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Author Topic: Duchies of Xaramon (and other stuff)  (Read 14553 times)
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Mina
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« Reply #30 on: 29 April 2007, 22:51:53 »

Well, if I remember correctly, the mountains are occupied by Dwarves.  The surface is officially Human territory, but I don't think they actually have much of a presence there. 
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Curgan
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« Reply #31 on: 30 April 2007, 00:37:04 »

The surface I 'm talking about, since it is painted red. My proposal would be that the human administration of the mountains was separate than the administration of the plains.

PS although I 'd love a multi-race form of goverment like the Helcrani have...
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Mina
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« Reply #32 on: 30 April 2007, 00:54:02 »

Um, what I meant to say was, if the mountains are barely populated by Humans at all (I'm just assuming that's the case, correct me if I'm wrong), I don't really see the need for them to be governed separately. 
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Curgan
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« Reply #33 on: 30 April 2007, 02:51:55 »

oh. OK then
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Rakshiri
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« Reply #34 on: 30 April 2007, 07:25:35 »

wouldn't the dwarves want to have nominal control over the surface of where they are digging/living? I kind would think it important if some humans start to think they can build the latrines above my home. Dwarves might not use the surface but territorial ownership also implies who has rights to use the ressources found there be they above ground (livestock, timber) or below (ores or coal). Things can already start to get ugly if humans want to dig wells to get water for their livestock. The dwarves might want some control how the water flows or is used and who digs holes where.

Just some thoughts.

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Bard Judith
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« Reply #35 on: 30 April 2007, 07:51:52 »

Rakshiri has all the right reasons why, in the peninsula of Ximax, one Thergerim clan (the Xirghurim) DO have their own territories 'from the bottom up'.     As is clearly indicated in the Xirg entry, this clan moves freely among humans and allows an almost-completely open visitation policy for most of their caverns.  They live much closer to the surface, in some cases almost on the surface, and are quite 'cosmopolitan' in their attitudes towards other races.   The mage-orcs visit constantly to discuss magic, Brownies and humans stroll around as 'tourists', and even elves feel free to visit and study in the Xirghurim caverns.

In this one case, the specific mountains marked (Please note - not every mountain in the range!) act as independently-held dwarven territories, from the tarep-tails blooming on the rocks down to the molten lava pools in the depths of the earth - just as the elven woods function as independently-held elven territory, with their own separate government and land-use laws.

Charcoal burners don't set up their burning domes in elven groves and swineherds don't pasture their flocks between the spacious avenues of elven trees.  Neither are human farmers allowed to dig wells (not that the side of a volcanic mountain is a great place for it) on Hlahujit the Flame-Wombed or send their goat flocks up Barol Rotrum to eat the dwarven gardens there. 
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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Mina
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« Reply #36 on: 30 April 2007, 14:21:55 »

So they claim the surface of Hlahujit too?  What about the other mountains they have major settlements in?  Also, what about the Lower Fores?  They are occupied by the Thrumgolz Dwarves. 

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Bard Judith
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« Reply #37 on: 30 April 2007, 16:41:17 »

Sorry, thought I'd clarified that earlier, Mina!

They have ancient treaties dating from the earliest days of Ximax's founding and the cooperation between humans, orcs, and dwarves to rebuild the city, giving them rights to the main clan mountains (individual peaks, not entire ranges!) - as the treaties state, 'head to root (summit to foothills) and all thereunder'.   

Of course, given how deep the dwarves delve, they don't usually come into conflict with humans elsewhere and the 'topdwellers' little scratches' do not affect their tunnels and caverns...    as is the case with the Lower Fores and almost every other area in which humans and dwarves 'co-reside'.  The humans have the topside (whether nominally or not) and the dwarves are perfectly happy with the underground areas (save for a few, probably 'illicit' vegetable patches in secluded mountain gullies, which, because of the general dwarven preoccupation with secrecy and security, most humans would never stumble across.     

I'm not at my home computer or I'd repost a map showing the exact boundaries, but basically:   draw a little purple (or colour of your choice) circle  around each peak where a dwarven cavern is marked, with the tip of the peak in the centre of each circle, and the outside of the circle just touching the bottom of the mountain.  Fill in the mountain with a lighter shade of (purple).   

Again, this only applies to the Xirg clan - see the entry for clarification on why they are so different from other dwarves!   

I'll try to post a graphic tonight.  Thanks for your patience! 

Everything else looks amazing to me...
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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #38 on: 01 May 2007, 04:07:41 »

For easier reference for everyone interested in designing a part of the Santharian map in detail I've uploaded the Santharian map now in the scale of the Manthrian one, the Xaramon map was only a small part of this full map.

Santharian Monster Map (2.5 MB)

You can use crops of this map if you want to specify map details for later drawing.
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Mina
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« Reply #39 on: 09 May 2007, 05:29:53 »

Argh!  The board just ate the post I spent almost an hour typing!  It's too late to do it all over again now.  I'll try again tomorrow. 
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Curgan
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« Reply #40 on: 09 May 2007, 14:49:12 »

That's sad,  angry but don't worry Mina, it's you who's important!

PS Next time try copying the text before posting... bitter experiense speaking
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Mina
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« Reply #41 on: 09 May 2007, 14:57:19 »

I did!  Then I copied something else....

