Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Victhorin on 21 July 2004, 23:48:00



Title: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 21 July 2004, 23:48:00
OK, this is the entry about the stone i wrote about in my Library-entry, the "Journals".

The Soul of the City

Overview

The Soul of the City (Thergerim “Morongetyr”, short for “MorsekOngzetyr” lit. Dark Heart of the City) is the common name for the largest black diamond carved out of the Zharkanion Mountain rang, the great mountain chain of Nybelmar. It was discovered by dwarven miners on the same day that Menemronn, the evil wizard from the east, struck the Nybelmargerim with all his fury. As the Kormor Toltrumerim, the greatest dwarven mine of that time, collapsed the roof of the tunnel in which the diamond was discovered also fell in.
It was locked up under the council-area, in Tyr Faerath, in a vault with a thick door, guarded by soldiers, and locked with seven locks. Magic only the dwarves know of was used to seal the door so that all seven locks have to be opened at the same time, by the owner of every key and of his own free will for the door to open.

Description

The stone is one of the most impressive jewels in all of Caelereth. It has the shape of an orb. The dwarves of old used all their skills to perfect the stone and when looked upon it seems flawless. Its surface is smooth and the black color is very deep. The few Kiingerims that have had the pleasure to hold the stone in their hands say that it’s warmer than one might expect. The color makes you think you can see things moving inside the orb much like the Orb of Bluestride. But this is just a trick by the color that fools the eye.

Its size if roughly a palmspan in diameter and it is very heavy for it size, almost ???.

Usage

The Kiingerim don’t really use the Soul to anything more than an item of belief and comfort. The fact that it’s locked up and safe makes the dwarves feel safe.

History

Hundreds of years after the end of the War of the Chosen, the dwarves, heard of the lightstones of the Emerald Forest. The Kiingerim were once again strong behind a high wall and wanted their god-given stone back. The elves didn’t want the stones anymore, but as the elves hate dwarves, they first refused. The dwarves answered with cutting of the traderoutes.
The elves just laughed at that. They could do without the trade to the west.

This made the dwarves mad and for the first time since the War of the Chosen, the dwarven army was once again ready for war. They started their march to the east and the Emerald Forest, but the only fight they fought was with a small group of elven scouts. When the closed in on the forest an emissary came out stating that the elves hereby gave the dwarves a gift. This 0made the dwarves even more angry but they took the stone and turned home.
The emissary could not resist and shouted: “Try not to loose it this time!”
The emissary was dead three seconds later.

The most fascinating story about the Morongetyr is perhaps the one about how it was stolen. For more than 7800 years it had its place within the vault. The stone was considered a myth by many of the common dwarves.
The stone is said to be impossible to steal, as you need the approval of all seven council members to open the door. That is if you don’t have powerful magic backing you up. The fact that it’s so hard to steal has created a saying among the Kiingerim. “Certain as the Morongetyr is still in place” means that something is undeniably certain.

This belief was torn by the theft of the stone in 302 b.S. How the thieves did it is not known, but one day, when the new guards came down to the vault to relieve the old ones they found them dead, the vault opened and the Soul gone.
They immediately called for the council and the seven members came. None had lost his key and all had good alibis even though the door had not been broken up and the locks were intact. Speculations began if it was an act of an enemy of city, a mighty wizard or if Tyr Hthom had lost his trust in them. They all agreed not to spread the word as that would worry the population too much.
The military leader, the Hthom, was given the order, by the council, to find the Soul and take it back. He had one month to complete the task or, according to the myth the city would be doomed.
Usually a military leader would seize the opportunity to reinforce his army and start a massive search operation. But Tyrilin Opolin knew better. He knew that the soldiers would not be able to keep quite so he turned to those who always kept quite. The thieves of the city.
He could not approach them directly as thieves and militaries rarely like each other, so he got in touch with his Chief of spies. The Chief arrange a meeting with the seven best thieves.
Although the crimes committed in the city were few, thieves still existed, even though the thieves of Tyr Faerath were more civilized and calm than most thieves. Murder happened only once every ten years.
The seven of them were sent out to find the Soul with the promise that they would be richly awarded. They all went in different direction at first.

