BoneCrafting(lvl. 6)

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[Viresse]

No, not you, Dasson. You remind me of a very tame Tarq.

I just feel as if this piece has been pounced upon like a taenish by two bored Ximax cats- that Rayne and Silfer wasted no time in tearing my entry to shreds.

I feel it's best if I seperate the Enrty from Myself, to avoid my assumption of further attacks. So.
Give me a few days. Let me mull the entry over (as I wrote it just before I fell asleep) and then I will get back to it.

*pokey de Viresse at viresse@santharia.com* - Adventures of Caelereth Administrator
The Santharian Dream - Home sweet Home...

[Silfer Darkflare]

Sorry, sorry sorry.... did not mean any insults and stuff, but maybe I should have used my head a little more. Forgive me, Vir dear?

However, getting angry and frustrated won't get you anyhwere... in fact, the only thing with this spelll that i referred to as horrible, was the layout... reagent in fomulas, enhancing measures in reagents... but i don't wanna make you angry. And tearing entries to shreds with comments is my style, i guess.... but I NEVER, not once make comments just to do so. And none of my comments are mandatory-if you disagree with some of them, say so, and we'll have a discussion on it...

On the Animate dead: That one raises creatures form a corpse, and the corpse has to be near the caster, not buried. So your spell is not the same, and as i said: making things from bones by a spell is a good idea.  

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 5/8/03 10:40:40 am

[Tarquet Galbar]

In this spell, the verb isn't what matters. That's all. The fact that it deals with bones is what classifies it, not what it does. Why? Because it deals -exclusively- with bones. Sure, maybe the same spell could be used to get rocks from the ground, except then it wouldn't be necromancy, and it's necromancy because it's only bones. In this case, it is the subject which classifies it, not the action.

Rayne, you really are being two hard on this. Bonecrafting is -exactly- the sort of thing a Necromancer would do. It's in character for them, so to speak. The reason the bones come to the Necromancer is because the Necromancer and the bones share something in common: They both have Necromantic energies, the Necromancer from magic use, the bones from being what they are. That connection is what makes it possible. Not because of the air or the earth exclusively, but because of Necromancy, which is subsequently part of Earth magic.

I really can't make any more clear of an explanation than that.

[Rayne (Alýr)]

I just differ in opinion. Just wait and let Arti see it, ok?

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

[Viresse]

I don't know if we need to bring Arti in on this.
Rayne, You and Silfer are Arti's representatives in the magic field. He chose you as Magic Mods becuase you were good at making spells and have a high knowledge of magic.

Dragging Arti in will only cause him strain; he's doing the Nepris Project, maintaining the Web Site,  working with Jeff AND has a full-time job.

Besides, I don't think this is a huge deal- we can surely fix this on our own.

Oh, and Silfer... apology accepted.
I'm also sorry for being snippety- it's finals and to be honest- the past week I've been kind of nasty. Relieved my tensions by breaking a few things- I feel better now. So!
I hope I'll not be surly.

*pokey de Viresse at viresse@santharia.com* - Adventures of Caelereth Administrator
The Santharian Dream - Home sweet Home...

[Tarquet Galbar]

No real point arguing with Rayne, Vir. Dasson has just as much power as she does, being a mod here as well, and he says it's fine as Necromancy. Personally, and no offense meant to you Rayne, I also trust Dasson a bit more, considering I talked with him at times about the Magic system before I even left. Considering there would be no other sensible place to put it, just let that go. It's Necromancy, period.

There is a valid point that maybe it should be two spells. Something like "Raise Bones", maybe, and then "Bonecrafting". Or, instead of having it include the bringing of the bones, you could just make bones a reagent for Bonecrafting or somesuch.

[Silfer Darkflare]

Well, making bones come to you is possible, but for me it sounds odd. So my POV on this:

I agree that we should split this into two spells, as Tarq said.

Also, i agree that this is characteristic for necromancy, so it sohuld be necromancy... It could have been Construction, but i think necromancy fits better.

And btw, Vir: I aint a mod, just floating around this forum. And good that this didnt evolve into a conflict.

