Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Languages and Runes => Topic started by: Artimidor Federkiel on 14 January 2002, 03:22:00



Title: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 14 January 2002, 03:22:00
If you develop new Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary, please reply to this thread mentioning the new words (a gender is not required at Thergerim nouns) and the translation(s).

From time to time this thread will be emptied when all accumulated words are put into the Thergerim dictionary on the site.


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Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 8/16/05 21:27


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 April 2003, 06:45:00
New Thergerim vocabulary is prepared now...

I've noticed the following problems/contradictions when integrating the new vocabulary:

Of - Es (e.g., Lord of Rock = KorimEsTrum)
Problem: We already have "of" (Ze)

Aroon - circle ('aronun' - round, circular)
Problem: We already have "Aroon" (Chest)

20 = Bargol
Problem: Initially "BarGolzeron". Guess you decided to shorten that long word (especially when looking at higher number which could turn out pretty long), so that would be ok.
(see also 30, 40, 50 etc.)

500 = Hutgyr
Problem: You say 100=Oltgyr, 200=BarOltgyr, suddenly the "Olt" is ommitted at Hutgyr. Seems like a mistake (case at the 1000 concept suggests that as well), so I added the "Olt" there as well = HutOltgyr. Let me know if this is correct.
However, at your example you say:
2673 = Baregri'tinngyr'dengol'berbar
Seems that the second part misses an "e" plus the "Olt" thingy (in case you can confirm this). So I came up with this result - can you tell me if this is correct? (Please note also that I always try to show the single word parts by writing capital letters to make it easier to understand, maybe you could do this at future vocabulary as well):
2673 = BarEgri'EtinnOltgyr'DenGol'Berbar....

BTW: As you somtetimes add more detailed explanations why this and that is written in a special way I thought I'll collect these things in the main entry on the language under "Additional Notes" at the bottom. Maybe a complete page develops from that sometime or we put it in another format, but at least the information isn't lost.


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Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Chronusian on 08 October 2003, 09:50:00
A little bland but...

Spike of Death - ZinDemKhor

Horrible, Yes, but...

The bolt developed by Theregrim which preceded the Ballista... I'll come up with the Crossbow name later. There is no word for bow... So I'll try to get there otherwise, unless I try to make up a name for the bow myself.:)   I'll try to come up with something more creative then ZinDemKhor also.

Also, the word Khor is very similar to Coor. Is ther some connection?

When you look past all the evil
The scorn and hate of the world
You see a hero, the light
Only in the end will that light shine

Edited by: Chronusian at: 10/8/03 16:19


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 12 October 2003, 01:33:00
I think the name looks quite ok with me, so I'll put it in the entry as well...

However, death means "Khorim", so it's "ZinDemKohrim" in fact. And yup, I think "Khorim" derives indeed from Coór.


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Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 19 October 2003, 15:22:00
Shir = Cat



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Victhorin on 24 November 2003, 05:55:00
build (builder)...-  Bachik
knowledge.......-  Bol (from Styrásh "bóll" = knowledge)
book...............-  Hutlkat
hurt................-  Kem
luck...............-  Amril
revenge..........-  GuulPragoz (lit. back-take)
room..............-  OonEen (lit. small-home)

military, army.-  Tharezerons (lit. axes)
soldier...........-  Shofim
defend...........-  Terok
attack............-  Koret
war................-  Koreterons (lit. many attacks)
peace............-  Eka (from Styrásh "eyá" = peace)
guard.............-  HeorEka (lit. keep-peace)

Revenge

Edited by: Victhorin at: 3/26/04 11:08


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 25 August 2005, 16:31:00
Just for info, as all dwarven vocab is being entered into the Language Machine by yours truly...