Anyway, I'm typing it up again.  Should be done relatively soon. 
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Mina
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« Reply #42 on: 09 May 2007, 15:43:37 »

The picture: click here
This version contains both political and natural stuff, so it might be a little crowded.  (It's in the RPG portraits folder because it's too large to be attached here). 

Stars represent cities, and triangles represent smaller settlements, ie. towns and villages.  I've labelled most of them anyway. 
Political borders are in red.  The fuzzy brown and yellow borders roughly outline mountains and steppes, respectively.  The steppes are separated into four portions because that's how it looked in the original map. 

And nothing is to scale, because otherwise most of them won't really be visible.  The map marks locations, not size. 

Oh, and name suggestions are very welcome.  I'm horrible with names. 

Peninsula of Cha'dómm (ie. the Ximaxian peninsula)
I extended the Wanderers (specifically Hoa Rusun) towards the coast.  Don't know if that's alright.  The aim was to have only a tiny strip of traversable land where the Land of Withdrawing Waves can be placed (you can see it on the map).  I don't really have a good idea for what the Land of Withdrawing Waves really is though, or where exactly it's located, so all this could be changed.  Feel free to bring up any ideas you might have. 

I've also put a small port by the river, south of Hoa Rusun.  Hopefully that doesn't conflict with the plans for Hoa Rusun.  I'm thinking of moving it closer to the river mouth though.  I only intend for the river to be navigable for a very short distance (it's now slightly over 60km from the river mouth). 

Ximax isn't meant to be very large compared to cities like Marcogg or New Santhala.  Currently I'm thinking it's population could be about 30000-35000, with another several thousand living in towns and villages elsewhere on the peninsula. 

Green
I didn't see a good city location here, but I marked out quite a few towns, mostly on the path between Ximax and Horth.  Don't know if they'll all be on the final map though.  Judging from how Arti drew the Manthria map, there's only space for notable settlements, and surely not all towns are notable. 

One idea mentioned previously is that it's not ruled by a duke, but a collection of lower-ranking nobles (or maybe not even nobles).  The territory could have belonged to a number of Ximaxian satellites in the past, which were later were grouped into one political unit. 

Aqua
Couldn't think of anything for this one.  I put the town there only so it's not completely empty.   buck

Blue
I haven't done much here either.  Caelum I'm thinking could be a fairly large city, maybe with a population of 80000-100000, similar to Marcogg.  Like Marcogg, it's located near the mouth of a pretty large (and probably quite navigable) river, and was the capital of a kngdom in the past. 

Dark Red
I've added a river right in the middle of the duchy.  i'm not sure if that's alright though.  Something like that would probably be notable enough to be on the kingdom map. 

There's a city in the south at the gap between the mountain ranges because I figured that'd be one of the main land routes out of the province; Elsreth is somewhere to the east, just beyond the map.  The rest of the settlements were placed somewhat arbitrarily. 

Yellow
Haven't put anything here except that city on the river that was decided on early in the thread. 

Magenta
I linked up the lakes and provided a route to the sea.  Even without that, the lakes would probably be good for transportation and trade, so I put a pair of medium-sized cities (lets define this as having a population between about 20000 and 50000) there.  The one on the left looks like it might have a better location to me, and thus be somewhat larger, but I'm not sure. 

Bright Red
I hope I managed to get the locations of Chaun and Kerrine right.  The city was placed quite arbitrarily.  I don't see a good reason for it to be there at the moment. 

Duchy of Hypheria (ie. Horth)
The name's from the Centoraurian tribe entry.  The only notable settlement there (for now) is Horth, but there should probably be a few towns and some villages in the area as well.  I think Horth could be the place where several roads converge, due to the Anghorth Alsae mountains getting in the way. 
« Last Edit: 09 May 2007, 16:04:42 by Mina » Logged

Curgan
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« Reply #43 on: 09 May 2007, 16:41:35 »

Very interesting!

Green
Your placing of many minos settlements gave me a plausible cause for it. Since this area was of strategic importance for Centorauria, first because it connected the kingdom with Ximax and afterwards, because it established a corridor of contact, trade and control with it, it is quite logical that the Centoraurians fortified the area building many small forts that eventually became small settlements. I 'd propose you move one triangle to the V the river makes (right above "t: in the lots of towns) and put one more triangle protected by the river at the center of the borders with Ximax. Provided that these settlements stay I 'll ask for the honor of naming them (I have some inspiration).

Aqua
Maybe a fishing village in the middle of the coast

Blue
A lot of minor settlements could be placed and a small city or two.


Dark Red
The river could potentialy be a problem, but it'sa ok with me. Maybe it is not such a deep river after all. As for the southmost city I think it had to be one there.

Duchy of Hypheria
Nah, just  a few villages maybe... as for the placing of Horth you are most probably right

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Mina
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« Reply #44 on: 10 May 2007, 22:32:46 »

A series of forts?  Interesting.  My main concern is that, as you mentioned, it could be used to control Ximax.  That's the main reason I wanted the region to be under significant Ximaxian influence.  Perhaps the forts were originally built and controlled by Ximax?  In any case, I guess most powers in the region would have been quite interested in it, and it might well have changed hands several times in the past. 

I don't know how much space villages usually occupy, but Hypheria is about 60 by 40 strals in size on the map, which could probably hold more than just a few villages. 
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