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Author Topic: The Modern History of the Sophronian Tribe  (Read 14377 times)
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Grunok the Exile
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« on: 13 February 2007, 06:57:27 »


Hi everyone.  Because this changed so much, the post which is currently being worked on is the one at the top of the second page: this first page is all just notes.  - Grunok





Okay, so so far we have a bit of stuff on the site about this tribe, but all in the distant past (10.000b.S. and before) mostly.  I am slowly working on sorting out a Modern History of the Sophronian Tribe because I am tring to write Chrondra.  I know this isn't the best time to start a thread on what I have so far what with me going away and all, but still, I feel inspired right now, so I'm going to do it anyway.  grin

These are the two things which have been the problem for me:

10330 b.S.
Peace treaty between Avennorians and Sophronians

Under the leadership of Thorgeir of the Avennorians and Etain of the Sophronians these two kingdoms sign a trade treaty.

10000 b.S. - 9800 b.S.
Further Expansion and the Discovery of Aeruillin

The Avennorians explore, settle and found two more settlements; Klinsor, near the southern border of the Tolonian Heath, and Chrondra northwest of Marcogg near the Mithril Mountains, becoming a river settlement off of one of the tributaries of the Mashdai River...

Because of these seemingly contradictory facts, it makes it difficult to have the Avennorians and Serphelorians openly hostile to one another at any time after the treaty.  The idea I am working with at the moment (I have been thinking about this even though I haven't been working on it as such) is that the Sophronians stayed partially nomadic, so that while some settled in Serpheloria in 10540 b.S., many others continued to wander.  In the entry at the moment it says that some went west and settled with the Eyelians - this is fine, but we need some to the north too, or why is that still their territory when the kingdoms map is drawn?  It wasn't a united government I'd say - Sophronia, the capital, governs only itself and some southern towns, and the few northern towns and the nomadic women rule themselves seperately, only acknowledging kinship, not acknowledging them as their rulers.  This then, is why Elsreth (which was founded by Sophronian women) was taken over by the Eyelians.

Basically I see Sophronia as such as only having consisted of the town of Serpheloria, which is now the ruins between Chrondra and New Santhala; Hawke's Perch which is now completely obliterated and no-one is exactly sure where it is; and Tarranoar.  We could have one or two other places north a bit which were part of the kingdom in the detailed map, but I'd say that mostly apart from these places it was just roving bands of warlike women who held the "borders" purely by wandering around and telling anyone they didn’t know to leave “their” lands, often at arrow-point.

This would then allow the Avennorians to settle Chrondra.  I would like to write it as having been part of the deal with which they made the peace treaty in 10330 b.S.: we could say that the Avennorians offered to build a town on the borders of their and the Sophronian's lands to symbolise their lasting commitment to each other (the Avennorians being much better at building much more spectacular and long-lasting towns than the previously nomadic Serphelorians).  This would be a town where both tribes could live peacefully together with the benefits of the Avennorians not having to worry about the Serphelorians militarily speaking, and the Serphelorians getting to live with the benefits of Avennorian comforts (we all know how Avennorians like their luxury!) while also not having to watch their back against the Avennorians ( I think it says somewhere that they are having some trouble with Eyelians at this time, but that would be something I would look at later). 

The offer was accepted to seal the peace deal, and as the site chosen by both parties as the most suitable was on what was traditionally Sophronian lands, it was known as a Sophronian town, but it  ended up being ruled by the Avennorians because they were better at ruling than Sophronians.  I imagine it went something like this:
Av and Serph: “Let’s rule together Chrondra together with a council made up of half Avennorians and half Serphelorians.”
Av and Serph: “Okay!”
Av: “Hey, you’re having trouble there.  This is how we do it.  Lets try that.”
Serph: “Oh, great idea!”
(Later) Av: “Here, do you want a hand with that?”...etc, etc.  As members retire from the council, the new members are recruited from Chrondra’s elite, who are mostly Avenorian anyway.  They sort of try to get Serphelorians on the council, but the people with the skills are nearly all originally Avennorian because they have that kind of mind.  (Serphelorians are not business-minded – that’s why they had to keep moving from place to place in the history already written – because they are not very good at coming up with solutions to disputes, and would rather fight or just leave.)  So within a fairly short time (150 years or less) all the members of the council are Avennorian.