BarolRotrum (Father Mountain)

HoaRusun (The Coal-Bellied)

Hlakoroon – lava lake

Hlahujit (Flame-wombed)

Hujit - womb

Jit (‘jeet’) –centre

Yabarrah - Bachelor (unwed male dwarf)  

Yehurra -  Maiden (unwed female dwarf)  

Lekunn - Child (1 to 10 human-years of age, not yet weaned)

Shorr - Adolescent  (young dwarf under the age of Hu/Baregozar)  

Kavoninn Yabarrah – Travelling Bachelor



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Ganinon on 10 August 2007, 12:47:08
Jsut a quick question. Why would the dwarfs be called Thergerim if the word for earth is Koga and there is no being or bonded?jw if you see there would be need for change might i suggest just making a formal way of saying earth and then add being and bonded to the vocab.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 August 2007, 22:51:17
The word for the element eath is koga, while the word for earth=dirt is ger.

Just have a second look at the vocabulary:

[earth (see also 'dirt')      noun      gert      gert
Earth (the elemental form - but see also 'earth', 'dirt')    noun    Koga

dirt (Also see 'earth')      noun      ger


 thergetyr      noun      tribe; clan
theroon    theroon    noun    family


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 22 January 2008, 01:01:44
New noun:

Shae - music

Gordn - dawn

Note to self:  The Dwarven Singspeaker Pola DawnSung  (GordnShaeVer, literally 'startday-music-past') needs to be credited in the development history of the SingSpeaker machines


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 January 2008, 13:31:31
Just for Grunok - AND, since for some inexplicable reason none of the existing words for stone types are in the dictionary on the site... the others!

'Gerhae' - sand 
 'hak'  - quartz 
'GerhaeHak' - Greywhacke sandstone

unph - basalt
korun - granite
kann - marble
aephe - flint
kwont - obsidian
trum - rock
hothe - limestone
gerhothe - sandstone
sthon - stone


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Ganinon on 04 March 2008, 08:07:00
Is there a way to show the letters er after a word in Thergerim. I could not find it in their principles, might be missing it though. Ill look through it again.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 04 March 2008, 09:46:25
Do you mean a comparative (cute, cuter) or a suffix indicating 'the one who does the action'?

We have both: here, for your info, is a list of commonly used suffixes and prefixes to modify dwarven words.

-------------------------------------------------------------

ka   away from, from   KaFerOon = travel (leaving)        Kafon, to travel
pra   towards, to   PraTheroon = reunion, meeting     Pratheron, to meet
re   hold, keep back   Reardenim = waiting     Rearden, to wait
pu   open, release   CoPuGolzeron = fists, literally “not-open-hand-plural”
dis   negative, reversed   DisPor = lost, literally  “not - located”
huun   remove, out of     HuunGer, =  dig,        Hunsthomm - excavate
guun   after   as in guul, back.    GuunNolWerfer =   Gunolwerf - resettle
wehrn   before   as in wer, front      KhorimWehrn = old age
ta   again, repeat   TaHuhn = forge, strike
ko   do the opposite of   KoThergerim = undwarven ways, discourteous
pe   with, together   as in peNegrinUth, surrounding  (lit. “with - all - us”)
tol   below, under   as in tol,  underground
ke   above   as in kerrin, high
un   like, same,  resembling   UnSthommErons = those like stone
ber   next to, beside   BerKerrin =  subordinate (next to high one)
yeh   do, doing   Yeh-Gerinn = farming    YehMith = metalworking
ek    More, -er   Thus:  unarilek, ekunaril = prettier (no ‘than’ is required in a dwarven sentence of comparison)
it    Most, -est   unarilit, itunaril = prettiest (no ‘the’ is required in a dwarven sentence of comparison)
yim   One who does something, -er, -ist   a suffix used for a person or title, such as ‘Muryim’, Miner – from ‘mur’, meaning ‘mine’ 


You will see from this list that you can make a comparative form with 'ek', either at the beginning or end of a word.

If you want to create a title, you can add 'yim' - which works for both our tharian 'er' and 'ist', as in 'miner' and 'violinist'.     

Hope that helps!





Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Ganinon on 04 March 2008, 10:12:46
Thanks Judy! I was making a dwarven cook that his last name might be something about food maker...Make his whole family for generations be cooks so the name would work. Thanks again!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 31 May 2008, 17:02:55
Words for Armour

Helm - Miththomir
Gorget - Homthir   
Spaulders - Puvmitir
Fauld - Rusmitir
Sabaton - Tenithir
Sabatons - Tenitherons

Plate armour - Aroonmithir
Full armour - Jiketenemith / Jikehmithir



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Santhos Avathcin on 24 August 2008, 06:31:37
just one but a practical one
Urtdon - with a short o -Hello -derived from urt den or good day


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 24 August 2008, 09:35:15
Mmmmm, thank you, but as the dwarven day is actually the human night, it would be odd for them to use that particular expression to greet each other.  Language springs from a deep understanding of culture and something so basic as a greeting needs to reflect that (for example, the Koreans use phrases that translate literally as 'Peace be with you' and 'Have you eaten rice yet today?', depending upon the formality of the situation!) 

'Urtdon' might be a general comment on the weather, except that caverns are pretty immune to weather changes, not to mention time of day....
However, I appreciate the concept - you seem to have spotted a gaping hole in the language - so I'll turn my energy to providing some ideas for dwarven greetings and partings!  Watch this spot.....




Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 13 September 2008, 20:24:58
Derived from the working of our wonderful Bard;

'Steward' -> 'Heoryim' (one who stores up)
'Stewards' (as seen in the Trumaden Heyim, 'Stewards of the Holy Blood' -> 'Heyim'



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 26 December 2008, 23:34:42
Stal- Silver


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Morden Peshirgolz on 27 December 2008, 03:27:11
Kern-Air
Pop-Explosion (of air, from Polula-laughter)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 31 December 2008, 05:42:10
Would UnSthommAverim (Derivate->Unsthoverim) be suiteable for "Bone"?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 31 December 2008, 09:44:41
Not a bad derivative, but something so basic shouldn't be an agglomeration, just a 'base' word.
I've wanted some cognates of 'sth' for a while anyhow, so you can have

Stho - bone
Sthonerons - bones
Sthoni - bony, osseous, calcified

Thohthom - skull
Mustho - skeleton
Grum - tooth
Grumerons - teeth


There, hope that helps!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 31 December 2008, 19:01:28
Quite, as such words are very useful in naming cave locations and such!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 31 December 2008, 20:03:43
*groans* I want a DictioDwarf! There are no colour words in the dictionary, but they áre referred to :P

I hoped to combine a word for green with life to make plant, and then add length for Vine.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 31 December 2008, 20:34:44
Oh, I'm sorry!  I know, I have a ton of words in my dictionary file that just have to be added yet.
I thought I'd posted the colour words to this thread at one point though....  ok, I'll search my various files:


black - Morsek
grey -
white -
pink - 
red - Oonsek
purple - Dasek
lavender -
light blue –
dark blue -
turquoise – Kasek (colour)
light green -
dark green -
yellow -
golden -
orange -

Right, that's embarrassing!  There don't seem to BE colour words in dwarven yet!  I hide my bardic head in shame.
Perhaps we could use a cognate from the ThergerimTaal for emerald and peridot and try 'Gnasek' for 'green'?

However, I can just give you a word for 'plant' - and a few more while I'm at it.

Plant – Stuon
Tree – Stukaor
Vine – Stukarolon
Moss – Krr
Moonmoss - Krruth
Bright – Urril
Shine, to – Urmi
Glow, to  - Uthuu



Oh, some more words which I'm not sure made it up yet:

Sekket – colourful
Katinn – outside, exterior
Som – ledge
Suk – Coal (the naturally-occurring material.  For ‘coals’, see ‘Sohnsuk’…)
Sohnsuk –  ember
Sohnsukerons – embers, hot coals
Ardeninn – Breathing
Arfuinn – Blowing, puffing
Sohnsuk Arfuinn – the game of ember-blowing



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 31 December 2008, 20:38:59
Once again you have saved the day! Now i can finally URI Rookie's vine and add Dwarven terminology and views!

