Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solution

Bard Judith

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #15 on: 11 May 2006, 14:57:00 »

As Art says it's more or less technically correct, d'you know what I'd like to see?

I'd love to see Coren rewrite his post in his 'flowery' Zephyric style and submit it as a 'published pamphlet' by the 'Nybelmarnian Scholar Coren FrozenZephyr'...

I'd also love the three or four mages who have been batting around their Elemental concepts in the Magic forum to do the same thing! Yup, take your arguments, rephrase them in good medieval phraseology, add your Santharian avatar names/personas, and then collate the whole thing as a "Codex Darashi" - a publication which is intended as a companion piece to the Elemene Tablata (or whatever the heck I called the thing. Sort of like the Midrash is the commentary on the Talmud...)

Midrash
(pl. midrashim). From darash, "to inquire," whence it comes to mean “exposition” (of *****ure). Refers to the “commentary” literature developed in classical Judaism that attempts to interpret Jewish *****ures in a thorough manner. Literary Midrash may focus either on halaka, directing the Jew to specific patterns of religious practice, or on (h)aggada, dealing with theological ideas, ethical teachings, popular philosophy, imaginative exposition, legend, allegory, animal fables—that is, whatever is not halaka.


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Drasil Razorfang

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #16 on: 12 May 2006, 00:52:00 »

??? I don't get your second proposal. BTW I like you signature, it will help me improve my vocabulary

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Miraran Tehuriden

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #17 on: 12 May 2006, 04:17:00 »

The Lady High-Bard Judith has decreed in her infinite wisdom, (Hail Bard Judith! Hail!) that four mages of Wisdom and Power, and members of the Four Elemental Schools of Ximax, are to write and compile a scroll of wise words, wich will clarify those matter adressed in the Scrolls on Ounia Theory such as published by Lord Sage Coren Frozenzephyr.

Long live Lady Judith!

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Mina

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #18 on: 12 May 2006, 18:38:00 »

@Coren: The 10% of fire ounia will dominate if the other 89% made up by Wind and Earth are not expressing their properties (ie. having no influence on the car'all). I agree with Arti that you might have focused too much on absolute quantity. It's the percantage of ounia expressing their properties that matters, not the absolute percentage of the ounia in the car'all. But, it'd only require some minor changes to correct that, so it's a good argument nonetheless.

@Bard Judith: I'd love that too. I'm not sure I could pull it off though. Perhaps I could give it a try one of these days.

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Emváy

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #19 on: 02 June 2006, 18:37:00 »

Example of what I think Mina's thoughts are on the matter of the property being strongly expressed as being more significant than quantity of ounia.

Clear Alcohol: Alcohol has many expressed properties of water and is very similiar to it in alot of ways. But it takes only a slight increase in fires property of heat to turn this water like substance to nearly a pure flame state.
Though most of the ounia within this particular substance are more water aligned than anything else. It is the nearness of activity in the small amount of fire ounia that becomes fully expressed easily.

The layers of properties in an ounia I find quite intriguing and it could explain alot. Stating which property is expressed due to it's closeness to the outer layer of an ounia sounds somewhat scientific yet philisophical as well. I do fear seeing molecule like drawings used to express this idea though.

I do have to state that quantity of a particular ounia is nowhere near as important as quality expressed. IMHO

A bit of Coren mingled with an entry style writeup and this could be a go to for many a magic study.

After reading what you have here Coren, for the second time. I find myself with answers to things I have questioned for a bit. This idea gives hints to an explanation on how far can a property be weakened. If each ounia has a neutral state within the car'all with all properties contained within each. This neutral state would be just that, Neutral. Basically setting all properties to its base set of layers, maybe one property slightly more expressed than the others but no properties weakened to the point that I.E... Ice is formed with fire ounia by completely weakening the heat properties within it. Since under this theory all properties are present it refutes this little bit of lunacy that has been hinted at by people.