Then, because circumstance makes it so easy, the Avennorians begin to take over the rest of the cities or towns which belong to the Serphelorian kingdom, thus:

A war destroys Sophronia the town.  Many of the refugees go to Chrondra as it is safe (big walls, Avennorians known to be a power); others flood the various villages in the Serphelorian kingdom causing all sorts of problems with the governance of the towns.  The Avennorians decide to take over Serpheloria by stealth, so they send in their best people to "help", and they basically take control of the cities much like happened in Chrondra.  The Serphelorians are, to a great extent, grateful for this help, not realising or not caring that they don’t really rule their lands any more.  Those who realise and are unhappy leave, as Serphelorians tend to do, to join their nomadic brethren to the north of the kingdom.

So basically, after 10330, the settled places in Serpheloria become more and more an annex to the Avennorian Kingdom politically, even though they keep a belief in being Serphelorian.  They remain Serphelorian in customs (e.g. women are preferred as much as or more than men as rulers and fighters, they are good fighters, they keep some parts of their architectural style (i.e. few hulk-roofs), they have differen modes of dress to Avennorians…), but all their ruling class are Avennorian by birth.  These Avennorians "become" Serphelorians - they are "adopted" into the tribe as honorary Serphelorians by powerful people at the start, wear Serphelorian clothes, speak their language as well as Glandorian, etc - basically do everything they can so that the Serphelorians won't notice that they are, by say 8000b.S., entirely ruled by Avennorians except for the nomads, who answer to no-one and were never ruled by Sophronia at all.

I would, if this idea is ok, have to decide which war would ruin Sophronia the city.  It could be one we’ve already written about, or it could be a smaller-scale issue with the elves of the Zeiphyrian forests, or something else.  There are heaps of other things I’d have to do before I could come up with a full history of the Sophronian Tribe, but I think this is a start toward that goal.  Let me know what you think!
« Last Edit: 08 June 2008, 15:26:21 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged

Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #1 on: 14 February 2007, 05:14:45 »

The idea is very good, Grunok, I like it. :)

A few notes however: We have this map of 482 b.S. on the site, where the borders of the "Serphelorian Kingdom" are shown, see here (click on image to enlarge):



Which means: These territory border for this "kingdom" should exist at that time. The question of course is how strong is that kingdom at all, and whether it deserves this name or not. I think keeping that kingdom very weak is a very good idea, because it definitely needs to (partly) crumble. So while there might have been major leaders here and there and larger town-states, and perhaps at some point a kingdom was proclaimed, there could have been splits between the various directions, perhaps the final destructive force comes even from within - and another tribe takes care of the remnants then and finally occupies this territory once and for all, e.g. the Eyelians after the fall of Sophronia.

Note as well that in the territory of the Serphelorian kingdom we also have the Paelelon up north, a region where dark elves dominate, so I'd say this area was pretty much independent at this time, being dominated by the evil guys.

In the south east it could indeed have been as you write, Grunok, that the Avennorians took care of the administration, the trade etc. and more and more grew in influence. Actually, today's Manthrian borders could have been more or less already the territory that was in Avennorians hands practically, but inofficially. So when the provinces of the Santharian kingdom were formed the status quo could have been affirmed that way. Note that between 482 b.S. (Thar unites the north) and the year 0 history moved on in Avennoria and Serpheloria - at this time the "realm" could have slowly crumbled to dust. Chrondra then would already have become official Avennorian territory I assume.
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« Reply #2 on: 21 February 2007, 12:06:44 »

Hi again!  Here is what I have now.  I decided not to edit my original post as this is quite different and more developed than that, although you should be able to see the similarities and where I've integrated your comments.  It is till a bit rough in places, but I wanted to get this up before I leave.

The first parts are in grey so you can see what is simply taken off the site and not my invention at all, and the yellow bits which are where I would like to make additions to things which are already up on the site.

Well, here goes:



11000 - 10875 b.S.   Still travelling
Move south after dispute over grazing rights at Aurora fields.


circa 11000   Elsreth founded
Elsreth founded by woman leaving tribe to settle.

   
10665 -10540 b.S.   The Patriarchal Years, tribe splits again
Twin sons Talos and Eldon leaders of the tribe.

There are many disputes among the women and those who disagree leave and go west or north continuing their nomadic and tribal ways.  The tribe splits into southerners who settle and northerners who stay fiercely matriarchal and somewhat nomadic.