Oh, and; Aura point for providing much-needed info!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 31 December 2008, 20:41:35
(blushes) which I should've had onsite already, but thank you most graciously, dear Gardenlord!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 31 December 2008, 20:48:38
Consider is a speedy-delivery bonus. It took you but half an hour to get a scroll from New Santhala all the way to M'aghin!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Falethas Whisperwind on 01 January 2009, 01:00:40
Just looking at the colour words you posted and the word sekket for "colourful," would it be reasonable to derive

sek(k?) "colour"...?

Oh, and for "dark green," could we possibly have krrsek (lit. "moss-colour")? Just throwing ideas around here, I've never tried my hand at the dwarf-tongue before.  :P


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 01 January 2009, 01:37:03
As unsekket means coloured, sekk would probably be the most consistent choice.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 01 January 2009, 08:25:10
'Sek' is indeed 'colour' or 'pigmentation', you clever ones!   And I finally created/unearthed the rest of the hues.  They are based on the gemstones, or rather, the gemstone names were based on colours.... anyhow, here's the basics.

 I'll gladly add more sophisticated hues such as 'moss' to the spectrum as well; just remember that although dwarven eyes are adapted for lowlight situations, certain colours still look very similar and subtle distinctions may not 'register' well.   Red looks black, for example....  I haven't taken that too far - they still have their own separate words for the two colours, and of course dwarves have light sources and go aboveground, so they can distinguish those hues in other lights - but we need to remember that flames and phosphorescence will both lend their own colour cast to any particular shade.


black - Morsek
grey - Trumsek
white - Bhisek
pink -  Kharsek
red - Oonsek
purple - Dasek
lavender - Julsek
light blue – Ysek
dark blue - Ansek
turquoise – Kasek (colour)
light green - Gnasek
dark green - Sognasek
grey-green - Krrsek
yellow - Ursek
golden - Mithsek
orange - Elsek


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Santhos Avathcin on 12 January 2009, 04:01:31
Just one quick bounce back. I understand that I am new to this so forgive me if I'm still doing badly at this but there are dwarves who live above ground and couldn't it be that dwarves such as the Kavoninn Yabarrah would live by night and day and need phrases that would work with others who also lived in such a way hereby making Urtdon a possible phrase of greeting even if just for those who dwell above the ground?

If not maybe something along the lines of Thelon neen alv  - May your beard grow long (though I could not fin the words for may or your.)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 28 January 2009, 04:33:02
Dear Bard, how would you translate "MegiUlkiwiSthon"?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 28 January 2009, 09:40:54
Can I have any kind of context?  Some words haven't made it into my copy of the dictionary, which is the most comprehensive to date, afaik....

Megi = Crystal
 Ulkiwi = New
Sthon = (not recorded in my dictionary - the closest I have is 'Sthomm', meaning Stone)

I'd take a guess at "New-Crystal Gem", as a name for some type of jewel or mineral.    How'm I doing?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 28 January 2009, 15:27:07
Ah, i mistyped that then.. It was supposed to be calcite crystals.. from which you make plaster. "Crystal of Young/New Stone"


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 28 January 2009, 23:49:04
Ah, ok.  But proper names, though they may be conglomerates, usually have elided over the centuries.

May I suggest that 'calcite' become  'MegulgiSthomm' (from MegiUlkiwiSthon, 'crystal of new stone') and 'plaster' something like 'Megulgian'?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 29 January 2009, 01:47:41
It did... In the Roori Vine entry it has been eroded down to Mulkisth, or would that be to harsh a deterioration?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 29 January 2009, 16:53:06
I'll see ya a Mulki and raise you a Sthomm....

