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Author Topic: Tradewinds Ahoy!  (Read 5120 times)
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Niccoli
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« on: 15 August 2007, 10:29:40 »

This list is the result of the 2 hours + I spent talking with Fox (Dasson) about Sea Travel. We're starting on a sea chart for the eastern coast of southern sarvonia. This would appear to be the Santharian equivelent of trade with the orient. Unfortunatly most of this is conjecture and double guesswork.
M is trade to/from Milkengrad.
C is trade to/from Chylikis
T is trade is trade to/from Thamabalath
the * is the end of the trip where they turn around.
You can assume that whatever winds up being picked up is traded somewhat evenly between all points. Correct me or fill in where I'm wrong.

(M) Milkengrad- Metalwork and wood

(M) Parda- ???

(M*) Chylikis- Goods from Santhala- Via the river from across the Ancytiran Sea Via Elsreth.

(C) Varcopas- Woolens (from the Aj’Nuvic ground)

(C*) Thambalath- Gems (Kimberlite Veins in Norong Soong, among other things)

(T*) Strata- Exotic Goods from Nybelmar and Areullien.
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Fox
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« Reply #1 on: 15 August 2007, 10:40:18 »

As Niccoli has said this is largely unreferenced guess-work just from looking at the map and in-general glances at the locations. Later tonight I plan on going through tribe and city entries to mark down any explicitly stated resources and economy stated therein and other such further research on our parts in order to determine more accurately the way goods are currently traded.

Trade-goods was more the by-product of the conversation that took place, overall, as we were largely considering the currents and winds involved with over-seas travel (since I had been brooding over the types of ships that various tribes/ports would be utilizing, based on historical circumstances. Currents and trade routes naturally came up as a result). As we discussed the currents, naturally the topic of what the ships would be carrying and trading as they reached the ports came up.


I wouldn't say we're actually designing a complete and orderly sea chart for integration (such work would very likely be a team project), but more a very basic reference. I am interested in building some ship designs but require some background reference in that regard before I can accurately develop some.

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Fox
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« Reply #2 on: 15 August 2007, 11:56:58 »

Okay, as I mentioned in my above post... went and looked more in-depth (though still briefly, mainly city entries and some tribe entries) and summarized what I can see from a glance of the various trade goods available from the various ports on the western coast of Santharia. Very brief and crudely constructed list.

Starting north and moving south.


Resources from Northern Santharia (Milkengrad, Thyslan (if it is a port) - some resources may not be available, not all may be available from the same ports):

-Milk and other dairy products from imported Strata Cows and other cattle.
-Goats and pigs
-pets (normal and exotic)
-fish (yellowtail, barsa, etc)
-lumber (pine, cedar, willow, oak, and olive)
-crafted goods from smiths and artisans (Erpheronian weapons)
-raw materials and metals (iron, copper, silver, gold)
-Tradestuffs from further north and east (wine, alchemical ingredients, pocketwatches, Erpheronian kroulvards meat, Stormcloak goods, goods from Akdor, Cyhalloi, north Sarvonia, uruyant from Warnaka Mountains, other various minerals (diamond, ithildin, aurium, vernik, iron, coal, dasthomm, oontrom, hotron, quartz, emeraude, tin, silver, herne))
-Olives, grain, cotton, fruits, cloth and pottery from Efirhal.


Resources from Xaramon:

-Magical potions and other magical and alchemical goods from Ximax
-crops
-lumber, arv, and jewels from Vontron
-wine (specifically Cheniar), horses, and some semi-precious stones from Horth


Resources from the Gulf of Maraya (Chylikis, Lorehaven, Elving - some resources may not be available, not all may be available from the same ports):

-Iron Ore
-Limestone
-Elvish Craftsmanship
-Marble
-Coastal Sandstone used for Glass and Enammel
-Gold and other minerals (emeralds, quartz, malacite, clay from Aieryn)
-Elving is a Large Trade Center (exotic goods from other locations available)
-fish and oysters from Tarannoar
-crops from Elverground, goods from Santhala and tradestuff coming from the eastern side of Santharia
-Tradestuffs from Nybelmar (?).