[Rayne (Alýr)]

::sighs;:

You're more of a mod than I am, Silpher. My word means nothing. In this forum, at least.

[Fox]

... otherwise we wouldn't acknowledge it!

Anyways... I see where you're coming from about the whole verb thing, and the moving of the earth to get the bones to the caster, and in that aspect I believe I was wrong. It wouldn't be the earth moving to bring the bones to the caster... that would not be necromancy, because that method would be able to be used for anything, as you've said.

So, I've taken a look at your definition of necromancy, aka what we called "Thanatosis", to see if we can compromise something.

Quote:Spell Class 3: Physical Representation: Thanatosis
Spells that deal with manipulating a body of a dead person or creature and bringing them into unnatural animation; the creation of zombies and other such creatures by controlling the body of a deceased creature.

Now, if, say, the summoning bones spell, rather than causing the earth to move the bones towards the caster, instead brought the bones into "unnatural animation", and causing them to crawl, dig, maybe float or something, to the caster, that would be considered necromancy, no? Although the necromancy class would actually be considered both thanatosis and phasmalogy.

If we did the other method, the moving rock, it would be the "Earth Manipulation" class, yes?

Of course, the Bonecrafting part of this is indeed necromancy, putting the bone reagents into "unnatural animation" to construct things.

[Rayne (Alýr)]

Just because you acknowledge it doesn't mean it matters, not when it weighs so little. I honestly think that Silfer should have my job. Or Tarq, now that he's back. People listen to them more than they listen to me.

In any case, I don't think you can really take anything from the Earth entry as true. To my knowedge, Artimidor never even looked at it because he was too busy helping you on that Fire Magic over view. Since I wrote it, I've had a lot of discussions with people about magic, have thought the way Tarq and Silpher are thinking and been told no, that I'm wrong.

After reading the Magic overview, I'm now wondering if it fits in Ecua or Xuea since you're manipulating the link between the bones and their initial location. It's all rather confusing. I really think Arti should come take a look at this. I know he's busy, but I think he would rather take a few minutes to comment instead of having us come to a wrong decision about the spell.

[Silfer Darkflare]

Well, you can theoritically put anyhting with Xeua, as long as it delas with linking of any kind... but we don't.

Also, please di9ffer between facts and opinions here. Where to put this spell is an opinion, not a fact... you all have arguments for your opinions, but it does not make them facts.

So i agree with rayne, we should bring mroe people into this, as opinions should be decided a little democratically.

BTW, dasson: The thign with "unnatural animation": I thoguht that was how this spell worked... after all, bones are not necessarily under the earth. if this spell is cast and a bone is lying on the ground, what then, Rayne?

[Fox]

Rayne, please don't get upset by this. It's not something that should be resulting in an argument and hurt feelings.

I'll try and get Arti to come look at this... but it may take some time.

Santharian Master of Magic. Contact at dasson@santharia.com
The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

[Rayne (Alýr)]

I'm upset? o.o;

Now I'm really confused..

::sighs::

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

[Fox]

People are upset when they start degrading themselves.

And it's looked like that to me...

Santharian Master of Magic. Contact at dasson@santharia.com
The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

[Viresse]

I can make the bones crawl.
That'd be really cool...
*sees rib-bones wriggle from earth and slither to their meeting point.*
yessssssssssssss, very necromacy-ish.

And well. Fine.
I guess BONECRAFTING should be a different spell that BONECALLING. I guess the latter can be a very, very low "Animate Dead"-like spell.

I can't believe this got so out of hand.

So I'll break the two.
But they still deal with bones, and you all are thinking too hard about it.
It's bones, and necromancy.
You can technically do the same thing with Xeua magic, but why would an Xeua Mage want to do that?! He might as well make his own chair out of somethign like WOOD.
So.
Just-
It's bones. And only bones.
It works for nothing else.

*pokey de Viresse at viresse@santharia.com* - Adventures of Caelereth Administrator
The Santharian Dream - Home sweet Home...

Edited by: Viresse  at: 5/12/03 4:25:53 am

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