* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Magical Canon II: The Categories  (Read 3720 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« on: 13 March 2002, 17:34:00 »

I'm trying to make a start now with the Magical Categories - we should try to finish this part of Magic pretty soon so that we can move on to the spell classes and then first example spells. If we get that far, designing of lots of other spells according to one elaborated scheme shouldn't be that difficult anymore.

Ok, here we go...

1. Clerical Magic

First some general words about "religious magic", which I've discussed already a bit in other threads. "Clerical magic" will be #8 of our magical categories, which I'll add to the entry in Magic. It's a meta-way of casting magic I'd say, similar to Weaving maybe, but not exactly.

All kinds of magic deal with elements, either directly (by shifting proportions: Fire, Earth, Wind and Earth Magic), or by connecting or dis-connecting links between the elements (Xeuá and Ecuá Magic), or by manipulating the form, the pattern of things directly.

Clerical Magic is a meta-way of casting magic, an indirect way and its energy if belief. I still need to find a better word for it in styrásh, but I would give this word two meanings, an active one (see Star Wars: Be the "force"="blessing" with you) and a passive one ("humility"). There are two explanations for clerical magic:

a) It's magic given to priests by the gods.
b) It's explainable.

If a) is accepted everything is fine. Nobody needs to ask. If you believe in a God and this God gives you a spell to use - okeydokey.

We will have to try to work out b). The explanation works this way: "Belief" affects the elements and the Xeuás. Not directly, but by influencing an element in a focussed way, but in modifiying the pre-conditions for the existence/combinations of certain elements/Xeuas so that the unreal becomes reality because the conditions changed. You don't concentrate on achieving something special with your mind, but affect your whole surroundings so that certain things become possible.

An easy example of belief: Sometimes people think so hard about something that they forget everything else and it becomes reality for them, simply because they have reached this state of conciousness by denying other things which influence their apperception. You might think that e.g. you visually see an apple if you meditate and deny other realities. The apple will then appear, not mainly because you focussed all your thoughts on the apple, but because you keep everything disturbing about the apple's viusal appearance away.

In a fantasy world this will not only affect yourself. Your belief can affect others as well, e.g. if you cast a healing spell - if your "victim" believes in the healing spell, he/she will be healed. If you want to heal a pagan the spell will have much lesser effect. Things usually can't negatively influence the "force" of belief. Or you could say this way: You either (re-)order the cár'álls through your belief or send vibrations through your surroundings which shake the elements and the Xeuás. If you're good at this you will be able to achieve certain results you desire as if you would focus. As Koldar mentioned somewhere: Spells of clerics therefore are much more difficult to cast and will take a much longer time than other spells, which are focussed (Weaving is also very focussed).

That's it so far. Let me know if this concept sounds workable from your point of view.


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 3/12/02 11:34:59 pm
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Tarquet Galbar
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: leet



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 13 March 2002, 18:01:00 »

Wouldn't it be a bit confusing to put Clerical magic as part of the Aura? I understand that all magic affects the same energies and just in different ways, but I think this might get some people mixed up.

I would propose that we keep Clerical and Wizardly magic seperate, giving Clerical magic it's own entry (the interpretations of the elemental energies through gods and such) but still mention that it too affects the energy of things, but in a different way.

Tarquet Galbar,
BeastMaster Of Santharia
Creator of Weavers
Chronicler of the Rahaz-Dath Mercenaries

Logged
Greybark
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 1.736


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: 14 March 2002, 12:38:00 »

Sounds good, I think. I would only change one thing:
"If you want to heal a pagan the spell will have much lesser effect."
to
"If you want to heal a pagan the spell will often have a much lesser effect."
This would leave more options open.  


Brownie Expert

Logged
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #3 on: 14 March 2002, 16:19:00 »

I don't see it this way, Tarquet. We have an entry called "Magic of Sorren" on the site. And you will find all kinds of magic there, including clerical magic, of course. In fact we have three completely different kinds of magic, which work completely different: Elemental magic (including Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Xeuá and Ecuá magic), Weaving and Clerical Magic. Elemental Mages can't weave. Weavers can't do elemental spells, neither do Clerics. Everything affects the Cár'áll, always in completely different ways.

The Magic entry tells us how the different kinds of magics work and why they can't be deduced from each other. The Categories will concentrate on elaborating what you can do with these different kinds of magic. And of course every kind of magic gets its own entry in the end.

All three kinds of magic have their own spells. They might produce similar results, but are own spells and shouldn't be mixed up.

BTW: It's pretty easy to explain why a cleric can't be a true mage and the other way round. Either you have faith or you have not. If you have a lot of faith you are a cleric and you will find focussing energies completely unnecessary, because you have full trust in the universe and the deities reigning it that you don't need to focus. Clerical magic contradicts typical wizardry, just as belief contradicts the intention of proving the belief.