Eventually those who go west find acceptance in the Eyelian people and villages forming there and mingle with them. It is reported that some of those Sophronians also become griffon riders for the Eyelian army.   Those who go north remain as nomadic groups, each small band governing itself.  Some eventually settle into villages; some of these still exist.


ca. 10540 b.S.   Sophronia (town) founded
Eldon settles and founds the village Sophronia, named after the first leader of the tribe, who lived many years ago.


ca. 10535 b.S.   Founding of Hawkes' Perch
Talos moves a little farther south and finds a wonderful valley he calls Hawke's Perch. Together both brothers cooperate and live peacefully with each other. One is interested in building an empire, the other is only interested in the land and cultivating it.


-ca. 10330 b.S.  Growth and Trade
Eldon's son Etain continues to build and open trade with other villages in the surrounding area especially to the east where a small gathering of villages is forming (now called Marcogg). Etain dies with the trade routes firmly established between these villages and even with the elves that live in the Zeiphyrian Forest.
   

10330 b.S.            Peace treaty between Avennorians and Sophronians
Under the leadership of Thorgeir of the Avennorians and Etain of the Sophronians these two kingdoms sign a trade treaty.  This treaty includes a clause stipulating that the Avennorians will help the Sophronians in the finishing of their capital, and that the two states will found Chrondra (The Serphelorian word for “agreement” and similar to the Glandorian word “chronida”, meaning to cement or join) together.

   
-ca. 10220 b.S.   The Fortification of Sophronia
His son Ames continues on building relations and also builds the first walls and fortifications for the village. He also explores and founds a small village called Tarranoar on the Gulf of Mayara, which should once develop to an important central base for human sea operations during SW II. Ames has no son but a daughter.

   
-ca. 10150 b.S.   Sophronia finished
Sophronia is expanded past its fortifications and becomes a large, vibrant city with the help of the Avennorians.



ca. 10.000 b.S.    Nisheton Prospers
Nisheton becomes a larger community and begins to attract fishers and farmers as settlers. Various travelers see opportunities in the town and remain to begin businesses.



ca. 10000bS      Chrondra constructed

As part of the deal with which they made the peace treaty in 10330 b.S., the Avennorians offered to build a town on the borders of their and the Sophronian's lands to symbolise their lasting commitment to each other (the Avennorians being much better at building much more spectacular and long-lasting towns than the previously nomadic Serphelorians).  This would be a town where both tribes could live peacefully together with the benefits of the Avennorians not having to worry about the Serphelorians militarily speaking, and the Serphelorians getting to live with the benefits of Avennorian comforts (we all know how Avennorians like their luxury!).  The offer was accepted to seal the peace deal.  It was 330years before the work was started due to Avs helping with Sophronia first.  As the site chosen by both parties as the most suitable was on what was traditionally Sophronian lands, it was known as a part of the Serphelorian kingdom although both tribes had equal membership in the ruling council there, at least initially.  Many inhabitiants of Chrondra begin to think of themselves as Serphelorian, regardless of their original tribe, although some cling to their original Avennorian heritage and pass this identity own to their children.


ca. 9.800 b.S.      Chrondra ruled by Avennorians.
Over the first two hundred years the council gradually becoms dominated by Avennorian representatives.  This is due to the percieved superiority of the Avennorians in politics.  (percieved by both parties – it is agreed that Avennorians are better at the boring politics stuff, and Serphelorians are better at the figthing and protecting the weak) As such, Serphelorian representatives with the necessary skills - or who are willing to relinquish their more important (to them) roles in the army etc - difficult to find.  As members retire from the council, the new members are recruited from Chrondra’s elite, who are mostly Avenorian anyway.  They sort of try to get Serphelorians on the council, but the people with the skills are nearly all originally Avennorian because they have that kind of mind.  (Serphelorians are not – that’s why they had to keep moving from place to place in the history already written – because they are not very good at coming up with solutions to disputes, and would rather fight or just leave.)  So within a fairly short time (200 years) all the members of the council are Avennorians who take their cues from the Avennorian King in Ciosa.


9500 – 9000 b.S .   WotC and Years of Cleansing
During this time Sophronia and the village of Hawke’s Perch are destroyed.  Refugees flee to Chrondra which, while not unscathed, is mostly passed over.  At this time contact is lost between Chrondra and Ciosa.  The ruling council of Chrondra are all killed in the violence except one person, an ex-Avennorian man.  Councillor of Chrondra becomes an hereditary position from this man.  Due to Avennorian influences and Spohronian history after Talos and Eldon, men are preferred as inheritors.


