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46  Santharian World Development / Magic in the Lands of Caelereth / Re: Life Magic Rewrite on: 02 May 2010, 21:06:18
Hey Judy!  *hugs back forcefully*  How are you these days?

Unfortunately I wouldn't say back......just want to finish off and round up some things :)

47  Santharian World Development / Magic in the Lands of Caelereth / Re: Life Magic Rewrite on: 02 May 2010, 17:46:04
Yay!  Thankyou Fox, + aura for you :)  (and to Azhira too for poking in my absence!)

I've got a few corrections I wrote whilst on the way back from visiting Irid too, nothing big, just rephrasing for clarity.  I'm adding them all in now, so hopefully we can get this thing up soon.
48  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Re: Here be Brownies! (Maps of Brownie Settlements) on: 02 May 2010, 17:30:31
Done!
49  Organization and General Discussions / Non-Santharian Stuff: Life, the Universe & Everything / Re: Strange Board - or is it just my comp? on: 30 April 2010, 03:52:20
It's not just your comp, I've had that many times.  Sometimes it leads to interesting entries....

But if you do an "Advanced Search" you can put in a time limit too.  I think.  Gonna go check that now!

Edit: Yes you can :)
50  Organization and General Discussions / Bell-Ringing - Notifications to Developers / Re: Rookie! on: 27 January 2010, 21:27:58
Haha!  Ok, will be there asap.  Possibly tonight or tomorrow night!
51  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Santharian version of flint? on: 09 January 2010, 18:40:58
What did people use for cutting edges before they learnt to smelt metal?  Basically I'm asking because the Llaoihrr don't use much metal, and don't smelt it themselves anyway, they trade it from their dwarven neighbours.  But I'm a bit lost as to what they could use instead.  I suppose I could say they use life magic to make wood really hard and dense so that it can be formed into a cutting edge....but they haven't always had life magic technology so it seems logical that they'd use something else instead.
52  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Re: The Harsh Years - What actually happened? on: 09 January 2010, 18:33:39
*pokes her fellow brownie-developers with a big stick*

Come on, I'm just talking to myself here!  (Which, for the record, I don't do in real life....whatever my work colleagues tell you....)
53  Santharian World Development / Magic in the Lands of Caelereth / Re: Ximax Academy - Working Draft II on: 04 January 2010, 17:25:12
Oops, I'd kind of forgotten about my sentence.  Why don't we just keep it nice and vague:

"The twelfth floor has always been set aside to house a couple of visiting clerics of the Avarian Faith.  Not only do these guests lecture on clerical magic, they also provide a source of support and guidance for students of their belief."

From that, people can probably guess that any other clerics would be fairly welcome too, it's just that this is the most commonly practised religion, so Ximax gets very regular visits.
54  Organization and General Discussions / Discussions, Development Ideas & Proposals / Re: Book Binding Question on: 04 January 2010, 16:46:58
Here we go Valan!  *points to attachment*

Delivery of the Brownie Points you ordered has been completed, Mister Sanash, sign here please  read
55  Santharian World Development / Miscellaneous / Re: The Fungus Clock of the Darkling Brownies on: 04 January 2010, 16:43:30
Yay!
56  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Re: The Harsh Years - What actually happened? on: 31 December 2009, 00:38:49
That's a great idea Talia!

Perhaps they were blamed for a particular "southern" disease - them living in the south and F'v'cl'r being in the north?  A plague or other suitably icky infectious disease?

Oooo, maybe it could be something to do with rotting skin or pustules, which could start the thing about Brownie Sweat being good for your skin?
57  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Brownie Entry and Update Proposals on: 30 December 2009, 23:46:50
Here you can find a comprehensive list of all the Brownie-related areas that need attention, either entries that could do with an update, things that have been mentioned and need a new entry, or just vague holes in an otherwise brilliant tribe or culture.  Please post below to claim something.

