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Author Topic: general brainstorming concerning Dragons and Magic  (Read 10818 times)
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Dala Valannia
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« Reply #15 on: 10 November 2001, 20:14:00 »

The true nature of Ava is unknown to the majority of the human race, if I remember correctly. The few human mages and wizards who know of her existence don't really or won't believe that she is the one who created the world. Hm, am I right? So anyhow, to those non-elven folks who know about Ava in a vague sense would probably consider her as an elven Goddess.  

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Capher
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« Reply #16 on: 10 November 2001, 20:43:00 »

I would see it that way Dala.

With deepest regards,Capher

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I live to but to serve my Goddess Seyella and Talon Hawke; son, heir and Wizard of the White Tower-defender of the lands and peoples of Caelereth!
Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #17 on: 12 November 2001, 10:45:00 »

Think you're right, Dala!

Capher: Any progress on the Dragon tongue, btw?

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Capher
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« Reply #18 on: 12 November 2001, 12:21:00 »

Working on it Koldar. Been busy doing the Kyranian rework. I hope you like it. Look under tribes thread.

With deepest regards,Capher

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I live to but to serve my Goddess Seyella and Talon Hawke; son, heir and Wizard of the White Tower-defender of the lands and peoples of Caelereth!
Tarquet Galbar
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« Reply #19 on: 12 November 2001, 18:51:00 »

Capher, is the thing about the Key in Chapter 5 of the Wizard in the White Tower? I might have passed over it, or read something wrong, but I didn't see it. And now for my veiws on Clerical magic. *Drum roll* First, the Clerics draw power not from the Xeau or any element, but straight from their God. This means their belief must be steadfast, because if there is even a little bit of doubt, the God or Goddess would not favor them with the ability to perform Clerical magics. Second, and someone may have already mentioned this, Blessing and Cursing would work only when the God or Goddess believed it suited the occasion. Ex: A human cleric wishes to curse an orc who just killed a fellow cleric, the God decides that it is just, and curses the orc. -OR- A human cleric wishes to curse an orc who is just sitting peacefully in an inn, drinking some ale. The God decides this would be unjust and does not give the Cleric the power. Now, not all Gods or Goddesses would care if it was just or not, but if they get a bad reputation by doing frivolous Cursing or Blessing then some might rise up and destroy all of their Clerics.
This is compared to mages, who draw their power from the Xeau, a certain element, a world, etc. Ex: A mage draws power from the water to cast a spell. No matter what he's casting the spell on or for what reason he gets the magic. If he wants to drown an old lady just for fun, then he can. Or, if he wants to put out a fire to save an orphanage, he can.
Just thought I'd put in my two cents.

"Shut It!"-Ancient Illinoisian Saying

Edited by: Tarquet Galbar at: 11/12/01 3:25:44 am
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Capher
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« Reply #20 on: 12 November 2001, 22:00:00 »

Tarquet the key to Wizard of the White Tower is that he is taught "Dragon Tongue and Runes" by Capher. According to all magicians, wizards, ect the most powerful of magic, because it always was/is. I suppose by telling this I'm taking some of the story away, but you seem to so much desire the knowledge. Dragons, those who are named, don't even have a word for magic for to them it is natural for them to do what they do. As natural as for us to eat or sleep. If you understand this concept you will understand how dragons look at their world. And how they despise or do not understand human magic, just like the elves have little like for non-elven magic. The main reason for this is because human's subvert the true powers, meaning, and uses for magic.

At least that is how I am interpreting it in my story.

With deepest regards,Capher

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I live to but to serve my Goddess Seyella and Talon Hawke; son, heir and Wizard of the White Tower-defender of the lands and peoples of Caelereth!
Elienta
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« Reply #21 on: 12 November 2001, 22:27:00 »

How exactly IS the magic explained in Santharia? Is it divided into classes according to purposes or elements or races?

Life is a dream from which we all must wake.

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Tarquet Galbar
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« Reply #22 on: 12 November 2001, 23:12:00 »

You know, I've asked this question to myself several times, and the most explained it's gotten that I've seen is the Seven School of Brownie Magic. It seems people are somewhat hesitant to make an explanation, maybe because I's already there somewhere. Personally, I can't find anything, except for some magical weapons, the fact that Ximax is the city of mages for humans, the Brownie magic, and Xarl's yet unfinished magic thread. So, I'm gonna go out on a limb, and actually try to make an explanation here in this post. Here it goes.

Each of the [sentient] species on Sorren is naturally inclined toward a certain magic. Ever since the Gods and Goddesses allowed the inhabitants to use the magical power which they'd been granted, each one practiced a certain type according to their needs and beliefs. They are as follows.

Elves: The Elves, those closest to Ava of them all, draw power from the Xeau. The lifeforce and power of the planet itself. They used it to heal and to defend, very rarely as an offensive weapon.

Humans: Always wanting power and profit, the humans turned to the elements. Using fire as a weapon against others, water as a healing force, wind as a means of transportation, and earth for defense, they rose in power and in numbers. Of course each element had it's own weaponry, but those are what they were mainly used for.

Brownies: Seeing what humans could do, they took the elements the humans had and expanded on them, creating the Seven School of Magic.

Orcs/Goblins: These twisted jokes of races saw magic was indeed an excellent weapon and decided they would use it themselves. But their magic was different, distorted, twisted, warped. They drew magical power form their emotions, using their anger and hate to create destruction. Used their sympathy and sadness to create healing forces. Used their need and want to summon powerful creatures.

Dragons: Magic is their air, their food, their blood. IT is so natural to them that they need not define it, as definition gives limitation, and their power is unlimited. Rivaling even the Gods in magical power, they hate the ways the 'lower species' use magic like a slave. Without even a word for it they could destroy all of Ximax with a single utterance.

Now, as time went on, magic began to change and distort into different branches, especially among humans.

Necromancy: Humans who were able to draw power from water and heal soon found they could twist the power and preserve life with unlife. Create undead creatures and summon demons to do their work. An incarnation of all that is evil, Necromancers are still very powerful, and should be feared.

Mentalists: All those who found they could perform the type of magic that their people were inclined to with only their mind. This made it appear that they were not truly performing magic, but actually using only their minds. (( I think this would be better, as Psionics and Psionicists are D&D things, and this would help avoid confusion.))

Black Xeau: Leave it to the dark elves to pervert even the Xeau. Using it for such things as summoning the Mystrans and other dark deeds, it is like an Elven form of Necromancy. Watch out for any dark elf who uses the Black Xeau, for it could mean a new begining that will make you pray for an end.

Conjuration/Summoning: Humans, always impatient to win a battle or do a task, came up with the idea of creating new creatures from an element. Summoning up hulking beasts of earth to move black of marble, or walking blazes to wipe out an enemy battle, was ideal for their case. So it wasn't long until some discovered a way to do this. Creatings the ever popular, among humans, Conjurer.

Illusionists: Fairs. Loved by all cultures. Good food, good drink, and the best entertainment. A circus, maybe a theatre troupe, and always street entertainers. Of course, if a mage were at a fair and saw a 'magician' in colorful robes pulling scarves from his sleeves or coins from childrens' ears he was scoff and call the man a fake. This maybe be why, at some time or another, the practice of creating illusions by magic came to be. Translucent dragons swooping through the air, breathing imaginary fire, and all sorts of fanciful things. But, despite it's innocent start, illusions found their way into battle as distractions for the enemy. Seeing it's use both as a battle tool and a way to make money this became very common among most species. Even some elves started using illusions as a form of entertainment at festivals and such, but not for profit, just fun.

Xarl, that sounds a bit much like Clerical magic. Not everyone can have everything, and there can't be a type of magic for everything. We should just leave the manipulation of light and such to good clerics and Elves(except the dark ones). Just my opinion. Any objections/suggestions/etc?
Oh, and some may notice that there are no 'Mage' or 'Wizard' and the such descriptions, that's because I regard these more as terms than actual types of magic. There can deffinately be objections, but it makes it a lot less confusing.
Mage: Magic-user, basic training, not powerful enough to be considered Magus.
Magus: Magic-user, basic training, very powerful, usually old and well studied.
Wizard: Magic-user, no training, picked things up on the way and starting to gain power.
Sorcerer: Magic-user, no training, picked up things on the way, very powerful, has been around awhile.
Magician: Not a magic-user, fakes it by slight-of-hand and other such tactics.
Note: There is already an entry on Magus, I just shortened it a lot and dumbed it down a bit.

How's that?

