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Author Topic: Tribal Dialects within the Santharian Kingdom  (Read 22861 times)
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #15 on: 06 August 2008, 21:58:55 »

I want a dialect! I do!

Oh wait...

The Kaaer don't speak Tharian... undecided

But if they did, it would sound gutteral like Klingon.  cool
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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #16 on: 07 August 2008, 02:55:25 »

*Looks at Judith with a puzzled expression, obviously trying to decide if that was one of her brilliantly crafted back-handed compliments, or just a plain old insult. Gives up before his brain starts hurting. Again*

Did this entry spring from the dialectical discussions we had a couple of weeks ago, Judith? Whatever, it's a wonderful idea.

I'm not quite sure where my accent would fall in the list. A couple of them are similar to mine, but not 'rough' enough. Perhaps this is where Mina's suggestion comes in?

I think my accent fits Tharoc's character quite well. It's common (basic), and can be used to good comic effect, giving him a 'nice but dim persona.

However, if you find that it fits another race/tribe/clan better, let me know and I'll translate anything you need!
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #17 on: 07 August 2008, 04:17:30 »

Look at the date of the first post, Tharoc , it is nearly two years old.

Quote
STRATANIANS -  speak Tharian, Shendartongue, and Strataslang.   Traders, and settled nomads.  A stew of races, tribes, and peoples pass through the great port of Strata, and almost every substance or material that can be exported or imported, so these folk have truly ‘seen everything’.   They speak fluent Tharian with plenty of slang words from other tribes and races – even other continents – and with a bit of sailor’s lilt, but have kept the guttural Shendarian accent.

Their dialect is characterized by dropping some vowels or slurring them into the indeterminant vowel sound ‘uh’,  but keeping consonants clear.  In writing this unique sound is often represented by an apostrophe showing the dropped vowel, thus:

“Which way were y' thinking of going t' reach th' port?  If y’ keep on that way, y’d find the stockyards ‘nd the fish market, but ‘tis the long way ‘round.”

For stronger accents it has even been written as ‘uh’ or ‘eh’, resulting in recorded dialogue that appears as below:

“I told yeh, we duhn’t want strangers poking uhround our warehouses.  Be off with yeh, before we spike yer tail with a halbard er two!”

This sort of speech is usually reserved for the lower class of Stratanian merchant or peasant, and should not be overused in writing, but it visually shows the way in which the sound falls on the ear very effectively!

Hmm, didn't know the Shendar had a guttural accent ;)

I can't say much about that proposal other than that it is truly a mixture as you describe it. And the examples are very nice (that warehouse). However, you use Stratanian as if it would apply to the "whole tribe", but there was not really something like a Stratanian tribe, Stratiania was more a political structure. What you wrote might well apply to Strata, but I doubt Varcopas will speak like the Stratanians, nor the people of Thalmbath.

In addition, it is difficult to write about dialects, if the nomenclature and other characteristics of the language itself are not yet done. For Strata itself, their erpheronian history should show through as well.

Thanks nevertheless!
« Last Edit: 07 August 2008, 04:30:18 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: 09 August 2008, 23:55:41 »

I'm getting a very Scottish feel for the Stratanian accent..... intentional, or am I misreading?
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« Reply #19 on: 17 November 2008, 00:38:03 »

As the quealhoirhim are a very open elven tribe  (with isolated gatherings on the Elver ground) it would make sense that the humans in the area take some styrash-isms and vice versa.



In terms of dialects for elves. We have one. Ylffer. It needs a drastic overhaul to make it more of a dialect, less of a language. Yes I take your point it makes sense one one hand that elves in isolated forests talk differently. And yet it doesn't when you look at real life drivers of dialect more closely.

I have always opted not to give elves dialects in northern and southern sarvonia and I'll explain for why:

If you look at somewhere like Britain with a diverse selection accents and dialects and you look at what has driven that diversity the answer is  primarily invasion. Welsh and Gaelic are remenats of native language.  English accents derive from the various northern European tribes that invaded after the Romans left, but have developed through the input of other invaders and settlers. In London and the south east the Norman French input is heavily visible in vowel sounds and endings as compared to the Northeast, where the spoken English dialect is far closer to original Anglo-Saxon dialect (compare wrong to the more Anglo saxon form found in Northumberland and Scotland 'wrang'). The Cumbrian geordie accents come from Norse influence from viking settlers: you can see that in dialect words like bait (packed lunch), tae (to),"ower", "yonder", "yek", "yat", "yem" so on and so on.

 Few of the elven tribes have been invaded and none of those settlers have stayed. So no dialect. No original settlers (apart from the Grenn), so no dialect.

Then there's Generations: Generational difference drive language change. You only need to look at my younger cousin's text speak which I find completely impenetrable! Humans live 60-80 years. Elves live 500-1000 years.  Less generational change = Less chance of dialect. Only complete and length isolation would trigger a dialect (and hence why I want to tone Ylffer right down - it is far too different).

Last driver for Dialect is Trade between similar language groups.
English used to have germanic endings, just like its closest relative Dutch and all the other languages in its immediate group. In fact English is unique. Welsh has latinate endings. French, Spanish, Italian - they all have similar gender and number specific ending structures - all different, but still identifiably from the same root.

English does not have endings in the same way. And Why? well when the Norse and Danes came and settled in predominantly Northern England they understood the Saxon words for 'pig' 'sheep' 'horse', as they were the same. What differed was the endings  and the agreed gender for words used in Saxon, Danish and Norse. So they just dropped them over time to facilitate trade. English shows plural with an 's' regardless of sex or number. We have one word for the. Cousin does not distinguish male or female.

Trade between similar but distinct language drives dialect. There is no similar language group to styrash. So no dialect development.

What might develop is a specific way elven of talking Tharian - for example the Welsh expression By here or By there I am told comes from the fact that there is no word in welsh for this, these or those. You have to say 'The chair here' or 'the shirts there'. When a Welsh speaker spoke English therefore, he rendered the english words in the welsh grammatical fashion.

Similarly when an elf speaks Tharian and is not very good at it, she may try and render the Tharain words with Elven thinking and grammar. If there is lots of contact with humans the surrounding population may pick up the literalism with which the elves describe their world. You might also see some pick up of words in to each language.

The other notable exception are the Water Rats a rag tag band of nomadic elves and anyone else who cares to join them found around New Santhala who speak such a dialect that is part Tharian, Part Styrash and part their very own invention.

So - very long winded post- but those are the reasons I wouldn't personally be in favor of Elven Dialects in Sarvonia.

Of course continents separated by large bodies of water are quite another kettle of fish :)
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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #20 on: 14 June 2010, 09:22:36 »

More grave digging! :D
I love this! It'd be an excellent resource to be sure.
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« Reply #21 on: 15 June 2010, 01:19:53 »

We've integrated some of this already in tribal reworks, like in the entry on the Avennorians and the Erpheronians etc. - though if someone feels he/she'd like to elaborate such a Tribal Language section for another tribe, be my guest! Would be great to see some conceptual things reach a state so that they can finally make it on the site!  grin
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #22 on: 15 June 2010, 06:20:00 »

Yeah, remember what I said not long ago about many of Judy's old gems of unfinished entries hiding about the Compendium? This is one of them.  heart
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