Thirteen days later the Hthom heard that the first hade come back. Apparently he had given up. He also said he had seen two of the others fall when fighting Chyrrakisth warriors and he had heard that two more had given up and were now settled in Kormendale.
That left two to hope for and still the council and the Hthom were the only ones who knew about the theft.
One of the returned on the very last day of the month. He was coming from the east and sand and dust covered him from top to toe. His eyes were damaged from the bright sun and he limped due to a cut in his leg. But he had the Morongetyr with him, rapped up in an old piece of cloth. He fell to his knees as he entered the Main Gate and had to be carried home by his friends.

The Soul was taken back to its vault when the council spread the word that the Soul had been lost but that The Searcher Dolo Groilin, son of a thief, had brought it back. When the council went to the thief’s home to give him his reward he had died from the infection in his leg.

The funeral was the most impressive in the history of the town. Every dwarf came to witness the procession as they took the dead body of Dolo to the vault were he was laid to rest with the Soul of the City. The city he saved at the cost his life.


The Aftermath of the Theft

302 b.S.
After the recovering of the Morongetyr the Kiingerim did not look favourably upon the cousins of the plains who had tried to steal it. The council shut them out of the trade agreements and all Kavogerim, living inside or outside of the city were considered outlaws. Many Kavogerim had to move out of the city and live as refugees causing much death among them.

There were also talk among the army, who had friend murdered in the theft, to declare war on the Plaindwarves. The reason this was not done was due to the decision of Tyrilin Opolin, the military leader. He knew of the capacity of the Kavogerim when it came to warfare and that the Kiingerim-army was nothing without their walls. Once again, his wise mind saved the city.

301 b.S.
A group of twenty Kavogerim sought a meeting with the ruling Traders-Council of the city. They were the ten most respected Mothuttelerons and Denirimerons and they said they spoke for all of their tribe. Mothuttelerons were Clan Mothers of the Kavogerim and the leaders of the different clans. The Denirims were the priests of the tribe.

The Council did not turn them down and a closed meeting was held inside the council-area in the inner parts of the city. After three days they all came out and the Council president declared that they had accepted the apologies and that a new trade agreement was made. In this agreement, the Kavogerims went down from 1/7 of all the taxes and tariffs to 1/10. That was a mighty blow to the already poor tribe, but better 1/10 than nothing.

The Morhuttelerons told the Council that the fifteen dwarves who stole the stone were renegades and outlaws. They acted upon their own will, or someone else, but not their Morhuttel. Who had aided them in opening the vault they did not know. One Mothuttel said that “they got what they deserved. We found the bodies in the desert. Whoever did that was indeed skillful.” [read “Journals” for more info]

The Kavogerims who were recently considered outlaws were now taken back under the wings of the city and the Council paid them a nice sum for the suffering.

285 b.S.
A second meeting between the Council and the leading Kavogerims was held, this time in a Holtyr in the desert, which is a small city dug into the desert.

At that meeting it was decided to go back to the old agreement. The Kavogerim would get 1/7 of the income from taxes from the caravans in addition to the money that was paid by the caravan-owners for protection.

They also decided to have these meetings every fifth year. The next would again be held at Tyr Faerath. The theft actually made the relationship stronger between the two tribes.

Myth/Lore

The Kiingerim believe that their God, TyrHthom, created the jewel as a token of his protection and love for the tribe.
They say that he forged the stone under supervision of Trum-Baroll in the forges of Trum Dispor’Baroll.
Tyr Hthom, The Head of the City, is the god of the Kiingerim and the protector of the tribe. He is the brother of Hunyeh Hthom, Head of the Mine that is the protector of Kavogerim and before that the Toltrumerim. They trained with Trum-Baroll as apprentices.

Tyr Hthom also poured his protection, his love for the dwarves, into the stone. As he was not a strong god, his strength would only last as long as the stone would rest inside the walls of the city. If taken outside of those the powers would only last one month. After that the tribe would begin to diminish.

When Menemronn, the dark wizard in the times of the War of the Chosen, started his attack on the dwarves, crushing them inside the towns and mines, he first stole the stone to use it in his throne.

When Menemronn later fell the elves took all the lightstones to the Emerald Forest. They believed the stone could do good things. They were wrong. The stone only led to mistrust, crimes and war.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/28/04 22:33


Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 July 2004, 12:28:00
Victhorin, no time to read your entry thoroughly. But I thought, it might be nice, if you compare this orb with other orbs known, that of Xarl or the one of Ximax, and if you just state, that they are something different. you are a writer for the compendium and have surely heard of them.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Bard Judith on 22 July 2004, 19:44:00
Hey, Victhorin!  Nice to have an entry for this, and I've loved the concept all along.  However, I note THREE different spellings of the name of the stone.  :hammer   Could you pick one?  Or perhaps note that it's "***" in dwarven but "*XXX" in human (that is, if the humans of the region even know about it...)