Entries Needing an Update

Quick Fixes
Ethnic Groupings

More Substantial Rewrites
Brownie Tribes and Settlements
Shaman


Complicated, Larger Entries
The Brownie Race
Brownie Beliefs
History
Memnoor Brownies
Milken Brownies
Llaoihrr Brownies

Entry Proposals
(Please post if you have any proposals, or would like to reserve one.)

Bestiary

Herbarium
Rrihoorr Moss[Lit: Lightening Crop]
Search Link: The Council Tree, in the Fauna section.  But it might be easier to just quote the passage where it is mentioned:
Quote
Another persistent pest is the Styruine Round Worm.  This horrible little grub is known to attack the precious winter stores which are kept in the storage rooms under the Council Tree.  Fortunately the Brownies have discovered a simple way of getting rid of it they attract it to certain parts of the cellars with generous handfuls of rrihoorr moss, a crop which can often be found growing alongside Greenbark moss and has a strange spicy flavour.  The Brownies then collect up all the worms and eat them.  This bug seems to have a preference for this spicy plant, and can be easily rounded up for the pot.  It  goes nicely with any dark green leaves, and adds a good, slightly spicy flavour when mashed into a sauce.
Details: Spicy in flavour and mosslike, otherwise feel free to make it up. It is used as bait for Styruine Round Worms, but could be used for other things too - eaten by the Brownies, as a dye, a bedding....or pretty much anything else.


Races, Clans and Tribes
Unnamed Rat Brownie Tribe (or tribes) Living Under Milkengrad
Search Link: Mentioned briefly in the Rat Brownie Entry
Details: Definitely some Mud Rat Brownies, although could be other varieties too.

Unnamed Rat Brownie Tribe (or tribes) Living Under Nymersys
Search Link: Mentioned briefly in the Rat Brownie Entry
Details: None.  Choose a type of Rat Brownie and make up some culture in keeping with the general Rat Brownie description.

Unnamed Rat Brownie Tribe Living Under Strata
Search Link: Mentioned briefly in the Rat Brownie Entry
Details: None.  Choose a type of Rat Brownie and make up some culture in keeping with the general Rat Brownie description.

Unnamed Rat Brownie Tribe Living Under New Santhala
Search Link: Mentioned briefly in the Rat Brownie Entry
Details: Definitely some Mud Rat Brownies, although could be other varieties too.

People
Drou Birchbark
Search Link: Artificial Brownie Wings
Details: The record holder for the longest flight with Brownie Wings.  She got her record in 1659 for 24 peds, 2 fores and 5 palmspans.

Fjorek Rigvinn
Search Link: Artificial Brownie Wings
Details: The Avennorian inventor who tried to adapt the wings for human use with disastrous consequences.

RrLLee'ou Greenbark
Search Link: Artificial Brownie Wings
Details: The Llaohirr inventor and historian who managed to bring the wings back into fashion with a new, more modern design.

Tee'n Brownbark
Search Link: Artificial Brownie Wings
Details: The some-time poet and traveller who writes poems in both Tharian and Browniin.

Places

History

Cosmology, Myths and Religion

Magic

Languages and Runes
Modern Browniin for the Llaoihrr
Search Link: Old Browniin was made into a dictionary here, but we have nothing on newer versions of the language
Details: I would like to see a more user-friendly language that looks as if it could be spoken on an everyday basis.  It should be based on the Old Browniin though.

Library
Myths, tales and stories about any Brownies are always welcome.

Miscellaneous
The Everbark
Search Link: Mentioned in the Birni Brownies and Keekoo
Details: An adlemir tree that was hollowed out and infused with Life Magic in the Birni Era so that it would never decay.  It was used to store documents and scrolls, which were discovered much later by Keekoo the Deliverer.  These records gave us all the info we now have on the Kingdom of Birn, including many secrets of Life Magic and the original Brownie Spiritism.