8900 b.S     First new settlements built
People from Chrondra go out to found new settlements on the Elverground or north.  Most of the founders of these settlements are full- or half-blooded Avennorians, meaning most of the ruling class are originally Avennorian.  Many remember their heritage, but nearly all consider themselves Sophronian anyway.


8108 b.S.   Quesvath born.

Soon to be an important figure in Sophronian politics, Quesvath is born to Koran, the Councillor of Chondra and his wife.  Koran dies of a fever soon after.  Quesvath’s mother accedes to the Councillorship.


8069 b.S.   Quesvath accedes to Councillorship
Quesvath’s mother dies.  Quesvath, by now an avid proponent of traditonal Sophronian ways, accedes to Councillorship at the age of 39.  She has a dream to unite the disparate nomadic ad settled people of her tribe, so over the next years she travels the lands speaking to all the leaders she can find and gaining their support to unite into a proper Kingdom under her leadership.


8066 b.S.   Quesvath crowns herself Queen of Serpheloria.
Quesvath’s realm stretches from Elsreth in the north to Chrondra in the south, and from the east cost to the Rimmerins Ring.  The Ring is disputed territory with the Eyelians – nomadic bands of Serphelorian roam here as do Eyelians.  Fighting has been going on between nomadic groups and villages of Eyelians for sme time now.


8065 b.S.    Rebuilding of Sophronia
Quesvath orders the rebuilding of Sophroniain in what she thinks is the traditional style.  It is finished in 8053, at which time Quesvath makes it her capital from whence she governs her realm.


8021 b.S.     Queen Ruth is crowned
Quesvath dies at the grand old age of 81.  Having had no children, she passes the inheritance to her great friend Salreia’s daughter Ruth, whom she has groomed to carry on her works.  Ruth is as proud and ambitious as her predecessor and does much good for her people, improving towns and villages.  Other Queens follow.


ca. 6000b.S.    Peace with Eyelia
A peace treaty is negotiated with the united clans of Eyelia.  The Rimerins Ring is to be officially Eyelian territory, but nomads can wander here but not for more then half the year.  Begins an uneasy truce but slowly works when neither side re-initiates hostilities.  No real trade between the two nations though.


ca. 5000b.S     Tarranoar founded


ca. 3000 - 500b.S   Serpheloria deteriorates
A  succession of weak leaders sets in motion a slow disintegration of the Serphelorian Kingdom.  Over this time Elsreth, as well as many other towns in the northern two-thirds of the Kingdom declare themselves to be town-states, independent from the sovereign.


1649 b.S.    Mir'Dark, the "Endless Night"

All towns have high fatalities; the Sophronians understand this year as Jeyriall (one of the Sophronians’ favoured two Gods) having abandoned them. 


1645 b.S.    Rekj Swanhild crowned in Ciosa
Rekj sends emissaries to Chrondra – contact and some trade is re-established.


ca. 1200 -1150 b.S.     "Migard’s Folly" – the Serphelorian Civil War
The weak and stupid King Migard tries to unite Serpheloria again.  He travels around the Serphelorian kingdom with a large phalanx of soldiers – mostly men – and holds talks with the leaders of various city-states.  Unfortunately, Migard’s ideas are highly offensive to the mainly matriarchal towns and nomads; he tries to convine them to unite for progress, but his vision of progress is settling in cities and giving up the old matriarchal, martial and nomadic ways, which he sees as little better than barbarism.  Eventually one leader, Quinolgia of Islia, is insulted beyond her endurance and attacks the party, harrying them off her lands.  Migard takes insult at this and gathers reinforcements from the southern cities and attacks back, trying to subdue the town-states.  The nomads join in to break the seige, lay traps etc, work out on the land harrying troops.  Other town-states who are offended help the cause.  This begins a fifty-year long war between the north and the south which ends only with Migard’s death and the ascension of Migard’s much more sensible younger cousin and heir, Tibor.


ca. 1190 b.S.     Elsreth becomes part of Eyelia
Elsreth, not wanting to be caught up in the fighting, defects to become part of Eyelia.  The Eyelians pledge forces to hold it in case there are reprisals.  This leads to members of all clans relocating to live there, although the reprisals never come as the Sophronians are too busy fighting amongst themselves. 