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 23 July 2004, 00:56:00
Ok Judith, Morongetyr is the correct form. I changed it just before putting it up so I missed a few of them. It should be OK now.

No, I don't think the stone is known to other races on Nybelmar. The translation therfore is just for the Compendium readers who can not read ThergerimTaal. The Kavogerim (obviously) and the Chaogerim do knows about it I think, and there are some jealousy one can imagine.

Yes Talia. To compare the orb with another would be good. I'll check out the mentioned orb. I've never read about it. Ximax is not really my area of expertise.  

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 24 July 2004, 00:31:00
Proof read Judith?

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Bard Judith on 26 July 2004, 05:52:00
Waaaah!  |I  

Sorry, Victhorin, no time - literally.  I'm just reading over the forums as fast as possible in a smoke-filled internet cafe at the edge of the Korean university which is providing us dormitory space for our summer camp at the moment...
and I have to go to bed so as to be ready for a new week tomorrow!  :  (sniffs, looks apologetic)   Perhaps someone like Erynn could have a look in?  She writes beautifully and comments articulately, so try asking her directly if you need to get this up soon...

Again, love the concept!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 26 July 2004, 05:58:00
I'll check it today... Give me some time...


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World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 26 July 2004, 09:01:00
Okeydokey, here I am with some comments:

- I would suggest to also give a literal translation in brackets of Thergerim words when you first mention them, especially when they're not 1:1 identical with the Tharian expression. Usually we put these literal translations in the first sentence of the Overview like this: "The Soul of the City (Thegerim MorsekOngzetyr, lit. "Dark Hued Heart of the City") is the common ..." etc. Also you don't mention really that this all takes place in Nybelmar. Just think about people reading this entry - they need to know where to put it all!

- Also try to be a bit more precise about terms you use for the first time in an entry. An entry shouldn't leave questionmarks open. This is the case e.g. when you speak of the "Zharkanions". If you'd write at the first time Zharkanions Mountain Range or Highlands, than everybody knows what you mean. Otherwise it might actually confuse people quite a bit, you know. - Or you mention "Menemronn" as if everybody should know, who he was. Just add a title or some attributes and people might understand what you mean much easier. Or "Kormor Toltrumerim", mention that it's a famous dwarven mine etc. and much is won.

- "Magic only the dwarves know of was used "

- "and [the] its black color is very deep"

- I'd suggest to add a bit more to the Description part - how large is it, how heavy? This is all not mentioned.

- Usage. Well, I would really expand on that a bit. For dwarves I'm sure possessing such a diamond means much more than just to have it. They could see it as a gift of their God, as a sign of power and might, that their realm/tribe will forever be as strong as this diamond etc. You really make it too easy. I'm sure a Kiingerim dwarf could tell you why this gem HAD to be found by them! The fact that they lock it away so heavily guarded could be linked to something much deeper, e.g. that they see it as a sign of their kingdom or their city. - Doesn't it sound logical therefore to call it "Soul of the City"? For dwarves perhaps a soul would look like a gem somewhere in the caves where they imagine their god to reside. You should add something to the Overview in this respect as well. (Edit:) I saw you added something in this direction in the Myth/Lore section, but I think it should dominate the entry much more, being much more central.

- Good to see another saying here we can use in our "Proverbs and Sayings" collection.

- "Speculations began if it was a simple break-in, an act of an enemy of city, a mighty wizard or if Tyr Hthom had lost his trust in them," Simple break-in? Can this even be speculated? Tyr Hthom: A bit of an explanation please for non-Nybelmarians. Why is the God BTW called "Tyr"? "Tyr" means "town" doesn't it?

- 7 thieves - well, did he know them? Usually thieves don't talk directly to officials. Maybe he allowed already captured thieves out to search for the gem? Or he activated his relations to the underground and instructed them indirectly (perhaps the best solution). In the same way the whole "first one came back" sounds a bit too easy, this would all perhaps be more realistic if it went through some dark channels.