If it's a mineral, it should have one of the 'rock' words at its end to signify that (as all the gems do, for example)
I'd go for Mulkisthomm, or even Kisthomm to the dwarves and Kisth to humans.  I rather like 'Kisth' for calcite, actually.... :D  Should I run over and update the Tabulata?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 30 January 2009, 01:51:49
We have a deal, Masterbard! Kisthomm it is!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: wesley on 27 March 2009, 04:39:27
Kembol: Knowledge that hurts ( Keem bull )
Kemeka: Painful Peace ( kem ic ah )
Bachika: makeing peace from Bachik and Eka ( Bach ik ah )


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: wesley on 15 December 2009, 14:41:13
Moria: Dark Success

References Mines of Moria in Fellowship of the ring
The Mines were succesful untill the Bullrock came. Then they became dark and evil.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 June 2011, 03:59:31
Here's a question for Judy: I need a Thergerim word for "Rift", or more precisely a "rift in the fabric of time and space", a magical phenomenon.

And to explain the whole thing a bit better: I have mentioned such phenomena already here and there in an entry or two, but now got an idea I'd like to turn into a little parable (hope this is the right term for such an allegorical story), so here's what I'm thinking about. "Rifts" are rare "natural" occurrences of magical energy, weaknesses in the fabrics of time and space. They can be discovered e.g. by dwarves mining deep down in a mountain where they encounter such a rift, which might work as a portal to another space/time - or not, nobody knows for sure. It might be very dangerous to enter such rifts, so it is not recommended to mine in areas like this or even come close to it. So I'd need sort of a terminus technicus the dwarves come up with - they mostly exist underground I'd say.


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 June 2011, 10:35:18
OK, will check on my home computer tonight!   I believe we have words for 'cut' but not for 'tear' or 'rip', so that will be helpful to create those.    Probably I'll combine the Thergerim for 'door' and 'tear' to create your technical term :)   The dwarves would feel very strongly about such phenomena, as they are uncontrolled and irregular....yet happening within the reign and dominion of Trum'Barol...  so perhaps from their viewpoint they are manifestations of evil or chaos (yet the Thergerim do not actually have a personification of evil such as the Terran Satan or the Twelvern Co'or.... hmmmm....)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 16 June 2011, 11:35:43
Bard, if the Thergerim view Trum'Barol as a builder, then perhaps their idea of evil would be something that does not build? A destroyer, rather than a creator?

As for tear, if I might make a suggestion:

Drazilyeh

from Dra- rough
and horzilyeh- cut


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 16 June 2011, 11:48:14
I vote for that one.  It has my name in it.   :cool:


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 June 2011, 14:10:22
As you're talking about the phenomenon, Judy, and my little tale deals with philosophical implications...

Difficult question: If the dwarves see this as a manifestation of evil and chaos - how would they react if they saw figures inside the phenomenon, who are probably trapped? Would they see a chance in rescuing them? Would they try it? Or strongly recommend against it as the results could be unpredictable? Would they have faith that they are supposed to do that? Or would they seal the tunnel off? Would the trapping of these persons be considered a punishment by Trum'Barol, or would it even be considered fate? Do you have a tendency on the dwarven perspective?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 June 2011, 15:05:32
I have needed to examine the dwarven perspective on evil and sin more closely for a while.  Those few dwarves who violate the social system are usually banned from it (exiled Aboveground) so there aren't very many 'punishments'... either secular or religious.  Discipline is strict and consistent and it appears that the dwarven nature is far more comfortable with that (less of a rebellious spirit, more complacent, etc.) than the human (while more earthy and practical than the minds of the elves).

Hm.  If you want to introduce these phenomena, they would indeed have an effect on the dwarven philosophy.  They see Underground as their 'natural' world, Aboveground as a sort of 'necessary evil' or another sphere, in which they can work and live but don't find comfortable (slightly akin to Purgatory, but it is not an afterlife situation!).  The deeper they go down, the closer to the physical AND spiritual realm of their god they get.