1200-1150 b.S.    Settlement of Carmalad

Serphelorians escaping the civil war found Carmalad.


1067 b.S.   Quaelhoirhim Elves move out on to the Elverground

Some members of the Quaelhoirhim move out of the Zeiphyrian forest and begin to make their homes in the Elverground area.  In this process Sophronians become friendly with the elves.  Around this time Saloh is built and trade is established between the two races.  The Sophronians become regular and welcomed visitors to Saloh.


806 b.S.    Battle of Annihilation at the Zeiphyrian Forests
Sophronians join their allies the elves against the humans from the north.  They suffer huge losses.  During this time the town of Sophronia is ruined again in the battles.  The capital and the army moves back to Chrondra. 


804 b.S. to 800 b.S.    The Attack on the Tethinrhim Ria
Sophronians fight the Avennorians with the elves.
   

800 b.S.    Avvenorians Abandon the War
Sophronians continue to fight Erpheronians with elves; become valued spies in the North for elven tribes.


760 b.S.    The Ylfferhim declare their Independence
The Ylfferhim elves declare their independence from the Quaelhoirhim and pull out of the war.  This comes as a blow to the Sophronians fighting with the Quaelhoirhim, but they fight on.


749 b.S. The Demise of the Avennorians
Erpheronia takes over Avennoria.  This makes Sophronia very nervous so they redouble their efforts for their allies the elves, hoping to avoid the Avennorians’ fate.


729 b.S.            The Deciding of the Blood

The Sophronians are relieved, and most people who can go to watch the contest.  Peace is won for all sides.  Contact with elves diminishes as both races concentrate on re-establishing themselves after their awful losses in the war.


550 b.S.            Night of the Hand
Contact with elves is minimal again now.  Their weak and frightened Queen leads the Sophronians to officially blame the elves for the murder and desecration on the Isle of Hope, due to fear of and pressure from Avennoria and its now ruling Erpheronia.  The general population still feels warmly toward the elves, despite the fact that they are hardly seen now, so this decision is not well received amongst the people.  The Sophronian army is sent to the north to fight the elves, though the Quaelhoirhim object as does much of the populace.  Some of the army go north, but many defect, blending into towns and bands of nomads along the way so only a small force reaches the north.  Most of the population hates the monarch for her weakness; the Serphelorian kingdom fractures even more.  Other than that, SWII is not a big one for the Sophronians.
   

535 b.S.     Queen Kaira the Last
In this year the last Serphelorian Queen, Kaira, accedes to the throne.  She is a strong Queen, and very Avennorian in her techniques.  She unites the people - some say against their will! - although she is unable to reclaim Elsreth and does not dispute the Eyelian’s claim to the Rimmerins Ring.  The map of the kingdoms is drawn five years before her death by murder, as despite her sucesses she is not at all well liked.
 

505 – 502 b.S.      Elverground Suffers a Three Year Drought

 
477 b.S.     Serpheloria Perishes
After the murder the succession is thrown into doubt, leading to internal wars between factions.  Eyelia, with the help of Sophronians from Elsreth persuades the northern states to join it, as well as some other western southern pieces like Brinsley; Avennoria takes over the rulership of the south by virtue of Avennoria-sympathetic male scions.  Serpheloria survives only in a few nomadic bands now confined to a much smaller area, and Islia, Klandonia and Hog, three town states near each other.  These remnants all undertake to train every person in arms as a means to stay independent and matriarchal.  Only Hog has found a way to thrive until the current time – the other two cities are now little more than villages with memories of a grand past.


298 to 292 b.S.      SWIII begins

Rumours of trouble with monsters in the north (invasion of Darkfriends, beginning of SWIII) reach the now peaceful remains of Serpheloria.  Some go north as mercenaries and join the Battle of Four Swords in Enthronia.


288 b.S.        The Defeat of Hourelin at the Silvermarshes

Caeorphynn comes through Serpheloria and rallies her troops here.  The Sophronians join the allied human, dwarven and elven forces to retake Carmalad from the Darkfriends, having heard of the war through those who went north as mercenaries and came back telling of horrors about to take over the world. 


0b.S   Santhros Crowned

Those who remain of Serpheloria are tired of constant threat from the kingdoms surrounding them and so they are easily presuaded to join Santharia when they are asked.