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #4 on: 14 March 2002, 16:39:00 »

Ok, collecting more attributes in order to define spell categories. Please add as many as you can. They will be essential for defining Spell Classes as well:

FIRE = desire, longing, power, will, destruction, light, warmth+heat, lust

WATER = ambiguity, instability, change, force/pressure, relief

EARTH = stability, endurance, strength, cover, protection/shelter

WIND = spirit, idea, peace, healing, tranquility, influence, word/language

XEUÁ = connecting, enhance, improve

ECUÁ = breaking, dividing, loosening

WEAVING = defined by the will of the caster

CLERICAL MAGIC = defined by the God/Goddess


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 3/13/02 10:40:11 pm
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #5 on: 14 March 2002, 22:36:00 »

Some of these words  will be very abstract ; Earth, for example,  has 'chest & heart' associated with it.  However, when one thinks of the steady, reassuring pulse of a heart beat, and the solid, protective cage of the chest around it, the affiliation of these body parts with Earth seems much more direct.  

Other associations should seem obvious with a little thought - for example, 'draining' connected to Water .

This might mean in practical applications that a dehydrated mage could lay his hand on a nearby tree and cause its cells to release H2O directly into his body - while 'trickle' might be the ability to control and filter one's power in a very minute, consistent rate of flow - useful for sustaining long-term, low-power spells like disguises, say.  

Hope this is what you are looking for, Artimidor!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FIRE =  consumption, passion, anger, aggression, revelation, exposure, offense, adolescence, eating, gold, loins & mouth

WATER =  draining, trickle, replenishment, youth, drinking, persistence, concealment, silver, eye & belly

EARTH =  compaction, defense, history, middle age, sleeping, rhythm, comfort, copper, chest & heart

WIND =  motion, investigation, uprooting, old age, waking, song, mithril, nose & lungs

XEU?=  bond, relationship, hands, symphony, chord, harmony, blood, link

ECU?=  scream, dissonance, crack, scissors, solo, open space, urine, tantrum, grey,

WEAVING =  organize, pattern, focus, shape, distort,  pull, repetition, lute,  colourful, mind

CLERICAL MAGIC =  integrity, intention, devoutness, ability, passion/compassion, symbolic, soul

Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Tarquet Galbar
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: leet



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: 15 March 2002, 09:01:00 »

I'm gonna take these descriptive words and rearrange the magical catergories accordingly. That is, when I get home where I can edit it.

Logged
Silfer Darkflare
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2.477



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: 15 March 2002, 16:35:00 »

Hm, about the Clerics:

Why not take it this way:

The cleric belives that hois god/goddes give him power that he gains the power. Can this be good explanation?

Also, the elements can be ararnged like this too:

Fire-offensive

Water-neutral

Earth-defensive

Wind-neutral


Wind and water are both used in boith offense and defnce in equal powers.

And can we use lightning as an element?

Silfer Darkflare
Master of the Lightning, The Santharian Annoyer and Reminder.
What is goos and what is evil depends on which side of the coin you see.

Logged

Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #8 on: 15 March 2002, 17:07:00 »

No lightning please, Silfer, as an element. Doesn't fit to the general scheme.

Elements: Concept is ok, except for wind: Wind is not neutral, it is creating. See Cárpa'dosía: Wind creates (free and floating), earth is the counterpart (steady, unmoving). Fire is described in the (german) Chapter 2 as "will of the earth to become wind" and Water as the "will of the wind to become earth".

I knew our Bard would be the right person to come up with some good attributes! This list is very helpful in order to develop the Spell Categories further.

To Tarquet: If you want to work on the Categories rewrite, you can, but it should indeed be a rewrite and an expansion to what we've already made up in the general Magic entry.

Which means:

- Proper explanation of Weaver Magic (currently we treat Weaver and Resonance magic as two different things, which they aren't. So please try to correct that.
- Xeuá Magic is also somewhat contradictory to the Magic entry. Life Magic will become a Spell Class of Xeuá Magic.
- The attributes we have should all be worked into the descriptions of the categories. The descriptions of the categories should be much more detailed.
- Some example Spell Classes and example spells should be added to each category. The Classes of course are still a matter of discussion: We'll have to go through the whole list and try to assign them to the Categories.

Color scheme: Is something I would give some more thought. Weaving and Clerical Magic are completely different kinds of magic, therefore I don't intend to include them in a typical color scheme. You also can't really mix them with elemental magic. If we work out the spells I'd propose to design symbols for the spells, red background for fire spells, blue for water, brown for earth spells etc. Still prefer white for wind. Xeuá could be grey perhaps, Ecuá black. As for Weaving and Clerical Spells: I would mark them differently, e.g. the Clerical ones could glow (Photoshop filter on it) and Weaving spells could also have a special filter on them so that you can identfify them.

If you don't have that much time to work on all these things till Sunday, Tarquet, I'll do it myself, cause I want to finish the basics asap. Please let me know!