((And Faugar, I hope you found hte Illusionist description a bit less dull. ;)   ))

"Shut It!"-Ancient Illinoisian Saying

Edited by: Tarquet Galbar at: 11/13/01 7:26:26 pm
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Xarl
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« Reply #23 on: 13 November 2001, 21:50:00 »

Going out on a limb here... (yes, yes, lousy pun)
As seems to have always been said by someone: There can be no darkness without light, and as such there can be no darker magicks without...
Light Magi: Those more righteous humans who drew on Flame gradually discovered the power of flame to cleanse, and thus light magic was born. This works by using the mostly untapped radiant arcanae to weild bolts of lightning to attack, siphon off enemy magic to fuel their own, and even at the highest levels summon radiant beings of energy from the very non-substance of the Void.
Note that this is not the magic practiced by Elves, as they view even light as being "tainted" by human casters and methods. Not that they won't steal a few tricks from 'em, but they publicly renounce the human light magic as a perversion of the Dream of Dreams.

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Dala Valannia
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« Reply #24 on: 14 November 2001, 01:43:00 »

I like Tarquet's explanation of magic so far. It's coherent, it's covers a wide area clearly and succinctly. Best of all, I actually understand what he means!! :D  Mebbe it's a little oversimplified for some but hey, that's a good thing! Why make things more complicated than they already are? ;)  

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Faugar
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« Reply #25 on: 14 November 2001, 03:40:00 »

to make them more interesting or less dull ;)  

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #26 on: 14 November 2001, 15:34:00 »

I think the race specific magic is well explained that way.
Orcs/Goblins: Their magic is rude. It is practical, it has to work! They would not wait for days to create something but prefer spells that have a instantinous effect. That includes healing as well as destruction.(BTW:D on't dare to offend these races again! ;)  Twisted jokes? You have no idea! :lol )

I only have problems with your different ways of magic as Mentalist and somesuch.
I think Necromancy, Summoning, Mentalist,... are only fields of magic. Eventually a mage digs deep into one of them but usually he would know other spells as well.
I'd split it up more this way:
-Magic of the will(illusions, mentalist things, incluencing others)
-Magic of the elements (including necromancy)
-Magic of the Xeua(manipulating the Dream himself. I think summoning demons and similar might fit in here as well as healing magic)

I wouldn't distinct between good and bad magic. Necromancy is the bad way of Earth bound magic and others and so on. So any mage can become good or bad.

BTW: I only use the term mage. Beside magician anything is IMO analouge to it.

Yes, I know I start to stress! ;)

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Tarquet Galbar
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« Reply #27 on: 14 November 2001, 16:36:00 »

Everything after the races are just variations of the racial magics, Koldar. They could be called specialities, but with humans they would more specialize in a different element, and these are just branches of those different things. And as for a difference between good and bad magic... Well, show me a good necromancer. All I'm saying is that Necromancy was -started- by an evil mage, and since he was evil, he twisted it and made it evil. So, all who use Necromancy are using the power he created to be evil, and so they become slowly tainted by that evil.
As for dividing them further, I don't really think it's needed. If there is ever a compendium entry put up on magic, then the ones each race use can be listed under their race, then explained after the races' magic are explained, or maybe as links to seperate entries, or some such.

"Shut It!"-Ancient Illinoisian Saying

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #28 on: 14 November 2001, 16:52:00 »

Still need to read more hear, but some few explanatory words:

I guess all races can cast different elemental magic (elves can cast fire and water magic),  but they have a natural affinity to their element of course. Elves e.g. can cast Wind spells more easily than humans can. Orcish shamans (of course they exist, I'm thinking of warcraft-like orcs) can cast powerful fire magic, but they'd have major difficulties casting a mind reading (Wind) spell - but they could if they'd be trained. Dwarves will mainly focus on enhancing weapons with their spells, but wouldn't really see any use in Wind spells e.g.

Some comments on the Gods:

Coór: Unlike Avá who withdrew from the world, Coór didn't withdraw from the world. Coór is[/i] the world. Avá fled from the world, from Coór. That's why people are doomed to fight etc. Unlike Avá Coór is no "spirit". It is a physically existing god, who is immortal, though - his destruction would also be the end of the dream of Avá. This will be a central scene in the last book of the Avaesthoría. Coór will be spared from destruction, although he will beg for it in order to destroy the universe - his ultimate goal.

Avá is an elven goddess only. Coór is worshipped only as a 13th god by a few humans (special religious community) as a secret god. The number 13 therefore is cursed, because it is the number of C

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
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« Reply #29 on: 14 November 2001, 17:23:00 »

I agree with Artimidor on that subject of magic. You guy really now what you are doing. I feel so inferior to you all.I guess I really need to study the history more.

But I have to state that i do believe that Necromancy can be weilded by non-evil people. I don't believe that if you weild Necromancy you will not be over come with this evil. For one who is of a true heart could conquer this power if need be.

Never know the character could turn good....

Uni

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