Therefore, 'rifts' or any phenomena under the ground would be violations of the natural order - spaces created by a chaotic, unformed, random factor rather than by planned and disciplined intelligence....a very frightening concept for dwarves to consider.     

Rescuing them...is that possible with Earthen magery?  Trum'Barol would doubtless look with favour upon closing such rifts in His realm, but not with sentient beings inside, so on the whole I think the Thergerim would see any trapped individuals as random victims rather than punished malefactors, would attempt to extricate them, and then to seal up such rifts, which they would find highly offensive.       Dwarves hate disorder and 'brokenness' and would attempt to 'repair' or heal any such deviations from their meticulous norm...and they have longer than the average human to work it out, too.    Does that work with your concepts and theories?   


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 June 2011, 02:45:58
Sorry to be so enigmatic, Judy, it's just a short tale I have in mind... ;) But I don't want to spoil it, even though the whole story is practically already all contained in my question/parts of your answer... :lol:

Let's say it the following way. See if that's ok with you from the dwarven philosophical/religious point of view:

- The rift is seen as an anomaly, so they'd usually close off access to it.
- However, should there be people entrapped obviously, they might try to save them. Even though it's extremely risky and the consequences might even be deadly for the rescuer... Let's say: Heroic dwarves would try that, maybe not every regular dwarf.
- Say: The attempt by force fails, the magical field is extremely powerful.
- Say: The attempt by dwarven magic fails, the magical field is still too powerful.
- I assume the dwarves then would say: Ok, guys, this isn't meant to be. We shouldn't interfere further, and who knows who or what these figures actually are? So they'd close access off to prevent further damage, saying: We've tried, but if it refuses to bend to dwarven power it must be there for a reason only Trum'Barol knows.

Would that work for you?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 17 June 2011, 02:50:38
Aren't dwarves meant to be really obstinate? They might take a long time to make up their mind about something, but once they get going... well... they keep going until the task is done (or until they blow themselves up). Or is that just the racial stereotype? ;) Is it in dwarven nature to shrug and move on?

Hehe - I'm learning a lot from this Q&A session! Thanks Arti & Judith :D


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 June 2011, 03:00:04
Well, yes, the dwarven stubbornness could be added here as well and actually help me in the context I'm trying to sketch in my little tale.

So let's say: What I posted above basically applies, but before they give up they'd try again and again, and only if all fails, they'd come to the aforementioned conclusion to seal it up. But their main intention would be to put effort into it, even though they're regularly failing...


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 17 June 2011, 09:43:40
I would have no problem with that scenario at all, Art!  Absolutely they would 'try, try, try, try, try...again' but if their attempts continued to fail they would commend the 'trapped individuals' to the care of Trum'Barol (dwarves don't make sacrifices or offerings as we would think of those, but they do pray, and they do 'consecrate' good work to their deity...) and then put their energy into containing or sealing the rift - 'sad but inevitable' - possibly with a commemorative/warning inscription graven into the rock of the area, so that the next generation of miners doesn't open up the tunnel again!   I'm  not saying that's what you have to make happen in your story, of course (bats her eyes innocently) but I think you have the right perspective on the Thergerim philosophy - pragmatic...


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 17 June 2011, 14:50:27
Okeydokey, many thanks, Judy! :) I hope things will get a bit clearer when you'll see the whole point of the story, even though it's a bit of a mystery... :lol:

P.S. Now I'd only need a name for the phenomenon and I'm set!