Next week we will move to the Spell Classes and finally I'll try to make a first example spell description (perhaps plus sign already). Then whoever wants can work on adding more and more spells to our Spellbooks in the course of time.

I'd also like to to a diagram sooner or later for the Magic entry to explain some more things.

BTW: We'd need symbols for the elements... Would this perhaps be something for you, Koldar, as you have most experience with drawing banners and symbols?


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 3/14/02 11:14:30 pm
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: 15 March 2002, 17:19:00 »

Just wanted to post that you know I've read it and gave it some thought. I agree on the clerical thing, etc. but haven't the time to look through my concept if/what has to be changed. Will do tomorrow or Saturday.

If you want to have a look yourself it is under "priests and clerics" in cosmology section.

Proposal for color sheme including Clerical and Weaving is to use metal colors for them. The elements have pure colors, Clerical gold, Xeuá silver, Ecuá iron/obsidian, Weaving maybe something crystal-like.
It would take more than one Photoshop filter though...

And what are these Spell classes in the end all about?

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster ;)--

Logged
Tarquet Galbar
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: leet



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: 15 March 2002, 19:30:00 »

Uh, actually I doubt I'll have time for all that. I'm helping out at a christian camp this weekend. So I'll leave it to you Art.

But one thing: I never meant for Weaver and Resonance magic to be different things. Resonance magic is just the word that mages other than Weavers called the magic, when the secret was let out lon glong ago. But few know of it now. Of course, there is also the Old Weaver belief that something touched by Weaver magic gave off a Resonance.

Tarquet Galbar,
BeastMaster Of Santharia
Creator of Weavers
Chronicler of the Rahaz-Dath Mercenaries

Logged
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: 17 March 2002, 08:54:00 »

I went through my first draft about the clerical magic and want you toi have a closer look. Luckily I described it similar to what you want, Art, or at least I understand it in a similar way!
Nevertheless I would appreciate it when you (all) could go esspecially through the highlighted parts of the text as they seem to concern the things described by Art above.

Read!! This is a first draft and I know that the parts are not fitting to each other and are not complete! But I need to know how far off I'm from the truth before I can rework it properly!


All italics are notes or explanations that most possibly don't fit into the entry the way they're written here. Have a closer look on them, please!

Clerical magic:

The priests and clerics can summon similar forces like mages do, however their powers derive from their religious, occult or plainly pagan beliefs and studies about the world. Other than mages who activates a pool of power within his own deepest mind the priests as well as the clerics unleash the powers that surrounds them. To a great degree this powers are based on the elements themselves similar to the general factions of magic but as the source of powers are much bigger the results can be far more devastating and difficult to control.

Basics:
Other than mages who can influence the obvious Cár'áll - the dominant element of an object- to their advantage clerics can "wake" hidden aspects of the Cár'áll in the objects (even a stone can burn) and focus the powers for a certain purpose.


The Cár'áll of most objects is a more or less stable balance of all elements with only one or two of them being stronger than others. The different properties of burning materials can be explained by this fact as well as the difference between ice and seawater.
Even what is often referred to as the purest forms of an element(water, fire, earth and wind) found in the world of Avá is in fact still a mix of all elements only that the elements that can't be recognized on the first glance are in balance to each other.


Waking these powers sleeping in all objects and creatures of the Áer'aí'chán is a difficult and dangerous task esspecially for a sole person. While being unable to activate these powers at all is rather harmless, being unable to control the amount of power you activate can instantinously kill you as the process of focussing the powers at all is already quite harmful.

For this reason most clerical spells are bound into strict rituals to protect the priests as good as possible and provide a source of power that is easy to access.

example: The priests of Armeros are able to do powerful fire spells, however their spells need long times of preparation. A great source of burnable material is prepared to provide them with an easy to access source of the element fire.
However, the biggest problem is to contain the energy from these spells to prevent the priests from getting burnt and killed.
Other priests look for special locations to cast their spells which provides already much of their primarily element in one or the other form.


Also, to reduce the stress and damage to one particular priest the rituals often split up the spell into multiple tasks that are then done by several priests. For the most powerful spells it is even necessary to exchange the priests in the process of its creation as one wouldn't be able to control the forces over a long period of time.

Faith:
The religion behind all clerical magic is often an important instrument to help to control the powers. In most rituals the priests bring themselves into a state of meditation or extacy what they believe brings them closer to the gods and make them guide them through the ritual.
An important factor in casting a spell successfully. Also, though not totally confirmed, often the belief of even common people is helpful for a priesthood to fullify difficult duties because though there's no obvious change in the surroundings even the most simple-minded creatures are able to influence the Cár'áll in a subtile way that helps controlling the powers.




So, any bad mistakes? Esspecially my interpretation of the elements (this seawater and burning rock thing) need IMO verification if interpreted right.

Any other flaws or errors, point them out! :)

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster ;)--

Logged
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144586
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 26
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 21
Total: 21

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx