exclusive song is written specifically for the person, for it will basically define who they are in the future. Great care is taken in the words for whatever is said/sung will be an attribute to the person in a direct or indirect way. The naming usually affects the senses but can affect physically if the words are expressed in a certain way.
The problem is that there are times that the naming can occur unintentionally. This can be either good or bad depending on the situation, person, and the new "name". In these instances, there is no song and it is more on the authority line than the music line.This usually happens with the younger Namers because of their inexperience.

~Will post example later...I promise. Please, if you need any clarification, and I expect you will, please tell me and I will do my best.~

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark

Edited by: Kalina Merenwen  at: 9/26/03 1:54

Title: Re: CD Done!!
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 27 September 2003, 17:13:00
Never ever ever will I play a god character. They are no fun at all. (*zap* oops! didn't mean to kill 'em.) Like I said. No FUN!

It is better to light a candle than curse the dark