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 17 June 2011, 16:16:48
Oh, these teasers! How long will you need to finish this, Art?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 17 June 2011, 19:19:51
Righty-ho.   Enough discussion in the language thread!
  ThergerimTaal has a few new words.


tear (noun:  eye-water-jewel)  Kenulil

tear (noun:  rip, aperture) - Drazil

tear (verb:  to rip apart) Drazilyeh

rift, cleft – (noun:  torn portal) Uozil 

Which makes two interesting possibilities that the Thergerim could choose from in naming these evil phenomenae.... :)

DisAveruozil -  Against-Time-Rift

AkotUozil – Evil Rift

And for just a little more distinction:

PukotUozil – Open Evil Rift
RakotUozil – Closed Evil Rift

Pukot – open (adjective)
Rakot - closed (adjective)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 17 June 2011, 22:01:22
Did anyone else notice that the Bard's suggestion for tear as the noun meaning rip is almost the same as the name of one of our dear Bestiary Moderators? I hope that is simply a mere coincidence on the part of the Bard. :D


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 18 June 2011, 08:12:56
The original word was Valan's contribution, and I will assume also coincidental.

"As for tear, if I might make a suggestion:  Drazilyeh   from Dra- rough  and horzilyeh- cut"

I modified it because 'yeh' is the verbifier in ThergerimTaal.  Thus 'Drazil' is the noun 'rip, tear, aperture' and 'Drazilyeh' is 'to rip, to tear, to sunder'


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 18 June 2011, 10:32:13
More vocabulary, because I noticed it was missing or incomplete.


time – Aver (from AveVer, elided)

day –  Denaver (24 hours, from dusk to dusk),
          Ind (12 hours from dawn to dusk), 
         Ar (12 hours from dusk to dusk),
         Urtilav (lighttime),
         Mortilav (darktime)

month –  (moon)  Ralaver
year -  Var
decade - Govar
century -  Egrivar
millennium - Oltgyrvar

100 (hundred) =   Egri
1000 (thousand) = Oltgyr
10 000  (ten thousand) = Megron 
100 000  (a hundred thousand) = Grigonn 
1, 000 000 (one million) = Kgromyr



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 18 June 2011, 16:28:29
Many thanks for the words, Judy - I guess I'll go with "AkotUozil" (Evil Rift), because the actual nature of the rift can vary. It might be a time rift (as suggested by the other word), could also be just a space rift, a portal to another place. Or combined. But nobody really knows how to interpret rifts, that's the problem... :)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 18 June 2011, 17:04:10
Many thanks for the words, Judy - I guess I'll go with "AkotUozil" (Evil Rift), because the actual nature of the rift can vary. It might be a time rift (as suggested by the other word), could also be just a space rift, a portal to another place. Or combined. But nobody really knows how to interpret rifts, that's the problem... :)

Not even Pug the Magician and Macros the Black ... and they know more about Rifts than anyone else on Midkemia :evil:

Oh sorry, this isn't Midkemia, is it?

Dek


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Santhos Avathcin on 12 September 2011, 06:10:38
I'm sorry to keep bringing this up but as a character that speaks Thergerim I would like to know what greetings Santhos would use. I suggested one but never got a response. Could a little more attention be devoted in that direction?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 12 September 2011, 07:49:27
Santhos,

As this is the development forum, our main focus here is on issues surrounding development, not issues surrounding characters from the RPing forum.

Please repeat your question in your post as well, and that would make it more likely that the Bard will be able to give you a suggestion on it. I don't have the time to go back through this thread, or whatever thread it was you asked your question in to find it.

Or, maybe you could just say Santhos says "hello" in dwarvish or something ... not many others are necessarily going to have the dwarven dictionary in their back pocket over in the rping forum, after all. I definitely don't.

Now, getting back to dwarven words for rifts ... it seems to me that rifts are something akin to the wormholes from Star Trek or the Star Gates from Stargate SG1 ... would anyone else support that thought?

Oh, and as this is thread is for dwarven language, I guess I should ask a question about the dwarven langauge. So here goes, are there dwarven words in existence for gate, star and trek?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Santhos Avathcin on 12 September 2011, 12:01:58
I was rather angry in typing this so most people please feel free to just skip to the last lines which is where the real point is.

I'm starting to feel rude, and I'm terribly sorry. However, allow me to communicate my point more clearly and with a bit more spine. Please don't look at this as a needy character but as a significant gap in the language you have developed.