Sidenote: Oun is not a word! I had my little elven knuckles cracked by Marv. for my attempts to use that word. :wink2

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Edited by: Twen Araerwen at: 6/2/06 8:20


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Bard Judith

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #20 on: 02 June 2006, 19:06:00 »

Whoa, Mira! My wish is not quite their command (that is, "I'd love" does not equal "I decree"...) - and if I WERE a lady you'd know about it. Alas, I hold no tracts of land, no grants from our King, no rights of ius prima, high/middle/low justice, or firma burgi - only my voice and my bardic rings. :smile

Mina: Oh, I don't think it would take that much effort. The perspiration has already been put in by you hard-workin', hard-thinkin', hard-headed mages... the thread on Elemental Properties already reads much as I envisioned a meeting between head alchemists running (albeit in modernized language...) I wonder if we could just use a translation program? Hmmm... :devilish

Twen: I could've sworn 'ounia' was the plural of 'oun', but then again you could've gotten 'ouns' by me without an eyeblink as well... I am suitably warned, and I trust your dainty knuckles will heal swiftly. Here - a dollop of
"The Brandi's" will take care of the bruising in no time!


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Marvin Cerambit

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #21 on: 02 June 2006, 22:30:00 »

Quote:
Sidenote: Oun is not a word! I had my little elven knuckles cracked by Marv. for my attempts to use that word.

Psst *pokes Twen* Oun is a word, but not Ouns (which is what I said). Like our bard said: one Oun, mulitple Ounia

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Falethas Whisperwind

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #22 on: 03 June 2006, 04:54:00 »

Yes, guys, oún is most definitely a word whose plural is ounía. Not in the Styrásh dictionary yet, though... We should probably put it in. I'll go post in in the Language forum... *walks off*


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Emváy

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #23 on: 03 June 2006, 05:17:00 »

~Wipes brow~ "Oun, Ouns, Ounia, Ahm, Soor, Car'all, voice, links ... oh my little brain hearts." ~Continues to whine a bit loudly~

Quote of the moment
"Ouns ain't a word and I ain't gonna use it." A fine example of how to butcher the English language.

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Edited by: Twen Araerwen at: 6/2/06 18:22


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Falethas Whisperwind

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #24 on: 03 June 2006, 06:03:00 »

*Hears Twen's pained whines and runs back*

I feel for you, Twen! :hug

Edited by: Ysuran Auondril at: 6/3/06 18:09


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Epthaeranté á sáh pheranía sáh alyría; ahmantát naithím sá sae'llán styaeyías.
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Coren FrozenZephyr

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #25 on: 04 June 2006, 09:02:00 »

Quote:
The layers of properties in an ounia I find quite intriguing and it could explain alot. Stating which property is expressed due to it's closeness to the outer layer of an ounia sounds somewhat scientific yet philisophical as well. I do fear seeing molecule like drawings used to express this idea though.

I never had that kind of a 'layer' in mind! Twen I think you took this too literally...

Layers as I envisioned them are more like "qualities" or abilities to an oun. What I mean is that layers do not really have to stand in relation to each other in space (ie Heat-layer above/below/to the east of/between light-layer)

Hmm but maybe yours (how did we spell this?) could be another interpretation of this theory. I need to think on it a bit

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #26 on: 04 June 2006, 09:20:00 »

I understand what it is you are trying to say with this philosophy Coren. But when you use a word like "layers" many people are going to think in the physical sense. As I mentioned above I can see this looked upon in both a scientific or philosophical way. Maybe some wording that does not lend the average reader to look at it in the physical sense of layers would be more clearly understood. But then again you are speaking of a philosophy so some might just view in the physical sense. Some very interesting views you have brought up with this write up. Nicely done Coren! ~bows gracefully and departs~

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Edited by: Twen Araerwen at: 6/3/06 22:22


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Coren FrozenZephyr

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Re: Ounia & expression of properties-an alternative solu

« Reply #27 on: 04 June 2006, 09:55:00 »

I need to remember to put up the "Coren's Lamp" analogy - Silf do you have a copy of that discussion? I am sure I had a few other additions in mind which I can't recall very vividly right now

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