- The story itself is quite nice - nobody will ever know how it disappeared and how it was retrieved precisely;)

- "The Kiingerim say that"

- "They say that he forged the stone"

- "They say that he forge the stone under supervision of Trum-Baroll in the forges of Trum Dispor’Baroll." - This posed the question who exactly is this TyrHthom, and what is his relation to Trum-Baroll god-wise"? And who's Hunyeh? - Perhaps the dwarven religion for the Kiingerim should be defined?

- "Tyr Hthom chose Tyr Faerath as the name implies on hiding ..." - First of all I still don't know to what "Tyr Faerath" translates (found nothing in the entry) and "implies on hiding" I guess isn't proper English. I also don't know if it would be enough of a reason to save Tyr Faerath, simply because the names contains a reference to "hiding". (Don't know if I got this part right, though.)


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World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 26 July 2004, 09:51:00
Hmmm... I'd actually would find it more interesting if this stone would have a slightly different history, esspecially with a reason why the Chyrakisth are so interested in this stone.

I'd eventually make him the Lightstone of Earth, one of the eight stones used by Menemronn to project his power onto his opponents. The Kaýr took the four Lightstones which they deemed capable to use for healing the destruction of Menemronn's tyranny so the stones were brought to the Emerald forests. But these stones, even though containing fabled powers were deceiving and caused a terrible civil war between the Ifer'hem and the Kaýrrhem. I'd figure that after the war the elves wanted to hide these stones and possibly gave them to people they dare to trust.

I'd just like to connect this idea here with some other greater workings in Nybelmar.


Concerning the thieves, I really don't see why they would entrust thieves with such a mission even if it is meant to be kept secret. maybe instead one man of each ruling family was sent out, knowing one can trust them? Could be also explained why a certain family got a great reputation (for a twist it should be someone else than the warrior clan imho) although they otherwise don't do extraordinary things. Make it more a morale tale as well with real historical background.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 26 July 2004, 14:30:00
Koldar:

Quote:
esspecially with a reason why the Chyrakisth are so interested in this stone.


Are they? I just created the entry and already the Chyrakisth want it!

Quote:
I'd just like to connect this idea here with some other greater workings in Nybelmar.


And I would like to connect it with the five-six other entries I wrote. This is also a part of the Religion of the Kiingerim and the Kavogerim.

Quote:
I'd eventually make him(?) the Lightstone of Earth, one of the eight stones used by Menemronn to project his power onto his opponents


So, instead of the god to create the stone BEFORE Menemronn started his war, I should let it be made BY Menemronn? I must say I don't like that idea at all.

Concerning the thieves-part. That means I should have to change a lot of entries I'm working on. (The Journals mostly, in the Library Forum if you have the time, but also others.)

Quote:
maybe instead one man of each ruling family was sent out, knowing one can trust them?


So you want so send out fat merchants to hunt down experienced mercenaries? Tyr Faerath should be lucky they did not get The Knight of the Moonlight as their military leader back then. No, they are traders and smiths, and normal workers. They can not track or keep themselves from being seen. A thief would do that much better.

Quote:
Make it more a morale tale as well with real historical background.


REAL historical background??????????????????

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/25/04 22:41


Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 26 July 2004, 14:37:00
Artimidor

Great comments! I will flesh the text out more during this week. Hopefully it will be done by the weekend.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 26 July 2004, 15:43:00
Victhorin, what's up with you?


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 26 July 2004, 23:38:00
Basically that you just told me to change the enire entry. That wasn't small suggestions, tips and hints. That was major changes. That was turning my entry into something it wasn't from the start. And that makes me angry.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 27 July 2004, 07:40:00
This is basically what I had in mind about the gods of Nybelmargerim.

There are two gods.
Hunyeh Hthom is The Head of the Mine and the old god of the now extinct Toltrumerim. The language, I think, of the Toltrumerim would be somewhat different than ThergerimTaal. That would explain (and this is something Judith wrote so I feel safe) why Hunyeh Hthom means Head of the Mine.
“Mine” would in ThergerimTaal be “Mor” and not “Hunyeh”.

Are you with me so far?

After the WoC the old Toltrumerim became Plain- and Hill Dwarves and they took with them their good and the old name even if they change their “official” language to ThergerimTaal as we know it now. The still called their Head of the Mine his old name, Hunyeh Hthom.

Ok. With the name done it’s the myths turn.