60 a.S.        The Sandstorm

The whole Elverground region is subjected to a two and a half year drought, called “the Sandstorm” due to the devastation wreaked on the area.


ca. 1000a.S           Last of the Nomads
At around this time, the last of the nomadic bands are seen.  They no longer roam here, mainly due to the increasing number of settlements punctuating “their” lands.  Many who don’t wish to settle go south to join the Shendar, hire themselves out as mercenaries or join up with the Black Butterfly Rovers.
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« Reply #3 on: 21 February 2007, 21:53:50 »

Yeah, Grun!  clap

I'll check this in detail this evening - but this is definitely what we need here to elaborate, so I'm happy that you're working on these details! Very much appreciated :)
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« Reply #4 on: 22 February 2007, 00:43:46 »

I think we discussed back then, that Chondra could well have been an old Darian settlement and that the Avennorian did not go this far north.

Please look at the territory of the Darian here:
http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php?topic=6820.0
I think no Darian settlement here is a bit illogical. If I remember right then we discussed some possibilities why the Avennorians didn't go farther north, can't recall them now.

Maybe go through the comments of your old entry as well, I mentioned there a war with the elves I think you have not included above (could be wrong, haven't read it thoroughly)

PS: Art - do you think a half finished submission is only sketched?
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« Reply #5 on: 22 February 2007, 06:57:42 »

Lumber wars:  Well, the Lumber wars happened before the peace treaty with Avennoria so I would suggest that this didn't really affect the Sophronians.

Also, I can't find (and don't remember) discussing that the Avennorians didn't go further north, but if there was something about that it on the boards I would be grateful if you could link me to the thread, if you remember where it was.

Darian:  There could well have been a Darian settlement there, although I would prefer that there was not one exactly there - that would be why they chose the site for Chrondra - because it was a good site, on the Mashdai so that the three towns/cities could trade together, and not inhabited.  They could have just had one close by, if that is ok with you. 

Looking your work on the Darian though, I will have to write something about how the Sophronians got on with the Darians, because as you say "...traces of them can be found [...] on the other side of the Mashdai in the ShadowWing Downs".  So that will be part of any updates I make  :)

Also, I was wondering if the last piece of the history is ok with you:
Quote
ca. 1000a.S           Last of the Nomads
At around this time, the last of the nomadic bands are seen.  They no longer roam here, mainly due to the increasing number of settlements punctuating “their” lands.  Many who don’t wish to settle go south to join the Shendar, hire themselves out as mercenaries or join up with the Black Butterfly Rovers.
I was wondering if you think some of them joining the Shendar like this would be realistic, or if I should take it out?

Thanks for the look-over, Talia; your insights are always appreciated  thanx
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« Reply #6 on: 22 February 2007, 07:02:24 »

Ok, back here now, checking your timeline, Grun! - Comments follow:

Quote
This treaty includes a clause stipulating that the Avennorians will help the Sophronians in the finishing of their capital, and that the two states will found Chrondra (The Serphelorian word for “agreement” and similar to the Glandorian word “chronida”, meaning to cement or join) together.

- *hehe* Now that's a quite unique idea to put the town as the focal point between the two tribes and deduce the town's name from words that fit to both tribes. The genesis of the name might in fact only be a rumour (at least I could imagine that), and one never knows for sure, but it is a great idea to write it that way :D

- You could put in here at this point perhaps that the Avennorians went for a treaty instead of conquering because they wouldn't have been able to tackle more fronts and were intent on securing as a first step. As the Sophronians had split as well, the power constellation was unclear and it surely was a good idea to make peace with a major faction and thus secure the borders - one never knows what might happen...

- I've noticed that the tribe names seem to be a bit to and fro (e.g. at the 10000 b.S. entry). We should make that clear: The Sophronians are the ancestors of the Serphelorians and elaborate that better:

.) The Sophronians are those that travel south and build the town of Sophronia and maybe some other settlements in that region (I assume, like Hawke's Perch). They are associated with each other.
.) Some go west and mingle with Eyelians (no specific tribe names, so we'd refer to these people as Sophronians as well I assume).
.) The Sophronians expand their area of influence and the conglommeration of these settlements would later on be referred to as the "Kingdom of Serpheloria", and the people living there as "Serphelorians".
.) Once that kingdom is founded we don't have "Sophronians" anymore (these were the ancestors), only "Serphelorians" I guess, even though they live in the capital of Sophronia.