"iheh aiehaheh" or "The Wood Soothing Device"
Search Link: Brownie Bead Industry
Details: This is a Llaoihirr gadget made from wood, is used to smoothe and sand beads in the Vale of the Brownies.  This is basically a barrel set on an axel so that it can spin pretty easily, and either powered by turning a handle, or more often by a rat which has been specially trained to walk in a treadmill. The beads are put into the barrel along with a few handfuls of sand which rubs against the wooden pieces and smoothes them. One single bead will often be put into several different barrels, each with finer and finer grades of sand.
58  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Re: The Harsh Years - What actually happened? on: 30 December 2009, 21:57:56
My contribution to the discussion :)

1) What proportion of Brownies actually made it into Keekoo's new civilisation?  And what happened to those who didn't? 
If they became Field Rat Brownies then there are a lot more of these than we previously thought, which could be quite fun to develop.  On the other hand it would mean a lot of work to find places they could be living and write stories/rumours placing them there.  If they became Aohu'o then how/why?  The Aohu'o are far nicer, more civilised, worship the spirits in a completely different way and are very accurate bowmen.  Azhira's idea of them following other races as they migrated would work quite well to disperse them.

2) When did Brownies become pets and snacks?  And why?
After all, it seems ludicrous that this happened overnight.  On the other hand the great F'v'cl'r empire has just broken down, so they'd be pretty hungry.  Perhaps the food trade came first and the pet trade followed later?  We've got 6000 years to play with, so it can be quite gradual if we want it to.

3) Why did the pet/food trade continue even when Santharians were settled and comfortable?
Tradition?  Did anyone (apart from Brownies) oppose this?

4) Do we want to have some groups who aren't in captivity?  How are they surviving?
Personally I've always assumed there were a few, and I think a few are mentioned in Keekoo's biography.  I've always assumed these were living wild though, like modern Field Rat Brownies, and not that they'd had help from other races.

5) How much of this do we want to include in the Compedium and how much should be "developer's knowledge" (i.e. we know it but no one in Caelereth does)
My feeling is that I like to get as much as I can onto the site, although we'd need to find some way of discovering this history, as it probably wouldn't have been written down at the time.
59  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / The Harsh Years - What actually happened? on: 30 December 2009, 21:56:34
(NB: Please do ask for clarification if you need it, I know this stuff can get confusing but if I tried to explain everything then the post would have been as long as a masterwork :P)

This period of Brownie history lasted from the end of the Birni Era (around 10,000 b.S.) to (apparently) 4013 b.S. although I'm not exactly sure why that year in particular.  Here's what Greybark has to say about it:

Quote
The Harsh Years
...is an endlessly terrible time for the Brownie people, in which they grow few and scattered, coming dangerously close to dying out completely. Only a very few survive, living precarious lives among many of the other races. They are viewed as vermin by all. Elves ignore them, dwarves keep them near their forges in cages as good-luck charms, orcs eat them, and humans do some of all of the above. An old recipe book should be found later that includes a recipe for Brownie pot pie that was apparently considered quite a delicacy. They fare no better among the other races, and long to be free, but are dependent on their oppressors for food and shelter, having for the most part forgotten the skills necessary for basic survival.

And, really, that's all we have about these 6,000 years!  This does make some sense, as I reckon most of the Brownie tribes were probably too busy surviving to write much down, but we as developers should at least have an idea about where they went, which Brownies survived and how/why most ended up as pets or meals.  This will give us a much better idea of what can be changed/adapted and what will have to stay in place.

Azhira made a good suggestion in the history thread, which I shall now quote:

Quote
One thing to note is that it is likely that Brownies spread by following or accompanying the various human and elven migration patterns over the years. Probably after the Great Sundering that some Brownies went with the other races as they moved everywhere. For example, I am thinking of early in the Ghostling's history, they were settled near elven lands, specifically F'v'cl'r, and migrated with the dark elves to Caaehl'heroth. They then settled with them up north in the Cartash woods and witnessed the first opening of the Deep Winds Portal and the subsequent introduction of the Mists.