You may not have a dictionary in your back pocket but there is one readily accessible on the site unless I'm mistaken. Anyone may look up any phrase in case they are unable to identify the meaning from the context it is in.

If I was to talk of my characters usage of any said phrase it would be in Thergerim and the rest of the speech in Tharian. However I am instead going to focus on the lack of these practical words which are being over shadowed with how to say Star Trek an talk about rifts in this language. I have no problems with your pursuit of these but to have them over shadow the more necessary ones is frustrating to say the least.

I don't develop languages nor would I be any good at it so I leave it to you to fill in these gaps and come up with the proper words and phrases.

My question is what are dwarven greetings and farewells?
My suggestions: Urtdon - with a short o -Hello -derived from urt den or good day
-or-
Thelon neen alv - May your beard grow long


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Kareesh Valendar on 13 September 2011, 11:09:56
People get busy and forget things. I understand where you're coming from, Santhos, but we need to keep in mind that all of us are merely humans. Also the people over here on the dev board are working on several projects and for the most part it doesn't spill over into the RP board that often.

Anywho, I don't develop languages either, but this what I used for Miés'áel's Thergerim greeting: Urtden chingu which means "Good day, friend". I figured that was pretty good, albeit a bit far from a simple "Hello".

My suggestion about "Thelon neen alv" would be that sounds more like parting words as opposed to a greeting.

I don't think there are any greetings here, but have you checked out the Proverbs and Sayings (http://santharia.com/culture/proverbs_and_sayings.htm) page yet? It has several sayings/proverbs from many different people groups. Worth checking out if you haven't done so already. :)


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Mina on 13 September 2011, 15:19:38
Bard Judith already indicated that "good day" won't work for dwarves, due to cultural reasons.  I could not come up with a proper translation for "may your beard grow long".  The closest I managed was

. Ave Uhn Neen Ro Thelon .
  FUT you grow tall beard
"You will grow a long beard"

Uhn is singular 'you'; plural would be uhnegrin, according to this thread (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12693.0.html).  There seems to be no word for 'your' listed there.  However, this page (http://www.santharia.com/languages/thergerim/thergerim.htm) has uhnu in a sentence where 'your' appears in the translation; given the similarities, that might be the word for 'your'.  I picked 'tall' instead of 'long' because alv was listed in the dictionary as indicating horizontal length, and I'm not sure it could applied to something mostly vertical like beards. 

I agree with Kareesh that it sounds more like parting words though.  For a greeting, I would suggest:

? Uhn Urt ?
  you good
"Are you well?"

? Fer Uhn Urt ?
 PAST you good
"Have you been well?"

(However, the thread in my first link lists the past tense particle as ver, so maybe it has been changed.  )

Of course, these are just guesses.  It would be best to ask Bard Judith herself.  Have you tried her bell-ringing thread (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,3561.0.html)? 


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 27 April 2012, 23:25:24
Just out of interest, are there any thoughts on a Thergerim word for Sun?


Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Bard Judith on 28 April 2012, 09:20:14
sun – Mezaril   (has the sense of 'burning gem')

Also, a nickname for Humans is Vothuten - “Sunlover”     The verb 'Enn' is 'to love', and the syllable 'Voth' also occurs in the word for lava.  So it would seem that 'Vothu' is another word for the sun, related again to 'fire/burn/flame/hot'     

Since neither 'hot' nor 'cold' are in my ThergerimTaal dictionary, I'm going to now officially make 'Voth' the adjective for 'hot'
 (and incidentally, 'Vhod' is 'ice', so 'Vho' is going to be 'cold'.    Let me spell that all out:


Sun - Mezaril (burning gem)
Sun - Vothu  (hot thing, with the sense of releasing or giving off contained in the 'u' ending.  Perhaps 'thing which glows'  is a good connotation here)
Hot - Voth
Cold - Vho



Title: Re: New Thergerim (dwarvish) vocabulary here!
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 28 April 2012, 14:25:48
Thank you Judith ... much appreciated :)