I hope that rough elaboration is acceptable. If that is so, we don't have yet any official founding of a kingdom, that part somehow is still missing. Perhaps we shouldn't even call it a "kingdom" (yet). As that question still seems not cleared, how about making Serpherloria the "new" kingdom after the WoC?

So until the WoC we'd have Sophronians, then we'd have - I assume - a new great leader who gathers the remnants and makes a new effort to rebuild, and then this new area would be called "Sophronia" after that person. - What do you think?

- Unfortunately lots of other things off-site kept me busy today for further closer comments, will try again tomorrow, but things look very good in general! :D

@Talia: Darian history is not really elaborated yet regarding possible dates and time spans as far as I know - maybe I've missed something, though. But as we're trying to set up historical developments here and put on dates on events, this is only "sketchy" as of yet for the Darians. - Hope that clarifies my reference. I hope we can get the Darians elaborated in this process as well, would be very valuable not only to make Avennorian connections to the north, but also to the south!  thumbup
« Last Edit: 22 February 2007, 07:04:17 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #7 on: 22 February 2007, 07:45:44 »

Kingdom of Serpheloria:  oops, I had meant to make it that Quesvath names them the Serphelorians, and she is the strong monarch who eventually actually unites the parts.  The kingdom is strong-ish until about 3000b.S. when it starts to deteriorate.  It really splits up again at the Serphelorian Civil War ("Migard's Folly"), and remains split until after 535 b.S. when Kaira reunites them.  They only stay united in her reign, so after that that's the end of the Serphelorian Kingdom, although the three town-states remain Serphelorian.


Hope that clears it up, tho I'm in a hurry so it might not make sense - can hopefully explain more later!
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« Reply #8 on: 23 February 2007, 05:30:28 »

- Sure, that kingdom explanation sounds fine, was along the line of what I thought anyway. Just wanted to make it explicit what wasn't very clearly mentioned yet. The name of the Kingdom itself obviously isn't based on the new leader, Quesvath, though. So we need to come up with an explanation here what "Serpheloria" actually stands for.  cool

- In this respect the nomenclature thing also comes into play. The fact that we need to find names for regents requires a concept first on how these names should look like approximately. When I look at Sophronian names and the ones you have created then we have quite a difference here (Quesvath, Ruth, Alala, Kairos, Gaia, Xylonia etc.) So I assume we'll have to make some adjustments here, e.g. make otherwise rarer letters like X, Y and Q more prevalent. Or look at thetribes map at the Serphelorian Kingdom and use components of town names to construct typical Sophronian syllables. E.g. Chrondra, so we might have a Ch-, Heath of Cjur, so we might have Cj- or J-, Brinsley, so -ley could be an ending syllable for a famous male or female name etc. The term "Xythrian ridge" could be of Sophronian origin, as we have already a rough sketch for Eyelian naming and these names are quite different, and if I remember correctly no "X"s there.

Of course you'll be off soon to conquer the world, Grun, so you won't get to these things soon - but as the main timeline alread is elaborated here, I might as well already integrate it on the site and add/adjust some things as I go along - if that is ok with you. I could also try to get into Sophronian nomenclature if that's ok with you (would require some name adjustments, I'm sure) - but it would serve a good purpose I think :)

Also I suggest that we should give the Serphelorian rulers another title that fits to the tribe.

- The Eyelian timeline also needs to be roughly sketched, at least the approximate dates of their arrival and splitting - will also try to take care of that. I see these history things as top priority.

- Yep, the deterioration of Serpheloria is fine as well with me - internal power disputes leading to city states and finally sealing it with Mir'Dark, interpreted to be a sign of the Gods here as well. I see some prophecies coming telling us about the fall of the Empire already :)

- "The weak and stupid King"... lol Now that's a judgement - don't know if history usually would mention the word "stupid", though. But he could have a second name given by the people "Migard Dimwit" or something ;)

- Settlement of Carmalad: I see you've done your researches very carefully, Grun - always a pleasure to see that! :D

- Also the rest of the timeline with the perishing of Serpherloria and the consecutive events including the nomads makes a lot of sense to me! Sophronian women as Butterfly Rovers also sounds quite likely to me, marvellous ideas all in all!  thumbup

I'd say there's enough material already (name issues still to be clarified though) which can already be added in into the site's time tables with a bit of further elaboration here and there. So I'd say I'll try to work on that while you're away and make it official, okeydokey? - Brilliant work at any rate, Grunok! :D
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« Reply #9 on: 23 February 2007, 08:00:44 »

Thanks!  I used names in Capher's "Wizard of the White Tower" (though I can't claim to have found the time to read it yet) for inspiration.  I was definitely thinking about lots of rarer letters in their names, and yes, I think 'J's would be a good addition to that too. nod  I was thinking their names would be slightly Kuglimz influenced as they sepnt some time up that way.