Tyr Hthom, the protector of the High Dwarves and Hunyeh Hthom, the protector of the Toltrumerim were brothers and apprentices of the great Trum-Baroll. They learned to forge metal, stone, jewels and also faith. They were up in the mountain at the mystical High Lake were you can see the future. Tyr Hthom saw what Menemronn was going to do and warned his brother. Hunyeh Hthom did not care much and said that his Toltrumerim were invincible. They paid for that. Still they took their god with them when leaving for the hills and plains.

Tyr Hthom chose the smallest settlement, and forged a stone, the Soul of the City so that they would be safe. It worked. Tyr Faerath is till there.


As for the name of the town.
“Tyr” is “town” in both Toltrumerim-language and ThergerimTaal. So much is clear.

Fearath is old Toltrumerim-language that means “to hide, or hiding”. I know, I know. Tyr Faerath is an old KIINGERIM-town, but they would definitely be affected by the other tribe. Judith and I are discussing many new dwarven words on the Language Forum. “Hiding” is one of them.

The Toltrumerim DID have the letter “F”. That is why Faerath is still there.

Does anything of this make any sense?

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 27 July 2004, 07:41:00
After much consideration I hereby suggest that you reconsider wether your tone in your post two posts up is the wisest course of action in achieving your goals. As the post with my suggestions contain not a single 2nd person pronoun addressing you to do anything. There's also only a single imperative in the last sentence as a conclusion of what I'd find a neat idea in how to look at this entry. You'll also find at least two paragraphs starting with a conjunctive structure ("would") indicating the hypothetical nature of the following paragraph.

I'm willing to admit that my usage of the word "eventually" was based on the German meaning of the word "eventuell" which basically means nothing more than that I suggest to you to maybe consider my following thoughts and ideas on the topic. I'll not repeat that error in the future.

On the bottomline: I'm not certain you read or understood my post in the spirit you should have and I'm not certain you've written your reply in the spirit you really want me to answer your concerns. If you misinterpreted my intentions because of flaws in my English, my apologies, but just to be clear: Sarcasm is a weak rethoric weapon and it is not the tool of a mature discussion. Basically, make up your mind!




Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 27 July 2004, 10:10:00
First of all I am sorry.

Yes. After reading your post again I see that you did not order me as much as I thought. I do apologise.

Quote:
After much consideration I hereby suggest that you reconsider wether your tone in your post two posts up is the wisest course of action in achieving your goals. As the post with my suggestions contain not a single 2nd person pronoun addressing you to do anything. There's also only a single imperative in the last sentence as a conclusion of what I'd find a neat idea in how to look at this entry. You'll also find at least two paragraphs starting with a conjunctive structure ("would";)  indicating the hypothetical nature of the following paragraph.


Did not make me any wiser than before and that if something measures my english-skill.:o  

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 27 July 2004, 11:34:00
ok, no problem then, I just wanted to be sure. We're all stupid humans with more hormons than brain cells. ;)

As I've roamed the forum more thoroughly the last days than I was capable of the weeks before I found your library entry and found that someone else had the same thought as I did, maybe that irritated you, but I really didn't see that until today.

Anyway, the basic idea to make this one of the eight stones of Menemronn is simply to tie this entry to other things of Nybelmar, esspecially another precious artefact: The throne of Menemronn.

This is also not necessarily contradicting to the view of the dwarves that this stone was created by their gods. The idea I have about it, would be that this stone was robbed by Menemronn from the old cities that were destroyed and then used it for his Throne of Menemronn, the reason exactly being that it is the biggest black diamond ever found. Somewhere after the war this stone - which had become the Lightstone of Earth/Darkstone of Stone - was returned to the dwarves and hidden by them deep within their city.
The reason for this being to prevent that all eight stones ever again are all combined to create the pool of power Menemronn nurished and thus that once again doom might befall a dwarven city(just as it is saying now, just adding this already existing threat as additional explanation).
However as the stone also has this dwarven history of yours so the Kavogerim might claim it to reopen their mines (at least that way I interpret the Journals so far) However the bad thing with all the stones is that menemronn tinkered with them and thus their powers are deceptive. Storing it deep below a mountain in a secure chamber possibly being the only harmless thing someone can do with such an artefact.