Resources from around the Rahaz'Dath Ports (Strata, Thalambath, Varcopas, Dasai - some resources may not be available, not all may be available from the same ports):

-Vhin Tobacco
-Ouan Pottery
-Wine
-Uderza Export Tiles
-Goods from Shan'Thai, Shan'Zarathan (jakesha fish) and Aeruillin
-Goods from Western Shores to Eastern (above location goods headed to the eastern coast lines)
-Goods from Eastern Shores (Stormcloaks) to Western (goods from Quios, Cyhalloi, Manthria, etc, headed south to Strata and then up the western coast)
-Exotic Animals and possibly Food from Scattersand Shoals (and recent trade of sawis sheep to the Shoals)
-Shendar Silk
-Shendar Salt
-Possible Jewels, minerals (silver, mithrilan, udzerene, brimstone, burning stones), and green sand found in the desert
-Mil'no plant
-in'cent and mh'yrre spices,
-Mi'cam
-Altling Cactus
-From Varcopas primarily: fine swords and daggers (also less quality versions in Thalambath) and musical instruments (mil'no flute), perhaps books and pottery (less quality than Uderza) too.
-Milk and other dairy products from Strata Cows.
-Tradestuffs from Nybelmar.

(following goods compiled by Talia in her Shendar/Strata goods list in the Team Project forum, adding them here)
-Double Kiilj (rare)
-Whips
-Slings
-Dragon Eggs
-Granite
-Paper (plain and decorated)
-Brown kara, crocodile, and aka'pi hide
-Aka'pi wool (and carpets made from such)
-Chi'it/Altho Grass Mats
-Brinn'si
-Blue arryi liquid
-Prickling pango cactus
-Waterstar (and Starberry Wine - rare)
-Medicine (loriv, yarle, false heart)
« Last Edit: 15 August 2007, 12:50:41 by Fox » Logged
xerampelinae deicida
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« Reply #3 on: 15 August 2007, 13:51:19 »

Parda has a major navel port so its major imports would be what it needs to build ships mostly wood and iron from the Zeiphyrian Forests as well as some metal from Kor Donion
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Mina
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« Reply #4 on: 15 August 2007, 17:07:06 »

Don't you mean the western coast?  Milkengrad and Parda are in the west, and I'm fairly sure Varcopas and Thalambath are too.  Anyway, I just wanted to mention that Caelum is currently defined as a fairly important port too, as well as (to a lesser extent) a couple of cities by the Aerelian Lakes, if no one objects to having a river flowing through or around the Vontron (Bard Judith and Curgan seemed fine with it when I first suggested it).

Quote
-Magical potions and other magical and alchemical goods from Ximax
Hmm...I've never really associated Ximax with alchemy.  It's possible, I suppose, though I'd rather they not be Ximax's main exports.  I think I'd prefer that to be something other than magical goods; magical things are supposed to be rare after all.  Maybe books, or even certain types of stones or minerals (lots of mountains there...)?  And perhaps some Zirghurim goods too. 

Quote
-lumber, arv, and jewels from Vontron
Getting lumber from an Elven forest?  I think that's probably not a very good idea.  Of course, things might be different if there is something about Vontron lumber that makes them desirable and a deal of some sort could be reached with the Elves. 
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« Reply #5 on: 15 August 2007, 17:22:15 »

Don't you mean the western coast?  Milkengrad and Parda are in the west, and I'm fairly sure Varcopas and Thalambath are too.  Anyway, I just wanted to mention that Caelum is currently defined as a fairly important port too, as well as (to a lesser extent) a couple of cities by the Aerelian Lakes, if no one objects to having a river flowing through or around the Vontron (Bard Judith and Curgan seemed fine with it when I first suggested it).

It's western. If 'eastern' pops up then it's probably just a typo.

Quote
Hmm...I've never really associated Ximax with alchemy.  It's possible, I suppose, though I'd rather they not be Ximax's main exports.  I think I'd prefer that to be something other than magical goods; magical things are supposed to be rare after all.  Maybe books, or even certain types of stones or minerals (lots of mountains there...)?  And perhaps some Zirghurim goods too.

Well as I said, this is a summary of what's listed in the entries themselves. The alchemical stuff is mentioned in the Ximax entry. That being said--reagents are something likely to be useful for both magic and alchemy. Sulfur for instance is of use for fire magi as well as alchemists. Magic and alchemy often go hand in hand at times.
 
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Getting lumber from an Elven forest?  I think that's probably not a very good idea.  Of course, things might be different if there is something about Vontron lumber that makes them desirable and a deal of some sort could be reached with the Elves.