I was also thinking that the Sophronians should have a habit of naming towns after people.  Obviously not all of them (Hog?! lol) but many of them, I think.  Maybe rather than statues or ballads, the Serphelorians tend to name towns after their famous people. 

I think Brinsley is a masculine name too, and I think you said earlier in my Chrondra thread that Serpheloria could mean something like Ser(around) pheloria(town) or something like that, alluding to how the people are those who are governed from Quesvath's capital.  It thought that was great so I guess I forgot to add it in because it was already obvious in my mind! lol

Quesvath I imagine to be quite a Queen Victoria-esque figure - I might find I write a person entry on her at some point.

Definitely feel free to make adjustments and absolutely to add things in:  I just made this a real "bare bones" history, and it really lacks anything very special - it just ties all the things we have together.  I love the idea of the Mir'Dark being seen as a prophecy that the "King"dom will fail! 

Weak and stupid King - hehe, yeah, that's one of the parts which is still very rough - I would have tidied it up if I had time.  If you find anything else like that do feel free to fix it - there will be quite a bit where I lapse into not really writing, but more just collections of notes.

Well, I'm off in two more days, so I'd better go do some organising - I just found out that my sleeping bag doesn't fit into my pack so I have plenty still to do!  speechless  pet
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« Reply #10 on: 24 February 2007, 04:19:29 »

Yeah, Capher's White Tower story is based on quite a bit of assumptions about the Sophronians, their names and several other things that might not fit anymore. It was written a whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile ago, so there are surely a lot of things that won't hold in it when things will be made more precise now. I will take the Kuglimz in consideration as well when defining the names - will start already this weekend getting things on the site and make nomenclature concepts.

Thanks again for this great concept, Grun, it makes continuing much easier :) - And all the best for your trip in advance, I hope you have a tremendously great time :D  thumbup
« Last Edit: 24 February 2007, 04:23:50 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #11 on: 25 February 2007, 03:30:54 »

0b.S   Santhros Crowned
Those who remain of Serpheloria are tired of constant threat from the kingdoms surrounding them and so they are easily presuaded to join Santharia when they are asked.

This one could need some more elaboration. They are tired of kingdoms trying to take them over so they are easily persuaded to be taken over by a kingdom?!?

I'd suggest to add a process over the preceding century in which it is indicated how this tribe is being convinced to do this. It may be logical to imply some dynastic relationship between noble houses. Maybe the duke/chief/king/leader of the Sophronians got involved in Tharanian politics by gaining titles and status there and thus would at some point see a benefit in bringing his original land under Tharanian protection as well.
That's how England and Scotland slowly merged till a Scot became the joint leader of both England and Scotland (Stuart dynasty) and thus united them.
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« Reply #12 on: 25 February 2007, 17:13:58 »

Yeah, I'll look into this - there are definitely a bunch of such adjustments and additions to be made to explain the developments better and make them more realistic and consistent. Still some work ahead to get down to all the details :)
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« Reply #13 on: 12 April 2007, 05:58:39 »

All I can say is WOW!!  Is the entry finished and when you changed the nomclemture of their names is there a place or entry where it is?  That way when I revise my novel I can fit it in with the new history.
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« Reply #14 on: 13 April 2007, 05:04:04 »

No, there's no entry rewrite currently in progress, Grunok has just defined the historical events a bit more precisely, and we need further elaboration here. I'm going to help a bit and perhaps work on the nomenclature part as well, but I haven't started yet. I've made a program to facilitate name construction, though. But to make progress here we need to define the scheme first (see the Epheronian and Avennorian entries). Then we can progress from there. Should you have certain preferences on what kind of syllables you'd like to use for Sophronian names, feel free to suggest something :)
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