Me mentioning the Chyrakisth was simply you did so concerning one of the dwarvesI drew the conclusion that they stole the stone or helped stealing it because they are interested in aquiring the Throne of Menemronn.

Now, why make a simple story so complex? The main thing would be simply to give such a powerful artefact more history than sitting in a chamber. Found by dwarves. Stolen by Menemronn and tinkered around with. Later reclaimed by elves. After lots of trouble the elves are willing to give it back to the dwarves (actually lots of trouble between dwarves and elves are possible here, too). Dwarves hide it deep in their city. Suddenly it gets stolen again... etc.
Another would be to keep simply the amount of such special artefact as small as possible.
And the last is to interweave one string of events with some others to make one idea have an effect of several things, not just one.

I simply would find this extremely interesting as it could create interesting tension and reason for extraordinary events/adventures/deeds something these stones I mentioned are meant to do and that the Kiingerim have a very personal agenda with it makes it just even more interesting.

This is simply an idea I would think incorporate this stone of yours into a greater context and can cause a whole avalanche of nasty surprises that could fill the Nybelmarian history.Like the Kaýr at first not giving the stone back to the Kiingerim explaining why only the korweynites are left as the Kaýr allies (they pi**ed off anyone else)

If you absolutely do not see something like that working (the above are just various ideas I see might be working because of it) I have to accept that. I just think this stone would have alot of potential story-/historywise when adding some more  ups and downs in its early history.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 28 July 2004, 00:01:00
Quote:
ok, no problem then, I just wanted to be sure. We're all stupid humans with more hormons than brain cells
:lol

I'll see what I can do.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 28 July 2004, 02:35:00
So, let me see if I got this right.

I can keep the part about the stone being created by a dwarven god (at least that is what the dwarves believe.)

The stone is kept inside, lets say Kerrintyr (capitol of the Kiingerim), until Menemronn steals it and after that crushes the dwarves.

Menemronn does his things with this stone as one of the eight stone, perhaps the Darkstone of Stone.

When he falls, and falls hard, the elves take the stones to the Emerald Forest.

There, they cause all kinds of trouble.

The dwarves of Tyr Faerath learn that the elves have it and demands to have it back.

The elves would be glad to get rid of it, but since they are elves and do not like dwarves very much, they grumble some, and then give it back.

The dwarves lock it up in a vault and…


Is that right? I must say I like it even if it’s not.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/29/04 10:25


Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 28 July 2004, 04:01:00
Yes, along these lines. Maybe we can cause outright trouble between dwarves and elves with tyr Faerath starting one of it's few military campaigns to demand it back . I think that as elves are elves there might be really nasty  conflict between the two sides. But yeah, you got it right! :)  


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Smith in Exile on 28 July 2004, 09:25:00
One thing was not right though: the stone cannot be the "darkstone" since the elves took only the "lightstones" => this should be the "good" stone not the "evil" one.  



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 28 July 2004, 13:19:00
you mean one of the good evil ones opposed to the evil evil ones or was it evil good...? ;)

Yes, lightstones are thought by the elves to be harmless and thus taken.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 29 July 2004, 02:40:00
Can anyone tell me the approx. denisty of diamonds?

Beside from that I think I'm pretty much done.

Kodar, please check the History and Myth/Lore-part.
I tried to separate the Myth and the History in “Before” and “After” the WoC.

I think they knowledge about the time before should be very limited, at least in Kiingerim point of view.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/28/04 11:07


Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 29 July 2004, 03:39:00

I added suggestions and possible additoions in orange. I'd flesh out the myth part and add some more info about the stone's history even if it's vague and unaccounted for., rumours so to speak.


History


[Maybe add here where it was supposedly found, that it was said to be lost for the dwarves in the WoC and Menemronn made of it the Lightstone of Earth. After the War the Elves as the leaders of the war against the last Chosen took the Lightstones with them warning the other races that the others might be harmful. The dwarves who participated in the last battle did not see the true nature of this particular Lightstone or did not dare to challenge the Kaýr at the peak of their power and with lots of grumbling  obeyed their call. Thus the stone came into the possession of the Kaýr and the knowledge of the history of this stone got lost in the seclusion of the Emerald woods. But the stones brought no luck to the elves and after several millenias even the Lightstones showed their deceptive nature and in the Civil War of teh Kaýr the word of these stones once again came to the ears of the dwarves and thought the time has come to demand back their property.