I don't think all Brownies need to have been hunted and eaten. I think some races, maybe elves, liked the Brownies and considered them their friends. Or, maybe some dwarven tribes used Rat Brownies as scouts and trackers as they dug their caverns below ground. Hence, there could be many Brownies who befriended the larger folk and moved with them in order to survive.

However, I'm a bit worried that this goes against what Greybark set down in quite a few places, and whilst I'm not against adapting/expanding his ideas, I do think there are certain points of his that, if changed, would cause an amazing amount of work to reorder.  These unchangeable points are as follows:

a) Brownies were thought of as unintelligent vermin by most of the population (at least in the Sarvonian Kingdom and places closely associated with it).  If we change this then I can't see people eating them or keeping them as pets for such a long period of time.  After all, if they actually tested their intelligence then surely they'd discover that they are sentient.

b) Brownies who will become Memnoor, Akdorian, Llaoihrr or Aohu'o need to be in Manthria, either caged or living in secret so that Keekoo can free them and form his new civilisation in the Auturian Woods.  Brownies who aren't part of this will not rediscover archery, blowpipes, life magic, the Spiritism Religion i.e. they will be Rat Brownies.

c) Brownies living during the Harsh Years need to be pretty uncultured, practising a little Spiritism but basically just struggling to survive.

(Please note that these have been conveniently numbered to allow for easy discussion - i.e. feel free to disagree!)

These, however, are the questions that really need answering:

1) What proportion of Brownies actually made it into Keekoo's new civilisation?  And what happened to those who didn't?  

2) When did Brownies become pets and snacks?  And why?

3) Why did the pet/food trade continue even when Santharians were settled and comfortable?

4) Do we want to have some groups who aren't in captivity?  How do they survive?

5) How much of this do we want to include in the Compedium and how much should be "developer's knowledge" (i.e. we know it but no one in Caelereth does)
60  Santharian World Development / Brownie Development / Re: A Very Short History of the Brownie Race on: 30 December 2009, 06:19:38
Although the Harsh Years are less well-filled in than later years, I would still like to keep to what Greybark has set out.  Partly this is because I've been developing on this basis since I started already, and changing it would mean subtle changes all over the place, and partly because I just like to stick to what Greybark wrote down unless I can really see an advantage in the alternative.  After all, I don't think what he's written is particularly restrictive or limiting.

The Harsh Years have always been a time when Brownies were seen more as vermin than as sentient beings.  This is probably because all the other races have been living in F'v'cl'r and the Brownies had their own settlement, so they were an almost completely unknown creature to the other races.  People don't work out they're sentient for many thousands of years.  I'm not sure this is continued ignorance is possible if some people befriended Brownies.  Brownies and elves also don't naturally get on for some reason - whenever the travelling Brownie groups enter elven woods they always seem to clash and have to move on.  They do generally seem to get on ok with dwarves though.

Also, we need most of them to be moved to Marcogg and the surrounding area so that Keekoo can free them and make his new free Brownie civilisation in the Auturian Woods.  Being captured and sold as pets in this area seems the most probable reason for them to be there.

However, as long as we preserve the general feeling of this time (i.e. Brownies = food/vermin/pets), I don't see the harm in having a few groups of Brownies who end up being befriended by certain tribes.  I don't think we should say all elves befriended them though, as it sort of goes against what's already written.  I also agree that Brownie groups might follow migrating Bigfolk, although I'd rather it was because they wanted to steal/scavenge their food than because they were regarded as equal sentient beings.  Maybe the Ghostlings were the exception in that they did become allies, but I think if this was more common then people would realise they were sentient too quickly for the pet and food trades to be established.  

I do think we should try and flesh out this period of time though so I'll post a separate thread about it....tomorrow, I'm too sleepy now :P
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