It's listed as a resource and thus I treated it as something they'd be trading. Though you're right, there's no explicit statement that they trade the lumber itself.
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Mina
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« Reply #6 on: 15 August 2007, 17:32:57 »

Quote
Well as I said, this is a summary of what's listed in the entries themselves.

Ah, okay.  I guess I didn't read it carefully enough. 

Quote
The alchemical stuff is mentioned in the Ximax entry. That being said--reagents are something likely to be useful for both magic and alchemy. Sulfur for instance is of use for fire magi as well as alchemists. Magic and alchemy often go hand in hand at times.
That's true.  And while alchemy isn't magic, I guesss it's quite possible certain schools of alchemy would incorporate Ximaxian principles. 
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Fox
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« Reply #7 on: 15 August 2007, 17:39:15 »

nm I was wrong, alchemical stuff wasn't mentioned in the Ximax entry. <.< But I still believe that reagents used in spells are also common alchemical supplies as well, so Ximax would provide both.
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Niccoli
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« Reply #8 on: 15 August 2007, 20:56:12 »

Right so, I'll patch this up. I personally have no idea as to where it belongs. I expected the list to seem much longer.
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« Reply #9 on: 16 August 2007, 03:05:03 »

Seems that the initial discussion on various sea-related things has led you to one of our main - still unresolved - issues: Santharian Resources. This is really something major, and if the problem isn't approached very systematically I can warn you in advance that this will go nowhere. If work in this regard doesn't accomplish anything integrateable, it will remain a failed attempt.

Therefore, if we want to succeed with it, the issue needs to be addressed so that it actually can integrateable produce results.

The list that has been collated above is a good start, but it won't help in the long run if we don't categorize things better.

For example we could take the Sarvonian maps and mark the Minerals on it with certain colours. That map would show only minerals - where they are, which kind of they are and how much there is approximately (a lot, few, just a little etc.). It would be possible to put up such a mineral map somewhere in the map section. If you'd search for a specific mineral map you'd find it.

We could continue with Wood - what kinds (soft, hard etc.), how much, where etc., then continue with other categories (beasts, plants, spices, whatever). Somehow we need to get in a system if we want to do it properly.
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Fox
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« Reply #10 on: 16 August 2007, 05:54:10 »

For example we could take the Sarvonian maps and mark the Minerals on it with certain colours. That map would show only minerals - where they are, which kind of they are and how much there is approximately (a lot, few, just a little etc.). It would be possible to put up such a mineral map somewhere in the map section. If you'd search for a specific mineral map you'd find it.

We could continue with Wood - what kinds (soft, hard etc.), how much, where etc., then continue with other categories (beasts, plants, spices, whatever). Somehow we need to get in a system if we want to do it properly.

Hmm. I could try marking the maps in places where things are already explicitly stated, if you'd like. I could then upload the PSD file on the project forum so that it can be constantly upgraded as more information becomes available in that resource regard.

Unless you don't think we have enough information yet.


I'll take a look over at the project forum resource area and see where I can help out there.

« Last Edit: 16 August 2007, 06:23:24 by Fox » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: 16 August 2007, 06:20:08 »

Can you save Photoshop layers (PSD)? Here is a file of the Santharian map with Photoshop layers. The names are invisible at this map (but you can display them if you want), which makes it easier to mark something, providing you use a new layer.

And whether we don't have "enough" information yet on minerals is not really of relevance - what is there needs to be marked somehow, so that we get an overview. Then we will see what is still missing, where we have space left and what makes sense to add. A start needs to be made.
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Fox
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« Reply #12 on: 16 August 2007, 06:23:12 »

Yep I can--thanks for that! I'll see what I can do. :)
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Niccoli
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« Reply #13 on: 16 August 2007, 09:49:58 »

@ artimidor

I think wood and then metals and gems would be a better course of action, because neither of them move, and both are more likely to be moved by sea than by land (livestock don't carry well)

I can do photoshop as well, but I can't draw anything. I will however take the file wilth me and print it off.
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« Reply #14 on: 16 August 2007, 13:29:00 »

@ artimidor

I think wood and then metals and gems would be a better course of action, because neither of them move, and both are more likely to be moved by sea than by land (livestock don't carry well)

I don't think he was suggesting any specific order-to-be-done, Nicc. I'm probably going to be doing minerals and lumber first in any case due to their being easier to find information on.

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