Well, that would be just one variant on the early years of the stones. Just add some more flesh on the whole history part.


Hundreds of years after the end of the War of the Chosen, the dwarves, heard of the lightstones of the Emerald Forest. The Kiingerim were once again strong behind a high wall and wanted their god-given stone back. The elves didn’t want the stones anymore, but as the elves hate dwarves, they first refused.

Well, I would put the whole event into the timeframe of the Elven Civil War. The Kaýr elves just realized that the usage of these stones is dangerous and simply didn't want to give it to someone else as they feared what could happen then.  They didn't want them but they also wanted these remnants of Menemronn's doing  to be handled by less "wise" races than them. At this point the Firestone would have been lost to the Ifer'hem and the Windstone probably disappeared in the Fall of the Korweynite Empire. Thus they also wanted to hold on the two they still had even if only for safekeeping. Given the religious nature this stone has for the dwarves it is apparent that this won't be enough to them.

The dwarves answered with cutting of the traderoutes.
The elves just laughed at that. They could do without the trade to the west. Instead of doing this  just let the relations between the two drastically tense up. The dwarves didn't dare to seek trouble with the Kaýr after the WoC because they were strong but now with all the trouble the elves have in their woods the situation is quite reversed.

This made the dwarves mad and for the first time since the War of the Chosen, the dwarven army was once again ready for war. They started their march to the east and the Emerald Forest, but the only fight they fought was with a small group of elven scouts. When the closed in on the forest an emissary came out stating that the elves hereby gave the dwarves a gift. This 0made the dwarves even more angry but they took the stone and turned home.
The emissary could not resist and shouted: “Try not to loose it this time!”
The emissary was dead three seconds later.

This is very funny but maybe not quite epic/serious enough considering what the dwarves think is at stake (and the elves, too, given that a dwarf army is marching their way)

The most fascinating story about the Morongetyr is perhaps the one about how it was stolen. For more than 7800[this is now obsolete I figure] years it had its place within the vault. The stone was considered a myth by many of the common dwarves.
The stone is said to be impossible to steal, as you need the approval of all seven council members to open the door. That is if you don’t have powerful magic backing you up. The fact that it’s so hard to steal has created a saying among the Kiingerim. “Certain as the Morongetyr is still in place” means that something is undeniably certain.

This belief was torn by the theft of the stone in 302 b.S. How the thieves did it is not known, but one day, when the new guards came down to the vault to relieve the old ones they found them dead, the vault opened and the Soul gone.
They immediately called for the council and the seven members came. None had lost his key and all had good alibis even though the door had not been broken up and the locks were intact. Speculations began if it was an act of an enemy of city, a mighty wizard or if Tyr Hthom had lost his trust in them. They all agreed not to spread the word as that would worry the population too much.
The military leader, the Hthom, was given the order, by the council, to find the Soul and take it back. He had one month to complete the task or, according to the myth the city would be doomed.
Usually a military leader would seize the opportunity to reinforce his army and start a massive search operation. But Tyrilin Opolin knew better. He knew that the soldiers would not be able to keep quite so he turned to those who always kept quite. The thieves of the city.
He could not approach them directly as thieves and militaries rarely like each other, so he got in touch with his Chief of spies. The Chief arrange a meeting with the seven best thieves.
Although the crimes committed in the city were few, thieves still existed, even though the thieves of Tyr Faerath were more civilized and calm than most thieves. Murder happened only once every ten years.
The seven of them were sent out to find the Soul with the promise that they would be richly awarded. They all went in different direction at first.
I'm still not quite convinced about the thief part simply because you state yourself that there are rarely any crimes in Tyr Faerath, would these thieves be really seen as someone capable of bringing it back not just as some petty street thugs who are too stupid to work at a legal job?

Thirteen days later the Hthom heard that the first hade come back. Apparently he had given up. He also said he had seen two of the others fall when fighting Chyrakisth warriors and he had heard that two more had given up and were now settled in Kormendale. [Could the thieves just give up and retun without risking their neck? I find the reference to Kormendale a bit too specific, given that these thieves probably wanted to hide from any pursuers. Maybe just state they fled eastward?
That left two to hope for and still the council and the Hthom were the only ones who knew about the theft.
One of the returned on the very last day of the month. He was coming from the east and sand and dust covered him from top to toe. His eyes were damaged from the bright sun and he limped due to a cut in his leg. But he had the Morongetyr with him, rapped up in an old piece of cloth. He fell to his knees as he entered the Main Gate and had to be carried home by his friends.
no mentioning about the Kavogerim who took it?

The Soul was taken back to its vault when the council spread the word that the Soul had been lost but that The Searcher Dolo Groilin, son of a thief, had brought it back. When the council went to the thief’s home to give him his reward he had died from the infection in his leg.

The funeral was the most impressive in the history of the town. Every dwarf came to witness the procession as they took the dead body of Dolo to the vault were he was laid to rest with the Soul of the City. The city he saved at the cost his life.

Myth/Lore

The Kiingerim believe that their God, TyrHthom, created the jewel as a token of his protection and love for the tribe.
They say that he forged the stone under supervision of Trum-Baroll in the forges of Trum Dispor’Baroll.
Tyr Hthom, The Head of the City, is the god of the Kiingerim and the protector of the tribe. He is the brother of Hunyeh Hthom, Head of the Mine that is the protector of Kavogerim and before that the Toltrumerim. They trained with Trum-Baroll as apprentices.

Tyr Hthom also poured his protection, his love for the dwarves, into the stone. As he was not a strong god, his strength would only last as long as the stone would rest inside the walls of the city. If taken outside of those the powers would only last one month. After that the tribe would begin to diminish.

When Menemronn, the dark wizard in the times of the War of the Chosen, started his attack on the dwarves, crushing them inside the towns and mines, he first stole the stone to use it in his throne.

When Menemronn later fell the elves took all the lightstones to the Emerald Forest. They believed the stone could do good things. They were wrong. The stone only led to mistrust, crimes and war. This part more mythical and vague?


The history and myths part could need some more fleshing out I suppose because everything is  not very elaborated in describing the events that took place. If you want me to help you with more details on the elven part I'd be glad to help. I can flesh out my ideas of the lves then , too. I hope this helps a bit!



Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 7/28/04 11:40


Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 29 July 2004, 14:40:00
Koldar. With all of my heart! HELP with the elven parts. I don't get those thin-eared, tall and arrogant (oops, the last thing was from my dwarven heart) elves.

I can use all the help I get.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 29 July 2004, 15:05:00
Victhorin son of smith Vartorin Norilin, you are lucky that the elven mistresses- Wren, Viresse and Rayne for the most part - aren't around.



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Bard Judith on 30 July 2004, 00:38:00
Ah, but us well-travelled, cosmopolitan Compendium writers can overlook our ethnic heritage, or at least set it aside long enough to appreciate other cultures and races of Caelereth!

As a human bard who hangs out with dwarves much of the time, Judith has to confess that she sometimes finds her own race rather flighty and superficial when compared with Thergerim patience and perspective...  

@ Koldar: Thank you so much for taking the time to look this over in such detail!  I wouldn't have had all the background and history even if I had had the time to comment... and it looks the stronger for the discussion.



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Victhorin on 03 August 2004, 00:45:00
Koldar: I have two questions before I start writing again:

1) When was the elven cilvil war?

2) What do you mean "tense up between them"?

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Koldar Mondrakken on 04 August 2004, 03:43:00
1) The civil war will be started somewhere before 3200 b.S.(Fall of the Korweynites, the only allies of the Kaýr)  and rage for centuries. Maybe make it somewhere around 2800-2900 b.S. when the elves are exhausted and it is apparent that they won't reunite. Maybe it is even one of the Ifer'hem Lords that tips your dwarves anticipating that it will cause trouble for the Kaýr.

2) Instead of closing trade routes the elves do not use anyway make it an aggressive exchange of demands, the dwarves want it back and rattle with their axes and the elves do not want to give it them because they behave so aggressive and they found the stone extremely dangerous.

Also make it a real campaign against the Kaýr. That the dwarves survived entering those woods show how weakened the Kaýr tuely were. Not some bloody main battle but an exchange of skirmishes between elven archers and a dwarven army marching in an armored column. When it gets clear the dwarves cannot be stopped from laying siege and possibly waste to a Kaýr city the Kaýr give in, offering a cease fire and some peace talks. In these talks the return of the stone is agreed, esspecially when the dwarves make it clear that they only want to lock this stone up in a safe place so their city will be save.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight



Title: Re: The Soul of the City
Post by: Viresse on 17 June 2005, 13:58:00
!